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Imadethisupwithnoforethought's avatar

Conservatives, Do you think you get shut down on Fluther?

Asked by Imadethisupwithnoforethought (14654points) August 6th, 2011

I am very liberal in my politics. I am concerned, however, by the conservative Fluther folk telling me they feel they are stymied from expressing open opinion.

Is it the case you feel shut down? What can we do to make sure you feel comfortable expressing an honest opinion?

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69 Answers

augustlan's avatar

I sincerely hope the conservative jellies don’t feel that way. I know we’re a predominantly left-leaning site, but it’s very important to be exposed to other views and have our own views challenged. If they do feel that way, I’m open to hearing suggestions on how to prevent that.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Gadzooks, I find that an interesting question. As some feel somewhat bullied or somewhat disrespected, I assume some of those who feel that way, was because of their views. Following a number of threads, I think those who have less than a so-called enlightened mind and are more steeped in tradition have a harder row to hoe here, maybe not as hard a row to hoe as anyone of faith, but certainly no easy street.

I could speculate that since the more enlightened, and liberal voices have the majority here, the real world reversal is in swing. That many had to fight tooth and nail to be heard or have their chunk of pie in the non-cyber world they want to frame the cyber community more to their liking and more of a place where they can feel more comfortable and in control. I can live with that. I think not forgetting to do so civilly is the key. It is easy to get haughty and arrogant if you have the numbers, like the person that finds boldness to smash store fronts, burn cars or occupy a square against the government because they have more backers and are not just one voice naked unto themselves.

KateTheGreat's avatar

we have conservatives here? You would think the liberals chewed ‘em up and spit them out, knowing what goes on in this place.~

Cruiser's avatar

I prefer the conservative political model though most surveys peg me a progressive moderate that said I do take the conservative POV and although the conservative perspective is clearly the minority here and at times overwhelmingly opposed I have never been shut down or felt any direct effort was made to limit my ability to express my thoughts and opinions.

More often than not though I liken these discussions to “pissin into the wind!”

redfeather's avatar

From what I’ve seen, the conservatives are very much bashed and insulted and dont get the support and chance to express themselves like their far left counterparts. After a while, it just seems like the super liberals just start chanting “Bush is dumb, Obama is best!” Both the far left, and the far right annoy the ever lovin bejeezus out of me which is why this is the first political thread I’ve answered in a while. I do lurk around in others though. And my eyes are in danger of rolling out of my head.

Response moderated
woodcutter's avatar

Without starting a flap I recall asking a question about affirmative action when another mod, not @augustlan , was at the com. I don’t think she liked it, at all and it felt like I couldn’t do anything right by her the rest of the day. She modded a comment where I used the word “sammich.” Really? Sammich? The same hour another member used the term, and for some reason it stayed, so it felt like she was camping on my ass for a while.
Of course there will be the“that wasn’t the reason I was holding the hammer over your head all night.” And that would be true. Just doing the job properly but my point here is there are some who get to take “liberties” and keep them.
I knew my question back then was going to “stir the turd” on here and it did, was why it started out in general in hopes of avoiding that mess but it didn’t work.

laureth's avatar

I’m not sure how, short of getting a response modded away, people can be shut down here. I’ve seen some pretty wacky stuff go on here, conservative politics or not. Even if people disagree, you can still talk about it.

If all political views except one got deleted as soon as they were seen, that is one thing. But I don’t see that happening to conservatives here.

incendiary_dan's avatar

I’ve seen it happen from time to time, where someone taking a conservative view is just bashed by an overwhelming force. But more often than not, I see conservatives crying foul when someone else, or a group of someones, simply argue effectively. And in my experience, if you argue effectively against someone on the left, they simply call you a right-winger, which is usually hilarious for me. It’s even happened to me immediately after quoting Noam Chomsky.

Joker94's avatar

I’ve seen it happen, yeah.

poisonedantidote's avatar

I’m not too conservative, but have a little info to share.

Without getting all big headed, how smart if your average fluther user compared to say your average youtube comment writer? Fluther is not exactly used by blunt tools.

I think, because of the nature of the site, it is possible for anyone to feel “shut down” just because of the quality of the arguments. Regardless of your politics and life views, on fluther, you are never too far away from someone who will teach you a thing or two. It is very easy to come up with a great argument, only to have someone burst your bubble with an even better argument or other side of the coin.

Now… some times people do get jumped on. There is no denying that, some times a few jellies will kind of gang up to mock another, but it’s nothing too serious really. Fluther is a good place when all is said and done.

Grow a thicker skin, and get used to it, it’s probably never going to change that much.

woodcutter's avatar

I speculate the same thing would happen if there was a liberal going on a predominantly right wing occupied site. It probably wouldn’t go well. You just need to know when and where to pick your fights.

TexasDude's avatar

@woodcutter exactly. Each in-group just uses their own trademarked insults and intellectual circle jerking tactics to shout down their opponent. If you’re the one conservative in a group of liberals, you’re suddenly a “Christofascist,” “Rethuglican,” “moron/retard/idiot,” etc, often before you even open your mouth, and if you’re the lone liberal among a bunch of conservatives, you hate America, you’re a commie, and you’re, well… a “liberal.”

Hey, Fluther could be a lot worse. It could be like the politics section of reddit, where anyone to the right of Chairman Mao is dogpiled on and beaten into submission by people with usernames like “rethugsuckcock.”

Politics: we know drama

Berserker's avatar

I don’t hang around much in political discussions, but conservatives are a minority here, and I have often seen them get bashed. However, I’ve also seen liberals get bashed plenty of times. Eh, the Internet.

I don’t think anyone gets shut down though…everyone seems allowed to post their views and opinions. Can’t do much about the reactions of other people if it’s within the guidelines, but that hasn’t stopped plenty of our conservative friends to stick around.

MilkyWay's avatar

Never happened to me.
But maybe that’s because I usually tend to avoid answering political questions…

woodcutter's avatar

I just chalk it up to this: when a discussion devolves to personal attacks is about the same time someone’s argument has run out steam.

Dutchess_III's avatar

We have plenty of debates between conservatives and liberals! When you’re talking politics it’s automatic that sparks are going to start flying, on both sides.

tranquilsea's avatar

I’ve been on many websites/lists where political posts are not tolerated at all because of the angst and ire it creates amongst the users. I’ve been really pleased to see a good level of level debate happen here. Sometimes people go overboard but they are usually modded pretty fast.

It is one thing to say, “I don’t agree with your politics.” Quite another to say, “You’re a blankity-blank liberal/conservative, grab a brain would you?”

snowberry's avatar

There are some questions I simply avoid because although they are directed at people who believe as I do, many members have already posted derogative jokes about my beliefs.

In other words, it’s not a set up for respectful communication.

snowberry's avatar

I remember seeing a question such as I describe placed in general, meaning that it’s for serious answers. However they were not following that rule at all. And of course the mods didn’t notice.

laureth's avatar

@snowberry – If you object to something and it doesn’t appear as though the mods are noticing, you can help the situation by flagging the offensive responses. This sends an email to every mod. Then, the mods can decide if it violates the guidelines enough to be removed.

We can only mod what we see, and, despite what people might think, we’re not omniscient and omnipresent. :)

Dutchess_III's avatar

mods always laugh at me when I flag people!

snowberry's avatar

Eh, Sometimes I just don’t bother. The people who own this are atheist, and they clearly promote it. It doesn’t keep me from hanging around, but if they were really concerned, they’d do something about it. I’ve flagged stuff before that should have been taken care of, and was ignored.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What are you talking about @snowberry? How do you figure the owners “promote” atheism?

snowberry's avatar

@Dutchess I’m not up to digging up examples. Ask anyone in a minority what it’s like to be discriminated against, and they can tell you. Every single Christian I have met here has mentioned the same thing to me. It’s why there are so few of us actually stay. It’s why Bobo isn’t here anymore (He told me so).

But no worries. I have no intention of disappearing anytime soon. :o)

tranquilsea's avatar

@snowberry do you mean the “owners” would take care of the atheists?

woodcutter's avatar

If the one’s being ganged up on would only consider the source, they would soon learn that the haters are usually the immature “professional students” who have little to no real life experiences to really base anything on that gives them the jacked up ideas they come up with. Nobody should feel they are being run off that’s just wrong.

snowberry's avatar

Yeah, @woodcutter it just gets old. If they’re the immature kiddies of fluther, they sure make a lot of noise, but it appears to me they are also in the majority. And it’s just not worth it to try to have any kind of valuable communication when that sort have taken over a question.

woodcutter's avatar

@snowberry Say this to them- I understand your ignorance, but I’m really only interested in what the big people have to say here..

snowberry's avatar

@woodcutter I’ve been around long enough to notice it’s more profitable just to ignore the ignoramuses and work with the people who think I might have something worthwhile to say.

incendiary_dan's avatar

@woodcutter Yea, condescension really works and makes your points seem so much stronger. ~ :P

I’ve found it a lot more productive not to presume to tell someone else’s story, whether it’s that of an “immature professional student” or a “Rethuglican Christofascist” or whatever. Debate the opposition’s points, not matter which side you’re on, and don’t accept any less from others. Ad hominem attacks are poor form whoever you are.

skfinkel's avatar

If there are any true conservatives left on this site or anywhere in the US, I would like to hear about it.

woodcutter's avatar

@incendiary_dan So what you are saying is take the high road? And hope a mod will step in to stop the berating? Like waiting for a 911 call to really work? For a mod to really care about situations like these it has to be soooo far over the top that it would look odd for them to not act. In general I think the liberals do get a longer leash here before they get reeled in. I’m sorry but when a mod lamely says “flame off guys” when the offender was obvious the lefty to start with ,and leaves it at that is telling. I know you’ve seen it too.

FutureMemory's avatar

Much whining in this thread.

Aethelwine's avatar

The conservatives I’ve seen here can hold their own, but it’s painfully obvious how rude many liberals can be. All you have to do is look at some of the titles of the questions some of the liberals ask.

woodcutter's avatar

@FutureMemory That’s what it’s here for?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

All you have to do is look at some of the titles of the questions some of the liberals ask. If it liberally said to the detriment of anything right-leaning it can never be flame-bait or hate-speak ;-P

Oh, and it hardly ever gets modded to take the insult from the question; at least not 7 out of 10 times.

woodcutter's avatar

It will be campaign season soon and then it’s going to get really shitty, if the last election is any indicator.

TexasDude's avatar

I’m dreading it :-(

redfeather's avatar

YOU GUYZ R DOING IT AGAIN.

KateTheGreat's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard I’m not dreading it. I see it as a prime trolling opportunity.

redfeather's avatar

I said it privately earlier, but I’ll say it again. Peace, lurve, and Coloma for President.

TexasDude's avatar

…I’m trying to photoshop a goose with the American flag on it like an alternative to the Donkey and Elephant, but I am failing hard…

augustlan's avatar

@snowberry “The people who own this are atheist, and they clearly promote it. It doesn’t keep me from hanging around, but if they were really concerned, they’d do something about it. I’ve flagged stuff before that should have been taken care of, and was ignored.”

That is factually incorrect. While it’s true that the majority of our members are atheists, it isn’t by design. It just so happens that we turned out to be a pretty atheist-heavy site. In that regard, we’re pretty atheist-friendly, but we certainly don’t promote or deter any religion or lack thereof. In fact, at least two of our current mods are theists, and at least one of our former mods (the one you had such a hard time with early on) was a theist, too. I think they’d be awfully surprised to hear that we actively promote atheism.

I’m sure that when people flag something, they think it should be removed, but that doesn’t mean it actually is removable under our guidelines. We get multiple flags every single day on questions and answers that we don’t end up removing (on a wide variety of topics… not just religion). Every mod sees every flag, and we’d never all get together and say “Ya’ know, even though this is clearly against our guidelines, we’re not gonna’ remove it, because it promotes atheism.” That’s just not going to happen.

incendiary_dan's avatar

@woodcutter Not the high road per se, just be effective as well as respectful. In terms of the analogy you use of depending on your 911 call to work, consider using poor arguments and condescension like defending yourself from a dedicated attacker with birdshot or .22 shorts, and no strategic positioning. It’s mostly just going to make it worse. It’s about using the proper tools. If you think the left leaning folk on this site get a longer leash, then it’s extra important to use the proper tools and stategies. Condescending is about as immature as you seem to think some professional students are, and if you make that a habit…well…you basically prove the other side right. Right?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@snowberry I’m a Christian and I don’t keep it a secret. I have never, not once, been “ganged up on” because of it. There are those who don’t believe as I do, but that’s nothing but another kind of debate. I know other Christians on this site…Will Work For Chocolate for one. So whatever persecution you think you’re feeling is due to something else.

Coloma for president?????!!!!!! Are you MAD???!!!

redfeather's avatar

No. I’m a damn genius.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Coloma would have a GOOSE for her closest National Security adviser!!

redfeather's avatar

And that’s…..... a problem?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well…well, she’d have a barn yard full of adviser. Skunks and grasshopper and cats and….all kinds of critters….

incendiary_dan's avatar

Yea, geese are mean as shit when you piss them off. Very protective. I can get behind this platform.

redfeather's avatar

@incendiary_dan exactly. Go to a pond to feed the ducks and suddenly you’re surrounded by a hissing flock of geese who want your blood.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well…we need to send them to Afghanistan! Along with feral boars with tusks. Maybe Coloma isn’t such a bad choice!

woodcutter's avatar

@incendiary_dan You sort of just proved my point there you see? There shouldn’t be a reason to mount any kind of defense. By the time an out of control lib flies off the deep end there should be someone in charge to reel them in because by then there’s no reasoning with them. My point is, if a mod is sympathetic to the liberal agenda themselves it will be psychologically hard for them to intervene and if they do eventually act will be a day late and a dollar short.

incendiary_dan's avatar

@woodcutter I’m failing to connect this last post of yours. How did that prove your point? And what was your point? I might have had too little coffee today.

If the mods aren’t going to step in, it’s all the more reason to debate effectively rather than just instigate more conflict.

woodcutter's avatar

Sorry my point was by that time the situation has become toxic to the point that nobody wants to engage. Who wants to visit with a frothy mouth liberal with an ax to grind? not me, and I’m nowhere near conservative I just like to play devils advocate. And why was it allowed to progress as far it does at times? Mods sleeping or gleefully watching all the gratuitous name calling?

incendiary_dan's avatar

Oh sure, there’s definitely a time to just cut it off if someone doesn’t want to debate honestly or respectfully. I’m just saying, tell them they’re not debating honestly, rather than talk down. Personally, I find that hits home a lot harder.

Dutchess_III's avatar

But that’s not restricted to political discussions @incendiary_dan. I mean, anything that others feel strongly about….religion, spankings, dieting, finding Indian names for my kitty, whatever….always run the risk of turning into a mud-slinging, disgusting free for all.

lucillelucillelucille's avatar

Shut down? <giggles> No.I know what I think and why I think as I do.
I am not afraid to epress my opinion and and couldn’t care less if someone doesn’t like it.

cockswain's avatar

I think they get a lot less grease if they don’t have their facts in order. And when they do, they will need rigorous sources. Or else it’s off to the wolves!

augustlan's avatar

I just want to point out that we remove a ton of Qs and As that are liberal leaning. If they don’t follow our guidelines and we see it, it goes. Also, not all of our mods are liberal. There seem to be quite a few erroneous assumptions about the mod team.

downtide's avatar

If conservatives want a Q&A website where everyone agrees with them, there’s always Sodahead. Jeez, they would have hounded out Bush for being too liberal.

woodcutter's avatar

@augustlan But in real life perception is reality, syz cough.

lillycoyote's avatar

@Dutchess_III I don’t think I’ve ever necessarily seen Christians “ganged up on” as much as, on some threads, seen a sort of defacto “tag teaming” and that is really just be because Christians are outnumbered here. The one thing that really does irritate the crap out of me though is when no matter what the “god related” question might be, there are usually at least 2 or 3 or 4 people who will pop onto the to thread to do nothing more than add some not incredibly original or insightful version of “Christians/Religious People/People who believe in god are ignorant, brainwashed, idiots incapable of critical thinking, etc.” You know what? Those of you who pop onto a thread and can add nothing more than that? Heard it before; from each of you a hundred times, all in all, from other people, a thousand times. It does nothing to further the debate, it adds nothing to the debate, it is nothing that the rest of us have not heard before and at this point it is really amounts to nothing more than atheist background noise, atheist musak, honestly. Do you have something original to say? Then please say it. I am neither a Christian nor an atheist. I just get tired of the kneejerks, on both sides, and here, sadly, much of the kneejerkery comes from atheists.

Joker94's avatar

@lillycoyote I wish you one thousand GA’s.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@lillycoyote I second, third, and fourth that!

snowberry's avatar

A Christian here, and what @lillycoyote said is right on. : )

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