Is there a (metaphorical) hole inside you that you have no idea how to fill?

In Zen we call this the doubt mass, and it’s actively cultivated. We plunge into it instead of trying to fill it. As one master put it, it feels like you’ve swallowed a hot iron ball that’s just stuck in you. It’s frightening because of its existential implications (which is its “doubt” aspect), but embracing it rather than pushing it away eventually transforms one’s relationship to it.

For the first time in a long time, I feel pretty filled up (metaphorically speaking) but I have definitely experienced that lingering feeling of something not being there. I think mostly because of a lack of trust in myself.

There is a song that says something like, “There’s a God shaped hole in all of us,”

Yes, been there done that, got the t-shirt, washed it till it lost all its color and stretched out of shape, donated the t-shirt to a charity shop went and bought it back, decided I did not like it anyway.

This is a very personal and individual thing. After many years of self analysis i discovered that it was coming from a sense of futility and disappointment. Its too complex to go in to but it stemmed from 100’s of different sources. I finally got over it by accepting my self for who I am. I am now perfectly happy with my nihilistic and pessimistic outlook on life. Content with what and who I am. Suffering and pain are now welcomed and enjoyed rather than despised, and I feel totally at ease.

It’s hard to say what is causing this for you, or how to stop it. I think if you are going to have to sit down, and have an honest discussion with you self and acquaint you self with reality. Chances are you know deep down what is causing it and are in denial, at least that was part of it for me.

I dunno, hit me up if you want to talk more about it. Its hard to say what the problem is without being you.

I would recommend DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy) if you can talk honestly about your issues with someone. If you have trouble putting it into words, or don’t think you’ll be honest, then try Creative Therapy. It’s like therapy without words.

Both can help you identify the cause of the hole and to fill it with health and love instead of all the things we try to fill it with (drugs, alcohol, gential love, shopping etc).

@Judi, I know this probably isn’t the correct song, but this is the one that came to my mind:
MOFO

Artist: U2

Lookin’ for to save my, save my soul
Lookin’ in the places where no flowers grow.
Lookin’ for to fill that God-shaped hole
Mother, mother-suckin’ rock an’roll.

Holy dunc, space junk comin in for the splash
White dopes on punk staring into the flash.
Lookin’ for the baby Jesus under the trash
Mother, mother-suckin’ rock an’ roll.
Mother. (scat singing)

Mother, am I still your son?
You know I’ve waited for so long
To hear you say so.

Mother, you left and made me someone.
Now I’m still a child, but no one tells me no.

Lookin’ for a sound that’s gonna drown out the world.
Lookin’ for the father of my two little girls.
Got the swing, got the sway, got my straw in lemonade.
Still lookin’ for the face I had before the world was made.
Mother, mother-suckin’ rock an’ roll

Soothe me, mother
Rule me, father
Move me, brother
Woo me, sister.

Soothe me, mother
Rule me, father
Show me, mother
Show me, mother.

Show me, mother
Show me, mother
Show me, mother
Show me, mother.

I agree with @Judi I usually feel empty when I haven’t prayed or been around “praise and worship” for a while. So @daloon I don’t know of another way to fill your hole.

@daloon I wonder if there may be a correlation between your experiences of losing self in the context of your dance group and your growing awareness of this void. That’s the typical progression of things in the Zen context—the meditation, like your dance, undermines the illusion of one’s own solidity and makes the doubt (which has always lurked below the surface) take on new urgency. Again, I don’t see it as a bad thing at all, but as an open door.

I’ve never felt a hole, specifically but I’ve felt disillusionment and dread everywhere in my body…much happier in recent years, though…my partner and kids fill up a lot of my time, and things I do for myself fill up the rest…I work, consciously, on not being empty

@Harp I don’t think it’s the dance. I think it’s getting sick that has done it. The illness made it very clear that I am looking for something, and that there is this emptiness inside. The illness made me want to fill that hole with the only thing that seemed to make a difference (albeit a temporary difference). I thought I had managed to learn how to deal with it. I made progress in not being so attached to it.

That was much easier when it was depression. Then the manic side also wanted it’s fair share, and it is much more of a greedy child, and I wanted to just let it flow through me without making much of it, but it wouldn’t let me do that. It grabbed me by the balls and that was too much for me. I forgot about not being very impressed with it, and I got totally absorbed.

Mania is too much fun. It is powerful and it attracts others and it makes up so many ideas. I couldn’t say no to it. I just wanted to be swept up in it, but I knew that for my family’s sake, I had to deal with it. So I went back to my therapist and shrink, and now I’m back on the lithium.

But the memory of losing myself in doing what I really, really wanted to; of becoming the impulse because I couldn’t fight it—has left me wanting to fill this hole, and yet needing to not fill it. I am very attached to doing what I think might help because it feels right. To give that up, and embrace the hole…. that’s really scary, even though I know I would hurt fewer people if I embraced that hole. I’ve never really been able to be with this emptiness.

Yes, it is existential. It’s about connecting with people or not connecting with them. It’s about the very thing that I believe provides meaning (love). It’s about feeling worthy. It’s about stopping this constant beating up of myself. It’s about giving up control and throwing myself into what is happening, even though I know that causes problems. It’s very complicated, as if doing the wrong thing would be the right thing, yet doing the wrong thing would also be doing the wrong thing. I have no place to turn.

It’s one of those situations that sounds like a zen koan. It’s impossible to figure it out. There is no answer. Yet, doing nothing is not an option. I have to do something.

yes, when you find the answer, let me know, will ya? My hole is smaller now, but it used to be HUGE, and I tried filling it with booze and illegal drugs back in my youth. it all leaked out, leaving me a clinker for a brain.

It’s not “like” the zen koan, it literally is the koan. What you’re talking about is exactly the crux of every single koan. You are doing koan work. “There is no answer” is exactly right. “Doing nothing is not an option” is also exactly right.

There is an ongoing question among Zen teachers about whether koan work is appropriate for people with unstable personalities, and no clear answer has emerged. Some feel that unless one has a somewhat stable sense of self going into the work, then it’s harder to deal with the void and be able to make the return trip (which has to happen). That said, I know a few bipolar practitioners who are fairly stable under meds, and who do koan work.

I don’t feel a hole or a void. To me it is more of a mass inside me that does not belong, that makes me ill and needs to be purged.

I figure that any hole I could have was made by me and therefore I can unmake it. But the mass inside me grew from the effects of the outside world on my inner being. How do I get rid of that?

@Harp It occurred to me that that feeling that I experience as this existential emptiness could also be anxiety coming out of my little brain chemistry problem.

I am fortunate enough that my hole actually is shaped like a bottle.

No. I know exactly what in me is “less full” because I have felt complete, huge and bursting several times in my life, I know what it takes, what I need and why I need it- that stuff that makes me so happy to be alive.

I’ve had that feeling my entire life. When I’m angry, it feels like a mass. Any other time, it’s this huge, obvious void that I can actually feel physically. I have no idea how to fill it. I crave harmony in everything, because I’ve never really had it before. When I begin to think I’ve found it, my world comes crashing down in one way or another, and there the hole is again. I look for it in love, I think, but I also hold myself back because I’m scared of it going away when everything feels right, but then coming back with a vengeance if something goes wrong. I can live with it, when it’s constant. But I’m not so sure I could live with it, if it completely disappeared, only to eventually return.

I have had this feeling my whole life as it seems many of us have. In my attempts to identify it I came to the conclusion that it was related to my existence and the difference I am making all this planet. One of my biggest fears is that I will never make anything happen to better the world for at least some people, to be a voice for my generation. The ‘hole’ tends to be more prominent when I think about how little I am actually doing.

I went to an art therapist once. She told me to draw a flower. I drew a sunflower with a huge black center. She said that is the emptiness in you, the black hole she called it. Seems like maybe everyone with an addictive personality has it and tried to fill it with something.

I hated me for a long time because the hole is there, because I tried to fill it (still do actually) with assorted stuff. I think it was responsible for getting me into bad relationships and staying in them too long. Probably everything I do in my life is as a result of this black hole.

Somewhere along the line I have come to the conclusion that it is no use being pissed that I have it and hating myself for being weak and needy and did simply accept that this is who I am. And it is the only me I have.

So now I think I am actually ahead of the game, I know what my madness is. Somedays I choose to let it lead, other days I say nope, not your turn, sanity (whatever the hell that is) will prevail today

I can live with that solution and even though I know it is not necessarily productive, I actually think I am better off this way because at least I know and acknowledge that something is amiss. Much better than those who are blissfully (or more likely not-so-blissfully) ignorant. Rose colored glasses are not right for me.

Salsa dancing fills any hole that needs it. Ben & Jerry’s takes care of the rest.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies If only!

The Hokey Pokey will do fine in a pinch. That’s what it’s all about!

A serious flirtation with christianity filled The Whole for 18 years, although it still asserted its presence on numerous occasions. Now The Whole cries out again on occasion and although it still gains my attention, I am determined not to stuff it with christianity again. Although I once believed so, I am not convinced that The Whole is god shaped, as @Judi described, I’m inclined to think it is a little more ambiguous than that. It certainly remains a mystery to me and quite possibly always will.

The Hole, is not really a hole within you but the wholeness fullness which you can see but have not yet realized.

Just as you perceive the hole to be within, the fullness is already within, in your quietness seek after Him and it would speak you would recognise His words as Truth.

Ahhhhhhhh, the big “Him.”

Upon realizing the exact same “hole that can never be filled” and years of psychotherapy later, that hole was an almost non-existent sense of self. When someone does not feel that they really have a strong identity or sense of self, they often search for others to fill the void. Other people can “make you happy” or compliment you and make you feel accepted and loved.

People who are confident in who they are do not need as much reassurance and acceptance from others. I am not saying that we don’t all need from others but I think it has to do with the amount you need it and if you are able to fulfill yourself.

After my Kimmy left..

I used to have that warm, contented feeling in my abdomen. Now its cold and empty, the world is grey and my memories are blurred. It’s ALWAYS there, subtly tormenting me sometimes and setting me on fire at others, and making sleep extremely difficult. Zen Buddhists say it promotes detachment, but all I can think about now is trying to end the suffering for good…

@bryguy89 – Seems as if we all have felt that way at one point in our lives, but it always passes with time. You have to act yourself into a way of thinking and eventually it will be true.

Get some help mate, call someone, go somewhere, do something besides staying in your head. Staying in my head always gets me in trouble.