Do you think bisexuality exists?

Yes it exist because there are people who are sexually attracted to both genders.

It does exist. I have friends that are bisexual, but in my time of watching them, they do show more interest in one gender more than the other. Even if they seem to like both.

I kind of have two definitions of bisexuality. One is purely sexual (physically attracted to both genders, might engage in sexual activity with either gender, but only interested in relationships with one or the other); and one is more all-encompassing (could easily have a relationship with someone of either gender). I know people like both of my descriptions, and they seem to manage it just fine.

I don’t know how you could ever accurately measure a true 50/50 split for gender preference, and I don’t think it works that way anyhow. I think people in the latter category disregard gender altogether, and just see a person they’re interested in.

Edit: Also, I tend to agree with you that it’s the norm. If we weren’t conditioned by society, I think we’d all be much more open to same-gender sexual experiences.

Yes it exists and not as sure as you that it is the “norm” as I only know of a few true practicing bisexuals.

Works for me.

@Cruiser

Interesting – what do you consider a “true practicing bisexual”?

@syz

I’m assuming that you identify as bisexual? If so, how/why?

People that engage in regular or semi-regular bi-sexual activity and are not just experimenting or testing the waters if you will. I also know of a few people I call “bi-curious”

@Cruiser

I don’t know…doesn’t that necessitate that someone who would be considered truly bisexual never really settle down with one person? If you end up in a marriage of some sort, in essence in every case you’ve decided you’re done testing the waters….

My partner identifies as lesbian. She would not consider a relationship with a male, although she certainly appreciates a good looking male, and occasionally admits to casual lust (many people seem to think that “lesbian” means that men are considered invisible or disgusting. Not true.) I identify as bisexual. I’ve been in a long term relationship with a man (married), and I’m currently in a long time relationship with a woman (not able to be married). The current relationship is richer and deeper than any I’ve ever been in, and I will not even begin to make a guess as to whether that is due to her gender or her self. (Ok, upon reflection, I will make a guess. It’s got to be who she is, not what her sex chromosomes consist of.)

Amazingly enough, I still run in to people who have some bizarre, twisted belief that “bisexual” means that you have to be dating a representative of both sexes concurrently, as if there is some deficit to be filled. Or that bisexual = slut. Or that you can’t make up your mind what sex to be with.

For me, bisexual means that my attraction for someone is not based on what’s in their pants. I’m sure plenty of people disagree, but it seems like an eminently logical approach.

I think we have a spectrum of sexuality, from purely heterosexual through varying degrees of bisexuality to purely homosexual, and each of us has our place on it.

Amazingly enough, I still run in to people who have some bizarre, twisted belief that “bisexual” means that you have to be dating a representative of both sexes concurrently, as if there is some deficit to be filled.

I think this is a common assumption – the “greedy” stereotype.

Sure it exists, but it’s not the norm.

The norm is being straight, because those are the people that have loads of babies.

Yes, I believe it exists. People I know who are bisexual say their harshest critics are in the gay community. I find that dissapointing.

Yes I believe that it exists, but you couldn’t prove it by me.
I believe all of you who say that you are bisexual, and I think @syz explained it very nicely.
I learn so much from all of you! Thanks!

@Zyx

How does reproduction make “straight” the norm, as opposed to bisexuality. (how are you defining bisexuality here, too).

True bisexuality exists and is very common, particularly among nematodes.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3280487

I don’t see why it doesn’t exist, there are obviously people that are attracted to both male and female. I define bisexual as being attracted to and having sex with both male and female. It’s not different from being attracted to only male, or only female.

Yes it exists. I identify as bisexual though I hate labeling such things. I’ve been sexually involved with both men and women. I have not been romantically involved with a woman because I have not fallen in love with such a person; however, the idea was always open if the right person came along. Currently I am involved in a monogamous relationship with a man. If it doesn’t work with him then I will once again be open to either sex.

Are relationships a requirement for bisexuality? Is sexual contact even a requirement?

As far as the Kinsey studies go, if i recall correctly, he observed true bisexuality (as in equal attraction to either gender) only very few in women, with men always skewing more towards one gender or the other, even if by little. But yeah, it’s rare for people to be 100% hetero or 100% gay.

I would say a person is just bi-curious if they haven’t been involved with a person of the same sex in a sexual and/or romantic sense. Still, the labels don’t mean much to me. I fall for the person regardless of the gender they identify with.

So…are we saying that sexuality is more about the act or the desire?

@iamthemob I’d say it’s about the attraction. One might be attracted to someone while not desiring to be…

I vote YES!
It exists since there are people who are attracted to both genders.

@Thammuz

I’m in the desire/attraction camp myself. I don’t really see the necessity to follow through on a sexual desire in order to be bisexual.

Particularly, if someone is generally pretty heterosexual, same-sex desire would generally be ignored, repressed, etc., considering that the taboo associated with following through in a lot of cases would upset their lives too much.

Yes, it absolutely exists. I tend to be a little bit more “strict” in my definition of bisexual, in that I believe you should probably only use that label if you have the capacity to fall in love with either gender. Technically I suppose if you are sexually attracted to men and women you are probably bisexual, but I have just always seen it as deeper than sexual attraction, personally.

@TheOnlyNeffie

I see your point…I just don’t know about bringing love into the equation. Having the capacity to love isn’t really tested until you meet the right person at the right time. I think it’s difficult to test that out on both men and women in the course of a lifetime. Also, I don’t know if it’s fair (although you yourself are profoundly fair ;-)) to use that as a gauge if it’s not the gauge we’re going to apply to heterosexuality and homosexuality.

@iamthemob I kind of do use it as the gauge. If a person is having sex in a heterosexual relationship, but only has the capacity to fall in love in a homosexual relationship – would you consider that person heterosexual? I would be more inclined to consider that fooling yourself.. or attempting to fool everyone else. Or vice versa (though I suspect that would be a less likely scenario, I imagine it could and has happened.)
The same thing applies to bisexuality in my eyes. Many times it falls into this sort of subcategory where a person is willing to have sex with both men and women, but maybe only to appear more attractive to their actual preferred partner.
I know that the literal term is directly related to sexual preference, but in my eyes the capacity for love speaks volumes in comparison to who you are interested (or willing) to lay down in bed with.

@TheOnlyNeffie

As to your first example – if the person is sexually attracted in the heterosexual context, but not in the homosexual one – yes, I would consider the person heterosexual.

Sexuality isn’t dependent on love at all. People’s most profound relationships may often be with people that they aren’t attracted to in any sense (regardless of their sexuality). Even if we specifically refer to romantic love, romance may not even require physical contact.

Obviously, it exists.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

Obviously how? Aren’t bisexuals just experimenting until they settle on one gender or the other? (this is obviously not what I believe).

@iamthemob I know that’s not what you believe, and all of your questions I’ve been getting from people since I was 12 so they’re pretty cliche. Some people who identify as bisexual are experimenting, as are some people identify as any other sexuality. Sexuality, to me, is fluid and can change over one’s lifetime. A relationship/settlement isn’t necessary for one to know they’re bi.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

I think that people tend to consider you as becoming exclusively one side or the other after a certain point because sexuality is only visible to others through these relationships, for the most part. They don’t know what’s going on in your head (or your pants).

Do people think that sexuality is dependent upon sexual experience? To me, it seems to be clearly about desire.

Of course, people see me with Alex and the kids and assume I’m straight – that’s just the default, heteronormatively speaking and I don’t fault them for it, if they haven’t been made aware that to make assumptions is not the best idea. Whoever the partner at the time is, that’s what you’re made to be, by others because people aren’t used to thinking outside the box. People, of course, think sexuality is dependend on sexual experience – why do you thinks so many have issues with homosexuailty? It’s the ‘abnormal’ sex.

Of course it exists. I consider myself to be “bicurious”, as I have never slept with a woman, but I am still very happily married. I also don’t believe that I need penetration to be satisfied, just the closeness with a person. I felt an instant spark of deep closeness with my husband when we met, so I stayed to settle down with him. God forbid, should anything ever happen to him, I could find the same spark with a woman. Who knows?

So what’s the difference between bicurious and bisexual if we consider sexuality as being driven by an attraction toward an individual or type of person rather than the actual acts you commit with, on, to, through, or around them. ;-)

I don’t know how to feel about it. People have described me as “Bi-curious” I’m married to a man and I love him with all my heart, but I have been sexually attracted to women in the past and had sexual relations. I don’t over think it :)

I happen to think that bisexuality is the only orientation that exists.

That’s about where I am, @Ivan. Sexuality is not best defined, in my opinion, by what we do, but by what we feel.

Car accidents happen all the time.

So does that mean a cars intent is to crash?

And, sometimes we do luv a good smash up derby. Does not change the intent and purpose of that vehicles design.

Well I am sexually attracted to both men and women, and have had relationships with both, so I know from personal first hand experience that it absolutely does exist.

@ChazMaz

You’re going to have to flesh that out. ;-)

Yes, I am one. I am attracted to men and women, I like having sex with men and women and I have had relationships with both men and women. Sure, I am married to a woman, I have been for 9 years, but I still find men attractive and if something were to ever happen to her I would have no preference as to which sex I would date.

Sunday I was watching Ben Harper on TV and I kept saying “damn, he’s hot”. My wife just laughed. Come on. Ben Harper is so frickin’ HOT.

Yes, bisexuality exists and it is the norm.

Bisexuality is when one is attracted to both male and female of the species.

I am not sure as to what you mean by “whether people actually achieve this.” It is my understanding that one does not achieve sexuality ..um it just is.

I truly believe that every human being is born bisexual…It is society that changes that.

@PluckyDog

It depends on what the definition of bisexuality really is, though. If it rests on actually following through, then those that don’t are “bicurious” and not “bisexual,” as an example.

Bisexuality exists and it being normal is speculative.

I understand that many if not most prefer to be “normal” then just accepting that it is just what they want to do.
Like going to the beach and/or having a drink.

@ChazMaz

How is it speculative? I don’t point to this as actual proof, but Freudian psychosexual development assumes a baseline of bisexuality (rather, undirected sexuality) which is thereafter molded by societal pressures.

“Freudian psychosexual development” “assumes a baseline”

Freud and assumes goes well together.

That’s what I said. Or some of it.

By nature, humans are curious creatures. So, to me, bicurious AND bisexuality are natural normal aspects of humanity. I guess I sort of see the two as one in the same ;)

@PluckyDog

As do I. ;-)

I consider it the sexual nature of androgynes, which is what I am.

@iamthemob A biphilic heterosexual society would probably be best but bisexuality is just a form of being gay that doesn’t have to worry as much about dying out. The norm is that which applies in most cases (couldn’t find the actual def. but it’s something along those lines) so taking that and evolution: Being straight is the norm. Yes, believe it or not, sexual instinct is genetic.

It is no privilege to be the norm, nor do I really care who is what. I just feel angry because of people caring about any of this stuff.

Sexual desire, attraction, etc. is a little more complicated than sexual instinct.

I believe (believe to know that is) that instinct is all that determines sexual orientation.

That needs some support though – if that’s the case, it seems that homosexuality should have been bred out as nonadaptive years ago.

@iamthemob “homosexuality should have been bred out as nonadaptive years ago.” Why?

@TheOnlyNeffie – if sexual instinct is the only thing that determines orientation, then such instinct could not be inherited by “future” homosexuals, as the possibility of breeding would pretty much drop to zero. Therefore, although bisexuality would still exist, it seems unlikely that homosexuals would stick around

Oh, obviously, true. I wasn’t thinking about it like that.

Yes I believe it’s true. I’m still trying to find out what my sexuality is…..It’s hard, but I do believe that it does exists in this cruel world…..But at the moment I’m Bi-curious. So I don’t really know….

It does sound weird to some people, but I think most people would be more likely to be open to both sexes if there wasn’t a societal disgust against it. There are probably fewer people who would only be attracted to one sex only even if society didn’t frown upon homosexuality or bi-sexuality.

Of course it exists. But there are men who don’t get a boner while observing a naked man and there are men who don’t get a boner while observing a naked women. Same for women.

lol You said, boner.

@mattbrowne

Are you talking about the experiment where men and women were shown porn and tested on their reactions?

People tell me I’m too serious at times. Yes. Some experiments even involve fMRI scans.

Well, this all comes down to your definitions. I occasionally have identified as bisexual because I am able to find both men and women sexually attractive (not that I’m so gauche to proclaim the existence of only two genders) and though the ways in which I find them attractive are very different, the reaction (read: raging hard on) is the same.

Currently, I find it more useful to identify as straight. I’ve been in relationships with men and women and have found women more appealing, more able to fulfill my sexual needs, and more emotionally compatible. I’m still attracted to both sexes, but I’m looking for a meaningful relationship currently, and I feel that it will be with a woman. Not that in my relationships with women I haven’t pined for some old-fashioned man-loving, but I don’t see it as any different then when you’re dating a girl with short hair and you miss how you used to yank on your old girlfriend’s pony-tail. The relationship can still be sexually fulfilling even if you aren’t being gratified in every way you could possibly want. Of course… the woman I’m seeing now actually gets really turned on by my stories of boyfriends past, so we’ll just have to see how this all plays out…

Anyway… as I’ve stated in previous threads, labels are things you give yourself. I used to call myself straight, then gay, then bi, then straight, because these terms reflected what I was looking for at the time. “True” bisexuality, I define not as there mere ability to get a lift out of both men and women, but the desire to pursue them in a sexual sense. I don’t really think that IS the norm, even if more people are capable of it than will admit it. It seems most people identify as gay or straight, but it certainly exists.

If you want an example in a species other than our own for examples of bisexuality…look no frther than another great ape: the bonobo. Sex is openly employed to maintain harmony with opposite sex partners as well as same sex partners. Sexual researchers usually agree that sexual orientation falls on a spectrum from heterosexual to homosexual with a range of orientations in between. True bisexuality falls somewhere in the middle. There is research that indicates that orientation may be a result of hormonal fluctuations while a fetus in inutero and still developing.

@Joybird I find the Bonobos fascinating ..good reference :)

I agree with the thought that people, in general, would be more open to same-sex experiences if it were more culturally accepted. I don’t agree that all people are innately bisexual, but that’s why the Kinsey scale is so handy, because I feel like sexuality runs on a gradient. This means that while there are varying degrees of openness, some people experience zero attraction whatsoever to the opposite of their sexual orientation. My best friend is a perfect example – he’s gay (a 6 on the Kinsey scale) and over the years, it’s become very apparent to me that he really, honestly doesn’t grasp the subtleties of attractiveness in women.

I think bisexuals are hard to pin down, in terms of definitions. You have your people who have never been with someone of their gender, yet identify as bisexual. You have people who are predominantly hetero/homo who might engage in sex with the opposite of their preferred gender. You have people who are attracted to men and women equally. You have people who only date and get emotionally invested in one gender, but who are sexually (and not emotionally) attracted to the other gender.

Technically, I suppose, all of these people are bisexual, but the word ‘bisexual’ is so much more vague than the term ‘hetero’ or ‘homo’, and this is the reason I think bi people get so much shit. People are far more comfortable when they can pin you down and slap on a label because it gives them the impression that they have figured you out. It’s much harder to do with people who are bi because even people in the GLBTQ community don’t really have a firm idea of what it means.

I think someone who has not actually been with someone of the same gender is bi-curious. This feels a bit hypocritical to me because when people say to a gay person, ‘Well, how do you know you’re not straight if you’ve never slept with the opposite sex?’ we always go, Dude. You just know who you’re attracted to. Right? It’s just a bit different to me when it comes to bisexuality, I guess because there is a population of people who call themselves bi in order to turn on their boyfriend, because it’s different, they think it’s cool, who knows.. really, I’m just guessing here. That kind of person has no intention whatsoever of acting on any kind of attractions they might have. They live a hetero life, maybe they’re not even connected to the gay community at all. So, bi-curious (at least until they begin to explore, get involved in the community, etc.).

Some folks are attracted to both men and women, some with a slight or definite preference for one or the other. I know a few bi girls that have told me they feel equally attracted to both men and women (that it’s less about gender and more about the person), have dated and slept with both, and can be both emotionally and sexually attracted to both genders. I have a hard time understanding why, given the choice, everyone doesn’t date women, but I believe these girls when they say they have no preference one way or another.

Then, there are people like me, who are very emotionally and sexually attracted to the same gender but with less frequency, might hook up with opposite gender people. Technically, I’m bisexual, but I identify as gay, considering that there’s nothing going on for me emotionally toward guys. I’m a very open-minded person and you know, maybe I will meet a guy one day that just blow me away and I’ll end up getting married, but I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt it. The spark, that ‘wow’ feeling, it’s just not there for me. What my heart wants is a woman. Not to mention, in terms of who I am, I feel much closer to the lesbian/gay culture and community than any others.

I don’t really understand the question Do you think bisexuality exists? Bisexuality is pretty evident to me and I have no doubt that it exists.

This doesn’t really cover everything, but it’s long enough as it is, so I’ll stop here.

I know I have used the words ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ fairly interchangeably here. I do know the difference. I considered putting a finer point on it, but sexuality and who you’re attracted to encompasses so many different factors, not to mention all the different types of people and how they personally identify. So, in my mind, I’m including everyone. Please don’t skewer me.

@MissAnthrope “I agree with the thought that people, in general, would be more open to same-sex experiences if it were more culturally accepted.”

I don’t buy this. Humans get up to all sorts of sexual behaviour which isn’t culturally accepted, some of it postively illegal, on a scale which would indicate that we’re led by our lusts and desires more by convention. Careful consideration of cultural mores doesn’t come into it.

@meiosis – by that logic though, legalization of drugs would therefore not lead to any increase in the scale of drug use.

@iamthemob I think that would probably be the case. If crack was legal would you start? I know I wouldn’t. At the same time, the illegality of other substances was never a barrier to my using them.

I also know that, during the death throws of my marriage, the sheer ego-boosting thrill of having sex with a woman other than my wife was considerably stronger than the feelings of betrayal to my wife (which were still pretty strong, just not strong enough), let alone any consideration that society at large didn’t approve.

@meiosis – there are a few drugs that run in between none and crack…so I don’t think that my answer to that is relevant. ;-)

I think you’re off base, though, and I don’t know if you’re considering the complex interactions of environment, social morality, and family pressure – and how those can interact with sexual activity. The fact that humans do get into sexual activity outside the norm isn’t proof that, were it to be considered acceptable, people who weren’t doing it wouldn’t.

Behavior that is considered shameful or embarrassing, or even damaging, may be done despite the risk, but it will be done on average much more secretly. It seems like you’re suggesting that desire leads to the act, inevitably. Because bisexuality is still taboo, people don’t talk about it, and hide when they do it. Because people hide it, those who experience it think its weird and try to ignore it. Because of that, they convince themselves they are one way or another.

When people can do it openly, and there’s no shame, etc., attached, society generally develops so that people are not more open to it, but not suppressing it.

A good analogy is drinking in the U.S. – you hide it if you do it, or try not to do it that much, when you’re under 21. Once you’re legal, frequency of drinking generally increases (spectacularly for some). The desire was always there, but you don’t really do it, or you hide it, until it’s okay for you to do it in front of other people.

Another example we can look at is Iranian Prez Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and other leaders in developing fundamentalist countries, who claim that there is no such thing as a homosexual in their countries. I doubt anyone here believes that that is true – but under the regime it’s impossible to live out in the open – so you fake it and marry someone.

Comments, therefore, about social convention are not about leading behavior, but preventing it and creating convincing self-denial.

Countries such as Iran are outliers in this debate, in that the penalty for openly expressing one’s sexual desire can be exceptionally harsh. (Although the more socially conservative countries top the list of sex-related searches in google trends)

Community outrage can affect the frequency and openness with which one engages in socially unacceptable behaviour, but especially in the field of human sexual desire, I do not believe it will supress it entirely. We humans constantly behave sexually in ways that are, on the face of it, absurdly self-destructive, but we are exceptionally driven by our desires. It’s also easier than ever, in relative anonymity for those worried about external pressures, to find like-minded people with which to explore one’s desires.

@meiosis – But married men and women, after coming to terms with their sexuality, have left their spouses to have same-sex relationships. And gay teens commit suicide rather than live a life where people would know who they are. The first demonstrates that the desire can be fully suppressed, and the second demonstrates the strength of the social foces at work to make one suppress them.

Realize – the argument is not that people will, naturally, turn bisexual in a 50/50 sense. We’re talking about an increase in more open sexuality that isn’t so gender-focused. If you look at the animal kingdom and human childhood – it’s mostly hedonistic, and about what feels good when you rub up against it. ;-)

At risk of sounding just like @Simone_De_Beauvoir I think everyone would be much happier if gender didn’t actually matter so much.

@iamthemob pretty much laid out my thoughts on the matter. Thanks, dude.

Realize – the argument is not that people will, naturally, turn bisexual in a 50/50 sense. We’re talking about an increase in more open sexuality that isn’t so gender-focused.

All I meant was that people would be more open to same-sex experiences if it were culturally accepted. I also went on to say that some people are 100% straight or gay. Anyway, whether we like it or not, our sexual mores do pretty much fall in line with what our society considers acceptable. Like most things, think of sexual activity vs. social acceptance as a bell curve. Of course there will always be people doing what’s prohibited or considered taboo, but most fall comfortably near the average.

@MissAnthrope anytime.

@iamthemob “But married men and women, after coming to terms with their sexuality, have left their spouses to have same-sex relationships”

This reinforces my position that human sexual desire will out, eventually, and demonstrates the opposite of your point, in that human sexual desire cannot be fully suppressed. And who knows what clandestine sexual experimentation these people have engaged in before getting the strength to come out.

“And gay teens commit suicide rather than live a life where people would know who they are…(which) demonstrates the strength of the social foces at work to make one suppress them.”

I agree that the forces against the expression of the range of human sexual desire are disgustingly strong, But surely the tragic suicides of gay teens is a symptom of the bullying they receive in the face of their inability to supress their inate sexuality?

@meiosis – you’re assuming that the suicides are related to direct bullying. The abuse is also suffered in the closet by people speaking about them and not knowing, as well as to them and knowing.

Desire will out when it becomes acceptable. You appear to be suffering from profound confirmation bias on this front. Because we do not know how many people suffered in the closet all those years, the fact that some came out is not proof that people will not be able to contain their desires. However, the fact that more husbands have done it as homosexuality has become accepted is evidence suggesting that people both (1) convince themselves for a period of time that they were one way sexually instead of another, and (2) that as society accepts sexuality, people are more willing to express it, and it may become more common.

For me, it’s always been how the person is with me in a relationship. Their gender is secondary to that. If I feel just as over-the-moon when she cooks for me as I do when he defends my honor at a bar, then the rest of it doesn’t matter.

No, I think you’re either more heterosexual or more homosexual, but not 50/50, that is, not equally attracted to both sexes sexually.

@MRSHINYSHOES – I find it interesting that you make that statement, considering you are predominantly hetero, no?

I feel like experience teaches a lot. Straight people are often a bit clueless in regards to sexuality because they have only their own experience to draw from.

There are definitely people—I know some right now—that are quite equally attracted to both sexes.

@MissAnthrope

I don’t know – even though @MRSHINYSHOES might not be right that there are “no people” how are 50/50, I think it’s exceedingly rare – and probably impossible to measure.

Here, I think it more has to do with how one is understanding bisexuality. Personally, I think that complete homosexuality, heterosexuality, and precise bisexuality are very rare.

@MissAnthrope Actually I think bisexuality really doesn’t exist. Those people who like to “think” they’re bisexual and tell others that are really basically homosexual, and that their “heterosexual side” are merely feelings that come and go as in anyone else, straight or gay. These people might even be saying that to sound “hip”, as if bisexuality is a neat thing. There are people who do that, for the purposes of showing off how cool it is. lol

For me, sexuality is on a continuum, and that true bisexuality is really a misnomer. You are either more straight or more gay, not in the middle. ;)

@MRSHINYSHOES You seriously believe that?

If you’re up to reading on the subject, Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity by Bruce Bagemihl is a great book. We are, after all, animals.

Another great book The History of Sexuality, Vol. 1: An Introduction (all 3 volumes) by Michel Foucault.

I’m sure others can suggest several more.

@PluckyDog For me, all literature and research out there cannot prove it. You cannot empirically prove sexuality. Homosexuality and heterosexuality are sexual orientations, and can only be based on subjectivity. Therefore, I believe there is no such thing as true bisexuality, only being more of one orientation than the other. Enough said my friend. ;)

@MRSHINYSHOES all literature and research out there cannot prove it Wow, how very bold of you to admit to being so completely close-minded.

As someone who has been aware of my own bisexuality for more than 20 years, I’ll thank you not to tell me what I “think”. And if you think being outside of what is considered the norm in the Bible belt is hip or cool, then I’ll be happy to host your visit and give you a very quick and violent education.

@syz Get off your bookish high chair. I think people who are too “educated” often suffer from “common sense constipation” and need a good dose of a “reality laxative”. Lol.

Have a good day. Will not follow this thread any longer.

How is it even possible to be ‘too educated’?

I’m surprised that he even bothers with the internet – if he’s not careful, he might accidentally learn something.

Tee hee.

It’s worth noting that @MRSHINYSHOES’ position is self-contradictory. If sexual orientation is not an empirical fact about a person, but rather a subjective interpretation of oneself, then the subjective determination by any person that s/he is bisexual is sufficient to prove that bisexuality exists as much as any other sexual orientation does.

@syz “For me, bisexual means that my attraction for someone is not based on what’s in their pants. I’m sure plenty of people disagree, but it seems like an eminently logical approach.”

What you are describing sounds like pansexuality. It is that gender and sex are insignificant/irrelevant in determining sexual attraction.

I only understand two definitions, one referring to the attraction or decision of a lifelong partner, and the other referring to the sexual attraction. And I definitely consider these distinct.

I do not use the ’—sexual’ terms because I stick to the concepts of sex and reproduction at its core. So first I would have to define sex, and that is the act of procreation, fornication, male and female.

Homosexual is a biological term for me, not a ‘persuasion’ or anything of the like. And last I checked, no two humans of the same gender were capable of producing a child from conception to birth. So I do not use the nomenclature.

As a species, we are heterosexuals. Use of the term to refer to my sexual pleasure satisfaction preferences I think causes many of the problems, likewise homosexual, and bisexual. The terms establish groups of people, categories, classifications, but are used very subjectively (as to who is in which group by what standards), hence this thread’s question. And I would point to this very thread as an example of how people can’t come to a universal consensus on the borders of the groups… If you can’t indicate clearly in which classification one belongs, then I have to wonder if the classifications are even substantiated.

The primary reason I don’t use these terms is actually because they had viable definitions before they were used for these groups. Adding fuzzy definitions to words I find very unappealing, but creating neologisms I’m all for.

So the first definition provides me the answer, no. People are not bisexual, and cannot produce children with either gender of sexual partner.

However, I can also understand that you might be asking if I think there are people that are sexually attracted to both genders (still going on the physical pleasure perspective mind you). In which case my answer would be the guess… yes. Though I would consider it pertinent to explain what I mean by ‘sexual’ here.

During sex, most people experience varying degrees of physical and psychological pleasure, and those acts that are in pursuit of said pleasure, I can understand as ‘sexual’ as opposed to companionship (that other long term significant other concept).

People are sexually aroused and pursue satisfaction with all manner of things, and many would fall into multiple classifications if based thereon.

Several facts I have considered:
Masturbation is stimulation (often of the genitals) in pursuit of usually sexual pleasures, and is not exclusive of multiple people (i.e. masturbation is a verb, and an act that can be performed on another).
Almost every human being that engages in sexual activity masturbates them self and their partner at some time or another throughout the engagement, regardless of their sexual preferences.
Celibacy is one who abstains from sexual intercourse, not masturbation.
Every human being is celibate during portions of their life.
There is no such thing as oral sex; no one can get another pregnant via intercourse with the mouth, at least not to my knowledge. There is fellatio and cunnilingus, both forms of masturbation.

So in consideration of this, I cannot consider gay couples, homosexuals (whatever the label is over that classification) to engage in sex at all, though they regularly engage in celibate masturbation, and according to statistics, they do so much more often than couples have sex.

I stick to the sexual arousal definitions most often since I have rarely encountered those who use homo-, hetero-, or bisexual without intending to include sexual pleasure preferences.

The application of the term(s) only referring to the gender which one prefers for long term companionship in life (regardless of sexual preferences), I consider a separate notion only because I have yet to hear any even remotely clear explanation that incorporates both pleasure preference and companionship preference. Though many I witness use the terms in such ways.

If it is this notion referred to by ‘bisexual’, then I would guess yes, many people find the companionship of either gender equally rewarding.

I don’t think people distinguish between what desires they are speaking about for being too wrapped up in right, wrong, good, bad, etc. People judge others, a lot, about everything. I state here an observation only (as I don’t judge people for judging). But where someone draws the line of ‘acceptable’ is by its very nature subjective.

“Homosexuality is fine and people need to be more open minded, but pedophilia and bestiality are out and out wrong!” Oh how we love to draw our lines based on our subjective judgements.

It’s not the fact that some people are turned on by children that I have a problem with, it’s the forcing of one’s will on a child to perform such acts that moves me to agree with stringent laws and punishment for such. But if I were to judge pedophilia as wrong or bad based on its deviation from some norm or what we know to be the act of sex (intercourse here), I would likewise have to do the same for any behavior that deviated.

I should likely stop. I hope I at least provided food for thought.
My answers are yes and no, depending on which facet(s) of the relationship we are considering within the question.

Sorry for the book…