Social Question

cazzie's avatar

What do you think of this woman and what she is saying and do you think she deserves to be arrested, and if so, charged with what?

Asked by cazzie (19122 points ) November 29th, 2011

It shows an English woman verbally ‘expressing herself’.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i47HoiM0Au8&feature=share

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39 Answers

marinelife's avatar

She has a right to be publicly racist. It reflects badly on her. I feel sorry for her child. She is so hate-filled.

She has committed no crime.

If I were actually English, I would cringe to be associated with her.

Blackberry's avatar

I believe she was already arrested for racially aggravated harrassment. I obviously do not like her and it’s sad that she’s raising a kid, so I don’t care that she was arrested to be honest.

JLeslie's avatar

I really hate when people swear every other word or even have a curse word on a t-shirt they are wearing. I swear myself all too often, but not loudly where other people’s children are easily within earshot. Now add in her racist views, especially that a child, a minority child might hear these hateful things, it makes me sick. It would probably be best to ignore her then engage with her. I would suspect her of having mental illness to behave in such a way. I don’t think she can be arrested, on one hand freedom of speech in America (I realize this clip is not from America) does not protect someone to speak if it encites a riot, but I doubt this qualifies, as she was not pursuading others to act in a violent way, but it certainly was speech that can stir up an altercation of some sort. I would not seek to have the woman arrested for what she did, but there might be laws in England to arrest her.

In America, during the last presidential race, all over our media people were accusing Obama of being Muslim, like it was the worst thing in the world. Also, as we know, accusing him of not being an American. All I could think was if I were raising young Muslim-American children I would be horrified that there was a constant message that it is terrible if Obama is a Muslim. We also have people in our media talking about Hispanics and other immigrants as though they are all criminals. It is said in a more civilized way, not a rant in a bus or tram, but still, the message is so similar.

janbb's avatar

One would have to know the laws in England regarding creating a public nuisance and hate-mongering. I would guess there might be grounds for her arrest while spouting off on the train (as opposed to Speaker’s Corner, for example.) She certainly is hateful.

Coloma's avatar

Just another disturbed person spouting their disturbances.
I see it for what it is, mental illness and delusional thinking. Sad.

bongo's avatar

I don’t agree that someone can have a right to being publicly racist, that is not freedom of speech that is racial hatred. Freedom is speech is one thing but publicly swearing and harassing a peaceful group of people is completely different. She is racially aggravating public order. That is illegal and she has been arrested.
You can’t just go shouting at people like that. People do not act like that. There is a certain way people are allowed to act with each other in society and mouthing off on a train swearing at everyone is not the way to behave. I am glad that she was arrested. I feel extremely sorry for that child and everyone on that train that was put in that situation. I am English and I would never consider myself to be associated with her.

Edit:
She has been charged under Racially Aggravated Section 4a of the public order act

LuckyGuy's avatar

I’m guessing they will find either drugs or alcohol in her system or she didn’t take her meds.
Anyone want to bet a coffee on it?

Poor kid. Wait until he’s older and friends show him this video.

By the way, I like how the girl in the black oversized top placated the black guy just behind the loudmouth. She defused a potentially bad situation and deserves a good citizenship award.

Coloma's avatar

You can’t argue with a sick mind. Who said that?

wonderingwhy's avatar

Irrespective of whatever laws abound, as far as I’m concerned she’s a right to say what she likes. Now whether or not she has, or should have, a right to say what she likes over and over and over and over and over again to what amounts to a captive audience after they’ve said enough, that’s a tougher debate.

wilma's avatar

@worriedguy By the way, I like how the girl in the black oversized top placated the black guy just behind the loudmouth. She defused a potentially bad situation and deserves a good citizenship award.

I noticed that too. Just goes to show you that something nice can overcome something awful.
I sure do feel sorry for that poor child on her lap.

CaptainHarley's avatar

I can’t speak for what could happen in England, but in the US this woman is exercising her right to freedom of speech… profanely and racially, but free speech nonetheless.

john65pennington's avatar

Wonder if her child will grow up to be just like her?

Children act and repeat what they hear from their parents.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Just because we don’t like what another person says does not mean that we have the right to lock her up. That’s the perogative of dictatorships.

Jude's avatar

Poor kid.

Blackberry's avatar

I also think it comical that this British person, of all people, would complain about people coming to her country…..

cazzie's avatar

I think it was use of pagoratives and the fact that she directly addressed people and used abusive language, @CaptainHarley. She wasn’t just saying what she thought, she was addressing people and telling them, personally to F* off. That is abusive public behaviour and I’m with @bongo on this one. Express yourself all you like on your blog or in your home, but do not verbally abuse people in a public place or use that type of language around children.

@Blackberry I thought that was hilarious too! I was waiting for a black South African, or Kenyan to start giving her a history lesson, but it would have been water off an ignorant, sick ducks back. (no offence to any lovely duck that may be reading this)

JLeslie's avatar

I was just thinking in America they could arrest her on disorderly conduct I think. Once arrested probably she would be evaluated for mental illness, and they could hold her probably for a few days.

I have seen more than one mentally ill person speaking too loudly in public areas, saying incoherent rambings. Usually people ignore them, but if they seem dangerous or very irratic they might be arrested and brought to the local metal health facility for an evaluation and some drugs. She is not incoherent, but she obviously does not know how to behave in society; civil society demands a certain amount of obedience.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

What a sad story. I hope @worriedguy is right and that the woman is incompacitated in some way, not that her behavior would offer an excuse…just an explanation.

The challenge with any video clip is that we don’t know the whole story yet. This is why it is important to have a judicial systerm. They attempt to drill down to the facts that paint the bigger picture. It’s good to read that she has been arrested. Let the truth come out before we pass judgement.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

I really wanted to punch her in the head. I thought the guy behind her was getting ready to. I know, violence isn’t the answer, but it would have been so sweet.

JLeslie's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe I don’t feel that way at all. I was upset the guy behind her seemed to be making a move. I don’t know what was in his mind, maybe he just was going to say something to her, but I really don’t understand being compelled towards violence in this case.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@JLeslie I’m usually extremely tolerant, but any kind of abuse sets me off. Just something with me.

cazzie's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe I know what you mean, but you can’t beat stupid out of people.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

Wow. I couldn’t have come up with a better thought. You might have just kept me out of trouble.

cazzie's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe you’re welcome.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@cazzie

That would still be her right, if she lived in the US. Like I say, I’m not sure how that works in the UK.

cazzie's avatar

@CaptainHarley http://www.ehow.com/how_5017282_defend-against-verbal-abuse-charges.html

About ‘fighting words’
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=13718

I don’t think she could defend herself using this criteria. There is a line and she crossed it.

bongo's avatar

@CaptainHarley In the UK to racially abuse people and aggravate public order like that is illegal. I wouldn’t want to live anywhere that it isn’t.

I don’t think that it would be right to protect her on grounds of free speech. Surely that means that everyone can go round mouthing off at anyone they don’t like the look of swearing at them for no reason! That is not what I would call a civilized society.
If people went round openly swearing at you and picking up on something about you for example the way you look, and saying that you do not deserve to be there and then that person was protected by law of freedom of speech to swear at and insult you. I am not sure you would be too happy to let that person go around without some kind of punishment. Or would you? Would you be happy if people started openly being able to swear at and insult you or your family for whatever reason and get away with it?

If she has those views she should keep them to herself. There was NO reason to go spouting off on one to those innocent people.

@Cazzie I love what you said there “you cant beat the stupid out of people!”

cazzie's avatar

I can’t take credit. It’s from Proverbs but paraphrased and something my dad used to say. My dad had some GREAT sayings.

Proverbs 27:22
Even if you beat a fool until he’s half dead, you still can’t beat his foolishness out of him.

JLeslie's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe So your goal was to just shut her up any way possible, is that it? Would that be your intent if you hit her? Or, are you so angry you want to punish her? I’m just curious.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@JLeslie That was me lashing out in a fit of stupid rage. No goal at all. Pretty dumb, I know.

JLeslie's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe I can understand that.

Coloma's avatar

So, it’s settled, never try to beat a fool…I’ll drink to that! lol

CaptainHarley's avatar

@cazzie

I can live with this ruling: “Emphasizing that the mere offensiveness of words does not strip them of constitutional protection, the Court again noted that fighting words must present an actual threat of immediate violence, not merely offensive content.”

Since this rather diminutive woman had no means for “presenting an actual threat of immediate violence” against those present, her speech would be protected.

Countrybumkin's avatar

She is obviously ignorant and afraid. Afraid of different packaging. We all bleed red. Maybe she thinks she bleeds blue because she is from England. If everyone ignored her she would have shut her ignorant mouth. She got got want she wanted. I dont think she broke any laws. Poor child. Ignorance begets ignorance.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@Countrybumkin

And afraid of change.

Symbeline's avatar

@Blackberry Yeah no shit lol. XD

That girl they show for a few seconds, just playing on her cellphone or whatever and acting like nothing’s happening, she’s all like, fuck it. Lol.

But yeah…eh. What’s that woman’s problem? Seriously. I don’t like what she says for two secs, but if it was over here, (denno the laws of England) she would have the right to say whatever she wanted, no matter how offensive. However, a legitimate reason to have her arrested would be for disrupting the peace.

Brian1946's avatar

@Symbeline

“However, a legitimate reason to have her arrested would be for disrupting the peace.”

I agree, and the level of disruption is key to me.

If some little old lady was quietly muttering bigoted crap to herself, I’d have very little trouble carrying on what I was doing, whereas if some psycho was yelling, “Brian1946 is the bitchinest dude in the world!” and I was trying to enjoy a meal within earshot, I’d report his ass for the reason you stated.

Symbeline's avatar

Well, yeah. Most of these people were either beginning or ending their day. Who needs that bullshit? What she’s saying sucks, but she is allowed to say it. Just don’t bother people with it lol.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)

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