General Question

ragingloli's avatar

So the repubs are planning the next government shutdown. Can Obama not just force a budget via an executive order?

Asked by ragingloli (35780 points ) February 1st, 2014

Would that legally be an option?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

46 Answers

Darth_Algar's avatar

No, it would not legally be an option. If executive orders could be used in such a manner then that would potentially give the President unchecked power. The budget must be passed by the Congress.

pleiades's avatar

As @Darth_Algar there’s supposedly a “Checks and Balance” system we’ve got here… Does your sector of your plant enforce such rules?

ragingloli's avatar

@pleiades
The repub strategy was tried once during prussian times. Ever since then, the constitution allows the current administration to enact its own budget if parliament fails to do so.

bolwerk's avatar

Not meaningfully. Congress has budgetary powers specifically delegated to it, but there is no “thou shalt create a budget” article in the U.S. constitution. The real power Congress has is the ability to collect revenue (combined with a duty to account for it).

The president has a lot of discretionary power to enforce laws Congress passes, which may mean spending money a certain way. In practice, the president works with Congress to make a budget. But he can’t unilaterally make a budget.

The most relevant clause in the U.S. constitution is probably this from Article I, Section 9: “No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.”

2TFX's avatar

Only the house can pass tax or spending laws, the house has “power of the purse”

MadMadMax's avatar

Could you provide a link to an article? I thought they had an agreement regarding the budget?

DWW25921's avatar

Executive orders should be illegal. Obama hasn’t proposed a budget since he’s been in office, why bother at this point?

elbanditoroso's avatar

And deprive the Repo party of the ability to hold the country hostage?

These charades are great for Repo politicians – lots face time on Fox News. Helps raise tons of money.

But the citizens? Screw them. This is all political game-playing. We all know how it will end. The fun part is watching the Repo party turn red on TV.

DWW25921's avatar

@johnpowell The only reason he’s finally decided to do it this year is because it’s an election year and he’s under pressure.

DWW25921's avatar

@ragingloli I’m not buying it.

“Can Obama not just force a budget via an executive order?”

Bypassing congress regularly is what creates dictators. He (Obama) has used more executive orders than all presidents in American history combined. It sets a bad precedent and it doesn’t exactly encourage trust.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@DWW25921 Total presidential executive orders by president:

George Washington – 8
John Adams – 1
Thomas Jefferson – 4
James Madison – 1
James Monroe – 1
John Quincy Adams – 3
Andrew Jackson – 12
Martin van Buren – 10
William Henry Harrison – 0
John Tyler – 17
James K. Polk – 18
Zachary Taylor – 5
Millard Fillmore – 12
Franklin Pierce – 35
James Buchanan – 16
Abraham Lincoln – 48
Andrew Johnson – 79
Ulysses S. Grant – 217
Rutherford B. Hayes – 92
James Garfield – 6
Chester Arthur – 96
Grover Cleveland – 253
Benjamin Harrison – 143
William McKinley – 185
Theodore Roosevelt – 1,081
William Howard Taft – 724
Woodrow Wilson – 1,803
Warren G. Harding – 522
Calvin Coolidge – 1,203
Herbert Hoover – 968
Franklin D. Roosevelt – 3,522
Harry S. Truman – 907
Dwight D. Eisenhower – 484
John F. Kennedy – 214
Lyndon B. Johnson – 325
Richard Nixon – 346
Gerald R. Ford – 169
Jimmy Carter – 320
Ronald Reagan – 381
George H.W. Bush – 166
Bill Clinton – 364
George W. Bush – 291
Barack Obama – 167 (as of 01/14/14)

(Source)

Darth_Algar's avatar

@DWW25921

Why should executive orders be illegal?

pleiades's avatar

@SavoirFaire I think @DWW25921 Was referring to executive orders in his own world. :P

But you definitely gotta love those statistics from Wikipedia at the same time.

1TubeGuru's avatar

The Repugnican led house of representatives holds the budget purse strings.

DWW25921's avatar

@SavoirFaire Thanks for the intel. Now, how do I cuss out Google without making my online business vanish? I mean, I’ve installed “duck duck go” I have the “Tor” browser and I delete absolutely everything every week. Why on earth do I keep getting crappy information? I’m kind of getting seriously irritated. I know others have searching issues too but mine seem especially bad…

SavoirFaire's avatar

@DWW25921 Google brings you to websites. It does not give you information directly (except for a few of its tools, such as the Google calculator). Find multiple sources and fact-check them. Don’t listen to political propaganda. And if you have a television, never watch a 24-hour news network.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@DWW25921

Fact check, fact check, fact check. Don’t take everything you read at its word.

rojo's avatar

I say let them shut it down. This is, after all, an election year. They will only endear themselves to those whose vote they can already count on while alienating all the independent voters. Mo’ power to them.

KNOWITALL's avatar

No King Obama will try though. Both sides should do their jobs & compromise on OUR behalf.

Darth_Algar's avatar

King Obama? Seriously?

SavoirFaire's avatar

@Darth_Algar She’s just demonstrating her dedication to taking the high ground. ~

rojo's avatar

Lighten up. How many times did I use the term “George II” for “Shrub” in the last presidency?

a bunch

bolwerk's avatar

Objectively speaking: how is Obama more dictatorial or lawless than the last guy? I’m not entirely convinced he’s moreso than the one before the last one or the one before him or the one before him.

Carter might the last U.S. president without an atrocious human rights record.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@rojo Exactly-lol (like I coined the phrase)?! Guess no one read the sentence after that, imagine that.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Yes @KNOWITALL, we read the sentence after that.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@rojo I was critical of the Bush haters, too, and never called President Bush by anything but his name.

@KNOWITALL I read the sentence. And it seemed incredibly hypocritical after the first (as well as in light of various complaints you’ve made previously on Fluther). In any case, starting out with hyperbolic insults isn’t a good way to get compromise going.

rojo's avatar

@SavoirFaire Probably has something to do with me not having much respect for the office whereas I assume you may.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SavoirFaire Oh pulease, like everyone cares about everyone’s feelings here?!
Frankly I thought it was funny when I heard ‘King Obama’ and I still do. ;)

bolwerk's avatar

@KNOWITALL: but hypocritical if you don’t also apply the moniker at least to Bush.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@bolwerk Like this? :) I completely get the point, it’s kind of funny to see libs upset over remarks Reps were repeatedly subjected to.

Dec. 18, 2005 Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., believes President Bush is acting more like a sovereign monarch than an elected leader by authorizing the National Security Agency to listen in on Americans’ phone calls.

“We have a system of law,” Feingold said. “He just can’t make up the law … It would turn George Bush not into President George Bush, but King George Bush.”

The issue lies in the interpretation of the Afghanistan resolution passed by Congress following the World Trade Center attacks on 9/11.

bolwerk's avatar

@KNOWITALL: if you’re looking for hypocrisy in the Democratic caucus about this, you probably could have thrown a rock at it and whoever you hit probably have been a good example. However, Feingold actually has integrity about this stuff and is legitimately a civil libertarian (as far as U.S. Congresscretins go). He was the only U.S. Senator who had the balls to vote against the Patriot Act. He might be one of the few Democrats who is sort of a small-D democratic instead of a small-R republican.

Unfortunately, he was replaced with an authoritarian in the 2010 teabagger sweep.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Whether or not there are hypocrites in the Democratic party is irrelevant. And this has nothing to do with “libs” being “upset” (personally speaking I did not vote for Obama). “King Obama” is a dumb comment just as “King George” was dumb. These guys aren’t monarchs and only have as much power as the American people (through their votes and through their representatives) allow them to have.

bolwerk's avatar

True. More accurate would be Generalissimo Bush (the flight suit thing) and Magi Obama. Using any objective criteria, Obama is less authoritarian than Bush, but literally more conservative.

And, liberal or not, as someone who feels comfortable being the puppetmaster of the NSA and drones, Obama is a fucking right-wing nut. Pointing out to people that liberals are by definition right-wing causes rectal hernias that lead to extreme butthert (see here for a funny example – probably the one time I ever got modded for making a basic statement of fact, which should tell you how “liberal” the Fluther mods really are). And @KNOWITALL probably can’t grok that Republikans are technically more liberal than Democrats.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@bolwerk I haven’t grokked in a long time…lol, good call.

@Darth_Algar You know I don’t talk to you based on your past behavior.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

And yet you’re talking to me now.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@rojo It has nothing to do with respect for the office. It has to do with the fact that using such terms has never once helped anyone to better make their point than they could have done without them.

@KNOWITALL Of course not everyone cares about everyone’s feelings here, but I have not said otherwise. What I said was that your use of the term is unproductive and hypocritical. It doesn’t advance the conversation in any way, and it is at odds with previous complaints you’ve made about how people behave on Fluther.

Note also that your Feingold quote is not exactly a comparable example. The Senator did not call the president “King Bush.” He spoke conditionally: if Bush were allowed to make up the law, then this would make him—in effect—a king. Regardless, this wouldn’t really be a counterpoint to anything I’ve said, not least because I am neither a Democrat nor a liberal. Nor am I “upset” about your use of the term. I was merely pointing out that it is precisely the sort of thing you whine about when others do.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SavoirFaire Please don’t feel like you need to correct me, it’s not welcome unless you do it to everyone else who are way worse than me.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@KNOWITALL I’m not correcting you. I’m pointing out an inconsistency, which I do quite frequently here. I’m not part of every conversation on Fluther, but I have annoyed plenty of people—both those with whom I disagree and those with whom I agree—by pointing out inconsistencies in their stated positions. How about improving your argumentative style rather than complaining when people point out what’s wrong with it? It would help you be a better voice for the positions you are trying to defend and it would prevent you from getting anymore “corrections” from me. Seems like a win-win scenario.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SavoirFaire Lord give me patience…. Twelve posts here over one little ‘King Obama’ post, what riot!!!! Listen to @rojo, it’s not a big deal.

ragingloli's avatar

King Obama? At least he is not as bad as Bushitler.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

You really don’t like it what others counter your posts do you? I’ve noticed that you generally ether act offended or you ignore arguments contrary to yours outright.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth 14 wow! :) Want to hear what they call Hillary?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

Only you’ll first address the question of how Obama is, objectively speaking, any more dictatorial than the last guy (or last several presidents at least, for that matter).

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