General Question

flo's avatar

Why are Bertuzzi et al and Bill Maher (et al?) not charged with premeditated x and premeditated y?

Asked by flo (7794 points ) August 22nd, 2014

At another OP there was a post that said we need evidence to charge/arrest anyone with anything. This OP was my response (as an aside) but it was removed (off-topic).
If all that is needed is evidence, the evidence is there on the screen that Bertuzzi and others who assault premeditatedly, and Bill Maher who works hard to get people on drugs, send them to their death even, all in the name of comedy. article

“If one child anywhere in this nation falls prey to this Monday, I sincerely hope Maher and HBO are held responsible.”

So why don’t they get charged?

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23 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

Bill Maher who works hard to get people on drugs, send them to their death even, all in the name of comdey
If we go by that logic, I should report you to the cops for defamation.

zenvelo's avatar

Because it’s a joke, and any reasonable adult know’s he was joking around.

And, you obviously didn’t listen to or read the whole thing.

And Bertuzzi was in a hockey fight. You play hockey, you expect to be in fights. There is no criminal liability there.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Probable cause, for one, and criminal nexus for the other.

But it’s a free country, and people are free to advocate anything they want, no matter how crazy.

syz's avatar

What?!?

lillycoyote's avatar

Because it’s a joke, no crime has been committed and, even if a crime had been committed, at least in the U.S. people are considered to be responsible for their own crimes; their own actions. I a parent were to put drugs in his or her children’s candy the parent would be responsible for the crime. You should have learned the last one by the time you were 8, when your mom says “If Johnny told you to jump off a bridge would you jump off a bridge?”

There is a crime of incitement I guess but it’s pretty narrowly drawn and this kind of thing is very, very far from rising to that level.

flo's avatar

@ragingloli It must be either he never said anything about it, or he actually tries to help people to quit drugs or to never start to begin with. That is why it would be defamation right?

@zenvelo same as above re, Maher
Re. hockey not true pleanty of hockey is played without fighting. But that is neither here nor there. No one should have to expect to be involved or “forced” forced to fight.
@elbanditoroso That is defence lawyer talk.
@lillycoyote “but it’s pretty narrowly drawn and this kind of thing is very, very far from rising to that level” defence lawyer talk

lillycoyote's avatar

Fighting is actually a strategy in hockey. Here’s an example. And if you look at the picture Bertuzzi is taking the hit that time.

lillycoyote's avatar

@flo not defense lawyer talk. !. In a country where free speech is protected these things have to be narrowly, carefully and clearly draw or else there would be too much room for abuse, if people could be arrested for simply talking about something, suggesting something or thinking about something. No crime has been committed by either of these men and even the crimes that Mahar talks about haven’t been committed. There is no evidence of a crime. It is not a crime to talk about committing a crime, wanting to commit a crime, suggesting someone commit a crime. No crime has occurred therefore no one can be charged with a crime. Even a fight at a hockey game is generally mutual combat rather than an assault.

Additionally, “premedited” refers to whether or not a crime was planned in advance, but there still has to be a crime and I think, but I’m not sure, that premeditation is only a factor in murder. Premeditation makes a murder a 1st degree murder.

rexacoracofalipitorius's avatar

Because you have not filed a criminal complaint against either of them. If you think these people should be prosecuted for these perceived “crimes”, then it’s on you to take the appropriate action. Good luck with that.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Saying “that’s a defense lawyer statement” so dismissively tells me that you are making a populist point and have no respect for the rule of law and legal process.

Sure, you want to make wild accusations that smear others. I get that. But we live in a world where laws are in force for both sides of the argument.

From my point of view, you’re saying things to incite people – just like you are accusing Maher of doing – but you are unwilling to acknowledge the framework in which we live.

Buttonstc's avatar

Uhhhm…did you happen to notice the date on this? It was two years ago. Obviously no one was stupid enough to follow Maher’s facetious advice or it certainly would have made the news big time.

Are you totally oblivious of the real point he was making albeit satirically?

Too many of this nation’s kids are already on drugs (and at surprisingly young ages) and apparently no one recognizes the crime in that.

I’m not saying that there aren’t legitimate uses for medication with a severely ADHD child.

But way too many kids are supposedly in that severe category. There is almost no advice to try the LESS potentially harmful ways of dealing with a childs hyperactivity (such as good old
behavior modification) before putting th on speed. That’s what Riralin and a lot of those
drugs do.

And then we wonder why they end up as addicts later on.

He is making a very value point by satirically suggesting that parents put the drugs directly into the candy since they’re already taking a boatload of crap already. But as long as it’s labeled a prescription, that magically makes it all right.

Yeah I don’t think so.

But obviously there was not a sudden rash of drugged candy two years ago. People recognized satire for what it was.

It’s a shame that the author of that website is so busy pushing his agenda that he is so totally humor deficient that he can’t even recognize satire when it’s plain as the nose on his face. Yeesh.

(you might want to add in some websites with a more balanced viewpoint. I mean, last week it was the nutbar Alex Jones putting out biased innacurate and xenophobic info
about Ebola and now there’s this guy ranting about suing someone for obvious satire. Please consider my advice to get a better variety of
websites with some objectivity in your bookmarks. That will help to balance out the nutjobs.)

Bill1939's avatar

Many people have problems with the concept of Political Correctness. @flo seems to be advocating that it be extended to include any public statement referring to illegal drugs and, I presume, sex, homosexuality, same sex marriage and anything else that might be deemed objectionable by one of the many Christian religions. Should @flo‘s view become the law of the land, we will have politically moved to the equivalence of sharia law.

Regarding Bertuzzi and the propensity for violent behavior in hockey and most other sports, people like it. They would be disappointed if existing laws against assault were applied. Public attendance would be reduced to the level seen at Bocci Ball games and the incomes generated for team owners, vendors and other merchants, hotels, restaurants and anyone else whose livelihood depends on filling stadium seats, as well as taxes collected by city, state and federal governments, would end.

Think of the entertainment presented in the Roman Coliseum, or that of the Incas who played something like basketball with the human heads, or the pleasure people derived from watching the Aztec high priest cut out a beating heart as the blood flowed down the temple steps. Everywhere in human history people attended violent exhibitions. The human race has not lost its lust for blood, and there always to be those who will seek to profit from it.

dappled_leaves's avatar

“If one child anywhere in this nation falls prey to this Monday, I sincerely hope Maher and HBO are held responsible.”

So why don’t they get charged?

1. No child “fell prey” to this act of satire.
2. There was no crime for anyone to be charged with.
3. Whether “premeditation” was a factor in a crime, as others have pointed out, only relates to murder. No murder was committed.

@Buttonstc Uhhhm…did you happen to notice the date on this? It was two years ago.

I think @flo has wanted Bill Maher behind bars, for one bizarre reason or another, for a lot longer than two years. Ironically, I’d be willing to bet that they are actually in agreement on most issues (I disagree here with @Bill1939). I don’t mean pot legalization, obviously.

elbanditoroso's avatar

If I could give you a +100 great answers, @dappled_leaves , I would.

Where’s the crime?

flo's avatar

Please prove that
@dappled_leaves @__ flo has wanted Bill Maher behind bars, for one bizarre reason or another, for a lot longer than two years.
Ironically, I’d be willing to bet that they are actually in agreement on most issues

We are not referring to pot legalization, just consumption and selling re. your I don’t mean pot legalization, obviously.

El_Cadejo's avatar

Me thinks you missed Bill Maher’s point entirely.

flo's avatar

@Bill1939 “Should @flo‘s view become the law of the land, we will have politically moved to the equivalence of sharia law. ” Is that similar to
“George Bush’s Either you’re with us or with the terrorists”? I’m not sure.

@Buttonstc “agenda that he is so totally humor deficient that he can’t even recognize satire when it’s plain as the nose on his face. Yeesh.” Or maybe he is not sheeple?

­@dappled_leaves how do you know if no child (or adult) fell prey to his quote unquote “satire”? If there was nothing in the news that means it didn’t happen?

By the way of course that link is the only time he referred to drugs right? Of course. Never did he glamorize it, never did he say something about preferring 50 Sammy days…..Lame lame lame.

Buttonstc's avatar

@flo

Do you honestly think that if there were even ONE case of some idiot dosing Halloween candy and using Maher as a defense that it wouldn’t make the news both in the US as wellas worldwide? Come on, get real.

It didn’t happen simply because people listening to his
comments in THEIR
ENTIRETY realized the main point he was trying to make. He doesn’t want kids on more drugs. His assertion is that they’re already on way too many drugs ALREADY. But because these drugs are pushed by the pharmaceutical industry, they’re considered “safe” or harmless” and “good” by most Americans.

So, save yourself the money and just put pot in the candy.

It’s called SARCASM. And in this case, it’s sarcasm to make a point that our kids are overdrugged already. Just stop being fooled because these drugs have a prescription label on the container. It doesn’t make them any less dangerous.

BTW: I certainly don’t swallow everything Maher says uncritically. His basic outlook on most things is way too cynical for me to be in agreement with.

But, as a teacher, I’ve watched with dismay the increasing tendency to over-Medicate students for problems with far simpler and less potentially harmful solutions. It’s very often a lazy way of dealing with the situation. Just pop a pill in the kid’s mouth rather than find out the root cause of the behavior. That’s the real crime.

rexacoracofalipitorius's avatar

@Buttonstc Thanks for trying, but @flo is never, ever going to get it. Maher is on the Other Team and is therefore Evil and Hates Our Freedom.

Bill1939's avatar

@flo asked “Is that similar to ‘George Bush’s Either you’re with us or with the terrorists’? I’m not sure.” It is somewhat similar. The underlying premise seems to be that there is only one kind of American, conservative Christian heterosexuals. The rest, from their point of view, are anti-American liberal/ socialist/ communist/ homosexual/ terrorist supporters.

flo's avatar

Everyone, you didn’t address something from my last post: Please post the link of the stand up routine where he says “give me 50 Sammy days,...” as well as
(in the same routine) the government taxes cigarettes, therefore that means smoking is okay I guess that is the logic? The link would help your arguement how that is just satire against prescription drugs, or fast food, or fill in the blank.

@Buttonstc “Do you honestly think that if there were even ONE case of some idiot dosing Halloween candy and using Maher as a defense that it wouldn’t make the news both in the US as wellas worldwide?
Embarrasement would keep the parent from confessing what she/he did. If they were found out, My naughty kid just somehow managed to find it from where I was hiding it for my own use. or something like that. There is rape victims who don’t report it or and fraud victims who don’t report things, because of shame, not everything makes the news

Buttonstc's avatar

@flo

This is getting really tiresome. Don’t you bother even listening to the clip of his routine in the link which YOU YOURSELF POSTED?

And the exact transcript, WORD FOR WORD EXACTLY, is written directly below it.

How do you think I figures out he was being sarcastic about the crapload of drugs that kids are ALREADY ON. and he lists them, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Abilify and Monster Energy Drinks.

Did you think I just pulled it out of my ass or something? It’s right there in plain English. Do you have a problem reading it. The first two paragraphs of the direct transcript makes my point for me.

If you don’t want people getting totally exasperated with you, try listening to or reading the very links you post before challenging people to provide it for you.

This is the kind of crap that leaves me with a desire to just take a long long vacation from attempting to interact with you on anymore of your questions.

Yeesh and double Yeesh.

READ AND LISTEN TO YOUR OWN DAMN LINKS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

flo's avatar

@Buttonstc You’re stuck on this link. Let’s just say I am out to lunch, and the link ( the candy one) doesn’t try to confuse the issue at all, (let’s say I’m just seeing things) what about the “Give me 50 Sammy years…? How about other videos of his where he shows (satirically, or not) how dumb it is to do drugs. Please?

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