Why Do Bad Things Happen?

I am not answering from the religious perspective. I think bad things happen the same reason good things happen, because things happen. Some are bad in our view and some are good.

Simply put it all stems down to the nature of humans and Adam and Eve (from my Christian perspective, please take it no further), free will and all that. There are numerous articles on the internet that many come to a similar point, I personally can never wiggle out of these discussions so I’m going to leave it now to someone else who would rather put more perspectives into it. I could try and get a long and fanciful description from my dad but eh. He’s enjoying reading his book :)

How would we know what goodness was without badness?

I gave up on the idea of “bad” and “good”. It’s all just stuff.

Your question is a classic and is otherwise described as The Problem of Evil. There’s a good discussion of it on the Wikipedia page. In my mind, it reinforces the validity of an eastern and cyclical perspective with respect to religion (as opposed to linear and Judeo-Christian), but my perspective is not a capital “T” truth by any means.

did you really have to bring G-d into this?
To answer in a not religious way- nikipedia said it all. How would we even know what good is without pain?? Learning experiences is what makes us grow. I’ve gone through some crazy shit, and never regret any pain I’ve had to go through because I appreciate all the good in my life.

Some people think all evil is actually good in the way that we can’t see. I think it’s called the “Greater Good” thereom. The idea is that even in the worst things in the world—maybe a baby burning to death in a house fire—there is some good (maybe that baby would have been the next Hitler). As lowly mortals, we can’t understand the greater good, but must trust it to God.

A good quote: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”—Epicurus

Because there isn’t an all-powerful and loving God?

@misterbluesky85
The problem I have with the “Greater Good” theory is it can’t really be used to explain major disasters and events like Auschwitz for example.

Hate to play Devil’s advocate here, but if things on the impossibly small scale (quantam physics) don’t make “logical” sense, then why would you expect a supreme being to play by the same rules that we use?

@TheHaight
I bought religion into this as I do have a biased view towards things like this due to my beliefs and my upbringing, I do admire those who can view topics like this from a completely neutral point of view and make complete sense to people like me :)

and @iamatypeofwalrus I like your way of thinking haha ;)

@osullivanbr: That’s a reasonable reaction. Someone might then shoot back with the typical “burden of proof” response. I’ll play it out because it can be confusing:

You: Auschwitz is bad. How could an all-powerful and loving God let that happen?
Them: There’s a greater good there. You just don’t see it.
You: How the hell can there be a greater good in Auschwitz? I contend that there is no greater good.
Them: It’s not my responsibility to prove that a greater good exists. It’s your responsibility to prove that a greater good does not exist. And until you prove that, we can make no progress in this argument.
You: Man, that sucks.
Them: Tell me about it. You think it’s fun hypothesizing the silver-lining to Auschwitz?

And how philosophy works sometimes.

@iamatypeofwalrus: I would respond to that by saying that things on the quantum scale don’t make sense NOW, but they probably will in time.

Also, God has to always play by certain rules no matter what because those rules are completely universal. God can never make 1 + 1 = 3, for instance. This doesn’t take any power away from God, he’s still supreme, but the rules of mathematics transcend everything—everything—so he can’t escape them. (I know you’re gonna argue that sometimes 1 + 1 != 3 in quantum physics; it was a simple example. :P )

Or the quantam levels of electron shells where you can arrive at B from A instantly without having to travel in between A and B. Doesn’t “make sense”, no?

What I meant to say was really a reaction against the Epicurus example. I don’t doubt that a “supreme being” has to play by some rules, we may just not undestand them yet, if ever.

If one postulates God as the creator of the universe they would be God’s rules, right?

What if g-d is simply the creator of humans and not the universe?

As in merely created with the universe? Then would he be god? I will leave this to continue as I must sleep.

To teach you lessons?

Well…. there was an early Gospel discovered at Nag Hammadi among many others which the early church left out of the early Christian Bible, titled “Thunder, Perfect Mind.”
It’s pretty mystical but it’s not a bit confusing. The vision of reality in it is
HUGE. The voice in it claims to have existed before God and to have created God.
It’s as if the fertile void has speech. Anyway, this entity’s existence would
support what Walrus is suggesting: that God did not make the universe, only the world
(and us).

@susanc
I missed that one. Any ideas how I could get a look at what that one says?

Karma

pain reminds me I’m alive. I would much rather feel pain than nothing. Numbness is the worst thing that can happen to a person.

I don’t expect what God does to make sense. I don’t know enough to judge the sensibility of the actions of many people around me, let alone a supreme being. Yeah, you can say its bad for a guy to take hostages, but think of the movie John Q. Similarly, God let horrible things happen, and I won’t question it. Well, I’ll question it, because I believe we should question everything, but I’ll let him slide because I know that is one question I can’t answer.

The better question may be “Does God let things happen or make things happen?”

Disclaimer: I’m not really religous. I do not subscribe to any religion. I believe in a supreme force, but not really in Bible stories.

8lightminutesaway does raise another good question that’s another very interesting take on the topic.

Does God let things happen, or make them happen?
Any thoughts?

Neither.

@PupnTaco
I could have kinda guessed you’re answer would have been that. :)

I’m not disagreeing with you in any way however, all the evidence does seem to point to that conclusion.

If I remember correctly, the Deistic (sp) approach is that God set the world/universe in motion and once he did he also became bond to the laws of nature. Interestingly enough, the many of our Founding Fathers consider themsevles Deist.

jstringham21 beat me to it.

Bad things only happen because people let them happen. If we work together then we will have more good things happen to us then bad and more happiness. Thats just my take on it

@carrie
That’s not at all true that people let them happen. What about Earthquake, tsunami, famine etc. “Why do these things happen since God is supposed to be loving and all powerful” is the question…

I am on about life and love rather then natural disasters as natural are not an every day occuranse

As I heard it put once “If you wanted God to step in. When would he step out again?”

why ask god to step In at all why not bring it upon yourself to make your own happiness and create good for yourself be strong and confident in your self

Having all the confidence in the world in yourself doesn’t stop natural disastors and other people’s follies :)

@fabulous

I do agree that we should try and make our own happiness but…

skyrail is right. Being the most confident person in the world still doesn’t make you immune to suffering and pain.

We do seem to have gotten off the main topic though fellow flutherers.

why just focus on god and natural disasters what about the social topic

I did mention the social topic as well “and other people’s follies” you can change yourself all you want but it won’t change the 6 billion other people that surround us in this small world we live in.

I am not trying to change myself or anybody else I am just saying that we should try to focus on making our own happiness as we can not make everyone happy

Well what I’m saying it can be very very very hard if not impossible to make yourself completely happy, yes you can make yourself happy but there will always be downsides, bad things that happen, things that are inevitable and this is what the question was, why do they happen?

From a religious perspective, bad things happen b/c since the beginning Lucifer has been wondering about the world and he’s the creator of all bad things. God allows Lucifer to create his own mess, as in the case of Job where Lucifer told God that Job is his faithful servant b/c he has it all good for him and his family, but I bet once he gets his life messed up, he will curse you, meaning Job will curse God for his problems. Well as it turned out, Job did lose all his children, all his possessions and never once he cursed God for his problems. His wife did blame God for his problems though. Once God proved to Lucifer that Job was his faithful servant even in hard times, God put a stop on Lucifer and renewed Job’s life and gave him an even richer lifestyle.

Based on this example we can see that God let bad things happen and not make bad things. Every bad that happens has its purpose, we are just too limited in our thinking that we can’t comprehend all that is happening. Yeah, according to the Bible God is all loving so he can’t possibly make bad things to occur. There are just too many bad things happening that we wonder, WHY?

If God created the Universe, he doesn’t have to abide by the laws of nature. Why not? b/c He’s God! It just wouldn’t make sense that a creator has to respect the natural laws we are limited by. As it mentions in the bible, God got onto a fisherman’s boat and fell asleep when a huge tornado threatened everyone on the boat, then the disciples awakened Jesus b/c they were afraid to die, then Jesus said to the tornado: Calm down, and it became quiet. It’s weird how this could have happened, but if Jesus is God then it makes sense since He is all powerful.

I also have my doubts like anybody else, but if you read the “book” carefully you’ll find somethings that make sense. Now, keep in mind we aren’t getting into “the proof of God’s existance”, we are just nailing the subject why bad things happen?

what make u know something is happy? i believe that is your “unspeakable pain and excrutiating suffering”

@stephen
Eh say what?

If you are looking for a religious perspective, specifically Christian, on this issue, it would be helpful to review two of the major theories that may supplement one another. The first is the Free Will Defense, which gives a somewhat satisfying response for the problem of moral evil, or that evil which can be accounted for by human choices. The second philosophy, which does much to add to this Free Will Defense and even attempts to discuss natural evil, such as disasters and such, is called Irenaeus’ Theodicy. It does have parts of it that will differ from traditional Christianity, though it still has a number of thoughtful insights.

Things are not inherently good or bad. “Good” and “Bad” are internal labels that we apply to reality, just as “yellow” is a label we use for a certain wavelength of light. Good and bad things don’t happen – things happen, then we interpret them as such.

An earthquake is no more inherently good or bad than a sunrise, but we label it as such because it causes death and destruction. The death of a human, that is, the cessation of the chemical reactions that fuel its metabolism, is not inherently good or bad, but we label it as such if we care about that person.

Human selfishness and some events that the human being may perceive as ‘bad’ may serve some higher good, that our perspective, limited by time and space, as it is, may misinterpret.

Because people are basically evil

Ok guys, just thought you might like to know that my teacher printed out a copy of this question for everyone in our Religion and Philosophy class and used it as a teaching tool. We are studying The Problem of Evil right now so our task was to identify which theodicy or philosopher your answers represent. You’re famous!

Damn it. I knew I should have researched my answers before typing. Rats anyway.