Have you seen When Mitt Romney Came to Town? What do you think of it?

Wow. thanks for sharing that. When it was over, I was shocked to see ads for Newt popping up. I know it was paid for by a PAC but I didn’t realize that it was a PAC that supported Newt.

Interesting story. Unfortunately there is no information that would explain, good or bad what happened. It is merely a compilation of personal stories about plant closings that would be exactly the same for every business closing regardless of ownership or time in history.

I can’t help but wonder if it was Toys R Us that caused the failure of KB Toys rather than Bain. Totally different business models. the Toys R Us model worked and drove KB out of business. Not an uncommon story. I look at Unimac (I think that’s right), they made commercial washers and dryers. A few decades ago laundromats were everywhere. They’ve mostly gone the way of the buggy whip. The local Laundromat is all but gone and when you do find one it is old and run down. So if you have huge manufacturing plants and a shrinking market, how do you handle that, Downsize. Sometimes downsizing will work other times you have to shut the door. This is not a situation that Bain created.

Generally, Bain took over companies that were already in trouble. Bian didn’t create the trouble, it was already there. I’ve been through a company shut down that was the result of a changing marketplace. It isn’t easy but technology moves on whether you keep up with it or not. Much like Kodak, if you don’t anticipate the new direction early enough, the window closes and your business, no matter how big, will fail. Once the trouble sets in, saving the company is difficult. So is it the fault of the company that didn’t see the changes coming or the fault of the Private Equity that bought and tried to save the company. Either way the failure is the same, and the stories of lost livelihood will be the same.

The truth is, I have no axe to grind here. But I do find the video very misleading and mainly a play on your emotions. It would seem that if you want to denigrate Bain, you should provide some real data to back up the claims. Here is an article that actually discusses this video and the companies involved. A very different story when you look at the details.

@Jaxk , even if I were to accept the idea that the businesses were doomed anyway, the idea that he falsely inflated their value to lure investors, then bailed is an immoral bastardization of the system. Even if the workers were going to lose their jobs anyway, the investors were lured into thinking they were buying something of value, while what he was really doing was creating false value to lure investors, borrowing against any assets, then cutting and running and watching everyone crumble in his wake. He may have thought it was a fun game with a high payoff, but ordinary people were hurt while he ran off with the profits.

(@Jaxk, By the way, I own apartments and still buy laundry equipment. )

@Judi

I didn’t say the market went away only that it was a shrinking market. And you obviously didn’t read the details of what happened since these companies didn’t go away they only downsized. In fact UniMac is still going strong in thier new location in Wisconsin. One of the many fallacies of the video posted.

Bain bought businesses. Some of the businesses were stronger than others. Some of the businesses they tried to operate & ended up running them into the ground. Then the businesses were closed, people lost their jobs, they lost their benefits, etc. The link below is for one such operation that Bain ran into the ground & closed it. It cost 740 people their jobs & this was a company that had been in business for over 110 years, but it only took Bain 7 years to run it into the ground.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/06/us-campaign-romney-bailout-idUSTRE8050LL20120106

@Linda_Owl

It’s hard to tell exactly what caused the bankruptcy. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say Bain ran it into the ground and closed it. The steel industry was going through hard times. In fact 44 other steel mills went bankrupt during this period. Bain invested millions in plant upgrades to get the business competitive. The Union went on strike for 2½ months while the business was struggling to survive. It is quite likely that the steel mill would have gone belly up regardless of anything Bain did and more likely sooner.

The complaints from the workers are typical of any company that gets bought out and they bring in new management. I’m not saying there’s no validity to the complaints but just that it is typical. New management will try to bring in new processes and the old crew will resist them. The new management will make mistakes and the old crew will criticize that as well. If a company is having trouble sticking with the old processes and old management isn’t the way to fix it.

The steel industry went through some hard times during the late 80s and 90s. A lot of the steel industry disappeared. Trying to save this company was risky at best. It failed and that is a shame.

@Judi Thanks. Yes, it was funded by Newt’s SuperPAC. How far the Republican party has fallen from the days of their God, Ronald Reagan’s 11th commandment, “Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.” But if no Republican SuperPAC had put up the money for production of the documentary, Obama;s SuperPAC most certainly would have.,

@Jaxk I am l;ike you, I woulds like to know the back story. Unfortunately, you and I are not representative of the target audience. The Industry on Parade approach would only play to a tiny audience, and would be useless for a political argument.

I strongly disagree that the reactions of workers would be the same regardless of why their plant closed. Sure, the workers who lost jobs, homes, livelihoods, etc would be equally devastated if their company was a buggy whip manufacturer and the horesless carriage came along. But they would not have the same feeling of rage at the new system where vulture capitalists like Romney swoop down to gut a business and feast on its parts. They see their jobs gone, their homes repossessed, their kids having to rack up massive debt to get a college education and they see the corporate raider pocket 1$100 million for bankrupting their company and forever shuttering its doors. There is no comparison in the feelings of thesee tow different reasons for losing a job.

I would truly love to see an analysis of all Bain’s activities while Romney was its CEO. I’d love to see an honest assessment of their impact on jobs. It’s beyond clear, however, that Romney is lying when he boasts he’s created more jobs than President Obama. He was abysmal in job creation while governor of Massachusetts, and even if we give him his figure of 100,000 jobs at Bain, which is clearly a wild exaggeration, that’s 100,000 jobs over a period from 1984 to 1990, and again from 1992 to 1999. That’s 13 years, so even with his exaggerated job numbers, that leaves him creating a little over 7,000 jobs a year. If we are generous to Obama and allow him his 3.5 million private sector job claim, that’s over 1,000,000 per year. Even with the conservative estimates of the CBO and investigative reporters, Obama created 2.4 million jobs in 2 years. So Romney’s flat out lying when he claims to have bettered Obama’s record.

Also, it is perfectly clear that most of the businesses Romney wrecked were not doomed. THat isn’t the sort of business Vulture Capitalists look for. They want businesses that have cash in their general fund and pension fund, and real estate or capital equipment assets that can be looted. THey want operations that are reasonable successful. THey fire workers, slee capital equipment and thus spike the apparent profitability of the company so they can sell it at an inflated price before all the debt acquired as they looted the firm catches up with the company, and it either struggles through reorganization or closes its doors forever, leaving the taxpayers to cover the worker’s pensions with the Federal Pension Insurance Program.

@Linda_Owl Bain began its existence in 1984 as a venture capital firm. They were very cautious at first, and made little in the way of investments. The one hoime run they hit during this period was Staples. The firm had one store when Bain put up capital for them to expand, and ended up with 2,000 stores. The 100,0000 jobs Romney claims to have created came from Staples. Of course, nobody has bothered to count the jobs lost when thousands of Ma and Pa office supply companies around the country closed; unable to compete with the massive purchasing power of Staples. Chances are the net effect was job losses and not job creation at all. Shortly after Staples, Romney refocused the firm on Vulture Capitalism, because the profits from that sort of business are almost beyond belief and are turned is weeks or months, not decades.

@ETpro

You’re right in that the accusations are quick and easy. Generally require little information, are highly emotional, and are bracketed by bumper sticker slogans like ‘Vulture Capitalist’. The response is complex and lengthy. Few are willing to listen. Private Equity is never the first choice. A company will only go there if they can not get financing any other way. It’s expensive and you lose control of the company. In other words a company that is in financial trouble.

I’ve been looking for the scenario you describe but haven’t seen an example of Bain buying a company and breaking it up to sell the parts. Even @Linda_Owl ‘s example took the best part of a decade to complete and Bain spent millions to upgrade plant and equipment before closing the doors. Not exactly a quick in and out. Certainly not the ‘Weeks or Months’ you tout.

The jobs claim, I would agree is a bit misleading but just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s a lie. Since Obama took office we have lost 4.3 million jobs. Even with the jobs created we still have a deficit of about 1.6 million jobs. That may not be a fair measure but those are the numbers. You may not like it, but his claim is not a lie.

I saw the film, yesterday. The worst thing is that everything that Romney did was legal. That is disturbing and must be changed. There is nothing wrong with investors stepping in an attempt to save a failing company. The idea of buying a successful company and loading it with debt to pay investor dividends is immoral, should be illegal, and is definitely un-American. The fact that he lead such a company, should immediately disqualify him for president and open him up to congressional hearings aimed and solving the problem.
Romney should be testifying, not leading.

@Jaxk Bain Capital’s GS Technologies investment that @Linda_Owl cites is not a representative example. Bain did in fact try for a time to make a go of that business. In many instances, their acquisitions were pure Vulture Capitalism. There are examples where they bought firms for $5 million, made $100 million in profits, and destroyed all the jobs, leaving the company bankrupt and the taxpayers on the hook to make good on the pension fund they looted. But even in the GS Technologies case, in driving the company into bankruptcy, Bain made made a profit of 150% of their initial investment. And US taxpayers were mad at AIG for handing our million dollar bonuese to executives that wrecked that company? How about $100 million dollar bonuses for destruction derby capitalism. Here is a bit deeper picture of what Bain actually did with GS Technologies.

Yes, it’s all legal. That is because the fat cats like Romney and his Bain Capital buddies have bribed Congress to make highway robery legal, just as long as you steal fifty or a hundred million dollars. Stealing small amounts still gets you jail time.

The job losses since Obama took office are all thanks to George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan’s policies. He has turned the corner on the bleeding, but blaming him for the problem is as anachronistic as claiming FDR caused all the bob losses of the Great Depression.

@ETpro GA!

@ETpro

I find it interesting that you would think this was a profitable company. When Armco sold the unit to Bain they took a $205 million write-off to cover the losses from that division. Frankly, I’m surprised that Bain tried to save it. I would have closed the doors in 1993 and sold off the parts. It sounds like the classic loser that needs major upgrades and can’t compete (even with the upgrades) with cheap Asian imports. Kinda like Solyndra.

As far as the job creation numbers, I don’t have a problem with the adjustments you want to make. I do have a problem with calling someone a liar, just because they don’t make the same adjustments you do. It has nothing to do with who caused the job losses, only that they occurred on his watch. You are obviously much more concerned with placing blame than I am. Just like the Steel Mill, it is much more likely that the Cheap Asian steel caused the plant closure than anything else. But instead, we need to have someone to blame.

@Jaxk You aren’t talking to a dolt, you know. Losses are tax write-offs. They carry over for year to year. Corporations selling a unit load it with all the debt they can if it’s losing money and they need cash, and take the biggest loss they can get. In highly profitable years, they buy companies near bankruptcy just to acquire assets and use the debt as a tax hedge all in one fell swoop. Capitalism is broken by a series of policies that make extraction more profitable than creation.

I grant you the steel industry in the US was in decline. Bain wasn’t exactly clueless about that. They turned a 150% profit on killing the dying beast. Woopee for capitalism.

In tonight’s South Carolina debate, Romney made Republican hypocrisy and lying on capitalism abundantly clear. He claimed that vulture capitalism, venture capitalism and individual entrepreneurship are all capitalism and all capitalism is good, which is a bald-faced lie. He then went on to claim that Obama only embraces crony capitalism, another bald faced lie, and one that makes a lie of his claim that all capitalism is good. You can;t have it both ways. I know Mitt has tried to have it both ways on every issue under the sun, but it’s still called flip-flopping.