Social Question

Linda_Owl's avatar

Do my fellow Flutherites truly understand the implications of the November elections?

Asked by Linda_Owl (7707 points ) September 9th, 2012

The election in November is one of the most critical events in our recent history. It is not just Democrat against Republican, it is about keeping religion out of government, it is about the Republicans wanting to gut our Social Services programs, it is about the Republicans wanting to re-subjugate women, it is about racial issues, it is about immigration status, it is about the Student Loan situation for college students. The demographics are changing in the United States to the point that white people are no longer in the ascendant – our future will be with the non-white population & the Republicans are going to do their best to see that ‘whites’ retain control of our government (that has been their stated aim ever since Obama was elected – to get him OUT of power). I think this link explains the situation as well as anything can

http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/2012-elections-have-little-do-obamas-record-which-why-we-are-voting-him?paging=off

Are any of us really ready to accept Romney & Ryan as the winners of the November election? Can the Super PACs actually buy the election for the Republicans?

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17 Answers

CWOTUS's avatar

Yeah. Critical crossroads in our nation’s history. Crucial juncture of history. Dire implications if “the wrong guy” wins.

Every four years. Just like four years ago and every four years before that for the last 200-odd years.

I get it. I don’t think you do.

cookieman's avatar

I don’t disagree with you, but do you realize that’s only one way to look at it?

Linda_Owl's avatar

@CWOTUS…. I don’t think you have any understanding of this election. You might try reading this link (in addition to the previous link)

http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/president-romney-why-those-two-words-should-scare-you-action-election?akid=9361.27374.oDqf5W&rd=1&src=newsletter70678

JLeslie's avatar

I am not terrified if Romney wins. I don’t think this election is as critical as Bush Gore was or Bush Kerry or McCain Obama. I just saw an interview with Romney on Meet the Press, and I just don’t find him to be an extremist, nor to use his religious beliefs in a significant way to make policy.

Some people around me have somewhat convinced me we just can’t vote for a Republican, because the party is too worried about the “base” of the party and too controlled by the base, who I do feel are extreme and scary. They have no idea the flaws in their logic and my last conversation with some right wing Chrstians were pretty troubling to me. Giving them more power in any way is something that plays a part in my consideration. However, I do not feel Romney is part of that extreme base.

josie's avatar

Some people imagine that a single election, and a single president can single handedly change the course of history. I think those people probably need a civics lesson. About subjugating women…This is a representative democracy, women can vote, and they make up more than half the population. Nobody is going to subjugate women in your lifetime.
FYI, my girlfriend is non white, and she thinks Obama is a moron. I am white, and although I did not vote for him, I don’t think he is a moron. In spite of yourself, it isn’t about skin color for everybody.

Jaxk's avatar

I too believe this will be a consequential election. We are caught in throws of a deep recession. We have experienced recessions of this magnitude three times in the past century, the 30s, 80s, and now. We are voting to determine the path we will take. Will it be the path of the 30s which lasted more than a decade, or the path of the 80s which brought back prosperity quickly. It’s OK to look back at FDR with a bit of nostalgia and say he had a tough road, he did. But keep in mind that FDR kept unemployment in double digits until he put 12 million men in uniform to fight WWII. His policy of tax and spend didn’t work. Let’s not forget what FDR’s Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morgenthau said about these policies “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work….After eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…and an enormous debt to boot!”. And he was the guy that help engineer them.

We can follow the path laid out by FDR, Tax and spend, war on business, government controlled economy, and spend the next decade talking about how bad this recession is. Or we can try to grow the economy and get ourselves back to growth.

There’s no guarantee that Romney will choose the right policies. But we’ve seen that Obama will not. We no longer have the room in our national debt to make another mistake. Choose wisely because the result will weigh heavily on our kids and grand kids. We’re no longer just in a hole, it’s becoming a bottomless pit. Let’s stop digging. Surely women can’t be bought by the allure of free birth control. And surely no one can be bought by politicians offering free stuff.

ucme's avatar

I do, if Romney wins i’ll probably laugh so much my balls will drop off…...not a good look.

Linda_Owl's avatar

@josie , I realize that it is not about race/color for many voters, but you & your girlfriend are aware of the racial conflicts between a great many people (at least I hope that you are aware of this problem) & for those people who feel this way, it is a really big deal for the US to have a ‘black’ man as our president. The Republican party has stated that they refuse to work with Obama & their primary concern has been to get him out of office. The attitudes of many of the Republicans leave a lot to be desired in the consideration of the average (not wealthy) American.

DrBill's avatar

another bigoted slanted question not deserving serious consideration , and even less worthy of an answer.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

You seem to be overly emotional about all of this. Been there. Take it easy. I believe you are suffering from election year overload. Your concerns are valid, but besides voting, there‘s not a lot you can do about anything right now. Spend more time away from the TV and net news outlets and in the sane company of dogs and horses. Take care of yourself and look for opportunities to make the world a better place. But dont let it take over your life, as that will do nobody any good. Then vote your concience in November.

majorrich's avatar

Just came back from a screening of Obama 2016. This is a critical election if even half of what is alleged in the movie, which appeared to have been well researched, is true.

Linda_Owl's avatar

@Espiritus_Corvus…. you are not the first person to tell me this! .... unfortunately, I care passionately about social issues & it bothers me that Romney has refused to release his tax returns & that he has his immense wealth stored in other countries.

josie's avatar

@Linda_Owl
The Republican party has stated that they refuse to work with Obama & their primary concern has been to get him out of office

So, what’s new. This is what sometimes happens when there are two opposing parties. I did not cast a vote for president in the last election (I simply could not find a reason to vote for either candidate), but I do not have a problem with a passionate opposition doing what they do best-opposing. There is a strong constituency that idolizes the president ( a creepy circumstance if you ask me) and an equally motivated constituency that dislikes him. So what? The president may occasionally be symbol of something, and clearly Obama is, but he is still only the chief executive. He has limited powers, and he will eventually be replaced. If not in November, then in 2016. And humanity will continue to struggle to survive. And the president has very little to do with that. Why not try to create happiness in your own life and times, rather than imagine a president can save you?

ETpro's avatar

Romney said he thought the Ryan budget was “marvelous.” He picked Ryan for a running mate. Now he says he has no intention of following the Ryan budget. It’s been two whole weeks, so why would we even think Romney would still be for what he supported way back then.

Romney two weeks ago hated Obamacare and was dead-set determined to repeal it even though it was his idea in Massachusetts and when the President passed it, he said he was glad that Obama followed his lead. But wait, he’s etch-a-sketched again and now says he wants to keep the elimination of lifetime caps and the elimination of exclusions of per-existing conditions. He just wants to kill the individual mandate. Of course, he knows doing all three is impossible. That’s like selling car insurance after someone has had an accident. Romney explained why the individual mandate was fundamental to healthcare reform in Massachusetts before he was against his own ideas. So he’s just plain lying about that.

The bottom line is you and I have no earthly idea what Romney really stands for, because he has no idea. His only core belief seems to be “I want money and I want power.” If that’s what you want in a “leader” then give him your vote. He’ll take your money and your power.

Paradox25's avatar

I’m no lefty by a longshot, and I know that things aren’t great at the moment, but if Romney/Ryan get elected things will get much worse.

AngryWhiteMale's avatar

Eh. Not really a “critical” election, in my opinion. Corporatist Republican Lite vs. Corporatist Republican Extreme Right-Wing. The differences between the two center around social/cultural issues, for the most part. Notice that neither candidate/convention said much about jobs, erosion of civil rights/constitutional protections, or the environment.

That’s not to say that they’re both the same; just that the destruction and decline we’re going through will be a lot faster and more complete with Romney/Ryan than with Obama/Biden, and at least Obama/Biden offer marginal support/protection for women, gays, etc., and pay lip service to acknowledging economic inequality, environmental issues, etc.

If you really want to oversimplify elections and turning points, I’d say the critical one was in 2000. Bush vs. Gore was a coup d’état we probably will not recover from, I think (I hope I’m wrong…). People since then have been painting subsequent elections as the “critical” election, but given the damage Bush/Cheney sustained, the people they appointed to the Supreme Court, and the validations of the Bush/Cheney co-presidency by Obama regarding the Patriot Act, overt/covert wars overseas (yes, Iraq technically is “done”, but a lot of those soldiers were merely shifted over to Afghanistan or are sitting across the border in Kuwait), use of secrecy/executive privilege, refusal to prosecute Wall Street, etc., I don’t see much changing.

Bush and Cheney did many, many destructive things, but aside from the few areas where Obama reversed course, he has continued/validated many others, to the point that support for such actions is now consensual and bipartisan. They aren’t going to return to the way they were.

I really hate to say it, but I think regardless of who wins, we’re in for a bumpy ride. HOW bumpy depends on who wins.

ETpro's avatar

This guy understands. Listen to Virginia Congressional candidate Andy Schmookler tell the truth about how the GOP has changed.

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