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KeithWilson's avatar

Is narcissism a bad thing?

Asked by KeithWilson (833 points ) August 5th, 2010

I find myself being narcissistic. I dont really mind. But I do sometimes wonder if there are reasons why beign narcisstic might be a bad think. Thanks

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69 Answers

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

See here’s the thing: if you’re going to be narcissistic, at least have some goods (intelligence, passion, talent, success) to back it up and try to not annoy others about it…then, it’s fine by me.

KeithWilson's avatar

@Simone Thanks. That does make sense. And I try not to act like a jerk because of it.

Your_Majesty's avatar

There’s nothing wrong being proud of yourself. I think what is bad is when you harm others with your narcissism(not sure how one can do that).

zophu's avatar

Only if I say it is.

DarlingRhadamanthus's avatar

I think you may be referring to someone being “egotistical”. That’s different than true narcissism.

Narcissism, true NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is an actual psychological disorder. And it’s not pretty. Having been in a relationship with a narcissist, it is one of the most destructive disorders and apparently it affects more men (75%) than women. It is a very destructive disorder that unfortunately can destroy marriages and relationships if left untreated.

Here are some of the symptoms:

*Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

*Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion

*Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions)

*Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply)

*Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations

*Is “interpersonally exploitative”, i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends

*Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others

*Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her

*Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted

So…in my opinion….yes, “narcissism” is indeed, in my opinion, a bad thing or at least something that needs to be treated.

Coloma's avatar

Some ‘healthy’ narcissism ( strong self confidence/self esteem ) is a good thing.

If it crosses into the pathological definitions then, obviously no.

The hallmark of gross egocentrism is a lack of empathy, stemming from a lack of self.

If one has no sense of a self, one cannot empathize with what one does not have, namely a healthy emotional condition and ability to put oneself in anothers shoes.

Quite frankly the several pathological narcissists I have known are really fucked up and miserable human beings, always searching, never satisfied, empty on the inside but grandiose on the outside, stuck in the never ending cycle of idealization and devaluation which is the dark prison the narcissist inhabits.

Sad, but,.... true narcissists are very damaging people.

JilltheTooth's avatar

If a parent is narcissitic the children suffer. They believe that they must do everything to make the parent look good. They can never do enough, and what they do isn’t good enough. They believe they are not lovable, because if even the parent doesn’t love them, who possibly could? They are expected to be perfect and can never achieve that so they go through life feeling that they are sub-par.
@DarlingRhadamanthus just gave the list, it’s the one mental health practioners use to diagnose.
I can’t speak for the spouse or other family members of the narcissist, but it’s no damned picnic for anyone.

JilltheTooth's avatar

Sorry about the rant. Zinged a nerve there.

KeithWilson's avatar

I guess what Im talking about isnt pathological. Just the feeling of being grand and exeptional in unique ways. Comfortable with who I am not worried about my nature. I do still care about ohters around me. I can see things in others that might mean that they are somewhat narcissitic too. I dont see why having confidience in ones self can be a bad thing.

zophu's avatar

People need to be unique and a part of greatness; and even when they’re not, maybe it’s best for them to feel that they are anyway. I don’t know.

There’s too much trying to put people down in their multiple levels of being, it makes sense that you would want to rebel against that.

BoBo1946's avatar

No, if they don’t have a family to take care of. It would be a real challenge to balance family and work. Narcissistic people are very single minded. Hard to take care of family properly with this personality trait. Most of the rich people in the World are narcissistic! They are driven to achieve success. They are type A personalities that work almost 24/7! Would hate to be them.

KhiaKarma's avatar

Everyone has something to contribute and having the confidence to fully express your talents is a great thing. I ditto @Simone_De_Beauvoir‘s response.

KeithWilson's avatar

@BoBo I dont work at all and I am still narcissistic. I dont have any children either. I live with family, but I dont veiw some of them as unworthy of my attention. I treat them all as equals. Its a mild form of narcissism. But I thougth maybe it was a bad thing to be even a little narcissitic.

BoBo1946's avatar

@KeithWilson for self perservation, we all have some in us. That would be a very subjective thing to measure.

KeithWilson's avatar

@BoBo Great answer

DrasticDreamer's avatar

I agree with whoever said that it doesn’t sound as if you’re describing true narcissism. Those who are narcissistic tend not to care about anything in the world, other than themselves – which means they definitely can’t be empathetic or relate to other people. That said, there’s nothing wrong with being confident in yourself. American society, as a whole, would tell you otherwise. A lot of people would say that thinking you’re great at something, or believing that you have true talent, is egotistical, stuck up, or narcissistic. Well… I vehemently disagree, and I say they’re wrong.

No one, anywhere, should seek outside affirmation for who they are, who they should be, or what they’re good at. There is nothing wrong with recognizing your own talents, or uniqueness, regardless of how often you hear otherwise.

KeithWilson's avatar

Would a king have a right to be more narcissistic and pretentious?

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@KeithWilson I would say a king (depending, of course) has less of a right to be narcissistic. Why? Because kings tend to be born into their positions, and had to achieve not a single greatness to obtain the power they have. So logically, what kind of bragging rights do they have, really?

SeventhSense's avatar

Not necessarily except in meaningful relationships. Most narcissists leave quite content lives. It’s the people they relate to that go crazy but we are victims of our own disorder as well. I often meet others like myself that are apparently clueless in some of their behaviors and say the damnedest things. A few women I’ve literally wanted to kill. I have empathy for others that I have acquired over time but sometimes I don’t know if that’s true empathy or social conditioning as to acceptable and unacceptable behavior.
There are levels of narcissism and they range from the self absorbed to the pathological psychotic. Here’s a good simple test
My score for Entitlement and exploitativeness is LOW so that makes me feel good. I truly don’t like to hurt anyone. I rate a 30 on that scale which puts me firmly in the camp of the narcissist. Which is surprising because a year ago I scored a 20! They say it gets worse as you get older. The most painful thing I find is the difficulty with personal relationships. Actually that’s not even accurate. I don’t even feel pain anymore. It’s just a dull resignation that I will fuck this up somehow and hopefully not by inflicting too much pain on another. I can eviscerate a lover if I’m inclined but I generally have self control. I often attract others like myself and it’s interesting to see their behaviors from a similar perspective. It is truly a disorder though. “My love is vengeance that’s never free”.

And relationships are getting stranger as I age. Luckily I don’t need anyone and am not forced to abide with any. The good thing is some things are deleted from my memory banks. Which has been surprising to both myself and others when I have literally no recollection of a past date or friendship. Sometimes that’s a huge advantage to survival. Except the ones who injured my pride. These I remember always and sometimes recollect them and seethe in masochism and fantasies of revenge.

SeventhSense's avatar

@BoBo1946
It’s almost like an addiction. I’ve been truly in love and “had to leave”. The anxiety is unbearable. It’s a compulsion that is like a drug.

Coloma's avatar

Yeah, I think most hardcore narcissists should avoid relationships, but, they need the supply feed, even when they know they will screw things up ultimately, because they are incapable of sustaining any longterm level of satisfaction.

I have had one longterm relationship with a pathological N.

I have educated myself on the subject thoroughly, and have done my own work over the years. I am pleased to say the payoff is huge and I have succesfully avoided several other relationship situations with these types of men.

It was a lesson and education hard learned.

BoBo1946's avatar

@SeventhSense that is tough…Your comment, don’t need anyone. I can relate with that. Think that would be my attitude today. ...i’ve had too much drama in my life. Being alone is not all bad. What you wrote was well said and i can relate with everything you wrote.

BTW, my score was 12! So, my ex was wrong when she called me narcissist!

SeventhSense's avatar

@Coloma
Don’t make the often assumed error though that they are the victimizers and the others are victims though.
“The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,
And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.”
~Kahlil Gibran
This is a very deep truth.

BoBo1946's avatar

@Coloma think that might be me… my feelings about a relationship are almost, a good word, would be numb! I’ve been dating this girl for almost two years, but i don’t have the confidence, in myself, not her..to commit to marriage. Don’t think i ever will. And, down deep, think she knows that. Well, i’ve told her. Plus, I like living alone. Is that bad?

SeventhSense's avatar

@BoBo1946
The difference in my lack of commitment though, I hate to say it, is that no woman is good enough for me but I’ve played your role too.

BoBo1946's avatar

@SeventhSense actually, i would be the opposite. Low self esteem from years of abuse..loll..

also, bet their is a huge difference in our ages. I’m a young 63! lol That makes difference on committment.

Coloma's avatar

@SeventhSense

I agree. I played the co-dependant role and when I dared become a ‘real’ person instead of the maleable little ornament and adoring mirror, well..there was hell to pay.

Narcissistic rage is very unpleasant.

What about your role?

You say you have thoguhts of revenge and could have killed a few women…yet you most likely drove them to the edge of insanity through your unwellness.

My ex hates all blondes now, only dates brunettes…lololol

Why?

Because a hallmark of narcissism is lack of accountability, shifting the blame and feeling the victim of their own set up.

My ex hates blondes as he associates them with the woman that scorned him, he has zero comprehensian that he SET IT UP that way.

Twisted!

Dewey420's avatar

I love people who love themselves

BoBo1946's avatar

@Dewey420 understood, but that can be taken too far, as we know.

Coloma's avatar

@BoBo1946 @BoBo1946

Not at all. I feel the same, and if you are honest then she knows where you stand.

If she is harboring that old ‘he will change his mind ’ thing, well…that’s her problem. lol

It’s only bad when you lead someone on, and liking to live alone is something many of us come to cherish as we mature.

I alway’s joke now about the 20 acres, 2 houses and the picnic table in the middle.

I have emerged from my life lessons oh so wise…I love the age of wisdom.

SeventhSense's avatar

@Coloma
No I love all women. Although there was one who literally did end up in a psych ward for a little while. I’m always kind of surprised as I always go out of my way to send flowers etc. The other problem with an over abundance of “self regard” though is that it’s often rewarded in our world. Not surprising some of the greatest narcissists are screen idols, and rock stars etc.

BoBo1946's avatar

@Coloma ditto my friend. It just works better for me. Don’t mind dying alone at all. Besides, when it over, i want feel anything….loll

SeventhSense's avatar

@BoBo1946
Everyone dies alone.

BoBo1946's avatar

@SeventhSense i really enjoy being around women. They are very fascinating. Each one has something that catches my eye. And, it is not always about beauty. Personalities fascinate me.

True my friend…we do die alone.

Enjoyed the conversation, but way passed this old man’s bedtime.

Later my friend.

Goodnite @Coloma !

perspicacious's avatar

It causes difficult relationships.

Coloma's avatar

@SeventhSense

Yes, I have read that the two most likely ‘victims’ of narcisists are co-dependant types and the awful Borderline personality disorderd..( read: psycho, lol )

In my case I was a ‘victim’... a victim of the female programming that says give of yourself until there is nothing left. I attracted a very selfish man that read into this on a cellular level, until I ‘changed’. lol

I think a lot of the male/female issues have to do with the bullshit programming and screwed up expectations that came out of the 50’s, hollywood, fairy tales and other such nonsense…man have we been brainwashed…and man have I ever woken up! haha

Both sides still have a lot of healing work and defragging to deal with.

SeventhSense's avatar

@Coloma
My most meaningful and crazy, insane heated, passionate and loving relationship was with a codependent psycho. I don’t know what was more maddening. Her imagining that she could change me or me imagining I could make her leave.

SeventhSense's avatar

But I disagree that we can’t feel empathy. I have cried for many person’s pain or misfortune.

Dewey420's avatar

@SeventhSense “narcisists are co-dependant types and the awful Borderline personality disorder.”

Ok that’s just awesome.

Coloma's avatar

@Dewey420

Haha..that was me, talking to @SeventhSense , can get confusing huh? :-)

@SeventhSense

Oh yeah…my ex and I had amazing sex, just not much else. lol

Once he was dancing around the kitchen, ( he was so VAIN )...he was about 40 at the time.

He exclaimed he had the ass of a 10 year old boy…haha

I told him he had the mind of one too. lololol

DrasticDreamer's avatar

After reading all of these comments, I’m 99% sure that my ex is narcissistic.

johnnydohey's avatar

@KeithWilson, Narcissism isn’t bad at all, and stay away from any pseudo practices (psychiatry, psychology). They diagnosis people based on symptoms/behaviors while disregarding any medical testing that deem a person 100% physically healthy. Worry about yourself and less about someone’s feelings on what they might think. As along as you don’t hurt them physically, which is not what narcissism is all about, you are good to go. Don’t buy into all this liberal bullshit. Don’t feel ashamed to practice your free speech.

@DrasticDreamer, because an idea already occurred to him that Narcissism might be bad, therefore, my speculation is that it has to do with liberalism among many other factors which I won’t get into.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@johnnydohey “Liberal bullshit”? What, exactly, does any of this have to do with being liberal?

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

I agree and disagree.

NPD is a very severe disorder that wrecks carnage in the lives of those that try to have a ‘relationship’ with a non-person, an illusion.

Nothing worse than waking up to the fact you have never known someone and the mind fuck of that.

NPD is very real and very damaging to those that are fooled by the duplicity of the man behind the mask.

The world is full of these emotional con-artists and the damage they do is horrendous.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma, you find me some info that NPD is due to some physical abnormality and I will take back what I said. As far as I know, it’s the psychiatrist and psychologists that diagnosis this disorder, therefore, I’m not going to label someone insane because he/she has problems with relationships.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@johnnydohey How do you know he didn’t simply come to question it on his own? Just because someone questions something doesn’t mean the idea was implanted in that person’s head by outside influences. People think… It’s what we do. I think calling it “liberal bullshit” is a huge blanket statement.

johnnydohey's avatar

@DrasticDreamer, I believe I wrote, “my speculation”, never said it was the ultimate reason. Regardless, it’s my suggestion to him, to watch out for outside sources in their role of affecting free thinking.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

Clearly you are not at all familiar with the pathological side of this disorder.

There is not a physical que, it is a psychological disorder.

The sciences of the mind and personality are viable and very real inspite of your personal opinions that they serve no purpose.

The definition of any physch disorder is in the degree of dysfunction it causes the sufferer or those in contact with such.

You are sadly mistaken and ignorant of these issues and the healing professions.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma, a psychological disorder can’t be tested, it’s speculated upon. If I talk to myself, am I psychotic? If I throw/spread my feces all over my wall, am I psychotic? Why? Because it’s disruptive to someone else and possibly you? Here’s my diagnosis, everyone’s an asshole then, because they kill animals and eat them when there is plenty of fruit and herbage available.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@johnnydohey I see what you’re saying – and I completely agree that it’s good for people to question everything, to come to conclusions on their own, after a lot of deep thinking.

That said, and while I personally also believe that many people are diagnosed with disorders far too easily now, I don’t feel that all psychological disorders are made up.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

Come on…you are going waaay out on a limb here, and yes, if you throw your feces on a wall I’d say you have some sort of mental health issues, unless you are a chimpanzee or 2 years old.

I agree with @DrasticDreamer while there may be some snap diagnoses and I am all about free thinking, this does not discount the reality of some severely dysfunctional psyches.

You have opinions, I have experience, and experience trumps opinions which are nothing more than non-factual thought forms.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma wrote, “you throw your feces on a wall I’d say you have some sort of mental health issues, unless you are a chimpanzee or 2 years old.”

Key word here, “I’d say”. How easily you judge me because of something that disgusts you. What if that’s my fashion statement? What if I was a PHD professor? There are so many variables when you don’t have concrete evidence. It’s a persons mind for crying out loud!

If you judge your experiences the same way you just did my shit spreading example well then we have a serious problem here. You think I don’t have experiences? I have plenty. The question is, how do you know which variable plays a role that causes him/her to act that way? You can see his/her mind?

You ever seen grotesque art? Are you going to tell me this person is a psychopath that wishes to kill or engage in other acts of violence? I can act like an asshole if I want too, you might not like it, but that doesn’t make me crazy.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

Um…and what are you doing?

Discountung the mental health professions based on your opinions.

Sorry dude, but yeah…playing with or throwing feces is not part of a helathy persons behavior.

Yes, a persons mind is variable, sure, okay, I agree, but…there are certain variables that cross the line into dysfunction.

What IF you were a Phd professor…well….if you were, you wouldn’t be challenging the bulk of the mental health sciences.

Actually feces throwing and defecating in unusual places is a symptom of schizophrenia.

The variable doesn’t matter…if someone is acting in ways that are harmful to self or others it is a problem. End of story.

If you want to smear shit on your own walls all by yourself that’s your biz. If you insist on spreading it on mine you’re going to be evaluated for some problematic issues. lol

I suspect you are very young and in your belligerent phase…cool…but, you’re out of your league with me on this one my friend.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma, These aren’t opinions, these aren’t even my words. Far wiser people investigated and debunked this.

@Coloma wrote, “Sorry dude, but yeah…playing with or throwing feces is not part of a healthy persons behavior.”

See, now this would be an opinion of yours. Everything goes by evidence as I’m sure you know that, not personal distastes.

@Coloma wrote, “Yes, a persons mind is variable, sure, okay, I agree, but…there are certain variables that cross the line into dysfunction.”

Evidence. Variables have to be proven. The mind cannot. We do not guess if the world is flat or round anymore.

@Coloma wrote, “Actually feces throwing and defecating in unusual places is a symptom of schizophrenia.”

Schizophrenia can be seen through PET/MRI scans. It’s a physical abnormality. This would be a medical example of evidence.

@Coloma wrote, ”“The variable doesn’t matter…if someone is acting in ways that are harmful to self or others it is a problem. End of story.”

Problem for you not for them. End of story.

@Coloma wrote, “If you want to smear shit on your own walls all by yourself that’s your biz. If you insist on spreading it on mine you’re going to be evaluated for some problematic issues. lol”

That’s good, now you see my point. If I smear it on my wall, it’s my business, doesn’t make me psychotic. If I want to smear it on your wall, doesn’t make me psychotic either, I enjoy smearing shit as a fashion statement on my spare time. I just don’t value your given rights of privacy. I would go to jail for breaking the law but not be deemed ill.

@Coloma wrote, “I suspect you are very young and in your belligerent phase…cool…but, you’re out of your league with me on this one my friend.”

Speculations are fine, I don’t think I’m in any belligerent phase, thanks for your OPINION though. I’m not out of your league, if I lacked evidence, or even logical rebuttals, then I would be out of your league.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

So we agree to disagree on most points.

Except for the part about someones harmful behavior towards another not being a problem.

Yes, it is a problem.

Sociopathic behavior doesn’t show up on PET/MRI scans, doesn’t change a thing when it comes time to face the consequences of illicit and unwell behaviors.

I’m done…enjoy your artistic expression, hope you stay out of jail, no artwork opportunities there in the medium you prefer.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma wrote, “I suspect you are very young and in your belligerent phase…cool…but, you’re out of your league with me on this one my friend.”

Just something to add, you realize you already set a few labels on me, just by the few conversations that we had. All of a sudden you suspect I’m young, I’m in a belligerent phase, and out of your league. You just made a perfect point of what psychiatry and psychology do. Baseless speculation because I rubbed you the wrong way, or you felt some sort of distaste toward me. Can’t label me ill for such things..

@Coloma wrote, “Sociopathic behavior doesn’t show up on PET/MRI scans, doesn’t change a thing when it comes time to face the consequences of illicit and unwell behaviors.”

If it doesn’t show up on the PET/MRI scans, then how do you know he/she is sociopathic? I can’t be angry or sad? That’s why we have laws, to protect the innocent when someone takes his/her anger out on someone. Doesn’t mean he/she has instability of the mind.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

Um no, not baseless speculation, trained insight and attention based on presentation.

You can be angry or sad, but you cannot kill people, beat them up, smear crap on their cars or run over their dog.

And yes it does mean instability of mind. Mentally healthy people know how to control their impulses. Menatlly healthy people are not violent.

I’m done with your nonsense.

Goodnight Johnny boy.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma wrote, “Um no, not baseless speculation, trained insight and attention based on presentation.”

I think you are scaring me now more then the psychiatrist and psychologists. I’m glad you don’t practice either. How do you know your “insight and attention based on presentation” is perfect? There is no chance of misdiagnosis? Are you telepathic? What is it that you are diagnosing anyways? My mind which you can’t see or test? Therefore, you diagnose me based on how I comment in this thread? Do you suppose I need therapy and pills now, to repair your diagnosis of me, that I’m in a “belligerent phase”? What gave it away? My evidence and logic to support my comments? My correct spelling and grammatical writing? My neutral, respectful, and non-violent behavior? Or is it perhaps exactly what I said it is, baseless speculation on your part? What about the X amount of possibilities that you’re ill? I can diagnose you also. I asked you for evidence to support your argument fore when you said that there is such a thing as psychological disorders. What did you do instead? Throughout our conversation, the evidence you presented was “i feel” “I’d say”, this sounds like your personal, speculative opinions to me? This is how you label and feed me medication, all because you “feel” and “say”? You didn’t argue my points, you simply labeled me as a misinformed, misguided boy (assumed I’m a boy too), or haven’t given me examples of how you diagnose someones mind or test it, other then “I’d say” or “feel” that it’s wrong and harmful.

@Coloma wrote, “You can be angry or sad, but you cannot kill people, beat them up, smear crap on their cars or run over their dog.”

You are absolutely right, you can’t. I never said you could. I said this doesn’t make one psychotic due to lack of testing of the mind and X amount of variables.

@Coloma wrote, And yes it does mean instability of mind. Mentally healthy people know how to control their impulses. Mentally healthy people are not violent.

Again, give me an example on how to test the mind for insanity? How do you know the reason? Here’s an easy diagnosis, an example that I gave before of what you do. “I think that killing and eating animals is psychotic, when there is plenty of fruits and herbage, yet everyone does it? War is psychotic, murdering through revenge for a victim of murder, is psychotic, yet it’s not, it’s all justified, except revenge, you go to jail for that one, but how am I going to prove that the mind is unstable, because I “feel”, “say” it so? I can say he/she was extremely pissed because justice wasn’t done for his daughter death, so he went to kill the murder to avenge her death, justice served, through violence. Pissed is just one example, there is X more, which you will never know, therefore, “feel”, “say” psychotic diagnosis is purely speculative.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

There is always the chance for misdiagnosis of mental/emotional problems, just like there is a chance of the same in all medical fields.

I am not attempting to diagnose anything, just sharing some astute observations.

Mental issues do not show up on an xray like a broken bone, but there are plenty of diagnostic methods for determining certain conditions and yes, tests.

A mechanic can diagnose a particular noise in a vehicle and based on experience with that particular noise can make an accurate diagnosis of the cars problem.

Not every problem shows up on a diagnostic, doesn’t mean they don’t exsist.

A trained mental health professional can do the same. Nothing is infallible of course, but, possibility vs. probability. The vehicle that is blowing smoke lends itself to a list of conditions that cause smoke blowing. A mechanic can then make an educated guess as to the most likey causes of a smoke blowing condition.

It is called profiling, based upon many years of research that shows the propensity of certain traits and behaviors that are most LIKELY to indicate particular issues.

Based on my experience and knowledge, I get a sense of the typical rebellious young persons attitude, the shock value of extreme art, shit smearing, glorifying your right to be an asshole, discounting and arguing against a science that has it’s proper and valuable place. These behaviors are part of a younger persons drive to differentiate and establish their independence of thought and action.

I have no idea if I am correct, but based on what I see and my life experience/knowledge It is an educated guess based on how you present yourself.

I am no stranger to the fascination of the 20 somethings ( I have a 22 yr. old daughter who has turned me on to more than I ever needed to know lol ) amusement with excretement, the 2 girls one cup scene…ho hum….not any different than any other generations attempts at individuation and the shock value of extremism as a vehicle for such.

Every generation has it’s example. There is nothing new under the sun as the saying goes.

I never said being angry made someone psychotic either, I did say a healthy person does not exhibit harmful anger towards others.

Everything from cancer to mental illness is measured by degree.

Of course you can do whatever you want, but there are consequences, and, it is true, that one whose mental and emotional development is on a healthy progressive track would not find themselves killing anyone except in the most extreme cases of self defense.

That is not opinion that is fact.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma wrote, “A mechanic can diagnose a particular noise in a vehicle and based on experience with that particular noise can make an accurate diagnosis of the cars problem.”

I see, so you are comparing the complexity of a human being that contains reasoning skills and emotions to a vehicle?

@Coloma wrote, “A trained mental health professional can do the same. Nothing is infallible of course, but, possibility vs. probability. The vehicle that is blowing smoke lends itself to a list of conditions that cause smoke blowing. A mechanic can then make an educated guess as to the most likely causes of a smoke blowing condition.It is called profiling, based upon many years of research that shows the propensity of certain traits and behaviors that are most LIKELY to indicate particular issues.”

Again, as I wrote to the previous line, you are comparing a human beings reasoning skill and emotions to that of a car? Also, you can misdiagnose a car more then one time until it’s fixed, but not with humans. When you misdiagnose someone, which happens quite often due the probability guess, you end up destroying the structure that was working fine to begin with. It’s irreversible, in fact, the new heavier dosage, or a different form of medication, makes conditions even worse, if they are unhelpful. Furthermore, do you understand that you, the psychiatrist, and the psychologist, are setting standards of what is considered “normal” and “abnormal” mental health? What do you base these normal standards on? Yourself? The general public? If everyone was doing the same “normal” routine, we wouldn’t have an Einstein (for example). Those that stood out were considered “not normal”. A human being is way to complex when compared to a car. There is no such thing as probabilities. As I said, I can be married, kids, PHD professor, yet I enjoy talking to myself, and smearing shit on the walls. To you, the psychiatrist, and the psychologist, it feels that I’m displayed behavior of a categorical textbook standard of what you set to be considered “normal” and abnormal” behaviors. Thus, since I smear shit and talk to myself, I’m must be a psychopath, because the signs are there. The truth is, it’s personal distaste that you, the psychiatrist, and psychologist have, therefore, you set such standards because you feel and say it’s wrong. Profiling? Let me show you the problem in doing so. Take black people for example. They can be considered formidable creatures because they take up 13% of the population yet cause 60% of the crimes? Average IQ among them is at 80. Therefore, chances are, when you see a black person doing something that fits the profile, he/she must be arrested immediately and be considered primitive of the mind. That seems something right to do?

@Coloma wrote, “Based on my experience and knowledge, I get a sense of the typical rebellious young persons attitude, the shock value of extreme art, shit smearing, glorifying your right to be an asshole, discounting and arguing against a science that has it’s proper and valuable place. These behaviors are part of a younger persons drive to differentiate and establish their independence of thought and action. I have no idea if I am correct, but based on what I see and my life experience/knowledge It is an educated guess based on how you present yourself.”

It’s a poor misdiagnosis on your part. You would of been more correct in speculating that it was an educated critique since evidence and logic was displayed. However, what’s stopping me from speculating on your mental behavior? We can both call each other X, doesn’t make it so.

@Coloma wrote, “healthy person does not exhibit harmful anger towards others”.

He/she is healthy. They are using their emotions to reach a goal. If the intellectual part didn’t think an thoroughly, that doesn’t make it psychotic, it makes it a poor judgment call due to lack of thinking it through and life experience or X other reasons.

@Coloma wrote, “Of course you can do whatever you want, but there are consequences, and, it is true, that one whose mental and emotional development is on a healthy progressive track would not find themselves killing anyone except in the most extreme cases of self defense. That is not opinion that is fact.”

I disagree, opinion more likely.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

I am not calling you anything, if you wish to split hairs, fine, we’ll call my observations an educated critique, a critique which you do not deny, so points for honesty.

You disagree because you are more invested in argument for the sake of argument.

Do your own research, don’t take my word for it.

If you are unable to wrap your mind around basic psychological theories and truths you certainly are not capable of graduating into a discussion of psycho-spiritual connectivity which is the next developmental level beyond psychological integration.

So, we agree to disagree, there is no productivity in continuing to engage in a circular loop.

Happy day to you.

johnnydohey's avatar

@Coloma wrote, “we’ll call my observations an educated critique, a critique which you do not deny, so points for honesty.”

No, I said instead of you diagnosing me as misinformed, misguided teenager, in a belligerent phase, you would have been more accurate in your speculation if you diagnosed me as a person who knows what he/she is talking about due to the fact that I presented evidence and logic my arguments.

@Coloma wrote, “You disagree because you are more invested in argument for the sake of argument.”

You are now being dismissive. If I lacked evidence and logic, then I would be arguing for the sake of arguing. I don’t argue anything without backings.

@Coloma wrote, “Do your own research, don’t take my word for it.”

I did, hence, the display of evidence and logic I presented through my arguments towards you.

@Coloma wrote, “If you are unable to wrap your mind around basic psychological theories and truths you certainly are not capable of graduating into a discussion of psycho-spiritual connectivity which is the next developmental level beyond psychological integration.”

Yet another speculation, after all I presented to you and called you out on? Fine, I can be dismissive too. I think you don’t know what the heck you are talking about. I further think that you act upon the distastes you experience towards another, without any rationale, but rather purely speculations. I can’t say that I agree to disagree, because I don’t, as I feel you are wrong and I’m right, but it seems like we don’t have a choice here, as you pointed out. In that case, a happy day to you as well.

Coloma's avatar

@johnnydohey

You have presented zero evidence, only a mirror of what you have projected onto me, mere speculation, without any true knowledge of the mind sciences, and… if you wish to talk about dismissiveness, well…pot/kettle.

But..now we get to the nitty gritty of the matter, your need to be right, which takes us full circle back to the topic at hand.

So you don’t agree to disagree because you are certain of your rightness, fine…but we do agree on mutual dismissal. lol

Fluther on.

SeventhSense's avatar

@johnnydohey
And what was your score?

anartist's avatar

@Coloma do you consider yourself to be a co-dependent personality or a borderline personality? Why do you call ‘borderline’ so awful? All three are classified as personality disorders in APA’s DSMIV – dependent personality disorder,borderline personality disorder,narcissistic personality disorder

Coloma's avatar

@anartist

Neither.

I am healthier than ever this last decade.

Wisdom, maturity and a good understanding of a lot of what plagues people in their journies to mental and emotional health.

I WAS co-dependent once upon a time many years ago in a marriage to a narcissistic alcoholic.

Co-dependency is not related to dependent PD

A horse of a different color entirely.

I call Borderline awful because I have known several Borderline types that were very emotionally unstable and wreaked havoc in their interpersonel relationships.

I spent a lot of time researching and coming to understand the nature of mental &emotional
health when leaving my dysfunctional marriage years ago now, along with a year in therapy which was very validating at the time.

SeventhSense's avatar

Narcissism is like this.

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