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throssog's avatar

Felonia: What is it's meaning , derivation and effect?

Asked by throssog (795 points ) July 11th, 2011

Because of the origin of Felonia how does this force our understandings of crime, punishment and re-entry to society?

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20 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

Can you point to something to expand on what you are asking?

marinelife's avatar

It’s the Spanish word for felony. What is your point?

throssog's avatar

It is a Latin word for a condition or status which , once reached, degraded the individual and in some instances their families to a station wherein they could not own property and were considered less than human. It is the origin of our felon, felony, and all the baggage that goes along with it. From the deprivation of rights and the disdain with which a felon is regarded to the possibility of preventive detention, etc, etc.
It was utilized by the clerics who presided over judicial proceedings and , as they were priests, they brought along the idea of damnation and punishment for having disobeyed the King/Church as they considered their god would for disobedience to him.
Bit clearer?.

marinelife's avatar

I don’t see its origins in religion as having any meaning in current society.

throssog's avatar

Permit me then to suggest you have not looked into it far enough. It is from this set of concepts and the world view that they foster that our current state of incarcerational frenzy comes -” lock’em up and leave’em there”. Further, I would submit to you, it maintains this frenzy and expands it with every new fear the populace at large can be encouraged to endorse. The current fashion of “accepting guilt and apologizing to the victim and their family”...nothing of religion there, eh? Can it be that you haven’t looked over the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines? Perhaps you have perused the Model Penal Code, from which the Guidelines are derived? All participate in this quasi religious guilt and shame finding . Its degree goes far beyond Law and into a status of the individual program which makes of them a thing. A felon, no longer a person but a status. Much like “the damned”, hmmm? But , perhaps I ask too much?

marinelife's avatar

@throssog I think that felons should feel shame and guilt.

I think that the status of felon deserves the loss of some rights and freedom is one of them.

zenvelo's avatar

So are you questioning the use of indications of remorse and/or understanding of the crime in sentencing and parole?

One of the harder things to judge is how dangerous a felon is after the fact. It is an inexact science, but society can stomach the release of a felon who has served a substantial amount of time and shows real remorse much more than someone who has no concern for his victims.

I don’t see a relation to Latin; felonia is a translation from English. The word comes from old English/old French/Old High German.

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zenvelo's avatar

@throssog I did google it. I also searched for “felony”. There are no citations to clerical courts.

Please do not conjecture what my response will be. I too believe there should be relief for non-violent crimes. The consensus of society to date,however, is that those who commit certain crimes should be incarcerated.

Here in California, a very high number of non -violent offenders will be released from State Prison, either to carryout their sentence in County Jails, or house arrest, or parole/probation, because of the problems funding the prison system.

marinelife's avatar

@throssog I do not intend to debate with someone who is, without any merit, so personally insulting simply because I do not agree with you.

You twisted what I said.

I meant right not privilege.

throssog's avatar

Dear Marinelife, so sorry you aren’t able to see that rights cannot be taken away whereas privileges can. Rights can only be denied – never removed. Privileges can be revoked – rights can not.
Dear zenvelo, how interesting. You did google it? Obviously not to any meaningful depth. It is a word whose origins are within church law and directly relate to the status ( renounced by the US Constitution) of “corruptions of the blood”. Goes back through loss of Fee and to the nature of being human. Fascinating…if one researches it.
Ah, Calif. release of prisoners? Hmmm, shame it is to be delayed for some time. Check out Findlaw and Sentencing Law and Policy websites for actual facts relating to this situation. Golly, wonder what those folk, former prisoners, will do for a living? Being so employable and all. :D
As an aside: Have either of you noticed the nature of the Judges’ garb? Whose robes do they seem similar to? The lay out of the Court room itself…remind you of anywhere else? Ah well, do foregive me my presumptions as to the degree of knowledge and interest “fluther”-ing about here.

Aethelflaed's avatar

@throssog While Fluther is more geared towards those who value education and learning, Roman philosophy and ideals about justice and the entomology of felonia is something of a niche topic. You might get further by simply sharing what you know instead of being so put off that otherwise smart, learned people aren’t as well-versed in such a niche interest as yourself. Nor would it be correct to describe Fluther has constantly having the atmosphere of a pub that history and philosophy professors have taken over.

zenvelo's avatar

@throssog Please provide links. I could not find any on a google search for “Felonia” or Felony” that related to a church court of any type, nor to any Latin etymology of the word felony.

The release of non-violent offenders in California is expected within the next ninety days.

Please explain this statement: “directly relate to the status ( renounced by the US Constitution) of “corruptions of the blood”. I know of no such “renunciation” in the Constitution in the context of punishment.

throssog's avatar

As regards “corruption of the blood”: but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. http://constitutionus.com/
The place of this statement/command is in the body of the USA Constitution – I thought you had/would take a look , ah well, my mistake, eh?
As regards the religious origins of the USA court/judicial/punitive procedures… look, if you can be bothered to, in any modern text on the evolution of Criminal Justice and its origins.
Even the robes that Judges wear are…well, never mind: “Just because everyone needs an education doesn’t mean you must open a university.”

throssog's avatar

To all who responded: My Thanks to you all! It was, for me, most informative. Some bothered to think and do a bit of searching – others, quite obviously did not.
As to this post being about a “niche” area: I can only wonder how this may be supported as the USA is currently ( and for some time) the worlds largest incarcerator of its own population and has the least concern for its citizens education and readiness for meaningful employment (with or without felon status) of any 1st World nation. Two plus million in custody, over 8 million under some form of supervision or with felon status.
Thanks again.
Further, the status of felon (and its attendant felonia) were used to deny the franchise to many during a recent Federal Presidential election… wrongly and without proofs. Niche? I must disagree…though I do understand why it might be desirable, for some, to see it as such.

snowberry's avatar

@throssog Wow. If you could find a way to communicate without talking down to people I think you’d get farther. It’s so off putting that it makes me want to write you off, regardless of your education or the research you’ve done.

throssog's avatar

@snowberry How kind of you to respond – and with such well-meaning advice. I shall take it at face value and credit you with honesty. Yes, I do have an…unfortunate manner. Well know to me. However, would you have me become a true hypocrite and act as though I were other than as I am? I do you (in the plural context) the honour of treating you as I treat myself. Imho, there is no greater honour I can award you.That it troubles you,( for my sake?) makes me delight in you. Again, my thanks for the kindness of your thoughts and response.

snowberry's avatar

@throssog My comments stand. There’s an old saying “You draw more flies with honey rather than with vinegar”. Otherwise you’re “pissing into the wind” as they say. There is wisdom in these sayings.

throssog's avatar

@snowberry Don’t doubt your position or the wisdom of your citations – however,I am not particularly interested in ‘drawing flies’. Thanks, again, and be well.

tacres's avatar

Wow , this sounds like a school yard!!!!!! ” I’m smarter, no you’re not, I AM” Obviously I am no where near as learned as present company but the word I think conveys a concept from a very old human social behaviour of how to deal with actions that would upset or endanger the groups (family, tribes’) well being. Just like mares will drive away a misbehaving foal from the herd, as society developed it also developed a mechanism to punish misbehaviour.The foal knows that without the herds’ protection life becomes even more tenuous. After the animal shows its submissiveness its allowed back, with out permanent penalties. Unlike animals we don’t necessarily forgive or forget. The old saying about bad blood running in familes is very similar to the phrasing about “corruption of blood. Once bit twice shy sort of reasoning but our ancestors learned that if something hurt once it could do it again.
I think this originated from a inate surviour behaviour in humans that became a religeous and legal concept not just the relationship of a word to actions

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