Social Question

thekoukoureport's avatar

Isn't it time Democrats stop whining?

Asked by thekoukoureport (4023points) September 28th, 2010

Joe Biden retracted that statement but shouldn’t we? The bills that have been enacted over these last 18 months are historic. Shouldn’t we be out there touting the positives of what has happened?

Healthare for all
Millions of private sector jobs returning
Financial regulatory protection for consumers
Extended Unemployment benefits
Business tax cuts
Middle class tax cuts
Cash for Clunkers
Energy tax credits

Don’t know why the minority got to draw the narrative, but can the truth can set them free?

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40 Answers

Cruiser's avatar

As good as each program you listed is on it’s own merits, it is the sum of them that is why our national debt is greater than ever. You can’t implement all these wonderful things without a realistic way to pay for them. This is nothing to crow about as this administration has not yet presented a clear plan on how we are to pay for all this without cutting spending, without cutting programs and without increasing taxes. These are all talking points that have accomplished a big net zero from an administration that now is essentially gutted at this critical stage of the game. Time to hit the reset button and strive to as you say stop the whining and get a bi-partisan government that can provide real leadership to do something constructive about this mess we have created.

filmfann's avatar

With all the good things that have happened in this country in the last 2 years, you would think the Dems would find a spine to stand up straight.
If we lose this election, it is not because of what we have done. It will be because we couldn’t get people to realize how far we have come.

syz's avatar

Politics in this country is so polarized, and I am so disgusted by it, that I have ceased to be surprised by the ineffectiveness and sheer stupidity of the behavior of politicians.

thekoukoureport's avatar

We lower spending as we diisengage in wars.
We lower spending by enacting healthcare for all.
We already begun working on ways of cutting the budget.
We have a bi-partisan committee working on the government spending.
President Obama Introduced a bill that would have allowed the president A line item veto alternative. Which would allow for spending controls.
We increase our tax base by setting the tax rate back to the clinton era for the wealthiest 2%. An increase of 4% or 4cents on the dollar.

marinelife's avatar

Once again the Democrats are letting the Republicans define the debate—not favorably either!

What you say is true, A small business bill was signed into law just yesterday that will have very positive effects.

Seek's avatar

I’m not a Democrat, but I am a liberal.

Healthare for all – This is a farce. It’s still “healthcare for all who can afford it”. The bill that was passed merely puts more power into the hands of insurance companies, who are still unregulated, and penalizes the poor who can’t afford the premiums.
Millions of private sector jobs returning Uh, where? Yes, I understand it’s going to take time, but we haven’t even seen two straight months with more than a few thousand new jobs, much less millions.
Financial regulatory protection for consumers TBH, I have no idea what that statement is supposed to imply
Extended Unemployment benefits if you qualify for them and your former employer isn’t a lying dirtbag.
Business tax cuts Don’t know anything about that.
Middle class tax cuts Where?
Cash for Clunkers Tax break for the wealthy. Literally all this did was destroy a lot of good-condition used cars that could have been scrapped for parts.
Energy tax credits My power bill just went up. It’s going to go up again.

Sorry, I don’t buy it. I think the democrats are letting the minority republicans push them around. And it’s Obama’s own damn fault, with all his talks of “bipartisan blah blah blah”. The republicans couldn’t give a fiddler’s fart about being bipartisan.

tedd's avatar

healthcare – its a step in the right direction, and its not more money into the hands of insurance companies, at least not directly. That money is going to people who couldn’t afford ANY insurance before. Also they can’t dick people out of their insurance for no reason anymore. Its MUCH more regulated than it was. Can easily agree that much more is needed, but its the biggest improvement to the system in nearly 50 years.

Millions of jobs – You may remember that when Obama took office the economy was losing around 750 thousand jobs a month. Granted we’re only gaining tens of thousands a month now, but when you include the negative per month he had to counter-act, i’d say that’s millions of jobs. And we had SIX straight months of tens of thousands of jobs added btw. Then one of loss, then two more of added.

Extended benefits – ok granted you have to qualify, by having paid into unemployment. But if you did you should be getting them.

Business tax cuts and tax cuts for the middle class – See Stimulus bill, it was ⅓ tax cuts.

Cash for clunkers – this spurred the automotive industry and kept hundreds of thousands of people working. The aspect of destroying the clunker cars was an addition of environmentalists who didn’t want crappy gas mileage cars on the roads. And more over, they WERE scrapped for parts by whatever dealership got them.

Energy tax credits – Unfortunately were not for the general public, they were for companies that invest in and work in alternative energy sources.

You are right about Obama playing too much into trying to be bipartisan. They should’ve given up on that midway through the healthcare debate and that bill would be much better today.

Seek's avatar


What help is there for the currently uninsured? because I haven’t seen any. The Government health insurance pool for those with pre-existing conditions costs $5,000 a year in premiums alone. Copayments, prescriptions, and out of pocket can cost up to $6,000 a year. That’s more than half my yearly income.

No, we’re not gaining millions of jobs. All the jobs previously lost are still lost. We’re only inching back on jobs. Yes, it’s progress, but it’s not “millions of jobs created”.

Have you ever filed for unemployment benefits? I know in my state it’s pretty damn cutthroat. My husband was approved, then the employer appealed. He was denied. He appealed and was approved. Then the employer appealed and he was denied. Apparently, the employer gets more appeals than the employee, and guess who is supposed to pay back six months of unemployment?

Not before the engines were destroyed. Just sayin’.

Aaand, another tax break for big business and fuck the little guy.

tedd's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr There’s new high risk pools, and enlargements of those that already existed. And there’s rules about who they are allowed to deny coverage too now. Now granted we’d be way better off if they just made a public option… but the alternative to what Obama and Dems accomplished is nothing. Nothing at all. No movement towards getting the public option or regulating insurance companies, etc.

And frankly I think that turning our jobs from negative 750,000 per month to +20,000–60,000 is a pretty damn good accomplishment.

And I’ve not filed for unemployment but I can understand how difficult it is. Thats a state by state thing too though. And its not like he’s not trying. He could’ve just not extended them at all as Republicans wanted to do, and you wouldn’t even have the option of appealing because they wouldn’t be there period.

Not to mention all the things we’re not covering. 150,000 front line troops in Iraq has become 50,000 support troops. We’ve got a lot more troops in Afghanistan where they should’ve been in the first place, and they have a for sure removal date. He saved GM and with it 2–3 hundred thousand jobs and an American icon (not to mention it looks like its going to make us some money). He expanded government student loans by more than ever and cut out banks as middle men to distribute the money… lord knows I wish that had been done before I went to school.

I think what Obama and everyone else is trying to say is this…. YES things are not golden and shiny. We’re not riding unicorns to our jobs at the ice cream factory where we make 150k a year. BUT, look at the alternative…. Republicans want to remove every bit of progress we’ve made, and then take us back even further. Do you want to continue slowly moving forward (painfully slow as it might be), or do you want to revert back into even worse territory?

Seek's avatar

There’s new high risk pools, and enlargements of those that already existed. I’ve already addressed that. They are still prohibitively expensive. There is no help for people who cannot afford $5,000 a year in premiums, and $6,000 a year in out of pocket costs. Instead, there will be a tax penalty for them. Oh, yeah, there might be a waiver for that. Maybe. If you qualify.

Do you want to continue slowly moving forward (painfully slow as it might be), or do you want to revert back into even worse territory?

You are assuming those are my only two options. No, I have a third. I can be as goddamn pissed off as I please that nothing useful is happening, that the government is still pandering to big business, and that anyone that makes less than $50,000 a year in this country is being completely ignored. Maybe, like Scrooge said, we’ll all just die off and decrease the surplus population.

wundayatta's avatar

The Republicans seem to be much better at the sound-bite game than the Dems. This has been the case for years. They are just better snipers and dirty fighters than Democrats are.

It goes along with the kind of character you need to have to be a Republican—you have to blind yourself to the plight of millions of people in this nation. You say you believe that trickle down economics and tax cuts and program cuts will end up helping these people. They believe it, but deep in their hearts, perhaps they know they are lying. The gap between the rich and the poor has grown even larger—to the largest it has ever been in this country.

Theirs is the party of “what’s in it for me?” They don’t believe in cooperation or “one for all and all for one.” They think competition will solve all problems, and who cares about those who have no education nor any resources with which to compete. Horatio Alger created the myth of the American Dream, and Republicans believe it. But it simply isn’t true. Rags to riches is very, very rare.

tedd's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Well I’m sorry you feel that way, but I COMPLETELY disagree.

Seek's avatar

Well, that’s the beauty of facts – they don’t care if you disagree with them.

jlm11f's avatar

I think “facts” on either side of the arguments being made on this thread should be supported by credible links.

Seek's avatar

And you can look at page 93 of this to see where those who can’t afford coverage will be penalized through the IRS.

ucme's avatar

I heard those donkeys are more likely to brae!! A whining donkey would just make an ass of itself i’m sure :¬)

thekoukoureport's avatar

Is everything perfect? NO! Are we moving towards helping the people? YES! Would the alternative been better (McCain Palin) NO! We had to survive a worldwide econimic crash to fixed in less than two years? Thats the democrats fault? We are moving in the right direction. It certainly better than playing the fiddle whille Rome burns.

Credible links in this discussion are subjective.

If you cannot afford healthcare you can enroll in the medicaid program and your children can enroll in CHIP. It states that at the bottom of pg 92.

Seek's avatar

They are not subjective at all. They are the government website, and the text of the enacted law. How could that possibly be subjective?

You can apply for medicaid, yes. Will you be approved? Not if you make more than the limit.

Which for, say, me, with a family of three is $15,410. Damn. My husband’s bringing in a little more than that. I qualify for food stamps, though. Too bad I can’t pay for gallbladder surgery or asthma medication with food stamps.

thekoukoureport's avatar

I was under the impression that they where going to expand the medicaid eligibility requirements when this plan goes into full effect so that you would only have to pay a share. According to what you make not just free medicaid.

Sorry @Seek_Kolinahr the subjective comment was in answer to @PnL who wanted credible links and both sides of these arguments can point to links as credible while discrediting the other cause there are liars there are damn liars and then there are statistics.

Seek's avatar

There is a program called “Medicaid for the Medically Needy” in which one is given a certain amount they must pay in medical bills before Medicaid kicks in. You must re-qualify for this every month. I’m pretty sure I’m still enrolled – I got a letter about it once. They told me my qualifying payment was (I think) $187.

Now, I’ve yet to find a doctor or a hospital that participates in the Medically Needy program (it’s a separate animal from Medicaid, and it’s nearly impossible to find medicaid doctors around here anyway), but assuming I did, here’s how it would work:

I see a doctor. I have to pay up-front, so I’m going to be damn sure I actually need to see the doc before I go. Already I’m risking my health by waiting. I pay the doctor, I go pay full price for whatever tests and prescriptions I’m ordered, assuming I can afford to do so. Then, I send copies of those bills to Medicaid. If they decide those bills were medically necessary, they’ll count them toward the monthly “share”, and I’ll be covered with full Medicaid for the rest of the month – so, if I happen to get the Plague in the next two weeks, we’re totally covered. The first of the month, slate’s wiped clean, and I’m back to a $187 minimum share.

$187 is just about what my power bill costs during the summer. It’s almost as much as my car payment. It’s less than half of my car insurance premium. So, no, I still haven’t gone to the doctor.

jlm11f's avatar

@thekoukoureport Credible links are in itself not subjective, thus making them credible. They would be from nonpartisan news sources, government websites that outline bills in question, etc. Instead of blogs, opinion-ed articles, anything related to fox news etc.

thekoukoureport's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr I feel your pain I was uninsured and had to go to the emergency room and now I am on the hook for 28K. This program would have prevented it for me. If you are 26 yrs and younger you can stay on your parents family plan, you can no longer be turned down for a preexisting condition and soo many more. Isn’t that a step in the right direction? Can’t you see a government at least beginning to address the plight of the average American?
Please say yes and vote;)

I’m sorry @PnL is a great resource, but the other side has labeled it propoganda. so is the GAO who say the Healthcare will save the government money!

Seek's avatar


Even Iraq has a national healthcare system, or at least a constitutional clause establishing one. I refuse to be satisfied with mediocrity, especially when I and so many others are living with a ticking time bomb inside our bodies. What I foresee for this system is something much like our auto insurance system – where everyone is literally forced to pay whatever the company demands, and hire lawyers in any effort to gain the benefits for which they are paying.

thekoukoureport's avatar

Soo repeal and replace? leave it alone just because it was not the panacea! There is at least a framework to begin making the meaningful changes that you wish for!

And a president that is not ignoring his word, you may not like some of the steps but at least they are beginning to change in the right direction. If we can win an even larger majority, it would send that clear message thats needed here that this administration is peaking for we the people!

Two years to get out of the worst econimic disaster of my lifetime. (45) having to overcome constant filibustering on every piece of legislation, building a bi partisan coalition to pass legislation that the last EIGHT presidencies have triedd to do.
It was a bill written “by the people”, (house and senate) “for the people’s” benefit, by the will “of the people” (the election of President Obama) Yup sounds Constitutional to me.

Seek's avatar

Don’t you live in Greece?

thekoukoureport's avatar

no just greek desent
First and formost though I am an American, a Vetran, and a passionate observer of this country and what it stands for. Establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, promote the general welfare at hand, these are all steps that have been ignored for so long that it has taken a constitutional professor to turn it in the right direction. If we let this slip away the people will not get this chance again in my lifetime.

Nice memory though particularly from a small off handed comment posted weeks ago.

JustmeAman's avatar

Well yes Dems should quit whining as well as Reps. It is really sad that our country is so divided and the sad thing is it works for those who are in control of the money. This economy has no place to go but to collapse and a new one begin which is what is wanted. We will start to hear about a one world order more and more and a one world economy.

thekoukoureport's avatar

We already have a world order… The United Nations
We already have a world economy.. The G12

AND we are finally getting an administration that is doing business for the people!

JustmeAman's avatar

Just keep watching.

thekoukoureport's avatar

Cant watch anymore, this election is wayyy to important!
If it turns towrds fundamentalism it wont be because I didn’t stand up and say something.
Believe it or not standing up for the government that has given each and every one of us so much is looked upon with contempt.
Something is very wrong here and we need to open some eyes.

IchtheosaurusRex's avatar

Whining? I sort of get what Biden is talking about, but no, we should not stop expressing our dissenting views just because there’s an election on. A good deal of ire from the left is directed at folks who deserve it, e.g., Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman, who have repeatedly joined with Republicans in obstructing legislation important to us.

Obama deserves some slack. But nobody deserves blind adulation.

JustmeAman's avatar


The problem is so deep not sure it can be solved. Expressing views is one thing but to keep talking down the Reps or the Dems is damaging and should be avoided.

thekoukoureport's avatar

We should be talking about the positives of what this administration has been able to accomplish along with the Democratic House and Senate to form “supermajorities” to enact historic legislatiion for the people. Not allowing the propoganda from the right sway so many into thinking that we would be better off back where we came!

18 months…. I’ve lived in my house for 8 years and still have not fixed everything. The house was sound when I bought it also.

Kraigmo's avatar

Where’s the health care? I don’t see it. We had a chance to create socialized medicine which would have saved this nation billions of dollars, but Blue Dog Democrats and their Republican buddies basically destroyed that.

Why is Obama defending Bush’s national security policies except for a few extreme cases? The entire Bush Doctrine should be condemned and never allowed to happen again.

But Obama is actually defending most of the Bush Doctrine in court. Obama is waving the flag of the “national security” or “state secrets” people. To hell with that!

Obama is certainly better than John McCain, but why are we people so stupid that we cannot pick people who ALWAYS defend the People. Like Dennis Kucinich.

Why does Obama kiss Republican ass SO MUCH, when he doesn’t have to? (I realize he has to compromise to get things done… but he has gone hogwild in his constant use of the court to defend Bush policies).

And where’s the financial regulation? Wall Street got everything they wanted, almost. They OWN Obama, just like they owned Bush. Basically the only banking policy of Obama’s to affect me, have actually hurt me. I no longer can buy disposable credit cards that can be used to purchase cheap medicine at Indian pharmacies. Gee, thanks for taking what health care I had… AWAY from me, Democrats. And the Republicans are even worse of course

iamthemob's avatar

everyone should stop whining and start working.

thekoukoureport's avatar

@Kraigmo Thanks for stating your position. This administration is working during one of the most divided times in our history. The fact that they were able to accomplish anything is a miracle. Particularly due to the oppositions staunch stance on STOPPING this government in it’s tracks and hoping for failure.
You speak to his negotiating style, or lack thereof, I can see how you could feel that way. I view it differently, If he views himself as a uniter, someone who doesn’t want to play politics as usual he will:
a) Make republican concessions immediately in the hopes that compromise should be forth coming (always failed btw)
b) Meet with republican house and senate leadership in a public forum to discuss his healthcare propsosals.

What did this accomplish for me? It peeled back another layer and exposed the republican leadership for what it truly is CLUELESS!. His style should have brought us together while exposing a lunatic fringe and it has. Unfortunately the media loved the fringe during the slowwwww news cycle and gave creedence to the spin that they spewed forth without demanding proof. Death panels and many more became daily fodder for a rabid media looking to fill a 24 hour news cycle.

I don’t know your present financial or insurance situation but I can asssure you that This administration has enacted policy that will protect you in the future and allow you to continue your “pursuit of happiness”. I know I cannot say the same for the other party.

So if we allow the other party to gain control, if we do not mobilize and get out the vote what do you think this republic will become?

So @iamthemob is right.
Corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars hoping that this freeze will help them win back the house and senate andbring back the happy times. Where their wealth grew at staggering purportions while the rest of us are heading to the line that says “Please sir can I have some more?”(Oliver Twist)
If we the people say yes! This is the right path, We’re going the right way! Then the corporations will do what they always have done when the people have won; Adapt, Overcome, and Prosper. But this time “We the people” will have a better general welfare at hand.

Seek's avatar

@thekoukoureport We already knew the Republicans were clueless. Learned that a long time ago.

We don’t need to thank the government for a slap in the face, just because it wasn’t a kick in the balls.

Kraigmo's avatar

@thekoukoureport I can’t disagree with anything you said there. I agree with all of it. But it does not lead me to the conclusion to support Democrats wholeheartedly. I do support them halfheartedly. But like your Question stated, the Republicans set the Narrative.

This has been the case all my life: The Republicans set the Narrative and the Democrats walk around with their tails between their legs saying “I’m tough on crime and pro-family, too!”

And it will always be the case until American Democrats start acting like European Liberals… who can REALLY get some good things accomplished.

So far the healthcare bill is a joke. In New Jersey, where its already being set up… the minimum monthly payment for low income people into the health pool is $295 a month.

$295 a month!!! THAT is the the new “low tier, government funded” policy! If other states are as egregious as New Jersey in how they implement this plan… then we’re all gonna be even worse off than we were before.

And the Cash for Clunkers did nothing for poor people. It just helped middle class people go further into debt by encouraging them to buy new cars.

I am of the strong opinion that the Democratic Party, is overall, a complete failure. Their leadership and rank ‘n’ file agree blindly follow the Republican Narrative all their political lives, except on a few shining occasions that happen perhaps once every few years.

When the day comes when Democrats do not have to “prove” how “tough” they can be in issues of crime, security, war, and family decency; while at the same time disciplining their Blue Dog members into submission into European style social medicine…. that’s the day I’ll start praising them wholeheartedly.

I do realize that if Republicans controlled Congress….. the economy would have tanked by now because they would have cut extended unemployment benefits far before the jobs come back. Because the federal GOP is corrupt and insane.

Seek's avatar

@Kraigmo It’s $395 in my state, for someone under 34. $435 for my husband, who’s 40.

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