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lloydbird's avatar

Has Peter Joseph (The writer/director/producer of the two 'Zeitgeist' internet movies) been given a 'bad rap' here on fluther?

Asked by lloydbird (8740points) November 1st, 2009

The topic of his two films seems to prompt a lot of derision, if not down right hostility. Yet, in interview, he seems,to me, to make a lot of sense. Has this guy and his work been given something of an unfair hearing?
I wouldn’t say that I agree with or accept everything that he claims in his films, but his intentions seem honourable.

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11 Answers

RareDenver's avatar

I still haven’t seen the second one, I enjoyed the first one but didn’t buy much of part 2 or 3, thinking I might be able to get some good samples out of it though

I think like most conspiracy theorists they start out with a good point and then just take it too far.

troubleinharlem's avatar

have a link for the discussions on here? I’d like to read them – especially the more hostile ones.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

I’ve seen his first one, has more holes in it than a ton of Swiss Cheese. Conspiracy theorists are allowed their views, just like everybody else, but when people watch that crap and assume “it must be real, I saw it on the Internet”, well then I have to wonder just how gullible people really are.

He’s probably a great director, but like M. Night Shyamalan, whose first movie rocked and all subsequent ones sucked, he needs better material, or a new direction.

lloydbird's avatar

@troubleinharlem Sure. If you enter ‘Zeitgeist’ in the Google search bar at the top/right of this fluther page, you’ll find all relevant comments.
Although, the answer from @Psychedelic_Zebra on this thread would make a good case in point. Denigration without substantiation!

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@lloydbird are you trying to insult me?

Jayne's avatar

I agree with @Psychedelic_Zebra on this one. The film may make an effective argument, but unfortunately many if not most of the facts behind that argument are either made-up or distorted.

lloydbird's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra No. I’m not trying to insult you at all. Just looking to point out that your, first answer here, appears to lack any substance (by way of specific examples) to back up your claims. Would you care to elaborate on any of these ”..holes..” that you have identified? I’m quite willing to be persuaded towards your point of view on this, but you do need to back up your claims to, credibly, make your point. Don’t you think?
Alas, it seems that @Jayne is taking the same tack.

Jayne's avatar

Alright, I’ll bite. Let’s take the section on religion as an example:
The zodiac was first used in lower Mesopotamia within the first milllenium B.C., not ten thousand B.C. as implied. Of course, the narrator does not actually say what time period he is talking about, and he doesn’t even mention the names of the “early civilizations” he keeps referencing, which is, you know, kind of important when you start throwing around words like “God’s sun, the light of the world, the savior of humankind”, which these “early civilizations” all supposedly used to refer to the sun. That seems rather unlikely, given that almost all cultures at the time were polytheistic. The same goes for the interpretation of Aquarius as “the water-bearer”, which derives exclusively from Greece mythology but is presented as universal. It removes all credibility from your work when you try to talk about entirely separate civilizations spread across many thousands of miles and many thousands of years, without even saying what time period you are talking about, as if they are interchangeable. It shocks me that anyone could take this seriously.

The description of Horus is a beautiful example of gross over-simplification and cherry picking, by someone with no understanding of cultural evolution. Horus was a recognized figure from well before 3000 B.C. through to Greco-Roman times. Through this time, his mythology changed dramatically, as would be obvious to anyone with half a brain. However, the most common mythology tells that he was born to Isis, the wife of the god Osiris, not to a virgin. I find no mention anywhere of a star in the east, December 25, or 3 kings, the latter being particularly unlikely because, contrary to the narrators apparent opinion, Horus was not at all considered a god made human like Jesus, but a good old-school creation god whose eyes are the sun and moon and who ripped off Set’s testicle and made the desert infertile. Not exactly the baby in the manger being delivered frankincense and myrrh. The thing about being a teacher at twelve and being baptized by Anup is absolute bullshit, for the same reason. He was either a classic no-nonsense God of the does-whatever-he-wants variety, or he was the pharaoh. Not an itinerant preacher.

Trying to counter the claims of the video with contradictory fact is not really possible, however, because Egyptian mythology simply did not work like that, at all. It did not have a nice organized canon administered by the Church; it evolved over thousands of years and contradicted itself constantly. Frankly, the video might be true, because you could say whatever you want, and at some point over the millenia of Egypt’s existence, someone probably believed it.

I do actually have a life, so I will let you do your own research for the rest, or even just read the research of other people who have refuted this video. I realize that what I have written here does not refute the guy’s argument, per se. But if he has this many blatant errors and distortions in the first 3 minutes of this video segment, I think he rather loses the benefit of the doubt, don’t you?

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@Jayne GA, and your willingness to take the time to research and add all of that shows you are quite adept at showing facts to cover your opinions. I am much too lazy for that, and prefer to post my opinion and move on. If that makes me sound shallow, so be it.

I still think @lloydbird was trying to insult my intelligence, though.

lloydbird's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra I could as easily insult your intelligence as I could accidentally stand on and crush a small insect (perhaps a woodlouse or earwig), but that was not my intention. Cease your wondering. And I agree with you with regard to the quality (or at least quantity) of @Jayne‘s answer here. Although, I have, as yet, to fully scrutinise the details of his response.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@lloydbird ug, you use big werds, me feel dumb, you must be god, me kill neighbors, set on fire, make god-like being happy, no use big werds to make P-Z feel dumb anymore.~

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