Why is it okay to kill someone who is trying to kill you, but not okay to kill someone who is ruining your life?

“However, if someone tries to “only/just” ruin your life, so that your one and only life is wasted, an equivalent to death,”
False premise.

@ragingloli I would disagree. You only live once.

I could go as far as agreeing that it is not a full equivalent, as you could use your life to fix the damage. But if someone ruins your life for two weeks, it is basically an equivalent to a two week murder followed by a second life. But if someone ruined your life forever, until the day you die, that would be an equivalent to murder.

But if someone is going to do something to you, or impose something on you, that will make your one and only life, unlivable until the day you die, I don’t see why you would not have a right to kill that person.

For example, at the moment, the government is imposing its bullshit in to my life, treating me like cattle, and not allowing me to marry and be with the love of my life.

If I should lose her due to them interfearing in my life, I don’t really understand how I don’t have a right to fight back, and if their imposing their rules on my life, lead to us losing each other and not being able to ever marry, I don’t understand how that does not give me the right to actually kil them for revenge, or kill them before the fact to defend myself.

(this is all hypothetical btw, I know killing the dumb bitch at the registry office wont get me anything)

Added:

What if they wanted to ruin your life by locking you in a tiny box, after crippling you, so that you were basically already a corpse waiting to die?

What if, they were going to do something to you, that would make the rest of your life not worth living, a waste.

What if it made you want to kill yourself, so you did actually end up dead as a result.

When you kill someone, are you not basically just wasting their existence? is that not what is wrong with murder and why it is illegal? because it wastes life? then why not when life is wasted by other means?

EDIT:

The same way a death penalty can be prefferable to life in prison…. can it not be that doing some things to a person, is actually worse than murder, with all the more reason to use violence as a defense?

> When you kill someone, are you not basically just wasting their existence? is that not what is wrong with murder and why it is illegal? because it wastes life?

I don’t think so, @poisonedantidote. You’d have to go further and show why wasting someone’s life is considered wrong. And I don’t think altruism has anything to do with it. From the point of view of origin, I think the sanctions against murder are intended to preserve society. A society can’t survive if its members are free to go around killing one another with impunity.

This is not to defend wasting or destroying life by any other means but only to give an opinion on why “Thou shalt not kill” seems to be a fundamental principle of every culture that survives.

Note: For anyone who knows my backstory and is worried I will do something stupid, I will not.

This question is for the purposes of:

1— Discussing moral dilemas for entertainment.

2— Making my thoughts public for the goverment to maybe find, so they know people like me are out there thinking this stuff, that we are not all fans of their laws, and wont take it forever.

” However, if someone tries to “only/just” ruin your life, so that your one and only life is wasted, an equivalent to death, you are not allowed to kill them to defend yourself. ”

Are you in chains? Enslaved?

Choices.

Someone with a knife in the here and now may leave you no choice.

Someone/thing ruining your life, as you describe it, gives you many choices to rectify this situation without violence

If the law said you could kill every sociopath that you encounter, you’d probably be lighting-up two or three people a month at work and firing bullets out your car window every night on the way home.

Unfortunately, it is not illegal to be an asshole.

It SHOULD be, but it isn’t….

@poisonedantidote I guess I miss the point. You’re already living with her. They are not preventing you from doing that, are they? Do you see a point in the future where they might separate you?

I know several couples who are worse off than you. They ARE married, but their respective governments won’t let them live together. Now that’s bad.

An honest person cannot have their life ruined by someone else. If there is a conflict, just move on.

@snowberry She is 8600 KM away, they are. It is mass segregation of the races, and bullshit to give the catholic church power, it should be a recognized violation of human rigths.

We are over 20k down, and no closer to a marriage or being together. The only way we can now do it, is to go live in the UK for 5 years after we meet up in denmark.

@general

I never chose where I was born, and I never agreed to obay any laws. There is no way to opt out of the system and live some place neutral free of laws, we are treated like cattle, and have things imposed on us by uninvited and unwanted people, who should have no say in our life. How do I not have a birth-right to smash an iron bar over each and every one of these fuckers heads? Not only do I fail to see how it is wrong or imorral to kill these pests, but I struggle to see how it is not my moral obligation, and everyone elses moral obligation, to wipe out these parasites.

@poisonedantidote Everyone has choices. If you choose to aspire to a certain standard of living, you automatically also choose to abide by the rules that allow you to live that way.

There are many ways to avoid all the rules and laws, and many people choose those ways. They pay whatever price is necessary; i.e. loss of physical amenities, loss of physical freedom, or loss of life.

OK then, what’s to prevent you from moving back to the UK somewhere? It sounds most expedient in the long run.

@snowberry I hate the UK, there is nothing preventing us to live there, but it is not my home, and it is not her home. The UK is a terrible place in my opinion, it depresses me to even be there, with the no smoking signs every 2 feet and all the other nonsense.

Not forgetting, we have already been prevented from living together for over 2 years now.

If they kept us appart an hour, I should at least have the right to punch one of them, not to mention 2 years.

The UK is a nighmate, it is the total opposite of what we want. There are more bullshit laws and little ruituals to the government there than almost any place I can think of.

Well… I say there is nothing preventing us, but there is, it is still no walk in the park. For example, after we are married in Denmark, I will have to post our marriage certificates to the UK, because if border control find out we are coming to the UK to live, she will not be allowed in to the country, even though the law clearly says that she would have a full right to come and live in the UK with me.

The point is really, they are all strangers, unwanted strangers. Why do these fucking NPC’s keep poping up and fucking with us.

I know how it looks, when I bash society and our things like airports, but we don’t need them, we don’t need any of this. We could buy a boat, or build one, and sail to where we need to go, but some fuck we never met before is bound to find a problem with that too, either on departure or arrival.

@general

I just don’t understand, why as a collective, humans that is, we allow this to continue. Why would anyone want to have a leader or boss or someone with power over them?

Never mind marrital law and immigration law, why do we allow anyone to impose any kind of rule on us at all?

Why not start killing until there is nothing left but equals?

( slowly backing out of this thread…)

@OneBadApple Don’t worry, I’ll keep your name off the note. lol

Thank you, sir….

I know we need laws, and I know in a way we need governments, and yes, even police and military. But the problem I have, is the law is 2 faced, its fake, bullshit written by some posers.

They act like they are noble, like the law is about these big words liek Justice, Honour, and blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, its more about keeping the cattle in check, and what politican gets what legacy or what money or gets to write what book after they retire.

Just… in my eyes, if the law that says i cant kill people, is enforced by the same pricks who made the immigration laws, it invalidates the entire legal system, and makes it more than fine to just get rid of these people.

No more pepper spray in the eyes of protesters, no more families broken up over immigration. Keep the laws about not killing and not stealing, and do away with all this other crap.

The conspiracy theorist in me, has a little theory about why I can’t get married yet.

In order to earn money, you must obey the government, do a job. For immigrants to get married, they need lots of money. By making it so immigrants need lots of money, only the most obedient ones will be allowed to breed. ... What if this is all some part of a bigger plan, to dumb down and sedate the population. To weed out people like me, who don’t agree to be governed. (over a long period of time)

Here’s an odd thought. What if you two signed on to work on a luxury cruise ship? Would it help if the cruise ship was registered in the UK? Captains are allowed to legally marry people onboard ships.

@snowberry We can get married in las vegas tomorrow. The problem is not that we can’t get married. It is that it is extremely hard and expensive and a legal battle, and even then, she can’t live here. They still want her to apply for visas that they know full well they are never going to grant (we tried).

For her to be able to live here, would take 7 years. (fast version).

There is no reason why any of this should take longer than an afternoon.

It is just the government, trying to segregate people, because it is not in their interest for all the races and nationalities to get to know each other and get allong. It is much harder to tell people to go murder some other people and take their oil, when they all look similar and know each other.

What the government is doing to us, and everyone else in our situation, is no accident, they made it like this on purpose. Things don’t get this hard just by chance.

When we try to plan a way to be together, you can tell, some fuck was just there before us, one step ahead, with roadblock signs.

If you had a right to come and live here in Spain, and you were married, you would have a legal right to bring your SO here too…. but don’t think just cause you are married in the USA, that you are married in Spain. And don’t think, that just because Spain and USA are both members of the Hague convention, and have agreed to recognize each others marriges as valid, that they actuall are.

They pick and choose, and at the end of the day, you do what they say.

Like I said before, I have no intention to storm the registry office and start killing. And while my girlfriend is just as dedicated to our plan and just as eager as ever, if this does ever lead to us breaking up through stress or we just end up prevented from being together, then you can expect a pretty big fucking crater to show up round here some place.

@general

I’ll drop in later, I am way off topic here, and too angry to make much sense or be too civilized. I’l go minecraft until I chill out.

Thanks for all the answers.

@snowberry That was discussed here before… interestingly, it’s not quite an urban myth that all captains have the right to marry people, but it’s not universally true, either. There are different rules in different countries.

@poisonedantidote In the rankings of “bad things one person can do to another”, killing someone rates much, much higher than not letting two people get married. This is so obvious that it shouldn’t even rate a discussion. I realize that you’re frustrated, but I’m not sure how you can seriously expect people here to offer you any other answer than this.

Hahaha…I find this incredibly funny and clever, and no, I refuse to give a serious answer.
My ex husband is long gone now, but if ever I could have killed, oh if ever…. lol

@glacial I know. I disagree about killing and preventing people from getting married being so different, but I know the answers I am going to get.

I am not looking for anyone to give me permission to go kill these people or anything, I actually did not even really intend for the question to play out this way, talking about the marriage problems.

But…. taking someones life… and fucking up their only one life so badly that it is not worth living, is practically the same thing.

I know also.. that there are many kinds of love, and many kinds of marriage. Some are the kind that leads to stories like Romeo and Juliette, the other the kind that leads to an average life for a few years followed by a divorce. I also know, that while it feels more like Romeo and Juliette at the moment, that it could one day just as easy end in a divorce.

However… for now, with my past experiences, my memories with her, and the sum of my life so far, their fucking with us is causing just as much distress, as sitting in a room on death row.

If the price to be with her, is that I have to be burned to death 1000 times before I can finally be reborn to be with her, my only question is do you have a flame thrower, napalm, or industrial oven, cause I am in a hurry.

I have had so many failed and fucked up relationships, but this one, is so many orders of magnitude better. I feel like we have been together since preschool, like I do with my friend Fernando.

If you ask a scientist, what is the meaning of life. He will probably tell you, that it is for species to succeed by breeding. In other words, what we are trying to do.

She is quite simply the meaning of life to me, my heroe, my only objective.

To separate us is worse than death.

If i can meet her, then eventually lose her, while we both feel this way, and don’t want to lose each other, then I rather my waste of a life had just been aborted at the start, and saved us all a lot of time and effort.

I know I come across very bitter at the moment, but I do appreciate the answers guys, don’t think I am trying to contradict you just for the hell of it or something.

It is 4am, and I am alone with no one to talk to, while I do the daily routine of wait until 5:30am, so we can discuss our research and marriage plans for the day. We are up to about 100 pages of text now, all in an effort to figure out a way to get back together for good, instead of this insane yoyo stuff that costs 1000’s.

Haven’t read the rest of the answers yet.

Because it is only a perception that someone else is, or is capable of ruining your life. You have multiple avenues to deal with some one who is causing you trouble (for real or just in your perception) If you do something differently, choose a different course of action, go somewhere else, in effect, change how you are reacting to this person, then things will change. If you just kill that person, then you are guilty of a much worse “taking of life.”

@poisonedantidote, I thought she was there with you. I remember the drama of her escaping her parents and flying halfway around the world to meet you. Isn’t she still there?

@Jeruba No, she was only allowed to be here 90 days. And the dumb bitch who told us we could get our marriage appointment after 3 weeks, actually meant to say 6 months plus a load of other excuses.

For her own safety, I sent her back to Taiwan with a friend. Her parents still think she is in Germany, but she is actually about 100 miles or so away from them.

If she had stayed here longer, she would have become illegal, and would no longer get medical treatment for free. It would take 3 years of her being illegal before we could try to make her legal, and if she got deported, she would not be able to return for 3, 5 or 10 years depending on why she got deported.

If it was me who had to live illegal, I would go for it. There is not much change I will be getting pregnant in the next 3 years, and I could risk it. But I rather she be in Taiwan and safe, than with me and in danger of some kind.

She has not been here, since September. we had 3 months together, and then we have to be appart 3 months, then she can come back 3 months, and so on.

She has a flight back now, for mid December, when she is next legally allowed to return here.

I really think if things go wrong this time, you will see me on the news, I just about had enough of this crap.

We have known each other for almost 7 years now, but thanks to a bunch of fuckheads in suits that don’t like the ching-chong people walking around, we have only managed to spend about 3 of those 7 years actually together.

If someone allows a person to ruin their lives, then they’re equally guilty on general principle alone. Extremely weak to lend such an influence over one’s life.

@ragingloli was correct with her response. You’ve equated “not being able to have what you want in the form that you want it” with “life ruin”. It’s a false premise, based on that false equivalence. But it gets worse. You posited “someone trying to ruin your life”. Again, I very much doubt that whoever is enforcing whatever rules you don’t like is making this personal on you. They care not a whit for your life, but they care for their rules. “Enforcing our rules” does not equate to “trying to ruin your life”.

Obviously I don’t know all of the details of your struggle, and all of the rules that are being enforced by others to your detriment. Still, it seems to me that you get far too enmeshed in the details of a particular disagreement / rule enforcement / country / preference for a certain type of relationship, etc. and fail to look at a bigger picture or attack the problem from a different angle.

I wish you well, but you have to get outside of the box you keep putting yourself into, and de-personalize your differences with others. A lot of rule enforcers will tell you the way around them, if you ask nicely. But you have to cultivate a relationship with them – convince them that you’re worth taking a chance on – before they will do that.