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bolwerk's avatar

Is Civic Virtue Triumphant Over Unrighteousness sexist?

Asked by bolwerk (10352points) March 6th, 2011

A statue in Queens, New York, may come down, after nearly 90 years. It has been called sexist since it went up. What do you think of the imagery and allegory?

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13 Answers

TexasDude's avatar

I’m having a hard time seeing the sexism here. It’s an old statue that portrays Classical archetypes in the way they are typically portrayed. It has no bearing over anyone. It’s just a statue.

but then again, maybe I can’t see it since I’m a member of the evil white male hegemony anyway.~

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

Yes, it’s sexist. However, I do not want to see it come down – just because something portrays values we no longer hold dear doesn’t mean it isn’t still gorgeous, or doesn’t convey other virtues we still believe in. We’d have to chuck basically every historical artifact of any kind to rid the world of bigoted works of art and literature.

TexasDude's avatar

@MyNewtBoobs, yeah this sort of reminds me of the whole Huckleberry Finn being re-written thing, in a way. You can’t always judge history through a modern moral lens, and it’s almost always a bad idea to expunge it for the same reasons.

tinyfaery's avatar

It’s sexist and ugly. Perhaps a nice tree would be more fItting.

marinelife's avatar

Why are the “sins” all portrayed as women while the buff white male is fighting them off?

It is very ugly in a world where 98% of violence against women is perpetrated by men, and 98% of the victims of violence are women and children.

anartist's avatar

What a lovely fate for “Rough Boy” [see the article],to be lovingly restored and installed in Green Wood Cemetery’s gardens, instead of deteriorating, uncared for, beside Queens Boulevard!
Let the rest of the world hate him, even though he is,according to the cited article, the last masterwork of the American sculptor Frederick MacMonnies.
I personally cannot see the women in the picture, but I am sure they are there. Just like Eve with her apple and “the woman in red” of Edvard Munch.

Uberwench's avatar

Yes, it’s sexist. A lot of old shit is sexist. But I agree with @MyNewtBoobs: it’s a product of an old value system and can still be worthwhile despite not being perfect. Recognize the sexism, but recognize the art as well.

DominicX's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard

This isn’t some Ancient Roman statue that was revered in its time and was indicative of the morals of the time and then only centuries later is viewed as sexist through modern eyes; this is a statue that was viewed as sexist by many as soon as it was erected in 1922.

TexasDude's avatar

@DominicX, really? I must have missed that part. My apologies.

jellyfish3232's avatar

It’s sexist, but rebellious in a good way. I sort of like it.

incendiary_dan's avatar

There’s a fine line between preserving something and understanding the historical significance, and excusing the flaws, be they racism, sexism, whatever, by saying it’s relative.

I get annoyed when, for instance, people write off American genocide because “they didn’t know any better” or “that was the times”. Just because someone doesn’t know better doesn’t make it not evil. In the same regard, a sexist statue from ancient Rome (or from 1922) is still sexist, even if the significance of that sexism is different and contextual.

And if anything, the use of language in Huck Finn is done in a way to insult racists.

everephebe's avatar

I do think it’s ugly, and that’s offensive (at least to my eyes).

As far as sexist goes, probably yeah… However both the Greeks and Romans deified/personified virtues, qualities, and concepts. If I am not mistaken, typically they are goddess, although there are gods too. And the male figure appears Bacchic, & faun-like; so it would fit within a “classical” archetype. That said, since there are multiple “prone” figures, and they are both female it’s kinda/sort ofyeah basically, it’s sexist.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard Nothing is ever just what it is. No statue is ever ‘just a statue’or it would have never spoken to those who erected it. Nor is your last little quip an appropriate excuse to ever get out of anything you say. You’re not part of the evil white male hegemony but you are nonetheless afforded privelege. Not that it has anything to do with your liking or disliking statues.
To the OP: It’s sad but not surprising that that’s how it was built and what was portrayed. I think it should stay up if for no other reason but to teach our children about how ugly and long-lasting patriarchy is.

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