What would you do if you found out your government had to borrow money from a private bank to run the ecconomy, and that this was the real cause of inflation?

My government borrows money from private entities all the time. The government has always been borrowing from private entities, and has never been able to function without it. We’ve never been without a national debt.

Buy a Treasury bill?

Calm down. This is just hysteria deliberately stirred up by people with a political agenda who don’t understand our modern economy.

You can find plenty of breathless, terrifying accounts of just about anything on the Internet, and this is yet another one.

I didn’t read the links, but our whole country got screwed when it went off the gold standard. End of story.

@pdworkin

Who does understand our modern economy and how are we ever supposed to when Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has repeatedly said that an audit of how the Fed is operating could be very damaging to the economy?

Our entire economy and monetary policy is being handled by a few people in a room, all of who have come from major financial institutions, all being done in secret. We are being robbed.

We may be getting robbed, but not because of fiat currency or the Gold Standard or the central bank system, or borrowing by the Fed.

@pdworkin
I expected more from you…..I really did ;-p
Riddle me this then, why do we ‘NEED’ central banks?

More accurately, my banks are loaning money to a public country.

@Pazza Obviously we have needed a central banks since the early years of this country. The First Bank of the United States was authorized in 1791 to stabilize our economic system. It was supported by the northern commercial interests because they could not function with a wildly fluctuating economic system. It was opposed by southerners (anti-federalists) who were all about states rights. Sound familiar?

The 20 year charter was not renewed in 1811 because when things are working in this country, we decide the institutions that make it work can be eliminated, a la deregulation. The folly of this decision became obvious the next year when the British began interfering with American trade, began kidnapping Americans into the British navy and paying Native Americans to attack the Northwest frontiers. During the War of 1812, without a central bank, the US government had difficulty maintaining economic stability and even paying military expenses so the political winds changed and the Second Bank of the United States was chartered for another 20 years.

However President Jackson chafed under the fact that he couldn’t control the bank so he refused to deposit tax revenues in the 2nd, instead using state banks which led to its failure. For the next 25 years we had no central bank, only poorly regulated state banks. Half of the banks failed (without federal insurance, depositers lost all their money) and there was rampant land speculation. 1837–1862 vs 1981–2008 hmm

With the nation at war (over states’ rights again) and the Union unable to pay for it the national banking system was put into effect. But without a central bank to provide stability, there were a series of panics and depressions. By 1914 the Fed was established to provide that stability. The Fed was wholly independent of the govt as it experimented with the supply of money instead of the demand for money as we do today. This contributed to the stock market bubble that led to the 1929 crash. The Fed made the wrong move again which deeped the depression and it wasn’t until FDR’s administration put the Fed under govt guidance. Again after 45 years of a basically good economy, many Americans allowed themselves to be persuaded that Big=Bad (the same people who made Walmart the biggest retailer in the world?) and that all the stabilizers should be thrown overboard. Well the ship of the economy, without stabilizers, began to drift into bad weather and eventually almost sank in 2008.

So here we are again with the anti-federalist conservatives who will stick to an outdated, proven incorrect political agenda and raise a know-nothing base who can’t be bothered to study history or economics because sports and reality shows are more compelling than their children’s future. A country gets the government they merit.

A low to moderate rate of inflation is actually desirable. It encourages people to invest their money in stocks and bonds to get a higher rate of return rather than leave it in a bank or under the mattress. Even a slight amount of deflation is destabilizing.

That said, by all means, let’s make The Fed accountable for what they do, for ill or good.

@galileogirl

Are you saying that we need a central bank so we can fund our constant wars?

@chris6137 I’m saying history tells us we need a central bank to stabilize our economy. The fact that we don’t learn from history as it relates to our economy or war is also a topic. Although the establishment of our new country (1st Bank) and the War of 1812 (2nd Bank) and the Civil War (which brought about the national banking system) might be considered unavoidable by the federal govt. You have to get your new country’s economy functioning and when your country’s sovereignty is being attacked from without or within you have to stand or die as a nation. Before you made that disingenuous comment you should have made note of the fact that I didn’t refer to Korea, Viet Nam or the Middle East, our policeman to the world ventures. The central bank was established long before that.

However the weakening of the central bank has led to several economic crises, so you might say we need it to prevent economic failure.

It doesn’t matter so much where the money is coming from. The problem, is that there is interest attached. That is the inflation. Then, the 16th amendment allows for an income tax to pay our obligation to the interest. Any fiat money will do. That is just about the only type of money that could possibly sustain our vast ‘wealth’ and also allow for massive speculative bubbles. All of this ‘centralization’ of power, though I find labels misleading, sounds eerily like communism:

http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

Don’t forget Fascism:

http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html

For you U.S.A. citizens, like me, I have this for you to ponder:

http://www.taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/weapons-additional.html

For any of you into the ‘truth’, ‘freedom’, ‘end the fed’, ‘tea-party’, ‘militia’, ‘conspiracy’ or any other similar movement, I offer one time tested method to deal with the problems we face.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&ref=mf&gid=185006637428

I envision humanity without an ‘ism’ to live by. Political systems are old technology, and frankly one of only control. Each person reading this will admit the he/she is the best person to direct his/her own life; and not any government.

This whole Federal Reserve conspiracy may have some truth to it, but I can see a definite agenda as well. I have written three articles giving detailed insight into what I see as a very real, and rapidly upcoming possibility.

Read them in this order:

“Truthers Beware” – http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=185006637428&topic=10994

“End The Fed. The right way.” – http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=185006637428&topic=11091

“And you…you will be all alone.” – http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=185006637428&topic=11099

To suggest that everything is just peachy is to say that you resemble this:

http://www.federaljack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/UNCLE-JACK-SHEEP-FOXNEWS.jpg

I gotta say, when I think about reliable, trustworthy, well-researched sources, Facebook and Fox News aren’t the first ones to spring to mind.

[Mod Says:] Flame off folks. Please stick to the topic.
Personal attacks and off-topic quips will be removed.

@Darbio16
I’m no expert to say the least but so far as I know the 16th amendment was never ratified, its an un-apportioned tax and is therefore UNLAWFUL under your own constitution.

@galileogirl
So you see no problem with the fact that the central banking system creates in inescapable debt?

@everyone
Me thinks you should all watch Aaron Russo’s ‘Freedom to facism’

@Pazza

You’re preaching to the choir here man. Most people in my country don’t get the way things really are. There is Ron Paul’s bill to audit the fed, and there is an ‘End The Fed’ movement. I have seen that film and it is very eye opening. Another very informative film with the same theme, only with much more historical citation, is ‘Money Masters’.

People in this country feel have a strong sense of nationalism and patriotism. The only problem is, half of the things we defend are hurting us. Legal or not, the 16th amendment is being obeyed because most Americans are unaware that it is illegal. We have people defending the constitution. Even though many of the amendments are not for us, but against us. Most people are so brain washed that when you mention a constitutional flaw they want to flog you with a baseball bat.

I think some of us realize how important we are, and no paper document would ever change anything. If Americans truly felt that their rights were unalienable, then they wouldn’t need to rely on a piece of paper that says so.

The 16th Amendment has been adjudicated as legal, and only crackpot conspiracy theorists still insist that it is somehow illegitimate. You boys are on the wrong website. Fluther is where you get good, well-documented information. You want something like this

@Pazza Actually I thought it was caused by deficit spending. Does that mean that Visa & Mastercard are responsible for runaway consumer debt and not people buying crap they can’t afford?

@galileogirl
Actually, to be fair to all the greedy compulsive buy people, if they didn’t constantly buy crap with out of fresh air fiat money then the ecconomy would collapse within almost 12 months (ok thats speculative!). The trouble is buying all this unnecessary shite just prolongs the agony.

@pdworkin
legal it may be, but lawful it ain’t, you need to clarify the two terms in your head.

@Darbio16
When you talk about piece of paper, I take that as the constitution?.... Rudy Giuliani was quoted as saying ‘the people can’t quote the constitution because they’re not a party to it’, and he’s right (the bastard), some people poo-poo this, but the fact is if you have a birth cirtificate, you have a contract with your government, and this contract comes with rules called statutes, if you break any of these rules you breach the contract and are punished. Simples…..

So the bad news is the 16 amendment is a contractual agreement, however the good news is, the contract is not binding and you can exit it when ever you see fit.

If you haven’t already been, you might find www.thinkfree.ca an interesting website.
Or just youtube Robert Menard. Also his book can be found at www.scribd.com and search for bursting bubbles.

Glad to hear from another ‘conspiracy nut’ we seem to be popping up all over the place nowa-days, next thing you know we’ll be saying global warming is man made!.........

@Pazza So maybe it is deficit spending might be responsible for debt and not the central banking system after all, is that what you are saying? Yeah, I did noticed how you sidestepped there. And how is the govt or corps or you in any different position when it comes to fiat money.

The 16th amendment is the law of the land that cannot simply a nonbinding contract. You just can’t make up mean down just by making up a know-nothing double talk. It’s intellectually dishonest.

‘Splain me the distinction between lawful and legal, please. Can the Government impose Income Tax or not? If so how can they do it if it is not legal? If not, how can they do it? You lost me, @Pazza

@pdworkin

You would be correct if pieces of paper ruled the world, but they don’t. It is simply having the resources to implement the governments will. Many common terms have different meanings in legal documents. After learning the definitions of legal words, then reading the Constitution for instance, you may see a much different world than you were raised to believe.

Basically, the Federal Reserve opened the gateway to both of the world wars. United States entered the WWI the year after the creation of the Federal Reserve. Also, knowing that the Federal Reserve is also connected with the world bank and international monetary fund, we see that they fund any and all parties involved in any and all transactions. Including wars.

Congress need not declare war any longer because it is no longer a democratic process. Now only the resources need be provided for wars. Including….you guessed it….MONEY! A president can declare war without congress approval. It is just called a conflict or some other name to imply that myriad people aren’t being sent to slaughter on both sides. Speaking of presidents. They can, and always have been able to, produce executive orders. ‘Laws’ that need no ratification process. Only the means of implementation:

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

The executive orders on that list were not created to serve no purpose. In writing them down, that also means that they already have, or are working on, a means of implementation. The news story already broke over a year ago. In 2005 Bush formed the North American Union on paper. Here again, we see that it is just a piece of paper. Now they need an implementation.

One of the first steps to carry out such a plan is the ‘End The Fed’ Movement. I want the usury to end, but the idea of a commonly used currency isn’t a bad thing. Ron Paul’s bill, and the whole ‘End The Fed’ movement, will back fire on itself. I go into great detail about possible scenarios for the coming day, and practical solutions that each of use could be using on a blog a created:

http://globalnon-compliance.blogspot.com/

Read the last article at the bottom, “Truthers Beware”, first and then continue reading in ascending order to “End The Fed. The right way.” and then “And you…you will be all alone.”.

Pd, you are correct in many ways. They ARE trying to create hysteria. Though I do not see anyone posting reasons why they are doing so, and it doesn’t even matter, I am working out possible practical solutions to strengthen my community. You need not believe in conspiracy as such to see that there is something very wrong with the current worldview. Consequently, you need not believe in the solution for it to work. In essence I am asking people to believe in themselves. Personal empowerment to the extent in which you realize, without the need for a piece of paper stating your rights, you ARE FREE.