Right after this horrible school shooting is this something you would want to hear?

No. He should have said nothing. At least he didn’t offer his paternizing empty hopes and prayers. Sounds like he gave up on trying.

How about voting his piece of dog shit ass out of office! Along with those other pos Repukelican thugs.

His father wasn’t wrong, but if that person never has access to weapons that can blast through locked doors then at least, maybe there can be less victims. Throwing your hands up in the air and saying, Ce qui sera sera is a sad excuse for his failures.

Well of course they are not going to fix it, heaven forbid these people could access universal health care including mental health care without the fear of financial ruin.
Plus sensible gun laws,maybe less of these would happen.
But the Right are no way going for any kind of firearm law, and universal health care aint going to happen either so these shootings will continue.

I couldn’t believe this scumbag said this and right after this tragedy. His Christmas card has him his wife and all his kids holding assault weapons. go figure.

A sign of his upbringing and lack caring and most of all a LACK OF CLASS ! !

a quick GOP translation – - -send more cash and reelect me.

@Tropical_Willie I don’t know how they sleep at night. :(

^I imagine that they sleep like babies…

@MrGrimm888 I hope they wake up every hour crying and have colic !

^Don’t hold your breath. Politicians don’t have a conscience…
I am at the point where I don’t even want to know about this shit. It makes me physically ill, to think about it.

@Dig_Dug they sleep on a pile of money and enjoy being member GOP therefore a Supporter of the rich !

Nobody in the 1% GOT SHOT and killed !

Figure it out – - no impact on the the “rich and famous” !

I think I may need to see someone for my own mental health. I don’t know how much of this stuff I can take. This makes me nauseous and I’ve cried way too much the last two days already..

While I agree it sounds callous, what he is saying isn’t wrong. I know there is always outcry for gun control laws after events like this. But what law are you going to pass that will suddenly make criminals stop being criminals? Look at this event alone. The shooter broke at least half a dozen laws. It didn’t stop the crime. Adding one more won’t change it.

People seem to think if you make military style weapons illegal for civilians this will suddenly stop, all it will do is add one more crime a mass shooter will break.
They will just get a black market weapon.
Now I do think it shouldn’t be so easy to obtain one of these weapons,they should be heavily restricted,people should have to have a license to own one and a permit to transport it,and have to be properly stored while in the home.

@SQUEEKY2 Here is the problem with the argument that these “military style weapons” should be heavily restricted: you are viewing a scary looking gun as one that operates differently than many other guns. The AR-15 an the like are semi-automatic guns. A shot is fired for every pull of the trigger. And in a case like this one, the shooter could have done just as much damage with a pistol, a revolver, a shotgun. Trying to regulate something because it looks scary is foolishness and misdirection.

And please don’t misunderstand and think I support school shooters, nor do I promote murder. But trying to solve problems requires an honest look at all the factors. How a gun looks is pretty much insignificant to how it operates when it comes to shooting.

I understand that,but these style of weapons seem to be the choice of these mass shooters,so one step would be make them less easy to obtain.
And make it so you require a permit to transport them,another option would be to register them so Government knows who owns them .

John Meacham, Historian, gun owner, Tennessean, and lives in Nashville, said this morning that if we ban assault weapons we might not prevent all school shooting or all deaths, but even if it prevents some it’s worth it. I’m paraphrasing not quoting.

Meacham pointed out that President Bush left the NRA because of the propaganda the organization put out during the time of the Oklahoma massacre. Also, discussed in the conversation with him was Reagan supported the Brady bill and supported the assault weapons ban.

The Republican Party today is taken over by the extreme base. The conservatives created this monster in their recruitment to increase the party.

This lawmaker is a heartless idiot.

If brains were dymamite he couldn’t blow his nose. Fuck him.

If you want to talk about reactions. Did you see the photo of Representative Andy Ogles’ Christmas card with all of his family members holding guns? He represents a county near Nashville. The celebration of Jesus’ birthday they are holding rifles! What is happening?!

When asked about the card after the Nashville shooting he doubled down on it being ok.

Here’s a link about it and a photo of the card

^^Either pure politics ( which makes for a good living for the entire family —- food, clothes, shelter, education, transportation and recreation) or the family just adore guns next to Jesus.

Seems more like the devil than Jesus. Peace, love, joy, and guns.

12 assault riles firing, 11 piper’s piping, 10 Lords a leaping…

Wulf. It’s not just the weapon. It’s the round. The 5.56×45 mm IS a NATO round. The argument could be made that a Mini14 or other semiautomatic rifle firing a 2.23 cal, could do the same damage. But the velocity of the 5.56 and ability to withstand higher pressures, combined with the capabilities of the AR to put multiple rounds on target, long range accuracy, and large capacity magazine, make it hard to defend the rifle as just a defensive weapon.

Others will compare the 5.56 to a .22 caliber LR center fire round, as the projectile is similar in weight/size. However the 22LR, is only just subsonic when traveling at around 1,100 fps. The 5.56 travels around 3,000 fps, and the projectile’s shape and composition, make it’s penetration factor a far more formidable round than most. The 5.56 is why LEOs are reticent to engage with shooters wielding ARs, even when they also have them. Their body armor may not offer much protection. Even higher classes of vests, with thicker trauma plates, are potentially susceptible to a FMJ (full metal jacket,) 5.56×45 round in closer proximity. I don’t recall ever seeing a 5.56 in a lead nose. The green tips, are what are easiest to obtain in my area. And indoor ranges won’t allow target shooters to use those rounds, because they destroy the range which is designed to absorb most rounds.

I used to defend the ownership of these weapons. Now. I have flip-flopped.
AR’s are certainly not the only weapons capable of doing lots of damage.

Shotguns are probably the most capable weapons, under 30 yards. But usually have a capacity for 1–5 rounds, and unless a slug is used, lose lethality with distance.

Handguns are responsible for the vast majority of gun violence/crimes, in America. They lead the pack in suicides, and accidental deaths. They are also most likely to be stolen from locked vehicles, and used, or sold by “bad guys.”
However. Their shorter barrels, slower projectiles, and smaller capacity magazines, make them less of a threat.
The biggest problem with handguns is what can be sold as a “handgun” these days. Scary stuff. Essentially submachine guns, and machine pistols, with longer barrels, and high capacity mags.
It’s relevant to note that “Glock switches” (making semiautomatic Glocks full auto,) have been widely spread recently. Glocks with those mods, or ownership of a Glock, and a separate switch (stored separately,) are being deemed illegal by ATF. However. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t already in circulation.
That’s why total bans on certain firearms is a ridiculous notion.

The ban or heavy regulation of selling AR’s, or other scary guns, won’t change much. But. It could change a little. Gun owners, such as myself, would be selfish not to make it harder for such weapons to be acquired. And most of us agree. But. The government, as a whole, isn’t doing the job that the people are screaming for. It’s not a partisan issue. But. It’s hard to argue that Republicans aren’t the ones stopping tighter gun laws…

Sorry folks…
I had that rant coming like a bm, the morning after Thanksgiving…

…...Fin…

^^Supposedly when there was an auto-weapons ban for several years sometime ago, shootings were reduced.

^There was also a ban on weapons being sold with high capacity magazines. But you could still buy/own them.

My point is still made. Tighter regulation, would reduce some problems…

I don’t know why anyone would have an issue making them restricted(NOT BANNED) so they are not so damn easy to obtain if one really wants one then they can jump through the hoops to own one.
Also these types should be registered so the authorities know who owns them.

^Authorities like the FBI/ATF, should have knowledge of who owns what. However. The information should not be public.
Any sales/transfers of the weapons should be heavily regulated.
I would like a backlog law. Something in the lines of the authorities being able to pursue taking known firearms from New felonious/violent offenders.

And. Tracking ammunition sales…

@Dig_Dug “I don’t know how they sleep at night”. Well I imagine they are petty worn out after having sex with their assault weapons all night. And foreplay with a 1000 round ammo clip must be hard as hell on the fingers. “Ask your doctor of Rogain is right for you. Make your AR 15 happy again!”

^Now see. We haven’t even discussed sexual interactions with assault rifles.
I guess it’s fine. As long as they can’t legally get married…
Or have abortions.
Or immigrate from south of the border whilst non-white.
Or non-Christian…

I’m so emotional about this right now I want to say a million things and I can’t get even one straight to say it! Dammit! This whole thing is freaking me out!

^^Wish videos of the faces of those innocents just before their bodies got shredded with bullets are beamed 24/7 into the TV and cellphone screens of gun-loving Americans especially politicians.

^^That picture of the little girl crying looking through the school bus window says it all. That just kills me. She and all her classmates will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

Amen.

@SQUEEKY2 Have you ever bought a gun in the USA? Everyone acts like you can just walk into the local gun store and buy an AR-15. It isn’t that easy. You still have to fill out forms and get a background check. Handguns are even more difficult to buy. To conceal carry you have even more requirements. In my area (North Carolina) I actually had to apply at the sheriff’s office to get a permit to be allowed to buy a gun and STILL had to go through the various background checks and forms. And that was for a carbine, not a handgun. The rules concerning “concealed carry” are really bizarre. If I was going to the shooting range and had my gun locked in the trunk of my car, that is considered a concealed weapon. If I have it in the gun case and the case is closed, that is concealed. To be truly legal, I would have to have the case opened so the gun is readily visible.

This is an interesting video from Steven Crowder (a fellow Canadian like you). He took two young women to the shooting range and let them see what went into buying a gun.

@MrGrimm888 I always enjoy your comments because they are well thought out and well presented. But the problem with the legislation comes from the government itself. Diane Feinstein once proposed an assault weapons ban. If you read this, you find that it tries to outlaw just about every gun out there. It defines an “assault weapon” by a large number of things that have nothing to do with a specific round that can be fired and relies heavily on appearance. For instance, if you buy a shotgun that has a pistol grip at the back it is suddenly an assault rifle. If you buy a gun with a detachable magazine it is suddenly an assault weapon. The entire thing is extreme government overreach at a time when the government is being weaponized. And it proves that to the gun-control nuts, it is the weapon and how it looks as opposed to the round it shoots.

While I know the difference between shell sizes and their power, I also know that a lot of the claims are bogus. And not everything you stated really holds much water in these shootings. The AR-15 does have a better long range accuracy than a pistol or a shotgun. But most of the shots in these attacks are not long range. They are close range. So the benefit of the AR becomes less, especially when you consider having to carry it (they are heavier than a shotgun or a handgun) and people can see you coming from a long way off so they have more time to call for help and get people hidden.

I’m not an AR for a number of reasons, but that they are “assault weapons” is not one of them. I AM against idiotic, knee-jerk reactions that make no sense and present more danger than they will ever remove.

@seawulf575 So how many ”idiotic, knee-jerk reactions that make no sense” do we have to endure? 129 mass shooting involving 4 or more injuries or deaths in the first 3 months of this year alone! What if one of these was your family? How idiotic would it be then?!

Wulfie, although it was before 911 I have bought a firearm from the US, it was a 357mag revolver and super easy and legal, in a small town only a few miles from the border, and to make it legal he had to drive the gun to the border and hand it to customs, who then wanted $26 in GST tax and asked me as I was leaving if I had my transit permit,I said yes and asked if they wanted to see it they said no and have a nice day.
I then drove to my local RCMP detachment and registered the gun and then took it home.
I have not bought any guns, ammo, or reloading supplies out of the US since 911.

Wulf. We are in agreement that many weapons could be used to kill large amounts of people. Many things that aren’t considered weapons, can be.
I also agree that gun laws, as far as bans/attempted bans, do not typically seem to be made by people who have any idea what they’re talking about.

My argument about the AR-15 platform is that it’s difficult to not see it as an offensive/defensive firearm. Not just a defensive weapon.
That’s why I went into simple ballistics, barrel length and design. Allow me to play devil’s advocate. My chosen role here.

Weight.
The weight, isn’t as different as you note. A dry Remington Bushmaster AR-15, sane as used in the Sandy Hook massacre,
and the weapon that Remington got sued for (successfully,) chambered in 5.56×45 mm weighs about 8.25 lbs.
A Remington 870 shotgun, the most commonly sold model shotgun by same maker, chambered in 12 gauge “2 ¾ -“3 mag, weighs about 7 lbs. with no shells.
Remington 1911 (couldn’t think of a more popular model, sorry,) chambered in .45 ACP, weighs around 2.25 lbs. unloaded.

Ammunition. (My fav.)
Ammunition comes in wide varieties, for many designed purposes…
We’ve already covered 5.56 FMJ green tips, as far as simple ballistics.
FMJs AR’s most likely round, as they should cycle well, wether the AR is gas or piston driven.
We could go into the myriad of hunting rounds, but the projectile does not need to expand in soft tissue to be lethal.
12 gauge “2¾ (let’s go with my personal stock choice for this weapon.) Fiocchi Defense Dynamics, “2¾, low recoil defense buckshot (9 lead pellets/projectiles.)
For those who don’t know about firearms, I’ll explain. Trigger pulled, firing pin hits primer (ideally accurately,) ignites powder, creating pressure, that hits the wad and sends pellets at around 1,200 fps. Pellets disperse with variable distance based on place of shell ignition (in this case a barrel/chamber) and distance to barrel muzzle.
Shotguns afford the most versatility, in regards to different types of shells. Rifled slugs or ball slugs, would be on the other extreme end of shotgun ammo spectrum. Basically, a massive single .50 cal projectile. Designed for hunting large game, or defense. Ball slug makes BIG hole. Rifled slug has better penetration and makes BIG hole. Can be fired in either smoothbore, or rifled barrel. Looses accuracy in smoothbore.

.45 cal ACP (going to use my personal stock again. Hope that’s OK. It’s just right here and I suck at computers, so I don’t want to x out.).. Hornaday, Critical Duty .45 AUTO+P (aka ACP) 220 grain (grain = measurement of mass) FlexLock JHP *j*acketed *h*ollow *p*oint with rubber-like stuff in the tip. Velocity is 941 fps, at 50 yds. Projectile designed so metal jacket adds penetration, but still expands/“mushrooms” in soft tissue. Specifically designed for “defense.”
Fiocchi (yes, again) .45 AUTO FMJ ‘s. Velocity of a bit less, at 860 fps. Likely due to heavier projectile, and the fact that Hornaday makes hot rounds.
FMJ projectile designed for target shooting or defense, and should cycle well in all semiautomatic handguns. (Note. FMJ would be most reliable.)

Barrels. (Going to go with some averages here, as lengths and types vary so much, even on the same models.) Not going into flash suppressors, breach barrels, etc…
☆Remington AR-15 Bushmaster. Chambered in 5.56×45 mm.
Uh… I think ’‘16 to ’‘21. (That’s a guess, from my FFL days.).. Free floating, rifled barrel.
Free floating means that the barrel isn’t connected to the stock. Allowing for greater accuracy when weapon is being fired and shooter is compensating for recoil.
Rifling means the inside of the barrel has grooves in it that tightly grip the projectile, and spin it (like a football,) to improve accuracy.
As far as length. Longer the barrel, longer the range, greater the accuracy. Sacrifice = mobility and added weight, for longer barrels.
☆Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun. Chambered in 12 gauge, “2¾ – “3 mag.
’‘18.5 – “28, smoothbore barrel. Rifled barrel available aftermarket. Shorter barrels mean that the many pellets spread faster, in closer range. Longer barrels mean that the pellets stay grouped together for longer distances.
Sacrifice = some mobility depending on the stock and regardless of barrel length the “shot” loses efficacy over distance.
☆Remington 1911 R1, semiautomatic chambered .45 ACP (*A*utomatic *C*olt *P*istol.)
“5 rifled barrel.
Simple. Basic. Actually kind of long, for average handguns nowadays. But. As firearms go. Short.
Sacrifice = range, and accuracy.

The weapon.
The AR-15 is a descendant of sorts of an M-16, chambered in 5.56×45 mm.
Mag capacity 20. Greater with aftermarket mags…
A weapon designed in 1959 to replace the M-14 chambered in 7.62×51 mm rounds, as the latest standard US military rifle.
The M16 was designed specifically for military use as an offensive/defensive, all around rifle. The M16 was designed to outshine the Russian AK-47. (No shit,) the most deadly weapon system in human history. That is to say, it killed more people since it’s inception in 1947 (see what they did there? 1947/AK47…) than ANY weapons system EVER. The AK-47 is THE assault rifle. It (now mostly in 7.62×39,) fired the same 7.62×51 and 7.62×63 mm’s as the old M1 (rounds commonly referred to as “thirty ought six” designed in 1906, see a pattern here with names?) rifles used by most militaries in WWII and the Korean War. But. The AK-47 was a full auto rifle, and as reliable as such things come. Why the history lesson?
12 gauge shotgun.
EDITING

Well. A lot of that got erased for whatever reason. I’m not retyping it… It was a sort of attempt at a PSA…

Bottom line was. AR’s are designed to be the current bar set, for rifles intended for modern warfare.

I would like to add. That. Just what if we saved just a single life, by banning an AR-15, from ever being sold again?
I know it’s a slippery slope. But. Wouldn’t it be worth it? One single life… Means SO much… Right? One more child has a mother. One more mother has a child. One more little girl still has her best friend. An old man still has the one last person he cares about in the whole fucking world!
One more little boy sees the simple beauty of sharing the world with a bee, rattling the air as it hovers by…
Hell. I would be just so fucking thrilled about that…

I’m always pounding my fists into innocent trees, and cement floors. Just trying so hard, to be a good person.
I hated selling guns. Hated fighting people as a LEO, and as a bouncer. Hated hurting people. Hated seeing others hating this world.
We’re all just playing by the fucking rules. I know I have. I sure as shit didn’t make this sick game.
We’re ALL so selfish. We really are. And for what?....

Sorry everyone…............
Deeeeeeeeep sigh…...........

@Dig_Dug The knee-jerk reactions I am speaking of are to run into gun control laws as a solution. First off, it doesn’t actually look at the whole problem. The gun is a tool, not a cause. That knee-jerk reaction assumes that if you suddenly put a new law in place it will stop people who are going to break the law anyway. There are millions of AR-15’s in this country. Most are owned by law abiding people. These are not the ones that you typically have to worry about. If the gun alone was the cause of these shootings there would be an equal number of shootings. Putting laws in place to impact gun ownership are going to impact the group you really don’t have to worry about anyway.

Until the world starts having honest discussions and not political discourses, this sort of thing will continue to happen. Example: The Parkland shooting. Nikolas Cruz bought his guns legally. But everyone knew he was trouble, nuts, unstable…pick your adjective. He had been arrested numerous times on crimes that would have banned him from gun ownership. So how was he able to buy a gun? It’s because of liberal policies that Obama started and Broward County adopted where teens that get arrested for crimes don’t actually get arrested. They are given “another chance”. Better in school than in prison was the idea. So he gets arrested and they don’t even put a tick mark on his record, but turn him back to the school. This happened many times. So when he got to be old enough he went to buy guns. They ran the background check on him and it came back clean. Officially he was a fine upstanding member of society. So they let him buy the guns. That was not a failure of the gun purchasing rules, it was a failure of leftist policies. But we can’t talk honestly about that. Instead we blame the guns and rush to make gun ownership harder.

I’d like to hear his response to why this happens in the US so prevalently compared to other first world countries.

@seawulf575 The problem is this is NOT a knee-jerk thing, this is an on going problem for such a long time! When are we gonna do something? This was not the first school shooting. Year after year this has been happening so no knee-jerking here. We need to start somewhere and that one case you mention was a sad example to be sure and a failure of the system/perhaps certain people. He should not have been able to purchase or own any weapons.

What would be the problem if these assault style weapons were registered, with that the authorities would know who owns them,and even in private sales the old owner is going to make sure the new owner goes through the steps to get the weapon in their name and out of the old owners name.

@Dig_Dug What about all those law abiding citizens that use guns to defend themselves? Just want to throw them to the wolves? The National Academies that showed that guns are used anywhere from 108,000 times to 3,000,000 times per year. The numbers and their discrepancies are explained in the article. It also states that people that used guns to defend themselves against attack were less likely to suffer injury as compared to their unarmed counterparts. Someone breaks into your house and threatens your family and you are unarmed, you and your family stand a much better chance of getting hurt or killed. But according to you guns are only used to kill kids. Even the evil AR-15 is used for home defense.

This is what I’m talking about with knee-jerk. You aren’t getting all the facts (and neither are the politicians) and you are trying to make laws that will likely not have the expected impact you think. They may even make things worse.

Being a firearm enthusiast I get where your going, but this weapon the AR15 seems to be the weapon of choice for these mass shooters, and they seem to walk right through the back ground checks, what is wrong with mandating that these rifles have to be registered so the authorities know where they are and who owns them?

@seawulf575 An AR-15 shoots large caliber rounds that can travel for miles. They can penetrate the walls of your home and go into the home of your neighbors and kill them also! YOU DON’T NEED SOMETHING THAT POWERFUL to stop an intruder!!!! DAMMIT!

In my state now, you don’t need a local background check . . . so any mentally imbalanced person / spouse abuser, can go in a gun store and buy a semi-automatic (NATO round) gun and ammo !

I think that is what the NRA wants because there is an increase after mass shootings, once a week more money NRA !

@Dig_Dug you are correct it makes little sense to have a gun that can go through several walls
and end up killing an innocent person three doors down.
My opinion the best home defence weapon would be a pump shotgun with a short barrel,you have the room covered and it wont end up killing someone three houses down.

Thank you @SQUEEKY2 I mentioned a shotgun in another post for home defense. I get so irritated with this insane thought process of needing a weapon so powerful it could cut someone in half or kill from a mile away for home defense!

Just to clarify. The 5.56×45 is not a “large” round. The projectile is on the smaller side of most calibers available in a civilian market.
It’s how the projectile performs in soft tissue.
The velocity of the projectile traveling through soft tissue sends a sort of shockwave through surrounding area’s, like the wake created in the water by a speed boat. I know it’s morbid to think about but, it is especially deadly in looser flesh, like in an abdomen, thigh, or thorax… Surgeons working on patients wounded by such rounds have been frustrated by it’s barbarism since they’ve been treating those wounds. An ER doctor is sadly accustomed to treating most gunshot wounds in America. However. Wounds from these 5.56 rounds are typically only seen in war zones…

Wulf. With all due respect, of course AR’s can be used for protection. So could a rail gun…

@Dig_Dug Now you are deciding what others need to feel safe. How arrogant of you. And you completely ignore the citations I just gave that show guns used defensively actually save lives. And that is part of the discussion that needs to be had. Go back up and look at what is being proposed as an “assault weapons” ban. It is nothing but a power grab to outlaw most guns. Unrealistic and dangerous to the public as well. Yes, dangerous to the public. I just showed you that guns are used defensively far more than offensively and they actually do stop the bad guys even when the bad guys have guns too.

The problem is you can’t get past your emotion to look at reality and consider all aspects…all you want is gun ban. You don’t want discussion. You are like a petulant child throwing a tantrum to get her own way.

@MrGrimm888 With all due respect, so could a bazooka. How many of those are available? Besides, those are automatic. Bringing something like that up is well below you. It was an effort to try debunking a fact that can’t be debunked and trying to debunk it by coming up with something well outside the scope of the discussion.

^First off. Nothing is beneath me. ;)
Devil’s advocate.
Indeed. Most physical objects, can be used in self defense. And in offense.
I’m just saying that it’s hard to justify owing weapons like the AR, solely for defense.

Unless you believe that “to secure peace, is to prepare for war.” I can’t argue with that. Sadly…

I’m just trying to think of some variables we could control, that would have an effect on reducing these extreme, but more and more frequent occurrences…
Is there nothing you would sacrifice, to have even a small positive impact on your countrymen?
Your ex-military. Isn’t there something that you were bound by oath to do? Protect your country from ALL threats. Foreign, and domestic.

These types of weapons pose a domestic threat. Our law enforcement possesses them. Can’t we just let them do there jobs? If you don’t like how laws are enforced, or which laws, that’s where voting on all levels should work (hypothetically.)
To put people in place, who think like you. If your votes are outnumbered by the majority of votes from opposition, you’re just SOL…
Respectfully…

@MrGrimm888 GA! If I say anything wulfie will tell me I’m stupid again.

^You two just have Irreconcilable differences of opinions. That’s all. This is a debate forum. That’s going to happen. You think he and I align on all subjects? That’s a negative. But we still manage to have somewhat constructive conversations and seem to have mutual respect for each other as a result.
“You kids play nice. Stay out of the road!”......

Wulfie, did anyone of us say bann them?
Better back ground checks, maybe register them, but I haven’t heard anyone say bann them.
I won’t argue that maybe the AR15 used in a self defence role saved someones life but it’s stupid to use a high powered rifle in that situation where a stray round could in fact go through several walls and kill an innocent person three doors down.
A pump shotgun with a riot barrel is a lot better at that kind of thing and won’t reach someone three doors down.

I have hinted at full ban on sales of the AR-15. I’m just looking for solutions… And I get the problem with such thinking. It’s a slippery slope. It could lead to no firearms for anyone. Eventually.
But. Would that really be so terrible? Realistically… I can’t say…

@MrGrimm888 Up here in Canada the AR15 is a very restricted rifle ,it has to be registered, and can only legally be used at approved gun ranges.
Also with your bann theory that would only affect new sales what about the millions of AR15’s that are already in civilian hands?
And unless the Government comes up with a buy back program,(that I can’t see happening) won’t take the ones that are already in the publics hands.

^It would be a total shit storm. I’m not sure there are “millions” of AR’s in circulation, but it really doesn’t matter, to make my point. I’m trying to find a way to prevent one single death. I’m not foolish enough to think it will have a measurable effect, on these mass shootings. But. Could we give it a try?....

@MrGrimm888 To me it is the domestic threats that are the greatest these days. Our government is being weaponized against every day people. Look at the guy that was arrested for speaking out at a school board meeting because their policies led to his daughter being raped. That led to the DoJ putting out guidance to treat parents at school board meetings as domestic terrorists. ??? Our government is about 1 small step away from being a 3rd world country complete with dictator and everything. They are following many of the same plays as those that led to Nazi Germany, Communist China, Soviet Russia, and Socialist Venezuela. Putting more power into the hands of these people is unacceptable to me. THAT is what will lead to more loss of life.

No, I don’t like the school shootings. No, I don’t support someone unloading in a night club, an office building, or from a hotel room window. But here’s the problem and where I differ from so many other people: I don’t look at the gun as the cause of these things. I look at it as a tool used. Just as I don’t think the SUV was guilty in the Waukesha parade killings, I don’t think the guns are guilty in the shootings. There are reasons these people are doing these things. By focusing on the “how” (the gun), we are missing the opportunity to actually understand the “why” of these events. Until we get to the why, we cannot hope to stop the senseless killing.

Putting more gun control in place is not sane. It is designed to make law-abiding people have more control and they are the ones that don’t need it. It is those that don’t care about the law that are the problem.

Then @seawulf575 how do you propose to keep the (tool) out of hands that would use it to do harm to innocent people?
Because these people are walking through with ease the checks that are in place right now to keep these tools out of their hands.

@seawulf575 Don’t get me wrong although I never agree with you on anything political,I am a firearm enthusiast and have shot the AR15 it’s a fun gun to shoot, BUT something has to be done to keep it out of hands that shoot innocent people, TOOL or not it’s the tool these shooters are choosing,and I agree they will just shift their choice if it becomes to hard to obtain an AR15 ,so maybe people need to have a firearms permit and prove they have passed safety courses and so on.

@SQUEEKY2 There are far more protected by guns than killed by them. So keeping them out of the hands of those that would do harm comes down, again, to why they are doing it as opposed to the gun.

We sink an inordinate amount of time, money, and effort towards efforts to disarm people. Imagine if we sank those resources into actually understanding why people feel that shooting children is a good thing to do…think of where we might be already.

We sink an inordinate amount of time, money, and effort towards efforts to disarm people. Oh “we” do?? Just how is that being done now? Show me how that is @seawulf575 ! I think you just stuck your size 10 in your big mouth!

@Dig_Dug Every time some fool shoots up a school or a night club or something the politicians start with the blaming of the gun and start efforts to do away with guns. They spend time crafting “Assault Weapons Bans” which are named such so as to avoid actually showing that they want to ban 99% of guns that are out there. The MSM spends endless hours pushing the same narrative. At no time do they ever actually ask the question “what was wrong with this person that made them want to do this?” At no time do they set up studies from the CDC or anything to look into the why of the shooting. They stop at the gun.

The same happens when we start talking about gun deaths. Everyone wants to talk about gun deaths in this country. But they don’t want to actually break down the data. They don’t want to hear that more than half of all gun deaths every year are suicides. They don’t want to hear about the thousands of gang related shootings that were done with illegally obtained guns. They don’t want to discuss that…the things that start getting into the “why”. They just stop at “Guns!” and start ranting about how horrible they are.

They don’t want to actually address how guns are used in self-defense. That goes entirely against the idiotic narrative of trying to outlaw guns. “Why did that mother shoot those three thugs that broke into her home?” There’s a why we could answer quite easily, yet we don’t want to talk about it.

I have asked @seawulf575 leaving the gun out of it, how do we make it harder for the ones that want to do harm to obtain a firearm?
You seem against any kind of universal health care including mental health care!
You are against registering any kind of gun, which would help the government know who has them.
You are against people needing a license to own and buy a gun,so what is the answer?

@SQUEEKY2 That is why I have suggested actually sinking some effort into finding the answer. You are looking for an easy, one answer fits all answer that just doesn’t exist. Could it be the violence on TV/video games/music/internet that numbs people to why murder is wrong? Do these things glorify killing? That is just one avenue that needs to be evaluated. With about 10 people and a bottle of wine we could probably come up with a dozen other things that might contribute.

The vast majority of gun owners in this country are safe. The VAST majority. Something ridiculous like 99.92%. If you look back and some of the school shootings, you will find these people got their guns illegally, sometimes killing a family member to use theirs. How much harder can you make it? But I always go back to the Parkland FL shooting. That shooter was a troubled, violent person that had been arrested a number of times well before the shooting. He was never actually booked and therefore had nothing on his background to see…the background that was required to be able to buy a gun. He was never booked or charged, even on felonies, because Obama had started a policy of not putting students in jail, keeping them in school instead. The Dem leadership of Broward county bought into this idea. So the leftist policy failed miserably, but apparently we have to have a bunch of kids get killed before the obvious danger of that policy is acknowledged. And even then it was not highlighted as a contributing factor…they kept blaming the gun.

I have a hesitance to go into mental health usage or red flag laws due to the limitations it might put on the people to report issues or having the laws abused. There have been cases where someone’s ex-wife complained the guy had guns and was mentally unstable. That was enough for the police to go seize his guns. Getting them back was painful and there was no detriment for the vindictive, lying person that started all the grief. Another consideration is if someone has a mild case of anxiety and are prescribed Xanax, does that automatically make them a danger to themselves or others? You surely see the reasoning.

I am against registration as that becomes a very simple way for someone to know where the guns are. Whether that is the government or hackers, it takes away the unknown that is a huge deterrent when looking at stopping crime.

I’m not particularly against needing a license or permit to buy a gun. I’ve had to do that before. I’ve also had to pass background checks through the FBI. I believe most law abiding gun owners have had to do the same.

But all these come back to the same question: how is creating a new law about guns going to stop someone that doesn’t care about the law? Murder is against the law already…that law didn’t stop them.

‘GIVE THEM MORE GUNS
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.GOP mantra ” thoughts and prayers”

Yes and in the mean time more mass shootings.
Sad to say the least but at least the grieving families will know the conservatives send them their thoughts and prayers.

“I’m not particularly against needing a license or permit to buy a gun” BUT “I am against registration as that becomes a very simple way for someone to know where the guns are.” Ummm ain’t that pretty much the same thing? If you buy a gun, they already know you have it and where you live!

“how is creating a new law about guns going to stop someone that doesn’t care about the law?” By getting the unlawful guns off the streets making them unattainable and they will disappear. No longer made no longer sold no longer in existence.

Your entire mental health issue falls flat! What if, what if, etc. What if anyone anywhere calls the police and tells them right now that seawulf has a mental issue and they come and take YOUR guns away today?! See where that falls on it’s face?! This is where you don’t use your head BUT I don’t call you stupid just misinformed, biased, ill advised by your party, perhaps!

You keep using the one Florida case that fell through the cracks, YES that was tragic and should have been avoided! One case out of how many? How many mistakes have the republican party made? Please that’s a rhetorical question because numbers don’t go that high.

@Tropical_Willie Where did I say give them more guns?

@Dig_Dug No, getting a permit to buy a gun and registering it are two different things. The permit is an extra background check and really, another way for the state to make money. A registration tracks a specific gun to an owner. Here’s the difference: I bought a gun online. To do so I needed to go to the Sheriff’s Office to get a permit. The Sheriff’s Office does a quick background check and issues me a permit to buy up to 5 guns. I only bought one gun and had it shipped to a person with an FFL (Federal Firearms License) who is authorized to receive the gun and sell it to me. I had to pay for his services but no extra cost on the gun. But the permit was still good for another 4 guns. The initial permit doesn’t actually show if I bought 5 guns or no guns or anything in between. It just gives the locals another layer of security in their minds.

Why do you need a new law to get unlawful guns off the street? You can do that now. They are illegal. The problem is the cops are often stymied in their efforts because they are being defunded or they have marching orders not to actually search people when they pull them over. When you support efforts to tie the hands of the police, you end up with criminals getting away with crimes. funny how that works, isn’t it?

My part of mental health is exactly what you just said. Red flag laws allow any loony tune that wants to cause problems for someone to call them in as unstable. There are already laws in place about mental capacity when it comes to gun ownership. But it takes a medical, trained ,professional to make the recommendation to the court. At that point a case is heard and the person is evaluated to determine if they are a threat to themselves or others. But the court is involved. Red Flag laws want any Who down in Whoville to be able to claim incapacity with no evidence at all.

I keep using that Florida case for a specific reason. One of the claims from the gun-grabbers is that stronger background checks are needed. But the lefty politicians took action that negated the background checks that would have worked to keep the gun out of the bad guy’s hands. This is a PERFECT example of where the federal bureaucracy and the left-wing agenda fell flat on its face. And no one took responsibility for it. Why aren’t YOU up in arms about it? After all, they defeated the actions that were in place that would have stopped the bad guy from buying a gun and killing kids. Why are you trying to down play it?

All I know is when you buy a gun online or in the store you need to get a background check before you can pick-up the gun. That check has all your information on it so they know who you are and where you live (kinda the whole purpose) also what weapon you own, so I’m not sure what the difference is. Meaning in order to possess that weapon, they know where you live and who you are and what you own.

Now you’re talking about de-funding the police. First of all from what I’ve seen of this de-funding, that is only taking back a small portion of the allotted money that they would normally get. Sometimes because there just isn’t enough money in the budget and sometimes because of a sort of “punishment” for some wrong that the department has done. (now I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole) I have a hard time believing that the police can’t search people, they do that all the time.

@Dig_Dug You need to open your reading list a bit. Defunding the police is really just that. Milwaukee, NYC, Portland…all did big cuts to their police departments. Milwaukee got rid of about 180 cops, NYC cut 1163 cops, Portland cut 84 positions. And these are just examples. And in each of these places, crime shot up immediately. Big surprise, eh? Portland is trying to restore their police to the original numbers now, but are having problems doing so.

Well with all those good citizens running around with their AK’s maybe they can help out!

Here @seawulf575 read this https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2021/05/19/7-myths-about-defunding-the-police-debunked/

It is not all about YOU !

@Dig_Dug Yes, the left-wing outlet supports and cites other uber-left outlets as its research to debunk what they call myths. Meanwhile there are the actual results that tell an entirely different story. Yes cities defund the police…making drastic cuts to their budgets and getting rid of police. Yes these cities almost always see a subsequent rise in crime. It has gotten so bad in San Francisco that even the super-left mayor has finally had to admit it’s a bad policy and has led to a situation where the city is a sewer.

@seawulf575 I looked at your actual results and for NY total crime actually went down. Also that was the start of the pandemic which was crazy for everywhere June of 2020. Now I’m not even going through all those statistics because that would take forever and you will just try and shoot all of them down! This is also getting off the basic topic

We can’t refund police dpts. Who will we have to gun down black guys driving while wearing a hoody?! You lefties just beat all.

@NoMore I love your sarcasm! You forgot the LGBTQ+ and drag queens. They are such a major threat these days reading those lefty books and all!

Absolutely. I’m much more concerned about my grands being exposed to gays and drag queens than something minor like, oh I don’t know. Being gunned down in school by some maniac with a police record and mental health issues who merely exercised his rights by buying an auto weapon in 15 minutes.