Are there negative aspects to not being spiritual?

Are you asking if being ‘spiritual’ is better than not being ‘spiritual’?

You worded your question strangely.

But my answer is “No.”

@Sampson I’m trying to figure out if what’s going on in my head is making sense in question format.

Basically, I’m asking whether or not there are negative aspects to not being a spiritual person (believing in god, religion, faith etc).

A less positive outlook on existence.
When you think that there are no supernatural forces out there to help you through life, it does look a bit more dim.

Sometimes you have to be polite and hold your tongue when people spout nonsense. Otherwise, no.

I consider myself a spiritual person. Maybe I should look up the meaning again. I don’t believe in religeon, God or the bible. And I think I’m much better off than having some all-powerful being wanting to send me to hell for some preety unimportant things.

I can identify with @Sarcasm ‘s statement on this one. The times when I didn’t feel connected spiritually were the times when my outlook on life was pretty bleak.

On average educated people who also discover spirituality are a little more healthy.

I have still not come across a good reason to be spiritual, which is why I am still an atheist.

First point I would make is that being “religious”, or having “religious faith” has really nothing to do with spirituality, so I am going to, based on your clarification, answer the question as if you had asked about drawbacks of being a non-religious person.

The biggest drawback is that you’re on your own and you have to deal with that. When a tragedy or even just bad times in general befall you, as they will to basically every human being at one time or another, if you have faith in a higher power, you can look to that higher power for strength. You can decide your difficulties are a test. You can believe that God will never give you more than you can handle. You can reason that it doesn’t matter because this life is just a tryout for an eternity in heaven. You can ask God to help you. You can pray to God. You have someone who will listen to your troubles. You feel that someone is on your side and it will all work out. You can have faith that it will get better, or that this is all happening for a reason. And when things happen in the world that you don’t quite understand, you can decide that God has a plan, everything happens for a reason, we don’t need to question it, it just is, and we can ease our troubled minds. If your behavior is not acceptable to you or to others, you can absolve yourself of guilt and responsibility if you believe your actions are part of God’s will, God’s plan.

Basically, a belief in God takes away all of the responsibility, all of the unknown, all of the randomness out of life, and allows it to make sense. And further, it answers the great questions…where did we come from, why are we here, and what happens when we die. The question of origin may be more of a curiosity than anything, but if you have faith that God made everything, you don’t need to worry about all of that, it makes life simpler. If you don’t know why we’re here, it means you have to find some purpose to ascribe to your life on your own, you don’t simply have a purpose of “to be a faithful servant to God so I can enter the gates of Heaven.” And what happens when you die, well, it’s got to be nice to truly believe that you are going to a better place than to believe that you will ultimately become worm shit. Life without belief that a soul transcends our earthly realm is damn scary. Which is why, in my opinion, we have religion in the first place. As Voltaire is credited as saying, “If there were no God, it would have been necessary to invent him.” And I believe that this is exactly what mankind has done. So for me, there is no certainty, there is no place of strength…I’m alone in this world and I need to look to myself for the answers, for strength, for purpose…that’s a LOT harder than just doing what the church says, ain’t it?

@dalepetrie Great answer!

Like @Sarcasm and @dalepetrie pointed out, one aspect is that you won’t have any supernatural mommy and daddy to hold your hand and tell you everything is going to be all right. We’re on our own in a universe not custom-made for us to be happy in, we can’t make ourselves believe we don’t have to worry about anything, and we have no one to turn to but each other.

But I can’t really think of that as a negative aspect. It’s less fun, okay, but it will make you a mentally stronger person. Being able to handle yourself without anyone looking out for you is what makes the difference between an adult and someone who just happens to be over the age of 18.

Which is not to say all atheists are mature people. I’m hardly an adult myself, despite being 22.

Without spirituality, an individual becomes socially ineffective and irresponsible, arrogant, and selfish.

@nitemer
Spoken like someone who knows nothing about atheists.

Irresponsible and selfish? Is it not much more selfish to play nice to save your own soul, than to be a good person for the sake of being a good person?
Arrogant? Is it not much more arrogant to believe the entire universe, in all its magnificence and unfathomable greatness, was created just so that we could exist in it, than to believe we’re just a speck of dust drifting around an ocean of emptiness that doesn’t care about us?

“The supreme arrogance of religious thinking: that a carbon-based bag of mostly water on a speck of iron-sillicate dust around a boring dwarf star in a mino galaxy in an underpopulated local group of galaxies in an unfashionable suburb of a supercluster would look up at the sky and declare, ‘It was all made so that I could exist!’” – Peter Walker

I’ve said this many times:

I’d have to first submit there is such a thing as a spirit, soul, animus, whatever – in order to even believe in such thing as spirituality, or at least take it seriously.

Pompous assholism aside, I understand what most people mean when they refer to themselves as “spiritual” – a connectedness to nature, a higher force, being mentally at ease, in a perma-joyous state. I get that, but that isn’t spiritualism, it’s being human.

Simple cosmological models tell us that all matter, in one form or another, was created in stars (and one day might very well return there), are affected by cosmic radiation and have, in a primitive, proto sense, been around since the Big Bang. What does this mean, for someone that refers to them self as “spiritual”, yet have not realized there is no such thing as a soul? A whole lot.

It means that connective feeling – that sinew they feel tugs at them whenever they gaze up towards the stars – it’s real, and it is true. Unfortunately, what they so willingly (and quite often, anxiously) title themselves as is false. But the sense is correct.

I am not a spiritual person. Understanding the basic laws that govern nature, the cosmos, where we came from and what we are – that knowledge gives me much more happiness and fulfillment than any belief in an intangible, unprovable, redundant force that lies dormant in my body, with it’s false promise to live on forever and ever.

The matter that makes us is no different than the matter that makes up a tree or any other living organism. That which connects us truly lives on forever, recycled into the cosmic ocean; organic matter to sprout forth, chemical energy soon thereafter, etc. The vastness of such a prospect is truer and more pure than any form of “spiritualism.”

And guess what? Not one bit of it is negative.

There is some evidence using controlled studies that having religious or spiritual beliefs has a positive impact on people’s health.

“Faith-based, positive religious resources can help patients recover from cardiac surgery, according to findings from a study presented at the 114th annual convention of the American Psychological Association (APA). The study suggests that enhanced hope and perceived social support can protect psychological well-being during stressful procedures and experiences, whereas having negative religious thoughts and struggles may hinder recovery” Source

“The analysis of 42 research studies investigating the role of religion in health, in which 126,000 people were interviewed, has established that religious involvement was helpful in the prevention of specific medical problems such as cancer, heart disease and mental illness. For example, the religious have lower blood pressure than the non-religious, but this is the first study to examine so comprehensively perhaps the most definitive measure of health : how long you live.
“The odds of survival for people who rated higher on measures of public and private religious involvement were 29% higher than those people who scored lower on such measures”, said the psychologist Dr. Michael McCullough, who was the lead author.” Source

@Marina Whilst I certainly agree with and understand the angle of the data and would not try to refute the points made, I believe for all intents and purposes, such an effect could very well be achieved through what I described above.

In a sense, knowledge is the sugar pill, where “knowledge” could be replaced with any credence or ideology.

Placebo has proven time and time again to have certain therapeutic effects on a person. The mind/body connection is a rigid one, indeed.

The point here is that, again, while I’m under the assumption that all data you’ve presented is fully correct, I must refute and say that there is an added layer beneath the “Religiosity/spirituality begets better health”; that is, “Happiness equates to better health.”

We all know that religious gatherings, social support and the like all have powerful effects on the audience, such that they make the individual happy – we are social creatures, after all. That coupled with the belief in eternal bliss in an afterlife and the unseen watcher undoubtedly causes elevated levels of happiness and joy. As I stated earlier: This can be achieved without a god or belief in a spirit.

I’m certain that if such a “godless” mindset was compared to the data from the religious, spiritual types, the result would be nigh identical.

Thus, I can’t accept the claim that religious and spiritual beliefs somehow impact physical health. It is the mental frame of mind and health that promotes such, not the individual belief.

@Grisaille What you say about the positive outlook is probably correct. I was, however, literally answering the questioner’s question. Also, from your own post, you are clearly a very deep thinker.

Many people are not. Religion provides them with a comfort. and with other benefits such as those I mentioned. Whatever my own beliefs, I do not choose to impose them on others nor do I care how they believe. I was merely providing a data point.

Some of these things are merely labels.

I’m personally not very spiritual but i do think that being Spiritual seems to bring alot of people an inner peace.

There was an article in an American Magazine last week that said a lot of Celebs like Johnny Depp and George Clooney were using the visualisation candle range I Conjure Candles and using Buddhist chanting to help them focus on their thoughts more. Johnny said that visualisations helped him focus more on what he really wanted from life and this helped him when he gave up smoking and drugs.
So i guess tuning in to your more spiritual side can help you deal with lifes difficulties.

Religion and spirituality are another way in which human beings build community. Communities help us through the hard times, give us a shoulder to lean on, friends to call, people to have fun with on Friday night. People who are not spiritual or religious have that easy access to a large, often international, community cut off. While it is only one community of many, it is one based on a shared belief system such that I can leave the town I’m in now, fly a thousand miles, walk up to a church with the same name, and know I’ve found a home again with another group of people who share the same basic beliefs as I do.

If you aren’t religious—or at least spiritual—you lose that large community. The world becomes bigger in a lot of ways, but you’re also more alone. And while there are certainly other communities—even other international ones—that can act in the same way, most of them do not have the benefit of such a deeply held set of beliefs about how the world works. Thus, most of them are not as strong or easy to move between chapters.

For example, if I was an active member of the church, when I moved here I would have spoken to my pastor about a good church to join here. He would have asked around and given me some advice, called the church here if I wanted him to and spoken to them about me, and when I got here, there could have been at least one person that I already “knew” when my feet hit town.

But, to counter that example, when my housing fell through at the last moment when I was moving to Pittsburgh for grad school, someone from Fluther helped with my last-second house search. She was in the area already and could see some “for rent” signs that probably weren’t on Craigslist. While I didn’t end up in a place she sent me, that feeling of someone cared enough about a total stranger to help calms a lot of concerns about moving someplace new.

For a less personal example of community you can look at LiveJournal. It’s just another blogging website to a lot of people, but you can build friends and communities there. So when some guy was in danger of losing his house, Save Dave was formed. And when they met their monetary goal to keep Dave in his house, instead of saying, “Okay, guys, thanks a lot, we’re done here,” they rolled the momentum they’d gathered—people helping people, brought together by the LiveJournal community—forward to help others in similar need.

They functioned much in the same way that a religious group functions as a community. So to get back to your question—are there negative aspects of not being spiritual? Yes—you lose access to a large community of like-minded individuals. But that is not the only large community of like-minded individuals out there and while it is hard to recreate such a large, spanning organization like that, the Internet is really starting to level the playing field in this aspect of religion/spirituality vs. none.

I’m lumping spiritual in with religious here because even if you aren’t specifically religious you can always go to a UU place of thought. Also, I apologize, I didn’t mean for this to be so long.

Perhaps someone should one day take the perspectives of wonder, privilege and connectedness that science hands to us and turn them into an easy to follow way of life, one that does have all the psychological benefits of religion but none of the superstitions.
That way even the people who really need religion can be rid of the false beliefs without affecting their psychological well-being.

Carl Sagan always did a good job at making the secular perspective sound optimistic and exhilarating.

Not at all.
As long as guilt does not control you.

You mean like burning in the firey pits of hell?

@filmfann
Hahaha.
Nah, I don’t suppose that sort of aspect is included in what the OP wanted to know.

@Fyrius I love your first post.

Science without spirituality becomes weapons of mass destruction, with spirituality becomes beneficial to all.

@nitemer Science without spirituality does not mean science without ethics!

@nitemer
Curious, then, that radical Muslims with nuclear weaponry are the greatest nightmare of the Western world. They’re very spiritual, after all.

I think it would be very nice if you would be so considerate as to keep your misinformed prejudice to yourself in the future.

@janbb
Indeed.
And contrariwise, science with spirituality does not mean science with ethics.

I don’t buy into organized religion, it’s not for me – I find there is a lot of harm that comes from it so it is positive not to be associated with it and I dislike those that use it for wrong – I feel a great connectedness to people, nature, the cosmos – I know there is much we do not know and some of what we do not know may feel magical but it isn’t – I accept all the contradictions that come with being an atheist that also believes in something bigger even when that bigger isn’t a god…I live my life with more social justice and responsibility than most, I find meaning in so much of my life and what surrounds me, I look for meaning and for health…I feel liberated to be out of religion…the only downside is seeing what negative effects religion has on others and for others…

Sometimes, when my hopelessness gets bad, or things are not going well in my life, I wish I had something to comfort me. Then I remember the comfort would be at the detriment to my reason.

I do not know much about Islam and never get involved with politics. I will answer the questions posed as I would see appropriate and I am not trying to win a popularity contest here. If my answers land on a raw nerve of any one, just ignore them and go on to the ones that pleases you more.

“spirituality becomes beneficial to all.”

The Devil is a spirit. That is beneficial?

For me, spirituality is the recognition that “I” belong to a greater scheme of things.
So when you do so, you can tap into that which is greater than yourself.

Let me give you an example. As a performer (and here I think you can substitute any of the arts – painting, writing, dancing), the best moments happen when I am in “flow”, when I let go.
Now obviously, when I try to just use my conscious ability, I’m not accessing my full potential. There is definitely something subconscious involved in my best performance. What’s in this subconscious? Frankly, I don’t know. But let’s say it’s the sum or weird combination of my personal experiences. Ok, so far so good.

But imagine that you could tap into a collective consciousness, and draw inspiration form that which is even larger. That is to say, your intuition is able to tap into that which is greater than yourself. For example, when Ben Kingsley played Gandhi—how did he do it? He obviously had not had the experience of Gandhi. Or for that matter, how did Gandhi be able to grasp that, yes, this kind of action (or non-action) was exactly right for the Indian people of that time? In some way, you could say that he was tapping into to the collective consciousness (hopes, dreams, what they were ready for) of his people.

If you extend this idea of collective consciousness to non-human things, to a universe, then you are, arguably, crossing the line into “being spiritual”.

We live in a universe with a lot of laws that determine cause and effect. There are physical laws (gravity); there are social laws (if you smile at people they generally smile at you); and then there are forces which—let’s say we haven’t yet got a full understanding of, and so we call them mystical. These ‘mystical’ laws of cause and effect are currently not yet quantifiable by our five senses/scientific research. (Although in some cases like Buddhist meditation, arguably extensively researched in a experiential way).

Being spiritual allows me access to that which is greater than me. And when you align yourself with the universe, wow. It’s like the difference between being a battery and being able to plugged into the AC socket.

@nitemer
I think all you need to know about Islam for our present purposes is that it’s a religion and that the people who flew into the WTC believed in it very strongly. Deeply spiritual people, with the scientific achievement of air travel. Three thousand dead.
Beneficial to all, my derrière.

But ignoring you sounds like a good idea. I’ll do my best.

@Fyrius If the terrorists were so deeply spiritual, why did they spend their last night in a strip club? That violates a lot of Islamic laws.

@filmfann much of what they were about is a contradiction – many religious people are that way

@filmfann
...did they? How the heck do you know?

At any rate, proper Muslims or no proper Muslims, they were spiritual, and took their spirituality very seriously. I believe this is proven by the fact that they willingly killed themselves and everyone in those buildings.
Spirituality centres around belief in a soul. If suicide terrorists weren’t spiritual, they wouldn’t believe in an afterlife with 72 virgins. Spirituality is at least an important part of the reason why terrorists sacrifice themselves just to murder random people.

@Fyrius lol, I’m sorry…I know it’s a serious topic but for some reason the image of filmfann sitting in a strip joint with terrorists made me laugh nervously and in a sick way

Would believing in Santa Claus be spiritual?

No, as he is not a spirit.
Believing in the spirits of Christmas past, present and future, however, would be spiritual.

Who is to say he is not a Spirit. Does plenty of spirit stuff.
Otherwise that Dude has been alive for quite some time.

He does not do spirit stuff! If he was a spirit, he wouldn’t need reindeer and a sled to fly him, he’d fly on his own! I call shenanigans!

@Fyrius It’s true. As a matter of fact, so did the Ft. Hood shooter. There are some blogs that suggest that Muslim Terrorists are giving Strip Clubs a bad name.

It is possible for our world to become more peaceful and spiritually united if we could liberate ourselves from the present form of media which has replaced libraries, schools, family units, etc. Has made us fearful of responsibility and accountability. Forcing us to believe in nothing, deny anything that help our spiritual growth and keep us glued to the tube as mindless consumers who help filling their ever expanding pockets.

…as you write on the internet…

@nitemer You have already equated a lack of spirituality to being “socially ineffective and irresponsible, arrogant, and selfish.” You then implied that non-spiritual scientists create weapons of mass destruction, and now you say a lack of spirituality leads to excessive TV watching?? I don’t get it.

I am a completely atheistic, non-spiritual person, and I am in a stable long term relationship (not socially ineffective), a student of the health sciences (I work in a field where I can benefit humanity, so not selfish), and I watch about two hours of TV per week – well below the national average. I also donate to charity when my finances allow, so I do not consider myself to be socially irresponsible nor contributing to mass destruction. As an atheist, I find your blind assumptions about the character of non-spiritual people offensive. Of course I am not perfect, or a perfect example of an average atheist, but I firmly believe that since my religious/spiritual beliefs were discarded I have become a better person and a more valuable member of society.

Please, before you make such statements, think of personal friends you may have who are atheists, and consider whether they are the sort of people you would make us out to be.

@tinyfaery lol4rl

I’ve never agreed with you more.

Hasty generalizations are often very problematic. Generalizations about theists or atheists, about spirituality or organized religions. Another problem comes from the fact that some concepts are harder to describe than others. What exactly is spirituality? What is the relationship to ethics? Can science and spirituality complement each other, and if so, how? Here are a few interesting parts mentioned by the Wikipedia article, especially in relation to positive or negative aspects (which this Fluther question is about) and I’ve highlighted the part at the end, see below.

“Traditionally, religions have regarded spirituality as an integral aspect of religious experience and have long claimed that secular (non-religious) people cannot experience “true” spirituality. Many do still equate spirituality with religion, but declining membership of organized religions and the growth of secularism in the western world has given rise to a broader view of spirituality.

For some, spirituality includes introspection, and the development of an individual’s inner life through practices such as meditation, prayer and contemplation. While people may practice prayer and believe it affects their health, no scientific evidence supports the efficacy of prayer. Spirituality does not equal to supernaturalism.

If spirituality is understood as the search for or the development of inner peace or the foundations of happiness, then spiritual practice of some kind is essential for personal well being. This activity may or may not include belief in supernatural beings.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

@nitemer
I can’t ignore you if you continue to be so outrageously prejudiced against a social group I am affiliated with.

In addition to what @FireMadeFlesh already said:
And if you don’t actually know any atheists, which is my guess, then please stop pretending you know what they’re like. Don’t make up your own conflated stereotypes and pretend it’s the real thing.

Being a non-spiritual person does not make you irresponsible, selfish, arrogant or “socially ineffective”. And most of us are far from mindless.
You should either get to know what we’re really like, or shut up.

And nobody “forces” you to “believe in nothing”. In fact there is more “spiritual” mumbo jumbo out there than ever to aid whatever process you would call “growth”.
Freedom of religion is widespread and well-established. You have nothing to worry about. In fact, the “spiritual” get much more respect for their beliefs than the down-to-earth get for their well-considered decisions. Whenever any public figure dares criticise any system of faith there is hell to pay left and right, but nobody rushes to our protection when we have to put out with hateful lunatics like you.

And there we have one more disadvantage of not being spiritual: you’re always the bad guy.
The religious can bother you at home with a Watchtower and nobody will bat an eyelid, but if you dare voice your views, you’re automatically “militant” and “intolerant”. The very people who have burned atheists at the stake for centuries will squeal you’re oppressing them, and everyone will hate you for being so mean to those poor religions.

I think that everyone taking the time to debate spirituality while maybe labeling him- or herself as non-spiritual is actually spiritual. To me the ability to engage in introspection is a good indicator. Most atheists I know are spiritual.

@mattbrowne
If you adopt the definition “the search for or the development of inner peace or the foundations of happiness”, then I agree. But you yourself just quoted a paragraph explaining how fuzzy the notion is.

And I will still deny having anything to do with a soul.

@Fyrius – I think people can reject the concept of a soul and still be spiritual. I haven’t mentioned the soul in my previous posts. But the article also mentions this:

A number of authors have suggested that there are spiritual consequences of quantum physics. Theoretical nuclear physicist Amit Goswami views a universal consciousness, not matter, as the ground of all existence. I think this notion is a bit weird.

@mattbrowne In answering this question, I have been treating spirituality as mystic/magical beliefs in either the supernatural or a natural ethereal law that works for good in the world. I consider myself non-spiritual because I do not believe in these.

I say I am not spiritual as a more general term than being atheist. I don’t just not believe in a god or gods; I don’t believe in the supernatural of any form, I don’t believe in karma or any other moral leveller to bring evil on the evil and good on the good, I don’t believe in any supreme justice, and I don’t believe anything happens after death.

To define spirituality as introspection and the quest for self-improvement just seems like shifting the goalposts. In the same way some evolutionists coax creationists to state their acceptance of mutations so they can say “Ha! You accept evolution!”, to say spirituality is introspection leads to saying “Ha! You are spiritual!”.

Well, many words are ambiguous or are very difficult to define. Natural language is not math.

I don’t believe in the supernatural either. Our universe is far too orderly for that. The only question for which there’s no conclusive answer is: is nature all there is? Naturalists’ answer is no.

@mattbrowne “Is nature all there is?” Is not anything outside of nature by definition super-natural? Encarta defines supernatural as “not of natural world: relating or attributed to phenomena that cannot be explained by natural laws”.

@mattbrowne
Science’s answer is “probably not.”
We’ll consider that there might be anything “outside” nature if the facts ever force us to. Until then, postulating any such thing would be nonsensical.

We all live and cater to a collection of needs. After our primary needs such as food or shelter is satisfied we then have our secondary needs come into play, one of which is the need for recognition. We are looking to be recognized to receive intrinsic or extrinsic reward. There are those who live for only I(the #1) who usually don’t have anything to offer for the betterment of our society and constantly shout IIII am this and IIIII am that, wast a lot of time to prove their shaky stations and they refer to people who do not agree with them as prejudice. And then there are those who spend a lifetime helping where help is needed, most without expectation of any reward of any kind.

@nitemer
And you’ll find religious people and atheists in both of those categories.

@FireMadeFlesh – No one can explain why there are natural laws. To me the belief in a self-explanatory cosmos can be considered supernatural as well. It just did it to itself is not a natural explanation, rather some kind of meta-law to solve the bootstrapping problem.

You and I agree in one thing: There’s nothing supernatural within our cosmos. No intervention. We differ when it comes to explaining the cosmos, explaining why there’s something rather than nothing. Science cannot do that, although I know that many people think it can. We’ve had those debates before and I don’t want to go into it again.

@mattbrowne I am well aware that we have already been through this, and I don’t want to cover the same ground over and over. All I am asking is why you hesitate to refer to it as supernatural, regardless of the location of God’s residence, since the supernatural is that which nature cannot explain (which by your beliefs includes the cause of nature).

@FireMadeFlesh – Because there’s a difference between the theistic interpretation of the universe and tooth fairies or ghosts who supposedly haunt people on Friday the 13th violating the order of natural laws.

The supernatural is that which nature cannot explain. Well, nature cannot explain nature, but I would never claim that atheists therefore believe in the supernatural because of that.

@mattbrowne
I know this is going to sound rude, but could you please point out what exactly is this difference?

@Fyrius – No, no, it doesn’t sound rude at all.

The standard meaning of supernatural:

A religious miracle violating natural laws (not all do, but some if understood literally like Jesus walking on water do). Same for ghosts who supposedly haunt people on Friday the 13th. Or creating people in 7 days.

Note, all of this refers to the domain of nature i.e.our cosmos. The cosmos is already there and we observe what’s happening.

The special meaning of supernatural (maybe we should have a different word for it like metanatural)

All explanations for the existence of our cosmos.

@mattbrowne
Ah, so the “supernatural” that you reject is the kind that allegedly meddles with the universe in violation of everything we know about how everything works, while the “supernatural” you endorse is that which is outside/above/beyond/[insert other preposition of questionable applicability here] nature and stays put there?
Well, that sounds sensible. Or at least consistent.

At my age I have done just about everything in my underwear. I have been a vegetarian,an atheist, a hippie, you name it. But eventually becoming a part of the larger picture of the world happens only by an event in a person’s life. For example, if a person’s loved one or a child is about to die with no apparent help left in sight, you leave everything aside and raise your hands up to the heavens and ask for help and it is done then there can hardly be room for any argument. This of course is a very dramatic example, but events like this happens to us all the time and most often goes unnoticed.
If the transformation occurs and the person accepts it, the imprisonment of never ending debates ends, the individual never looks back and begins to truly enjoy the rest of the life ahead.

@nitemer
Thanks for your advice. I’ll keep in mind that when life gets tough, I’ll be more than ever at risk of turning into an irrationalist.

And if in a moment of weakness I pray for something that means the world to me, and I eventually get my way, I should remember when I’ve calmed down again that there are also gazillions of prayers that aren’t answered. And that you can’t draw reliable conclusions from an anecdote with no controls.

Yes, it’s a grumpy atheist. He gets grumpy when people talk about throwing reason out the window as if it were a wonderful personal development.

The pen of the most high exhorteth, the manifestation of authority and the sources of power, namely the kings, the sovereigns, the presidents, the rulers, the divines and the wise, and enjoineth them to uphold the cause of religion, and to cleave unto it. Religion is verily the chief instrument for the establishment of order in the world and of tranquillity amongst its peoples. The weakening of the pillars of religion hath strengthened the foolish and emboldened them and made them more arrogant. Verily I say: The greater the decline of religion, the more grievous the waywardness of the ungodly. This cannot but lead in the end to chaos and confusion. Hear Me, O men of insight, and be warned, ye who are endued with discernment!

Bored now.

@nitemer – whatever helps you sleep at night. I won’t be fooled, however.

No offence to anyone but Christianity creeps me out.

@Rachienz What you see above does not come from Christianity but true Christianity is not what we are exposed to today.

The only downside I can see is depriving myself of unique and valuable perspectives on life and where I fit in the grand scheme of things.

I think it depends on the person. Some people are not spirtual and yet have a kind spiritual quality. Some people are morally corrupt and lost and gaining some spirituality certainly can’t hurt and more than likely can help.
I knew a man once who was nasty through and through. He use to beat his wife and cheat on her. He tried therapy and that did not work. Then he tried going to church and said he found Jesus. He did a total 180. He was not the same man as before. His marriage survived and he stop blaming the world for his troubles and also stopped drinking and cheating. Till today he is still that new man. It has been 10 years.