Social Question

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

In the non-lockup world, why would a lesbian desire a partner that was on the masculine side?

Asked by Hypocrisy_Central (20230 points ) October 1st, 2011

Years ago when I saw this special by Diane Sawyer, on women in prison, I got the thought as to if the same held true outside the walls, if lesbians desire partners that were on the masculine side. There were not a whole lot of lesbians that came through the salon the years I worked there, and I could not sense any leaning off appearances they might have had. The limited exposure I did have with any that come through it was more like one took the role of wearing the britches (being in charge), and the other wearing the panties (being the minor partner); “Butch” and “Femme” I believe they referred to it as. There are a few people in the neighborhood that have done time and none of them would ever admit to being on “swipe” (having a homosexual relationship). The special was surprising to me how many women, even those not confirmed lesbians would opt in to being sexual with another woman. I wonder does having the other woman look masculine make it easier to believe that they are with a man and not another woman?

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22 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

I think your premise is all wrong. It is no different than as a heterosexual I am not attracted to overly muscular men. Most people have a type they are attracted to.

Pandora's avatar

I would think that they feel more feminime being with someone who has some of the attributes of a guy but none of the physical parts. Doesn’t mean they secretly like guys. They are still attracted to women. I would assume in jail. You just get what you get. LOL
Of course I am only guessing since I am not a lesbian nor have ever been in jail.

gailcalled's avatar

Do you mean; Does being in a confined situation, like prison, affect the partner a lesbian would choose?

Yes. And Lesbians is not a generic term. It is an umbrella description for millions of women. They are not in lockstep, whether in or out of prison,)

(Again, I beg you to please reread your text, edit out the odd usage .wordiness and clumsiness. To wit: _I got the thought as to if the same held true outside the walls, if lesbians desire partners that were on the masculine side__)

gailcalled's avatar

Speaking of editing;

Edit: (Again, I beg you to please reread your text, edit out the odd usage, wordiness and clumsiness. To wit: I got the thought as to if the same held true outside the walls, if lesbians desire partners that were on the masculine side)

AshLeigh's avatar

My sister is a lesbian, and her girlfriends always look like men… I don’t get it. >.<

MRSHINYSHOES's avatar

Maybe these lesbians are confused. There’s still a small chance they can find their heterosexuality, huh? Lol.

MissAnthrope's avatar

^^ Ugh. Seriously? ^^

Seriously?

I’m going to try and breathe, in order to answer this calmly and without aggravation, but my hackles are up.

Outside of a confined, forced, all-female environment, if women wanted to be with dudes, they would be with dudes. Period.

Women choosing to be with women is not due to anything other than them being attracted to women. It is not due to a lack of anything and women dating masculine women is no attempt at replacing men. I don’t get why men find it so hard to believe that some women just have zero need or desire for them. I certainly don’t care a whit if gay men don’t want me, or hell, if straight girls don’t want me. There’s no ‘oh, they just haven’t met the right girl yet’ kind of bullshit.

There is no lack. It is what a person is attracted to. Simply. Just like you like the kind of women that you do.

I want to stress the following: DO NOT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER.

Just because some women are more masculine than is socially expected does not mean they want to be a man. Nor does it mean that a woman being attracted to masculine women wants to be with men.

What it means is that a) the woman is more masculine and feels comfortable presenting that way, and b) some women are simply attracted to masculine women. The end.

Now, I fully expect (and hope) @Simone chimes in here because I suspect she will have loads to say on the matter, especially regarding the gender aspect and how people identify. Yes, some masculine women may be transgender, but you in no way can state that they are on par with men. Cause, seriously, they aren’t.

I’m a boyish girl. I’ve always been a boyish girl. I sure as hell do NOT want to be a man. Women who date me appreciate my boyish qualities, but also the fact that I have a woman’s brain. And therein lies the difference. Masculine women are still women.

There is definitely a butch-femme dynamic in the lesbian world. I think of it as a yin-yang kind of thing. In this dynamic, femme women appreciate certain stereotypically masculine qualities, just as butch women appreciate the stereotypically feminine qualities. But you know what? That is only one way, one dynamic. There are about a million different kinds of lesbian.. every woman is different and every relationship is different.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@JLeslie I think your premise is all wrong. It is no different than as a heterosexual I am not attracted to overly muscular men. I beg to disagree. Most of the men I know as well as myself, do not want to couple up with women who look mannish or act like one of the dudes. We want women who act and do what women do. I can’t remember a time anyone that said, ”check out that chick in the saggy jeans and over-sized jersey top”. If anything, it was the gal in the Daisy Dukes, the mini stretch dress or clingy sweater.

MissAnthrope's avatar

I happen to agree with @JLeslie here. You are also a straight dude, talking about stereotypical straight dude desires. The question you’re asking is about women, who, as you might know, are often quite different than stereotypical straight dudes. Anyway, there are evolutionary drives that fuel your attraction to certain kinds of women. It’s different for women; we judge more on a partner’s qualities, such as suitability as a mate and child-rearing partner, rather than looks. That’s not to say there aren’t women that love muscular, masculine guys. I’m sure that if you did a formal study, you’d even find a trend toward a certain type of man. It’s just that.. I don’t know… especially when it comes to gay women, there is, again, a ridiculous amount of variety. Variety in who we are, how we present, how we act, the people we’re attracted to, the types of relationship dynamics, etc., etc.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Straight dudes vs. lesbians. We are not even close, you know?

GabrielsLamb's avatar

This isn’t always the case, I have witnessed and known as loving couples, two fem women together in committed relationships where neither one of them was taking any sort of “masculine” implied rule. As well as two “Butch” [*Please note the quotation marks!] women together as well.

I believe that the natural orderof things is for there to be a contrast always, this being said and understood, does imply to everything. Up, down, right, left, There is ONE instance however where there is no opposite… and that is a conscience choice between two people who are aware of their biology but may very well exhibit these “traits as an internal condition rather than an external showing.

That exception to the differences naturally between all things is… “Side by Side.” Some people understand, some don’t.

Prison has nothing to do with it. When people are placed in lock-down confinements, they naturally revert to survival mode and anything that entails that is necessary for their safety, sanity and well being where it is otherwise not prevelent within said environment naturally.

Prison creates the very same instances that people join together to offset. It is a primal, habitual and self preserving need to be alive, with “human” taking a back seat out of that said necessity for survival.

Prisons are the most racially and sexually segregated institutions naturally, it happens all on its own, no one enforces or dictates that behavior actually those running the show prefer it not be so split and distinctive. Straight Men take on other men and straight women take on other women and race color and creed seperate naturally because this is what we did as primates throughout the course of evolution to exist.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@MRSHINYSHOES “Maybe these lesbians are confused. There’s still a small chance they can find their heterosexuality, huh? Lol” – oh, I’m sorry, that was funny? Must have missed the joke. Maybe they just need to see you in a speedo, you talk about your package so often, it must be god’s gift to women everywhere, a way to straighten all the crookeds, eh? Not funny? Oh, come on…I’ll give you one of my favorite idiotic comebacks…‘don’t get your panties in a bunch!’ There, you’re welcome.

GabrielsLamb's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I for one prefer the “Crookeds.” I love us just the way we are! ♥

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central “We want women who act and do what women do. I can’t remember a time anyone that said, ”check out that chick in the saggy jeans and over-sized jersey top”. – seems to me like she’s doing everything right to have avoided such niceities in her direction as the woman in the daisy dukes sadly does not. If ‘what women do’ is be glared at by men all the live long day, then no thanks.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir seems to me like she’s doing everything right to have avoided such niceities[sic] in her direction as the woman in the daisy dukes sadly does not. So every woman that puts on foundation, lip lacquer, blush, etc is doing so to obtain those niceties from men? A woman dressed like a woman don’t always dress that way to be ogled by men. Using that criteria every woman in heels are not in heels because they might just like them better than constructions boots, but to be noticed by men.

gailcalled's avatar

Trust me on this one (and spend a day in 4” heels if you need empirical proof), most women would never torture themselves in stilettos if they felt more secure. You again use a black and white example of this: vs. this There are a lot of choices along the middle of the spectrum, although I love the look of the women’s Docs.

Do Jimmy Chou or Manola Blahnik wear the shoes they design for women? HA HA HA. They get rich, and women who buy into their designs get leg cramps, lower back aches, corns, bunions,overstretched ham strings and hammer toes.

How admirable do we now think the aristocratic Chinese women who bound their feet for exactly the same spurious reasoning? ”..to obtain niceties(sic) from men” and ”..because they just must like them better than.. <comfortable shoes of your choice and normal feet to fit in them>.”

—You don’t mean niceties. Check the meanings in your dictionary: I’ll give you some more appropriate words later. Off to PT for back ache. (I’ll have to heal my headache myself).

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central A woman dresses however she dresses (what the hell is ‘dress like a woman’?) for a million reasons and they’re all forgotten in that moment ‘yo, honey why don’t you smile? you’d be so pretty if you only smiled’ and then followed by ‘whatever bitch, you’re an ugly ho anyway.’ Yeah, very nice.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir (what the hell is ‘dress like a woman’?) Seriously…..seriously, you have no ideal what that is? You mean to tell me if you were viewing two people with their backs to you with shoulder length hair and nothing in their hand like a Playboy or a purse, you would not have an inkling as to if it were a man or a woman you were viewing?

I do not know what it is like in your neck of the woods, but here when you go into a department store, you will 99.8% of the time find ankles socks, silk fitted bodice, and Capri pants in pink cotton in the women’s clothes section. I am sure you noticed women clothes use different patterns, fit, color arrangements, and often uses silks and chiffon more for everyday wear.

@gailcalled Trust me on this one (and spend a day in 4” heels if you need empirical proof), most women would never torture themselves in stilettos if they felt more secure. So, you are taking the position that most, (your word, not mine), women only wear 4” heels, or better is because they are insecure. Not because they simply love them, or think they are fashionable. Would that go for skinny jeans, booty shorts, minis, and sheer tops too?Damn that Sex In The City, duping all those women not smart enough to see through the conspiracy.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Oh you mean ‘clothing expected of a woman to wear’?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Yes…..what else would a woman wear? Most men I know always spoke of how the woman presented in what she was wearing. I guess for lack of a better word or phrase, they gravitated to women who looked like traditional women, hair, makeup (if any), dress, etc.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central What else? Anything else.

GabrielsLamb's avatar

Women do not consciously dress for men… Heels, tight clothing, all of it was intent upon competing with other women, just like men compete with other men. The fact that men notice, is just the result not the reason. Women would, compete with one another FOR one another if the tides switched up, as well as men would continue to do the same. Women express it through cosmetics and clothing and scent, but the point is more to out do other women the fact that it is beneficial for mens sexual needs subconsciously becomes an after thought.

It is always about gaining the best and most suitable partner the strongest genes for continuation of the race. But technically the comptition is for one another… most of the time we are looking at your girlfriends not you. Guys are just the prize… You compete to compete and to win. Does it really matter what the prize actually is? Think about that for a sec honestly before answering.

In beauty pagents… do they REALLY want the plastic tiara and the $50 bucks stapled to a paper plate? Is that the point?

spykenij's avatar

Oooh, oooh, oooh! I always say, “According to Diane Sawyer, I’m a hot comodity in today’s prison system; strong enough for him, but she’ll like it too and tastes great, less filling.” :)

Honestly, I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people are just being themselves, like myself. I have always been my mom’s “daughter, the son.” I am the best of both worlds. I’m just a Nikki and I have a strong urge to protect girls from harm, so all the girls I’ve been with, they’ve all felt safe with me (in so many ways) and that’s an awesome thing. It can be very comforting. I am attracted to all types of girls, not just femmes. I’ll tell you where chivalry went, it went to the lesbians that know how to treat women. I like to open doors for girls, give them my coat when they are cold, heat them up with my blast furnice-like abilities…and just be sweet to them. A lot of femmes like this and a lot of butches do too, but there are some who don’t know how to handle that being done in return, like myself. My current/last (not sure yet) relationship was/is (?) with a soft butch. She has short hair (my only fetish to date), blue eyes, is shorter and a much smaller build than I. I was always attracted to soft butches, but had never been with one until 6 yrs ago (as of November 15, 2011). This girl is amazing. I was looking at her and looking at her and looking at her profile on myspace. I was too afraid to send anything to her because she is 10 yrs older than I, but eventually she messaged me. We just kept popping up in each other’s area and finally, she sent me a message and we talked…A LOT and very easily too. I was on top of the world them, living in what I like to call my “poon palace” aka bitchin townhome and she was living with an ex and wanting out. She came out all right and I sparked up a fire that still burns white hot within me. I still get butterflies for crying out loud. I wish she’d come to her senses and come home. Sigh… Anyway, yeah – we are out here and some of us just like the androgyny of it all. It’s all just personal preference and attraction.

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