Would you ever consider having a permanent method of birth control?

My husband had a vasectomy way back in the 70’s after our 2nd daughter was born. It was a mutual decision & we’ve never regretted it.

I had to ask my Ob-GYN for years before he would agree to perform a tubal ligation on me. And that was after I nearly died from an ectopic rupture.

Yes, I’d consider it. Eventually I’ll want to have sex and not worry about getting pregnant ever again.

My husband will be the one to get the surgery. It’s much easier and less expensive for the male. He’ll get a vasectomy when we decide to stop having children. We’ll probably have another child(a third) and after the birth, he’ll get the procedure. He is completely okay with it.

If anything, it would make me feel less obligated to be the one to do all the hormonal birth control. But, I have issues with cysts and a large family history of endometriosis, so if I end up needing a hysterectomy..I won’t be too devastated.

It wasn’t an option for me. I was born with permanent birth control. It was only the development of sophisticated fertility technology that allowed me to have children who are genetically related to me. “Permanent birth control” sometimes can be reversed, and even if a vasectomy can’t be reversed, the guy could still undergo an operation like mine and have a child.

I think you’d have to really be absolutely certain you never wanted children. Still, it’s like a tattoo—once you’ve gotten it, it is extremely difficult to get rid of it. People believe they will always want the tattoo when they are young, and then, later on, they decide it was a mistake. Young people who are considering this are so sure they know they never want children. Yet, minds can and do change. I’d go for temporary measures, just in case, just as would rather have a temporary tattoo, just in case I change my mind later.

Yes. my face.

After two kids, yeah, snip snip goes the vasectomy. From a memetic standpoint, there’s no need to reproduce if you spread your ideas far enough.

I think it’s a great option, if you already have a family. If you don’t have any kids yet, what if you regret the decision later?

I’ve considered tubal ligation and Alex has considered a vasectomy – both of us backed out of these procedures because of the possible side effects – in effect, tubal ligation really messes up your body’s natural hormonal balance and I know that’d have an effect on me as I respond to shifts like that with mental illness – and in terms of the vasectomy the chances of a lowered sex drive or lowered ability to get it hard or what have you is a downer and so we stick, for now, to condoms and random not usage of condoms…it’s all right for now because we do want more children

@Facade – funny how this relates to what I was just saying to you in another thread. In my 20s, I was 100% without a doubt positive that I never, ever wanted to have kids, no way, no how, it would never happen, and there was nothing on earth that could get me to change my mind. I was as certain of this as I was that the sun rose in the east and set in the west. I would have considered undergoing a vasectomy if my girlfriend (now wife) had not been willing to go on the pill. And had I done so, I can’t tell you how deep my regret would be now as a 38 year old father of an 8 year old son.

And were I some unique case in the anals of human psychology, that would be one thing, but I most assuredly am not. There was a girl I was chasing throughout high school and college whom I never managed to get beyond the just friends stage with, but it made me want her even more when she told me she too never wanted kids. She now has 4. I have cousins who when we were younger all agreed that the NEVER wanted kids, who now have 1, 2, sometimes 3 kids. I have friends from high school and college with whom I’ve reconnected who were dead set against ever having kids, who now have kids.

I used to rationalize it and say that I’ve looked at the issue from every possible angle, and I know that who I am will never fundamentally change so much that I’m going to suddenly want something I never wanted before. I used to think that frankly people were stupid and just giving in to these biological derivatives when they could lead much happier and fulfilling lives without having such a massive responsibility and hassle. I used to be the first one in a restaurant to wonder out loud why the parents didn’t bring a muzzle with them. I didn’t “hate” kids, but it was pretty damn close. Kids in fact have always gravitate towards me, and I just thought of them as nuisances…when a kid would approach me I’d want it to go away sooner rather than later.

But, and I KNOW even if someone told me this exact thing when I was 25, I’d have said, whatever, but after you live this non kid lifestyle for a while, you actually DO grow tired of it. You DO start to wonder if there is more to life. You DO start to think about reliving your own childhood vicariously through the eyes of a little version of yourself. You DO start to think about idealistic goals of imparting your values to another human. You start to see the fulfilment in things that when your’e in your 20s just sound excruciatingly dull and difficult.

But as much as you can guarantee anything, I guarantee that you’re more than 99% likely to change your mind at some point in your life. The fun of what you are doing now will start to lose its luster and in your process of self discovery that comes along with greater age and wisdom will come these facets to the concept of parenthood that had never occurred to you, or which you at very least never saw from that angle. Now, not EVERYONE chooses to have kids, some stay kid free forever, but even a good share of those people regret it from time to time.

Bottom line is, you could be right….human nature dictates that you are more likely wrong than right however, and as someone who professed in the other thread to looking at the kids issue using logic and facts, well logic and facts should dictate to you that no matter WHAT you feel today, there are billions of examples of people who thought the way you did, thought they would never change their minds, but then did. Fact is, you don’t know what you don’t know, and as they say, better safe than sorry, and I believe that the simple fact that the experience of other humans leads almost invariable to the conclusion that one has made a life altering mistake when undergoing such a procedure when they were not emotionally ready for children should give you pause.

@dalepetrie I think it’s pointless is trying to change her mind. But I do think @Facade should look into semi permanent birth control options, such as the IUD before getting surgery. It lasts 5 years and we all know a lot can change in 5 years.

@dalepetrie and just like I told you on the other thread, your experience is not universal and you can’t imagine hers would be like yours, that’s ridiculous

@dalepetrie That does hold true for most people, but I’m not most people. I’d also appreciate it if you stopped telling me I will change my mind. Thanks.

@Facade and @casheroo – I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. I’m trying to point out similarities between what what you, @Facade are saying now and what I and others like me said when we were younger, and what life actually had in store for us. I’m telling you that if you do, as you say, use logic to reach conclusions, then a logical argument for not doing this is x. Seems to me that you didn’t want to hear my answer, you just wanted someone to validate your feelings. All I’m going to say, then I’m going to shut up is, you may or may not change your mind some day…I’m not trying to make you change it now, because I know you won’t, I wouldn’t have either. And if you are sincere about soliciting advice as to why or why you should or shouldn’t go this route, then the honest answer is in my opinion you should not, because you don’t know, nor do I, what the future holds for you, what you will want when the future happens. And I’m pointing out that no matter what you think, neither you or I (or anyone else for that matter) can predict that, and that if you are sincere about approaching this decision logically, then the fact that you don’t know what you don’t know should give you pause from making an irreversible decision. Next time, I will appreciate it if YOU would not ask for opinions if you don’t actually WANT them.

And @Simone_De_Beauvoir – if you’d really read what I said you would see that I never insinuated or implied, much less said that her experience would be like mine. I SAID that no one knows what the future holds for themselves or anyone else, and all I can do is speak to the past experience I’ve personally had AND the past experiences of others which I’ve observed. Take it or leave it, but don’t put words in my mouth.

@dalepetrie I did read all that you said, I love to read what people say, believe me. It’s just that the overall gist is such that you’re (and I’m sure with kind intentions) pitying her situation a little bit and saying ‘oh yes little girl you just wait’...did you write that no? but did it feel like that? yes..ask her yourself

I want to do that (but I am kind of hesitant to let people operate on my junk) in case I ever change my mind about having children. To keep me safe from my future self (yes I know you can get it reversed, but I want to put as many obstacles in the way of me having children as I can)

@benjaminlevi and besides there are cases when it can’t be reversed

For me, personally – heck yes!
why? my one and only stab at procreating turned out nicely, and one is enough.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – sorry, but I can’t be held responsible for what you (or others) read into my comments that was never there nor was it intended to be there. I gave advice and I never once said anything that I feel was meant out of a sense of pity. I would feel bad for someone who made an irreversable decision and then changed her mind, and I think it’s very appropriate to point that out as a potential consequence given that one does not know what one does not know. As I see it, those jumping all over my answers and criticising me are doing so for what they’re reading into my responses, and I’m calling bullshit on you for it.

@dalepetrie sure you can feel bad but I’m sure a person in her position has considered this very OBVIOUS fact, the fact that clearly she might change her mind later and that clearly permanent birth control is quite drastic…having yet another person, except this time a random on the internet, point that out in a thread that didn’t ask for it is unnecessary…

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – “Didn’t ask for it?”

Re-read the question, my friend.

Would you ever consider having a permanent method of birth control? Yes or no?
Why or why not?

Why would I assume she’s thought deeply about how she might feel in the future. Do you remember being in your 20s? Did you ever live in the now? Didn’t you have this concrete sense of certainty that you would always be the same person. And didn’t time change you in ways you could never have begun to imagine in your 20s? Yes, it’s clear to a person like myself that this is true, but I personally didn’t have the life experience to understand this in any but the most abstract of ways at that age. I am saying in my 20s, I would have argued up, down and sideways that I was NEVER, EVER going to change my mind. It is this type of certitude with which one asks a question like this. I simply tried to point out that there are things unimaginable that she may have neither the life experience nor the conceptual framework to fathom at this time, and it’s not about logically delving into the question with the information you have at hand today, it’s about covering the bases. This is why a person ASKS a question like this on Fluther, for the EXACT reason that people can impart their life experiences and widsom from an EMPATHETIC standpoint. Considering that her attitude as expressed is almost verbatim as what mine was up until about 10 years ago, I feel that I am a person who can perhaps illustrate, not from a judgemental “when you gonna have kids” point of view, but from a learned, point of view, imbued with real life experience, and observation of numerous others in extremely similar circumstances to point out that what one wants now can, and by all odds probably will change at some point, and therefore it is unwise to make permanent decisions based soley on your present circumstance. Anything beyond that is I feel your bringing your attitudes to the table, and not looking at what I’m actually saying.

Nope. Personally I don’t believe in using typical birth control but me and my husband are very responsible and don’t have the issue of being overly fertile. If, in the future, that did become a problem I might reconsider my options.

Why not? It is just part of a personal, complicated, belief system I have. I read a great book that discusses how these type of options can be a form of oppression (I had my beliefs before the book but she articulated some of the reasons quite well). It is called “Conquest” and it is by Andrea Smith.

@dalepetrie you really have some assumptions about people in their 20s and assumptions about what one will value in life later on – I have never lived my life with certainty, if that helps, and I am 25…so what?

Yes and I did. It was a condition of getting married that either my fiancee or I would be sterilized; he willingly chose to have a vasectomy since the down time is just a few days for men. Upon becoming divorced I had a tubal ligation and wish it had been an easy, relatively painless procedure.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – then it’s perhaps a situation that you too have not yet experienced enough of life to really conceptualize what I’m talking about. So what? Well, what I’m saying is when I was 25 I would have argued exactly what you are arguing now. I did not believe I led my life with certainty, but in retrospect, I see I had deeply held convictions about who I was, what I wanted, how I felt, what I believed, and what I anticipated from the future. Some of these convictions turned out to be very accurate, while others were way off based. If you’d asked me, even at the time I would have been able to admit I don’t know what I don’t know, but what’s happened in the intervening 13 years has really made me understand what that means on a more deep and personal philosophical level. I do not make assumptions about people in their 20s as you put it, I reflect on my own mindset and the attitudes of my peers from when I was in my 20s and what I see now and saw then about the culture of people in their 20s and I draw some conclusions based on life experience.

I will not condescend to you and say, “you’re too young to understand”, but there is some truth to that, and I wouldn’t have wanted to hear that when I was 25, I might react in a resentful manner, akin to what I believe you are doing right now. When I say the things I say, it’s not out of some sense of superiority in that I’ve lived more life and therefore my opinions are more valid, it’s just that I’ve been there/done that…I’ve seen countless examples of people who have been there/done that, and one observation I feel qualified to make, just like I’d feel qualified to speak as a knowledgable person in my career now that I have 15 years of experience doing my line of work, that when you are 25, it’s impossible to conceptualize who you will be when you’re 30. And when you’re 30 it’s impossible to conceptualize who you will be when you’re 40. I have to imagine as someone who is 38, I can imagine until the cows come home who I will be at age 50, but I won’t know till I get there. And perhaps it’s the fact that I’ve had to come to the terms with the crushing realization that no matter how certain I was about who I was when I was 25 ultimately had some glaring inaccuracies, and I’m GLAD that I did not make any permanent decisions in regards to the rest of my life based solely on the attitudes and opinions I had at the time, because that WOULD have led to great regrets. So villify me all you want, say I’m just like all the other old farts who think they know what’s best for the younger generation when they really don’t, but with age does come experience, with experience does come wisdom, and I’m simply responding to a question asked with my honest life experience, trying to impart wisdom that no one should feel ashamed of not yet having lived long enough to have, nor should anyone feel offended that it’s being given in a judgemental manner.

If you really want to empathize with me, consider do you know any 12 year olds at this time in your life who are close to you in any way, frends, family, siblings, whatever? And have any of them expressed desires which you yourself as a 12 year old had when you were that age, but which at age 25 you can now see why it would be a mistake for this 12 year old to act on those desires. Can you remember what it was like to feel like you know what’s best for yourself and you aren’t going to listen to someone older, because they don’t know what it’s like. Can you now on the other side of that mirror say to yourself, OK, this is what I DIDN’T get. And hey, it was natural for me not to get that, I was after all only 12. But it was ALSO natural for me to have that desire. Imagine trying to get through to that 12 year old…you would if you heard them saying the exact same things that came out of your mouth at that age, things which seemed to be the 100% undisputable truth at the time, but things which at age 25 you know are misguided. THEN you might understand what I’m seeing from where I sit.

Like I said, take it or leave it. When I was 25 I wouldn’t have listened to me either.

I have one. It’s called “menopause.” :-)

@dalepetrie you are very patronizing and I am not listening to you not because I am 25 and you’re however old but because you assume so much – I do no presume that 12 years olds that sound just like I did when I was 12 will come to understand the things I’ve come to understand – my life trajectory has been unconventional in many ways, I have accomplished a lot, probably more than you imagine (since you make a judgment of people in the 20s) and yet I, more than you, have learned that there is no such thing as typical

In Dale’s defense, I really don’t think he’s being as condescending/patronizing as some of you think. In my reading of this (and the other) thread, all I really get out of his posts is: Don’t assume you will always feel this way, because you might not. I was going to say something along the same lines.

@augustlan well you may know him better (i’m assuming here) and so your reading is colored by that fact but I am just explaining how it comes off to some others of us – and whenever anyone says to anyone ‘oh how old are you? oh I see well don’t think you’ll always feel this way because you won’t’ that is patronizing – how do you not see that…would you want someone to tell that to you, no matter your age?

At this point in my life, it’s difficult for me to answer this. I’ve been using (temporary) birth control methods since I’ve been sexually active and not really found them to be too much of a hassle, so right now I’d have to go with no. I’d rather go with something like an IUD that last several years and then re-evaluate the situation at that point.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir No, I understand where you are coming from… but he’s not saying “Oh, you’re young… you will change your mind.” What he’s saying (at least it seems so to me) is “Oh, you’re young… you might change your mind. At your age, I didn’t think I would, either – and would have been offended by someone suggesting otherwise. But, I did change my mind. You might, too. Don’t do anything permanent just yet.”

@augustlan the difference between those words, I’m gathering, seems to solve the issue for you but, to me (and can we just drop it here? for god’s sake) it STILL sounds patronizing and the moment I say something like that to someone, I hope I shake my head and say ‘god, how obnoxious am I’ – I mean I have told people of any age they might change their mind but usually it’s in response to them soliciting me for advice on a matter…and they were close friends…asking about permanent birth control is not the same as asking for advice about something that the OP already understands to be truth – which is, for her, that she’s is not going to have children…

look at it this way – every time I got a tattoo when I was young, people said I might change my mind about them later, it was annoying – it’s been almost a decade and I’m still getting tattoos…wanna tell me for another decade that I will change my mind…oh maybe when I finish school, my mother would say, or maybe when I’d have my first kid…or first job…or get married…oh wait…

Is it really important to people that their children be biologically related to them?

@benjaminlevi with my first bio child that wasn’t important, just did what was expected
with my second child it was important that he was a combination of Alex and myself
from this point on it’s not important

@benjaminlevi That is a good point. Adoption is always a possibility if you change your mind.

@hungryhungryhortence Do you know if your ex regretted his decision to get the vasectomy, since you two divorced?

@casheroo: He says to this day he has no regrets and being best friends of 24yrs, I do believe him. Now, his 2nd wife had issues about it since she wanted to have a baby.

I had a vasectomy 20 years ago. What a nightmare! My testies swelled to the size of 2 grapefruit, and I couldn’t button my pants. I planned ahead, so I worked the boss’ desk while he took a week off, and I sat behind the desk with my pants lowered. Someone comes in and needs something? I will meet you outside. Give me a minute.

@Augustlan – thank you, you’ve hit it on the head. I’ve been condescending to no one and I’ve said all along exactly what you read, not what @Simone_De_Beauvoir ass/u/med I said. I think what sums it up perfectly is “but usually it’s in response to them soliciting me for advice on a matter” which is what a question on Fluther is. I’ve said all along, take it or leave it, I’m simply trying to impart what I’ve learned about making concrete decisions about major life issues when there is a chance you might change your mind. Nothing more, nothing less. But I appear to have provoked what I consider to be rather irrational ire at daring to give an answer on a question and answer forum. Having said that, I’ll make this suggestion and shut up about it. If you don’t know what I’m talking about @Simone_De_Beauvoir, take a piece of paper and on it, write down the URL of this discussion. Then under it, write down a couple brief paragraphs describing who you think you are and what you think you want out of life. Then give it to your best friend and ask that person to give it back to you on your 35th birthday. Beyond that, so it’s perfectly clear, I have no more interest in trying to defend myself against what someone thinks I might have meant, because just like Horton, I meant what I said and I said what I meant. I stand behind everything I’ve said 100%, and it was advice that was solicited and freely given. The question being would I have a permanent method of birth control done…answer, no I would not. Why or why not…because I don’t know what I don’t know. I personally right NOW have no desire to ever have another child, but I’m not getting snipped because 10 years ago I didn’t think I wanted one and I changed my mind, and since I don’t know what the future brings, even though I feel 100% confident that I will not change my mind again, I don’t know what I don’t know. Take it or leave it, but that IS my answer, it is an HONEST and SINCERE answer, it is not insulting, condescending or in any way attacking the asker, nor is it attempting to change her mind about whether or not to have kids, nor is it in any way insensitive to the fact that all people should make their own decisions, period, end of discussion, and it was an answer that was solicited by this question. And if YOU have a problem with it, the operative word here is YOU.

Early in my second marriage, my husband told me he didn’t want any more children. He formally adopted my son, and had a vasectomy. We became part of the local foster care program. I lost him after 9½ years of marriage. After I had a child with my third husband, I had a tubal ligation.

I had a c-section with both my kids. I told the doctor on my first visit with my second child that I wanted my tubes tied when I had the baby. It was the smartest thing I ever did.

I don’t understand the hostility towards @dalepetrie. He’s just giving his opinion and is not being condescending at all imo. Being 38 myself, I know that I am a completely different person from what I was like at the age of 25. People change as they grow older. Who knows what I’ll be like when I am 45? Only time will tell.

@dalepetrie You’re wasting your breath in trying to talk to some of these people. It’s like talking to a wall.

@filmfann Wow. That had to be miserable. Most surgeries don’t turn out that way.

@casheroo ‘Tis true what @hungryhungryhortence says – I have no regrets having had my vasectomy before we married. I guess I didn’t realize that it was a condition of our marriage as she suggests, but one of us was going to be sterile, and I chose to do it since it was a comparatively simple procedure.

I’m still not ready for kids (20 years after getting the snip), though I guess I wouldn’t mind so much if I did have one. They can be kinda cool, sometimes. However, I am glad the procedure held during my second marriage. It’s hard enough giving her $2000/month now; I can only imagine what my life would be if I had to pay child support, too.

Now that I am singlish again (separated), I’m happy to have that worry out of my mind.

@ru2bz46 Oh, I have no doubt, she would know the guy better than I would! I was just curious if he ever expressed regret, and I’m glad he did it for himself and not marriage. I have an ex who got a vasectomy while we dated, he did it behind my back big red flag when he was I believe only 23. I often wonder if he’ll ever regret it, but I think he’d do adoption before bio kids anyways.
And holy crap! 2k a month?! I will never understand alimony :(

@casheroo 23 seems to be a popular age. That’s when I got chopped and @hungryhungryhortence and I were both 23 when we married a few months later.

We knew the vasectomy was the right decision for us, but we didn’t tell our families right away. When we did tell them, they were not happy; however, a few years later, when my older siblings kept having more and more babies, my mom said to us, “Maybe it’s a good thing that you two decided not to have any…” Lol!

@ru2bz46 Haha, I forgot you two had been married! I’m sorry that I was talking about you like you weren’t here.
Did you guys have to do psychological testing? My ex did, he had to get a note from a psychiatrist to show he was of sound mind to make such a big decision! I thought it was crazy. My father had one after I was born, and my parents said the doctors told him he was too young (25) but my parents just could not afford any more children, so I think the doctors gave in.

@dalepetrie ass/u/med? really, that’s pretty mature, can’t wait till I’m your age.

@casheroo We had looked into it earlier, but my insurance at the time required the psych testing, which was extra, and we couldn’t afford the testing AND another $200 for the snip. Later, I got Kaiser insurance, and they just required a group seminar, then the doctor asked me why I wanted the procedure. It was cake and only cost a $5 co-pay.

Lol! Your father had one after you were born; my father had one BEFORE I was born (to answer your question, I look and act exactly like him). My parents decided to stop after five, but I was determined. My “lucky” dad got to get snipped again! I guess it’s his genes that made all my siblings so damned fertile.

I’m 35, and have 2 lovely children. My wife & I jointly decided that we were happy with the 2 we have, and that she’s done enough of the hard work and so it was my turn to do the final act. Snippety snip!

Roll the clock forward 4 weeks from the simple operation & all’s healed up nicely…until…

The fateful morning started with our 3-year-old daughter climbing into our bed, rolling over her mum to give her dad a hug, What actually happened was she rolled off her mum & kicked her dad straight in the knackers. Ouch! It hurt a lot but I soldiered on until mid-morning at work when the pain had become unbearable. I couldn’t stand up, & sitting down was also difficult.

Cutting a long story short(er), I spent a week in hospital on morphine with a testicle the size of a tennis ball, and as hard as one too (not a joke!!). Hospital discharged me following various scans saying it was “tissue swelling” rather than fluid, which amazed me. I was off work for 2 more weeks unable to walk due to the intense pain, until finally one night the product of my internal bleeding burst through the weakest point it could find… the fully healed scar from my vasectomy. Nice!

6 months later I’m almost back to normal, and will now have a great “father of the bride” speech in the future when my darling little girl finds her own man to torment!

If you’re going to have a vasectomy, buy yourself a Cricket box (protector) and wear it for a good 8 weeks following the operation. You can’t be too careful!!!

@chelsea_steve I want to cringe and laugh at the same time. That must have been awful!

@chelsea_steve That sucks! I had a somewhat long recovery myself, but it was my own fault (well, part @hungryhungryhortence‘s fault, too). The doctor told me to go home, crawl into bed for 48 hours, THEN I could get up and use the bathroom. Sure, he exaggerated, but only to protect me.

So, we went home, and I crawled into bed. Then she crawled into bed. I felt pretty good. She felt even better. I think you can see where this is going. The next morning, we did more of the same, then went shopping downtown. We parked the car, then walked over 40 blocks to various stores. That night, after more of what we did in the morning, I drove us to Reno (120 miles) for the Friday night seafood buffets. I had a manual transmission, so there was a lot of clutch work involved. Then we drove home (120 miles), and continued the indoor sports we had come to enjoy so much. The next day, we simply stayed in bed. I just couldn’t get any rest.

In fact, we completed the required 20 ejaculations for the post-vas sperm count in under two weeks. About 4 days after surgery, I could barely walk. We didn’t tell our families about the operation, so I had to make up an excuse about the cat jumping off the window sill or something. After a month or so, I think they started getting suspicious of my limp.

I tell this story periodically to those who are thinking of getting a vasectomy as a warning. Please, listen to your doctor. He really does know best.

I had no idea @hungryhungryhortence and @ru2bz46 were ex-spouses. Learn something new every day! How cool is that? :P

I have to pipe in here and say that my future ex-husband is very happy I’ve had my tubes tied so he doesn’t have to go through what ex-husband did ;)

Future ex-husband?

@Facade She’s always been such the optimist. ;-)

So I see.

In my experience, people don’t call someone their “future ex” unless there are existing problems in the relationship.

@daloon You really need to know @hungryhungryhortence to get that reference.

@ru2bz46 Care to enlighten me? Do it in a pm, if necessary. ;-)

I should let @hungryhungryhortence speak for herself, but it goes way back.

No.

Once I marry I want to have lots of kids.

Female birth control, whether chemical or mechanical, is ABORTIFACIENT not contraceptive. It also has long term negative effects on fertility and pregnancy vitality.

@BBQsomeCows How do you figure a diaphragm is ‘abortifacient’?

I’ve kind of been refraining from addressing the right wing platitude spewer du jour…by my count I’ve seen at least a couple dozen ill concieved, completely baseless talking points that we see every time some conservative/religious fanatic stumbles upon this site, but there’s a fine line between not challenging someone who wants to speak his mind, and letting them twist the English language. Case in point, “abortifacient” (which by the way does not hold a stronger meaning if you capitalize the entire word).

Definition of abortifacient – a substance or device used to induce abortion.
Definition of abortion – the premature exit of the products of conception (the fetus, fetal mebranes and placenta) from the uterus
Definition of conception – formation of a viable zygote by union of the male sperm and the female ovum.
Definition of contraceptive – an agent or device intended to PREVENT conception (see definition of conception above).

So as I see it, NO form of birth control, diaphragm, sponge, condom, female condom, the pill, tubal ligation, vasectomy, spermicide, IUD, or even the rhythm method or abstinence are all designed to prevent the act of conception, and are therefore in no way, shape or form, (let’s put this all together now), a substance or device used to induce the premature exit of the products created by a successful union of the male sperm and female ovum. As every method of “birth control” is by design a method to prevent the successful union of the male sperm and female ovum, if this step happens, it is impossible to prematurely terminate the byproduct of something that did not happen, and ergo these can not be substances or devices designed for this purpose, as one can not design a substance or device to prematurely terminate the non-existent byproducts of a successful meeting which never occurred. That is positively ludicrous.

I don’t mind if someone posts his or her opinions here, even if I do not agree with said opinions, and even if those opinions are essentially boilerplate regurgitations of right wing talking points which have been thoroughly debunked repeatedly. But while you are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts, and just let this serve as fair warning that I am FAR from the only person on this site who will call you on your BS.

What ˄ said!!