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josie's avatar

Why is the West so timid about asserting it's "goodness"?

Asked by josie (30934points) August 11th, 2017

The West, through legislation and war settled the moral argument about human slavery.
The West recognized the role of women in the politics and economy of a civilization
The West put the mystical church in its proper place in politics.
The West advocates the rights of the individual
The West gives credit to the rational decisions of the consumer in a market place.
These are, in my opinion, marvelous things.
And yet, the West seems to be confused and bothered by doubt about whether or not they are morally correct.
But given the debates about the above notwhithstanding, the West probably is morally about as good as it gets.

So what is the problem?

Why the hesitation when it comes to morally wrong people like the Kim family, the Assad family, and Vladimir Putin.
They are wrong.
Why isn’t it viewed as something virtuous to do something about them

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12 Answers

johnpowell's avatar

Again.. I don’t really know anyone that is clamoring to move to any of the three nations you listed. I’m super lefty and think all three examples are fucking horrible led by horrible people.

I have never met a person that said, “Kim Jong-un has the right idea.”

stanleybmanly's avatar

The problem is that the West has been heavily involved in promoting and extending each and every one of those evils, and to a large extent is still entangled in benefitting from them. We’re in no position to pat ouselves on the back, and our failure to recognize the hypocrisy around lecturing others is amply noted.

MrGrimm888's avatar

The US has no right to assert anything on a sovereign nation. I accept our right to defend ourselves. Otherwise, the US is the evil one…

Sneki2's avatar

Other things the west has done was playing the world police, deciding what is right and wrong, and enslaving all the “wrong ones”. That is called colonialism and an expansionist mentality, and it has destroyed whole civilisations.
It is also the reason why people on the east (and everywhere else) tend to hate the west.
You brought it upon yourselves with your “my way or the highway” crap.

zenvelo's avatar

The values of which you speak are not agreed to by the powers that be in the West, and over the last hundred years there has been continual pushes to overturn them. And, those values have not been spread to any of the countries the West has exploited.

There is a significant portion of the US population that views all of those “goodnesses” as corrupt and wrong.

rojo's avatar

Because we cannot be consistent. It all has to do with the pursuit of the almighty dollar. We, or rather our government, can tolerate any and all kinds of evil if we can make money off of it. Were there some kind of litmus test or were we able to view things without an eye toward how much we can profit from it then you might be able to establish some kind of moral high ground but as long as you will accept death and destruction from one party because you are making money from it but not accept if if it is not putting money into your bank account then you cannot expect to be able to establish any kind of “goodness” scale that we can adhere to.
We put up with all kinds of evil from Saddam Hussein when he was “our” dictator; he only became evil when he decided to go his own way. We tolerate the evil perpetrated by Saudi Arabia because American Corporations and many of our political elite are in bed with and profit from them. We allow genocide in many different African nations because we are not heavily invested in them and stopping it would cost us money, not make us money so fuck it, let them kill each other, no big deal.
And you mentioned Assad. The US had no problem with Assad, in fact considered Syria an ally for many years but Assad accepted and actually courted Russian help after the US was convinced by Israel to dump him for what they perceived as anti-jewish actions; to whit, supporting Hezbollah in Lebanon. So he does nothing different now than he did when he was an ally but now he is suddenly evil. .

MrGrimm888's avatar

Another question might be “why does the world tolerate the US asserting itself?” The answer is referred to as “terrorism,” from foreign groups, and countries.
They don’t tolerate it. They lash out in the only ways they can.

Remember Pat Tillman anyone?

He was a Pro Bowl safety, for the Arizona Cardinals. A millionaire, amongst many other positive things. After 9/11, he joined the military, for revenge. Leaving all his fame, and fortune.

When people feel threatened by a foreign enemy, they will stop at no lengths to go after that enemy…. The US’s actions in the world, have created many such people. Their actions validate extremist’s recruitment rhetoric.

In the US war for independence, war was waged in ways that would be considered “terrorist” acts today, and were by the British Empire then.

Forcing a belief system, or “asserting it’s goodness” by a foriegn power, creates insurgents. Then that creates a war of insurgency. An
unwinnable war, with horrific consequences…

LostInParadise's avatar

Trump just loves Putin. While he trashes Sessions and McConnell, he praises Putin for removing the cost of all those diplomats he is expelling. Might we be in danger of losing some of our freedoms to an autocrat?

ragingloli's avatar

What goodness?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Just a guess, but many of their ideals were revolutionary, therefore “threatening” to many. California was probably viewed as a hotbed of sin.

Soubresaut's avatar

I don’t think the West is timid in asserting its goodness. At least in the US, we’re kind of all about calling ourselves the “shining city on the hill,” the “leader of the free world,” etc. From what little I understand about history, even calling ourselves part of “The West” is a bit of an ideological move. The roots and influences of “western culture” aren’t as separate from the rest of the world as that term tends to portray them.

I also don’t think anyone who’s remotely knowledgeable about the three regimes you mentioned would say that they’re “our” moral equivalent. Those three leaders all lead blatantly corrupt regimes which, to varying degrees, are known for killing dissenters. The problem is, just because something might be wrong, it doesn’t mean it’s easy to solve or to stop. Geopolitics are some complex, delicate, intricate shit.

Also, to nitpick a bit, that list seems a bit simplified to me. For example, sure, “the West” put an end to slavery. But “the West” also ramped slavery up to its more horrific extremes… I’m not saying slavery wasn’t bad before, I’m just saying it got significantly worse for an individual slave when “the West” made it a massive merchant industry. Maybe instead of focusing on our moral superiority, we should focus on basic human rights, and on the basic belief (hope? truth?) that even brutal histories can be turned into better (not perfect, but better) futures if enough individuals fight the good fight.

flutherother's avatar

The ‘problem’ can in part be seen in countries like Afghanistan or cities like Mosul where asserting our ‘goodness’ has resulted in enormous destruction, misery and death.
Oh, and there is Trump. Hardly a shining light.

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