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Dutchess_III's avatar

Can you succinctly explain the logic behind the first amendment, popularly known as Separation of Church and State?

Asked by Dutchess_III (46830points) August 12th, 2013

And can you give me an example of a nation that does not, or historically did not, have this kind of law in place and the impact it has or had on its citizens?

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12 Answers

Seek's avatar

Well, in Saudi Arabia you can rape your five year old daughter to death and pay only a small fine to the government, because the Koran says she’s your property.

Lightlyseared's avatar

A large number of people who founded the colonies that became the US, came there to freely practice their religion because in many European countries at the time it was difficult to practice any religion other than the state religion. The only way to create a state where everyone feels “American” but at the same time is allowed to keep practicing their religion without fear of persecution was to separate the two.

ragingloli's avatar

Another question is, who did the traitors against the crown “founders” see as the potential offender?
Did they see religion as the offender, usurping worldly power, or did they see worldly power as the culprit, trying to hijack religion to gain more power over believers?
There seems to be a divide between right and left as to this question.
Rightists seem to believe the latter, while leftists believe the former.

I think the answer should be pretty clear, seeing that kings and emperors were all beholden to the pope and the church, with the vatican ruling supreme

phaedryx's avatar

Look at examples of “Church of X” where X is a country, e.g. Church of Sweden, Church of England, and Church of Norway

Blondesjon's avatar

@ragingloli . . . ‘ol hank the eighth found some nifty ways to thumb his nose at the pope

josie's avatar

At the time of the framing of the Constitution, many of the States had institutionalized State Churches, most noteworthy, Massachusetts. There was a concern that the Federal Government might establish a Federal Church that would “trump” the State churches.
That is the purpose of that part of the First Amendment, and little more.
The words “Separation of Church and State” do not appear anywhere in the Constitution.
As you know.

But the doctrine of “Separation of Church and State”, even if it is never mentioned, is a fortunate misinterpretation of the Constitution and of history.

Look at any Islamic State, and compare them to any [somewhat secular] State in the West. Compare their technological development, compare how they treat women, compare what they have contributed to scientific literature, or even literacy. It is a hint at what happens when mysticism sits at the center of power.

JLeslie's avatar

The First Amendment the way I remember it prohibits the government from establishing a religion, as @josie pointed out the actual words separartion of church and state are not in the constitution. If my history is right we may have been the first if not one of the first nations to actually prohibit it and protect people’s individual religious rights in a constitution. Most other countries at the time of our founding used religion to help rule the citizenry. It is one of the many things I cite as brilliant regarding the establishment of the United States of America, setting us apart at the time from countries around the world. Many of the people who settled here had fled their countries for religious freedom having been oppressed religiously in their country. Sadly, we seem to have the threat of people wanting to do away with this freedom. More and more wanting to inject their religion into the government.

josie's avatar

@JLeslie
No need to act from memory. Here it is.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

As simple as it gets

And what is more, it is the FIRST amendment. Meaning it is the most fundamental.

JLeslie's avatar

I thought I would give this link that is related but not exactly. I was reading it a couple of months ago when I was n Savannah so it came to mind. It’s about one of the first (I think it was the third) synagogues established in the US, which happened to be in Savannah. The people who first arrived came over from London, but before that they had fled Portugal because they could not practice Judaism. America was sought for opportunity and religious freedom, which really means something if your people have been viciously oppressed, sometimes murdered or banished. Jewish people, especially going back in history, really took this freedom very seriously. Many people talk about who wrote the consitituion and the founding fathers, and Jewish people are not really mentioned that much back in the 1700’s when we talk about the history of America, but they were there also, and a clear example of needing a safe place to live where they could practice their religion and be equal.

kritiper's avatar

The logic may be that the government couldn’t make you go to or believe in their church. Read up on King Henry the 8th and the Church of England.

Dutchess_III's avatar

And the church can’t control the government.

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