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Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Is there a reason anyone should make a stink over a girl receiving the honor of being Samba Queen at Carnival?

Asked by Hypocrisy_Central (22082 points ) April 4th, 2014

In Carnival passed Julia Lira was bestowed the honor of being hailed Samba Queen, to the chagrin of some. I can’t figure out why. When Jessica Dubroff who was the same age (7 yr.) was attempting to break some record by being the youngest pilot to fly coast to coast, or something like that, she surely had the support of her family and many well-wishers. We know how that turned out. Samba dancing at Carnival is in no way dangerous. Julia may never get that coveted place again, why did not people just let her enjoy her moment without controversy. Why do you think people would make a bigger flap over dancing then flying a plane?

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43 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

Because once again, it’s about the sexualization of a young girl. And flying an airplane is not about sexualization of a 7 year old. But we already know @Hypocrisy_Central, from other posts, that you don’t find sexualization of children at all disturbing.

It’s wrong, and bad parenting. She is not old enough to know what a bad choice it is for her.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@zenvelo But we already know @Hypocrisy_Central, from other posts, that you don’t find sexualization of children at all disturbing.
If you knew what you were talking about, I would comment on that. If you really knew how I would stop as you call it, the sexualization of young people, women, turtles or whatever you feel in your world is sexualization you would not like it; maybe you better have a talk with schools, advertisers and the likes. The ‘we’ is no ‘we’ but all you, so own it.

Because once again, it’s about the sexualization of a young girl. And flying an airplane is not about sexualization of a 7 year old.
Well, now we can get to the part that is not filled with hot air, or loaded with smoke and mirrors. I did not create their Brazilian custom, what they believe is sexualizing and what is not I don’t know. What I do know is dancing is not as dangerous as flying a plane to break a record. Would you concur or am I to believe you think that a 7 year old should be allowed to fly a plane more than dancing at a festival that is as part of the nation ad baseball is here? Seeing that it is such a major part of their culture I would believe being hailed Samba Queen would be equal to being dubbed grand marshal in a parade here. But here I will put a word in your mouth based off what you posted, it is better for a 7 year old to risk her life in a plane then dance in any festival that has any inking of sensuality involved with it, loss of live notwithstanding.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@zenvelo @ragingloli Seeing people are not running on all cylinders here, let be dumb it down, simplify it. Here are the facts, seeing you have not read them or plain ignored them:

• You have two girls both 7 years of age.
• One wants to fly coast to coast to break some record.
• The Brazilian girl just wants to dance but is handed an honor in her nation.
• The pilot girl is doing a high risk activity.
• The Brazilian girl a very low risk activity.
• The aim of the pilot girl is bragging rights if not somehow parlay the feat into a book, movie, or speaking deal.
• The Brazilian girl for all intensive purpose was not seeking anything but the joy of being in the festival.
• The Pilot girl had lots of supporters in her risky endeavor.
• The Brazilian girl has scoffers simply because she was dubbed Samba Queen in a no-risk activity; not so much that she is even dancing in the festival.
• Trying for bragging rights one girl heavily supported died.
• Another girl who just wanted to dance got honored without danger and lives to this day.

The premise of the question is why get upset because someone dances well to get an honor in their nation and not be as upset when some girl is doing a possible foolish feat that can be dangerous just to beat some record?
Is that simple enough for you to follow, or do I have to simplify it even more, so you can focus?

@ragingloli Here is a shocker for you……it isn’t a morals question. That would be the last subject I would converse you on, but if you feel yours is under attack, maybe it doesn’t have legs.

johnpowell's avatar

You might have been better off if you had actually linked to a article discussing the outrage instead of just linking to two images of a scantily clad young girl.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

I have to do everyone’s home work for them? No one post every article for me to believe half of what they say. The photo was so people can see who was being spoken of. I thought of posting the pic of the pilot but she is dead, so what would the point in that be? I guess I needed to post that article too, I guess.

edit
Can’t see where “scantily clad” comes in when she is wearing more than a day at the beach by far.

johnpowell's avatar

Well, yeah, you should add context if it is available. You went through the trouble to find the images and you clearly know how to link. I had no fucking clue what you were talking about. A link to what you were actually talking about would have been great. I formally apologize for having no clue what a Samba Queen is or who won it.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Now you have all the facts, can we focus or are We going to be hung up because she wasn’t dancing in a burka?

Samba Queen: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/05/julia-lira-preteen-carniv_n_451410.html

Dead pilot girl: http://tech.mit.edu/V116/N18/pilot.18w.html

No need to apologize for anything, just know Google works for anyone ;-}

whitenoise's avatar

I actually have less of an issue with a seven year old girl becoming the brazilian version of a cheer leader then her becoming a pilot.

It seems however unclear that the crash of the seven year old pilot had anything to do with her age. She was unlicesned, with an instructor, so the instructor was flying the aircraft.

So actually, unless you – seemingly again – want to steer this into a discussion about sexualizing young children, I don’t see the issue, nor the connection between these two incidents.

Were the people opposing the girl’s role the same as the ones supporting the pilot girl? And… are these positions indeed mutually excluding each other?

With respect to the dancing girl… you are talking about Brazil… The other girl was in the US!!!

I see no connection….

whitenoise's avatar

To paint some background on the “support” given to the seven year old “pilot”:

From wikipedia:
The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigated the crash and concluded it was caused by the flight instructor’s improper decision to take off in poor weather conditions, his overloading the aircraft, and his failure to maintain airspeed, which resulted in a stall. The NTSB also determined that “contributing to the [instructor’s] decision to take off was a desire to adhere to an overly ambitious itinerary, in part, because of media commitments.”[2]

Although she had received over 66 hours of flight training, seven-year-old Jessica did not hold an FAA medical certificate, nor any pilot or student certificate. In the U.S., a person must be at least 16 years of age [...] A rated pilot [...] had to be at the controls during all flight operations. While the coast-to-coast flight was promoted as a “record” attempt because of Dubroff’s young age, there was no known body recognizing record flights by under-age “pilots” at the time of her flight (the Guinness Book of Records had officially discontinued its “youngest pilot” categories seven years earlier, because of the risk of accidents).

The flight would be made in [an aircraft with] dual flight controls in the front.[5] Jessica would sit in the front left seat, Reid in the front right, and Lloyd in the back. [...] Reid reportedly told his wife that he considered the flight a “non-event for aviation,” simply “flying cross country with a 7-year-old sitting next to you and the parents paying for it.”

I don’t see the support by so many people…nor the real danger, had this Reid behaved as the trained professional he was…

I think your question is addressing / painting a non-existent dichotomy. There never even was a seven year old pilot.

whitenoise's avatar

And to answer your question:

The risk the brazilian girl was taking was being sexualized at a young age… What were the measures taken to prevent this risk? Seems these measures don’t match well with the event according to many people. The role she takes on is a role that can in its context hardly be fully de-sexualized.

What were the risks the flying girl was exposed to? Regardless of its outcome… These were handled seriously and should never have materialized. She had an instructor on the righ seat all of the time!!!! She actually never became the pilot that controlled the aircraft.

janbb's avatar

It seems illogical to me to set up false dichotomies. One could be upset by either, neither or both situations but they have no relationship to each other.

jerv's avatar

Those who are so focused on the sexualization are obviously incapable of understanding other cultures and therefore assume that every nation on Earth is either American or wrong.

Is it impossible for people to look at things from alternative viewpoints? Is our culture the only one that is valid and moral? Are people just looking for a reason to get worked up? If the last has any truth to it, why does a 7-year-old being Samba Queen in Brazil piss you off more than the millions of children that are starving right in your homeland?

So, to the original question, I think people are making a big stink because they’re narrow-minded, chauvinistic, and have their priorities all fucked up.

Response moderated (Off-Topic)
whitenoise's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central

There have been a lot of holes shot into your story, introducing this question.

You didn’t respond to any of that… Does this mean you gave up on this question and we can ignore it from here?

It leaves me wondering, why you painted such a distorted picture of the two situations… That to me indicates that you were not truly looking for an answer to your question. After all, in that case you would have given more objective information. Such information was quite easy to find… as you wrote…‘Google works for anyone’.

So… What did you want to discuss?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@whitenoise You didn’t respond to any of that… Does this mean you gave up on this question and we can ignore it from here?
Holes? You wish. At been posted one girl lost her life trying to break a record that was not even going to be recognized. Do you dispute that? Whether or not she was at the controls when the plane actually went down, chances are she would have not been in that plane if it had not been for trying to break the record, do you dispute that? Flying a plane is far more risky than dancing in a parade, do you dispute that? She could not have gone on a quest without the support of her parents and most likely others, do you dispute that? In the Brazilian culture being dubbed the Queen of Samba and leading the parade is a great honor, I guess you dispute that too? If a girl gets there because of her samba prowess what reason is there to get bent over, it is not like her samba is going to crash on the tarmac killing her. Maybe she might get a heart attack, is that what you are afraid of, or she might get ran over by a float and crushed? Where is the danger? Why should no one support her for accomplishing a great honor in her nation?

@jerv Those who are so focused on the sexualization are obviously incapable of understanding other cultures and therefore assume that every nation on Earth is either American or wrong.

Is it impossible for people to look at things from alternative viewpoints? Is our culture the only one that is valid and moral? Are people just looking for a reason to get worked up? If the last has any truth to it, why does a 7-year-old being Samba Queen in Brazil piss you off more than the millions of children that are starving right in your homeland?
Rodger that!

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central

Except that the girl wasn’t flying the plane, a seasoned pilot was. The girl effectively no more than a passenger. Not sure what’s difficult to understand about that.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Darth_Algar Not sure what’s difficult to understand about that.
It is you who failed to understand. She may have been a passenger when the plane crashed but she piloted the plane, why else would she be trying to be the youngest person to fly coast to coast if she was just going to be a mere passenger? If the weather had been good, I am sure she would have had full command of the controls. You can hat dance around that or minimize the risk all you want, that doesn’t change anything.

Darth_Algar's avatar

No, she did not pilot the plane. This has been explained but you’re ether ignoring or failing to understand it.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

So she was just flying coast to coast for the fun of it, that is what you are saying?

whitenoise's avatar

Can we revisit negative lurve? ;-)

@Hypocrisy_Central

Please…. Read my answers before you respond. Even the NTSB confirmed that the girl wasn’t piloting the plane. She never was a pilot!

Not reading people’s responses and still dismissing them is impolite.

whitenoise's avatar

On top… You are painting a false dichotomy… I would support both girls in their efforts.

You claim you want to understand why people in general would have problems with the Samba girl. There is no reason to think, however, that these would support the flying girl, or not care about millions of dying other girls. There is no connection.

Since you are however ignoring answers to your question and you’ve frequently indicated you don’t like topical drift; what do you want to talk about?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@whitenoise Please…. Read my answers before you respond. Even the NTSB confirmed that the girl wasn’t piloting the plane. She never was a pilot!
OK, if we go off semantics, she was never a official pilot nevertheless, she flew planes.

There is no reason to think, however, that these would support the flying girl, or not care about millions of dying other girls. There is no connection.
I am not the originator of the comment about starving children but I can see where that poster is coming from. There is no connection of the situations, and that was not the point. The point was one even is risky and the other has so little danger you’d need an electron microscope to find it. Yet the outcry against a 7 year old girl flying a plane did not come out until the plane crashed; an apparently while chasing a record that was not going to be recognized. The other 7 year old girl because of her talent, was bestowed a high honor for her nation and even before she dance in head of the parade there was an outcry. Maybe she should have had the courtesy of dancing 1st before anyone piped up with displeasure, if she was still alive at the end of the parade route and not pizza toppings on a rainy hillside, all was good.

Since you are however ignoring answers to your question and you’ve frequently indicated you don’t like topical drift; what do you want to talk about?
I am not ignoring any answer that deals with the question. If I am talking about the high salaries in baseball, what good is it to engage a person talking about driver safety in NASCAR? What does auto racing have to do with baseball? No one really wants to talk about what I could bring up, they can’t even stomach the small stuff I do bring up.

whitenoise's avatar

Come on @Hypocrisy_Central. Neither of these activities was particularly dangerous.

I would really like to discuss with you, but how can you seriously not see the flaws in the premises that underlie your question?

It is not about semantics. The aircraft has double yokes, meaning that the person in the right seat can fully take over control at any time. Actually in an aircraft the right seat is reserved for the captain. Reid satint the right seat of the aircraft.

Flying an aircraft as a passenger is not a particularly dangerous thing for a child and its level of risk is not correlated to her age.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@whitenoise Flying an aircraft as a passenger is not a particularly dangerous thing for a child and its level of risk is not correlated to her age.
Then what about these liars, huh? There are some key excerpts you can read and I am sure you haver some plausible explanation as to why they would post blatant inaccuracies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff
Jessica Whitney Dubroff (May 5, 1988 – April 11, 1996) was a seven-year-old pilot trainee who died attempting to become the youngest person to fly an airplane across the United States.
http://articles.philly.com/1996-04-13/news/25662074_1_hathaway-fatal-flight-lloyd-dubroff
The tragic crash has sparked federal officials to re-examine licensing regulations, as many asked why a 4-foot-2 child who needed extensions to reach the plane’s pedals was allowed to fly cross-country.

Why would they say attempt to be the youngest person to fly a plane if she were merely a passenger? Why not say ”fly in a plane” across cross-country? It would not make since seeing babies younger than her has done it. Explain why a passenger needs to have extenders to reach the pedals of a plane they are not flying? Maybe explain why two independent sources decided it is best to lie about it, were they trying to help her family get a book or movie deal?

whitenoise's avatar

Unbelievable… Partlf me hopes you are trolling… The alternative is likely sadder…

Airplanes have double controls… She can sit and fly from the left, while the instructor has supreme control on the right… As long as all is fine, she will be flying, if she would make the tiniest mistake, the instructor would correct it.

The aircraft crashed because it took off in bad weather while overladen. It took off underthe responsibility of an instructor, who was controlling the plane from the right seat… What is Russian about that?

I flew a Boeing 747 that way once, on its way to Hong Kong…
Trust me… It was the guy in the rit seat that had control…

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@whitenoise The aircraft crashed because it took off in bad weather while overladen. It took off underthe responsibility of an instructor, who was controlling the plane from the right seat… What is Russian about that?
The only Russian mixed with Chinese here is yours. I am not disputing the fact the trained instructor took off and most likely crashed the plane. It is not an issue whether or not the FAA considered her an official pilot. It doesn’t even matter if it has duel controls; your 747 would have had those but only one person flies at a time. You seem to think those people posting those articles are lying when they said she attempted to be the youngest person to fly coat-to-coast. Do you mean them to say something else? If they say she is attempting to fly the plane to be the youngest person to do it, what does that mean to you, that she flew as a mere passenger and she at no time ever flew that plane? If that is what you get from it, there is nothing more we can discuss, because you want to ignore what independent sources has said about it, and they may know more than we.

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Darth_Algar's avatar

That some people were calling it an attempt to be the youngest person to attempt a coast-to-coast flight does not mean that she actually was attempting to be the youngest person to fly coast-to-coast. It’s really not that difficult man. And the media can be stunningly full of shit. While a journalist might not be deliberately lying, people in the media will often misunderstand, misconstrue and misinterpret stories, in addition to media propensity for exaggeration and hyperbole. You should realize this by now.

whitenoise's avatar

Dear mod. I cannot flag from my iPhone, but suggest you take out some more.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Darth_Algar While a journalist might not be deliberately lying, people in the media will often misunderstand, misconstrue and misinterpret stories, in addition to media propensity for exaggeration and hyperbole.
And you have inside knowledge they sexed this story up? I suppose journalist care little about their journalistic integrity. I suppose next time I read a news article on a man with dark glasses, goatee, Gray hair wearing a Cavalier jacket who got busted trying to rob bank so-and-so, I should assume he was really trying to put money in and only took his handgun out of his pocket because he was on his way to the gun range and wanted to see if he had the safety on. Surely he could not actually have tried to rob the bank as the news folk say, they are all liars that hype up a story for the sensational value of it. Thanks for getting me straight on that~~ Now I know half of what they say about Obama is totally wrong or overblown so I do not even have to give them the time of day.,

whitenoise's avatar

You are right @Hypo.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central

Are you naturally this obtuse or is it part of an act?

Response moderated (Personal Attack)

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