Social Question

Darbio16's avatar

Who believes that the President and Congress are just puppets for the people really running the show?

Asked by Darbio16 (767points) August 23rd, 2009

Just a question. The lack of attention to the Constitutional laws we have combined with runaway spending indicate to me that there is a power much greater than the President. Agree or disagree?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

40 Answers

avengerscion's avatar

Politics are very time consuming to follow. As a general rule, yes – I believe the President has very little say in the overall scheme of things. So many things happen before the President is able to view the information, and because he is supposed to trust the people below him to make the best decision, things get passed due to a lack of time. The President cannot possibly sit in on every debate/vote that occurs. However, I would not say that he or Congress are ‘puppets.’

ABoyNamedBoobs03's avatar

the most unsettling part that I find in american politics, is that I literally have no idea either way… they could be acting on their own accord, or they could be pulling strings for their campaign supporters, you just don’t know.

PerryDolia's avatar

We have the best government money can buy. Corporations have the bucks. Corporate execs make the donations, get the people elected, who write the laws to the advantage of the corporations. Then, the corps can say they are doing “everything required by law.”

You will never hear a politician say anything bad about his corporate sponsors.

dpworkin's avatar

Who doesn’t? Fourth graders?

Darbio16's avatar

Fascism is alive and well here, its true

filmfann's avatar

No way. I LOVE puppets.

Garebo's avatar

PerryDolia and Darbio sum it up for me. Yes, what we have now, is corporate fascism, and it appears it will continue so.

jaketheripper's avatar

@Darbio16 dude everything you say cracks me up. It’s not like any one of your ideas are completely unfathomable but when you put it all together I can’t help but think you lined your house with tin foil and loosely related newspaper clippings.

wundayatta's avatar

Yes, who are the Congress and President puppets for? Those who put them there. Of course, that’s a motley bunch, who all have competing interests—even the corporations are fighting each other tooth and nail.

Still, it’s so much easier to make sense out of the world by thinking it’s all a conspiracy of a select few. It means you don’t have to think much any more. Put on your tinfoil hat and point your raygun at the underground vault where the aliens are pulling all the strings.

dpworkin's avatar

@daloon there is no secret who the power elite are in this nation. They are the Congressional-Military-Industrial complex, Wall Street, Big Agro, and Big Pharma. That’s not paranoia, that’s just paying quotidian attention and not being a moron.

wundayatta's avatar

@pdworkin And they all march in lockstep. I got it.

dpworkin's avatar

Of course not. That isn’t necessary. They all have shared interests: less regulation, lower interest rates, lower Corporate taxes, etc.

Apply some elementary economic theory. It isn’t so abstruse. Otherwise I shall have to think that you are either disingenuous or stupid. You are neither of those things, are you?

tullbejm's avatar

You shouldn’t ask those kinds of questions… the Free Masons will get you or maybe even the Bilderberg-ers

Sampson's avatar

It is not who we elect that is in control, necessarily.

They could change the status quo, but seek not to because they are part of the machinery.

The American people are the true puppets. Blindly voting for whomever Coca-Cola and McDonald’s approves of.

But I don’t think that the status quo is an organized machine. There is no structure, just parts moving towards the same goal in an anarchistic orgy of greed and gluttony.

rreppa's avatar

It’s a classic divide and conquer strategy. The American people are distracted between Democrat or Republican: two sides of the same collectivist coin. The real issues don’t get addressed while those in power focus on how to stay in power. Like the title from the popular utube video says “the man behind the curtain” is the one in power.

filmfann's avatar

@rreppa welcome to fluther. Lurve.

IchtheosaurusRex's avatar

You can make an argument that paid lobbyists have more to do with running Washington than voters do, but I would stop short of proclaiming Congress to be puppets. That term would be more applicable to, say, the governments of Soviet Bloc countries during the cold war.

wilbert's avatar

who knows, who is running who, I think circumstances have more to do and how politicians who made promises they can’t keep is because either corporations or opposition will make sure it will never happen

mattbrowne's avatar

It seems that the folks spinning conspiracy theories are running the show for some people.

Darbio16's avatar

You mean CNN and Fox?

filmfann's avatar

@mattbrowne So they got to you too?

mattbrowne's avatar

@filmfann – I’m trying to outrun them…

NowWhat's avatar

@Darbio16 You’re right to a degree, Darbio. The president just says things, and his people act on their own- hanging on every word they say. Kind of like the Constitution, liberals somehow invented the separation of church and state, and other prosecutions from “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

dpworkin's avatar

@NowWhat Could you kindly explain what the establishment clause means if it doesn’t mean that the founders wished to separate Church and State? Kindly give historical citations. Thanks.

jaketheripper's avatar

It meant there could be no national religion like the one they had just escaped in England. It didn’‘t say anything about a state religion or blending of the two. For a while there Rhode Island was a catholic state. I think there were others but im not sure. I know you asked for links but I’m lazy right now sorry…

dpworkin's avatar

That seems like a distinction without a difference. In my opinion, the separation of Church an State is one of the prime reasons we have remained such a religious society. The State kills religion.

jaketheripper's avatar

I think it was intended to protect religious freedom. Not in the sense that we use the term today. It protected peoples rights to believe and vocalize beliefs other than the current majority regardless of how politically connected to the state the church was.

NowWhat's avatar

@pdworkin You’re just a liberal looking for an argument. Read the Constitution, that’s my citation. Also, the Federalist papers and Jefferson’s letters. If you still don’t understand, you don’t want to know. Done talking with you.

dpworkin's avatar

@NowWhat Odd that you would come to a discussion forum to say that. I am a student of American History, and I have immersed myself in the Federalist Papers. I have also spent a great deal of time with Toqueville, I carry a copy of the Constitution with me.

If you are also a scholar of the same documents and the same period, I’m sure we could have a very illuminating discussion.

I would certainly be interested in hearing your exegesis of the Federalist Papers, and I hope you will take the time to favor us with your views. Perhaps you have already written a paper to which you could refer us, or which you could copy and paste here. I hope you will change your mind, and contribute to everyone’s education.

filmfann's avatar

@pdworkin : NowWhat has a habit of walking away from a discussion when he realizes he is on the losing side. You won’t win this. Forget it, Jake, its Chinatown.

dpworkin's avatar

I was hoping we could all win, by benefiting from his knowledge and wisdom. Wouldn’t that be the best possible outcome?

filmfann's avatar

That is the cool thing about this site.

NowWhat's avatar

@pdworkin Sure, since you’re civil about it. Here’s an old article I had published earlier this year. I took out some things because I don’t want any wierdos looking me up.

The New Segregation

Yes, we’ve finally raised the bar for equality in race relations in America and elected our first black president, but history is going in reverse for many Americans as we know it; having our liberties swept from under our feet, and our founding principles trampled as we live the new segregation called, “separation of church and state.” The First Amendment reads:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

In reading the First Amendment, observe how the freedom of speech is a right given to protect people from the government; and the press with its liberties meant as a watchdog on the government; and the people having the right to protest and disagree with the government. Now, look at the most debated and misunderstood right at the top of the list in this Amendment, and discern what makes it different from the others; at least by today’s “standards.”

The __ ____ had an interesting article stating that Mayor __ ____ would not run for reelection, citing that one of his accomplishments was moving the Ten Commandments to a place with less visibility; in other words, he compromised against the Constitution’s intent. Not to downplay the positive impact he may have had on the city, but this is just an example of how close to home this article will be.

All of these rights, to include the freedom of religion, are meant to protect the people from the government; not the government from the people, but when this fundamental principle is ignored, the ideas themselves become whatever people want them to be, and in this case, the separation of church and state.

This idea is from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to Baptists who initially wrote him a letter of support after his election with the words, “…thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”

Just as politics are today, they were vicious then, too. Jefferson’s opponents labeled him as an atheist since he would not take steps to impose a religious establishment as president, but this did not mean that Jefferson believed that religion had no place in American Government.

As a federalist, Jefferson understood that the power to construct religious practices and customs was delegated to the states, not the federal government. His critics scorned him for making such a reversal in policy, since he established days for prayer and fasting as governor of his state.

The wall of which Jefferson spoke of is actually between the federal government and the states and their respective customs. In this context, the State, being a sovereign country; as opposed to a state, or territory within a sovereign country, is the federal government. The separation is the obvious reference to federalism and the powers separately granted to the states; meaning that Jefferson understood that in creating an establishment would be usurping the rights delegated to the states.

The federal government has increased its size and influence in the areas which should be the absolute rights of the states, and has begun a foreseeable path towards socialism.

Many fail to understand that compliance with the federal government is never in the states’ interest, as the Framers have set them up to be rivals; but many at the state and local government levels have forgotten that the states created the federal government, and are constitutionally entitled to publically fund and promote religion no matter what the federal government does.

Today, we face yet another form of segregation which is different from our past history; where Christians are passively prohibited the free exercise of their religion through government institution and expansion of the reach of government.

This submissive form of coercion has led to a silent majority of Christians who feel that their rights have been trampled on by those who claim to represent them, local or state. The states have submitted to the will of the federal government by adopting a distorted idea of Jefferson ’s letter, and throughout the year, Christians are reminded of that as school districts, boroughs, townships, and state governments prohibit the mention of Jesus Christ and references to Christianity routinely.

Creating barriers between government and religion was not the intent of the Founding Fathers in the least. Just as the people and the press are the watchdogs against the government, so should be religion. We are and should be proud of breaking racial barriers in the Land’s highest public office, which demonstrates America’s ability to overcome its weaknesses. Sadly, we are in need of institutional reform in all levels of government, to avoid a catastrophic breach of trust between the people and its government in relations to religious freedom.

Separating Christianity from the rest of public life is only the beginning of this segregation period, and unlike our past mistake, this one knows no color.

filmfann's avatar

I am a Christian, and I do not feel my religion is supressed at all.
Of course there is no prayer in schools. It is a government function, and we need that seperation. The same goes for religious displays on Government locations. In my area, every year a cross was lit up on a hill, well seen from the freeway. People complained that the cross was on government land, and needed to be removed. Instead, the government sold the land to a private citizen, and he has maintained the cross since then. Crisis averted.
Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion, and I do not feel my religious beliefs have been separated from the rest of public life.

dpworkin's avatar

I am a Jew, and I am old enough to remember exclusionary deeds on homes, resorts that advertised “Hebrews Not Served” and “Jew” quotas in State Universities. How do you feel about these instances of the freedom of the States to set religious regulation?

growler's avatar

I think that by this point the system has become so bulky that it is practically a sentient being in and of itself. We are all puppets, existing only to serve and please our master, the Omnipotent Complex Legislative-Executive Organism.

Kraigmo's avatar

I agree. The lobbyists write the laws. There’s some benevolent lobbyists, but not many.

Furthermore, there is a group of entrenched bureaucrats who, upon the President’s first day in office, take the President into a back room and sit him down and tell him, “Now this is how it’s going to be, and if you don’t play ball, we won’t be able to protect you and your family…”

Answer this question




to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther