General Question

skfinkel's avatar

I'm concerned about race and the election. Are we really so racist that we can't elect a black president?

Asked by skfinkel (13537points) October 12th, 2008

The choice of good candidates here seems like a no-brainer to me, but the good one is black. Will we not hire him?

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16 Answers

CameraObscura's avatar

He’s ahead in the polls. Are you intentionally race-baiting?

robmandu's avatar

No, we collectively are not. Yes, there’s always some isolated individuals who are, but who don’t make a real difference.

Frickin’ loaded, biased question. No GQ!

stink111's avatar

Theres always going to be racist people no one can stop that.

marissa's avatar

@skfinkel, I mean no offense when I ask this, I am really curious as to your point of view. Do you truly believe that if someone votes for McCain instead of Obama, then they must be racist?

stink111's avatar

I agree with marissa 1oo%

tinyfaery's avatar

I know a guy who thinks he’s liberal and open-minded, but he’s really a racist. He was so gung-ho about Hillary, but now that Obama is the candidate he’s saying horrible things and trying to convice everyone he’s always been for McCain. His reasons are racist. And considering the hate being whipped-up by McCain, I can’t help but thnk racism is affecting the election.

syz's avatar

If Obama loses, there is no way to determine if his loss is due to racism. Never underestimate the ability of others to have differing views from your own – I would’ve bet my right arm that there was no way in hell that Bush would win again. Good thing I’m left handed.

jvgr's avatar

Based on quantitative comparison, I think there are many more reasons to vote for Obama than McCain, but as far as our society believes they have come in equal rights this is going to be a real test for many.

I do think that there will be those who vote against Obama because he is black.

I’m sure that some polling agency has already done polls based on colour, but I don’t think any information will become public before, if ever, the election.

I believe (as tinyfaery describes) the bulk of the anti-black vote will come from those Hillary supporters who have not become Obama supporters. To vote for McCain because Hillary lost would be among the most stupid decisions one could make: Hillary and Obama were pretty much in line and on the same side. However you can’t eliminate sheer stupidity as a possibility.

augustlan's avatar

I think some racists (like tiny’s friend) would swear up and down that they are not. I think they even believe it themselves, and will find ways to support their vote for McCain that have nothing to do with race. Note: I am in no way implying that everyone voting for McCain is a racist. There are valid reasons for some to prefer him. My hope is that this percentage of people will not play a big enough role in the election to cause a loss for Obama.

dalepetrie's avatar

#1, current projections from www.fivethirtyeight.com, the odds are:

Obama 94.1%
McCain 5.9%

I tend to trust their numbers far more than something like IEM or Intrade as those go based on peoples’ gut feelings, and this is based on deep statistical analysis of all available polling data.

Also re the so called “Bradley Effect”, most the people who’ve studied it (and don’t just do a story here and there to drum up newspaper sales) say that if anything, we will see a reverse Bradley Effect this time with whites who live in conservative areas who are not willing to admit in public they’ll vote for Obama. No one has been able to demonstrate the Bradley effect in over a decade, but people will keep bringing it up for, oh….about 22 more days.

SoapChef's avatar

Just thought I would share an excerpt from CBS Sunday Morning show about the Bradley Effect. This guy has just made it his work to research such things, don’t think he was trying to sell it.
@dale You have no idea how much I hope you are right! How dare you look at this as the glass half full! Let me wallow in my pessimism,(for, oh…about 22 more days). Actually, in all seriousness, your reminders are very reasurring, its appreciated.

For 10 years University of Washington social psychologist Anthony Greenwald has been studying “implicit bias,” or unconscious attitudes. They don’t control behavior, but they lurk in all of us.

(CBS)Greenwald teases them out of the mind’s deep recesses with a test (left) measuring rapid responses to flashing images. When it comes to Americans’ attitudes on race, he found a widespread preference for whites.

“We find that 75% or so have this preference for white relative to black,” Greenwald said.

What does that mean for the election?

“When voters are undecided, our test can pick up something that will predict how they will vote,” he said.

David Sears, who studies polls at UCLA, has seen something similar. He calls it racial resentment – the belief of some whites that blacks complain too much, or don’t try hard enough – attitudes they take into the voting booth.

“It turns out to be one of the strongest predictors of preference between Obama and McCain,” Sears said. “I think there’s reason to believe that Obama’s not doing as well as a comparable white Democrat would do.”

Still, Obama is ahead in the polls.

To Californians with long memories, it all sounds familiar. When Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley ran for governor in 1982, it appeared he was certain to become California’s first black chief executive; the last polls had him up 10 points. Yet, he lost.

Joe Trippi was Bradley’s deputy campaign manager.

“It was probably the most crushing defeat I’ve been part of.”

“It gave us the term “the Bradley Effect” – the assumption that when it comes to black candidates, polls (or rather people who talk to pollsters) lie, fearing they’ll be seen as bigots.

When Douglas Wilder ran for governor of Virginia in 1989 he was up 9 points, but squeaked to victory by less than one point.

What about Obama?

“The country has come a hell of a long way,” Trippi said. “I think it’s a mistake to think that there’ll be any kind of big surprise like there was in the Bradley campaign in 1982. But I also think it’d be a mistake to say, ‘It’s all gone.’”

SuperMouse's avatar

I have believed from the jump that there are people out there that, no matter what their opinion of McCain or Obama, will not be able to pull the lever for a person of color. I also believe that there are people out there – men and women – who will not be able to pull the lever for a ticket with a woman as vice president. This is sad but true, though I truly believe folks like these are in the minority. I am just hoping that common sense prevails over racism and we elect the man who is best for the job. IMHO that man is Barack Obama.

@CameraOscura, this is a legitimate question that has been widely covered in the news and on this board recently and bears discussion. I would not consider it race baiting in the least. Whether we like to admit it or not, race relations remain an issue in our country.

GAMBIT's avatar

I think America as a whole has come a long way as far as racism is concerned.

dalepetrie's avatar

I will encourage everyone and anyone to look at www.fivethirtyeight.com, click on the tag for Bradley Effect and read why it’s a non-issue.

As I posted in another question this morning, look where were are as a society in 2008 compared to where we were in 1982, look at how many more blacks there are in popular culture, think about how much more frequently you see interracial couples, and think about most importantly how vocal conservatives have been trained to be these days. It’s a different world, we’re much further removed from desegregation, black power and white flight than we were in 1982. Very few people would have a reason to fear that they have to say Obama when they’re thinking McCain. And indeed if your bias is white = good, black = bad, and you’re undecided, chances are you’re going to say McCain, so if anything, their evidence is actually weakening their own point. Again, it’s been 10 years since anyone’s been able to demonstrate a Bradley effect, and we have TONS of polling data from the primaries. It just DOES NOT EXIST.

Yes, Obama may not have been as far ahead in the polls as a white candidate would have been in the same situation…yes there are some states where racism may play a factor. But it seems that your states where there is the biggest chance of racism, also have your largest black populations, and the fact that African Americans are voting for Obama in a 95/5 ratio instead of the usual 91/9 ratio that they vote for the Democrat, and given that blacks will vote in historically high numbers if for no other reason than to have the chance to vote for the first black President.

And as there will be whites who will not vote for a black, and blacks who vote for Obama who wouldn’t vote otherwise, there will be some people who because of where they live will be afraid to say who they’re voting for (on either side of the coin). But we are not just coming off a period of racial, cultural upheaval and social change which might make us afraid to tell a pollster what we really think.

And my personal bet, from what I’m seeing is that the polls if anything are understating Obama’s support. Far more substantive than any one tiny factor (even the Reverse Bradley Effect which says there are whites in conservative areas who are afraid to say they’re for Obama) is the systematic difficulties in judging the effects of an effective get out the vote strategy.

Another thing 538 has clued me in on is the ground game. You go to any swing state (and the proprietors of this site have travelled to them all), and you’ll see everywhere, red counties, blue counties and swing counties, Obama has McCain just outflanked in the ground game. Pollsters have two models they work with, one is registered voters, and that is a bit better a ways out, but really all that looks at is at a point in time, possibly as far back as the last election, what percentage were of each party, and then it weights the number of respondents by affiliation, so that if a particular state they’re polling is 40% Dem, 40% Republican and 20% Independent, that too is what the sample will look like.

But as we get closer, both parties have been registering new participants, Obama’s been registering FAR more than McCain, so in some cases it may have been 55% Republican, 45% Democrat in 2004, but now it’s 55% Democrat and 45% Republican. So they will use a likely voter model, and try to determine of these people, who is likely to vote. Well, people who always vote are likely, as are people who almost always vote.
They can look at this by age, and party afiliation and what not. And they can say that usually x% of newly registered voters show up the rest don’t. But what they can’t really predict is turnout.

So, the key factor here is that in a couple areas, they are severely undercounting Obama’s support in some states where it may make a material difference. For one thing the youth vote, there are always big reasons to believe they’ll turn out, but they don’t. But most years there’s a high degree of apathy…this year, not only are young people excited by Obama, they have been motivated in record numbers to volunteer for him. No polling model can really estimate how big of a bounce Obama will get from youth turnout. The black vote is the same thing, look at Georgia for example.

Most have Georgia pegged as a deep red state, but recent polling shows John McCain up by only 3 to 7%. But in figuring out a likely voter model, they are looking at the fact that 27% of registered voters in Georgia are black, and they usually make up 25% of the vote because their turnout is lower than that of whites. But registrations have swelled to the point where it’s more like 29% of registered voters in Georgia are black. And, voter turnout is likely to be much higher among this demographic. It’s estimated that you might actually have blacks representing 31–32% of the vote (intead of 25%). And since they vote monolithically in support of Obama (95–5 ratio), right there is enough to overcome a 3 to 7 percent advantage in the polling.

I expect you will see several shockers on election night, and they will by and large favor Obama. Now don’t become complacent, make sure you still do whatever you’ve been doing to support Obama, if not more, if you really want him to win. But no reason to get too nervous at this point, certainly not over whether or not Obama’s race will negatively impact his chances.

dalepetrie's avatar

Today would be a stellar day to go to www.fivethirtyeight.com. They have a new article on why the Bradley Effect never exists, with links to important supporting material. Most stunning, Bradley’s own pollster says that it didn’t exist THEN either, he felt the polls were bad, because their internal polling did not show Bradley up by 9 points or whatever, it showed the candidates in a dead heat.

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