General Question

ibstubro's avatar

Your view on this Wiki quote: " Christianity and Islam both consider Jesus to have been sent by God. However Christians generally consider Jesus to be the Son of God, while Muslims consider the Trinity a division of God's Oneness and a grave sin (Shirk). Both religions consider themselves monotheistic."?

Asked by ibstubro (18765points) January 15th, 2015

I’m trying to understand why Christians killing Christian/Jews is [now relatively] rare, yet Muslim against Muslim is [recently] rampant.

Is this going to be solved by anyone but the Muslims?

Oh, crap. I stereotyped Christians, then Muslims.

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16 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

What does God’s oneness mean? And, what is the trinity?

The Muslim religion and Christian religion both believe in the same God. Even if you don’t agree with that they both certainly are religions that believe in one God.

I don’t know much about the Muslim religion, but it would not surprise me at all that Jesus had a role in it. I always thought Christians believe Jesus was the son of God.

SavoirFaire's avatar

I’m not entirely sure what the quote has to do with Muslim on Muslim violence. The quote is about similarities between Christianity and Islam, not about doctrinal divisions that divide the different sects of Islam. In any case, the existence of similarities between religions or between sects of a religion—though a great way for those who want to bridge the gap to start a dialogue—in no way guarantee that the remaining differences will not be so severe as to prevent cooperation or coexistence. The divinity of Jesus is a pretty big deal for most Christians, so they might view the similarities as being superficial in light of this difference.

@JLeslie The Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It arises out of the doctrine that Jesus was fully God and fully man (and that he was both God and the Son of God). God’s Oneness, then, refers to the view that God is not divided in this way but is instead a single, unified being.

jaytkay's avatar

@JLeslie Jesus is a prophet in Islam. Like Moses and Abraham. Muhammad is the last prophet.

Regarding the Trinity and Muslims – they probably think about it as often as the Christians think about Muhammad’s relationship to God.

Meaning never.

JLeslie's avatar

So, do they mean by the division of Gods oneness that no human can also be God?

I never really understood equating Jesus with God.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@JLeslie The objection is ultimately that God would need to become a man to do anything. Islam holds that God can do anything, but that He is without need. Jesus, on the other hand, was a man who had human needs—and his whole mission suggests that there is something that God could not do without taking this step of becoming human. (Or at least, so goes the objection. There are, of course, other interpretations of why God would make Himself manifest in Jesus.)

As for equating Jesus with God, it’s hard not to if you want to say that Jesus is divine while not saying there are two deities. That said, the doctrine of the Trinity is one of the most controversial issues within Christian philosophy and theology. And the explanations that have been given to explain how it is possible and why God would be like this are extremely complicated and intellectually sophisticated.

zenvelo's avatar

The differences between sects of Islam are analogous to the differences in sects of Christianity. Remember that it wasn’t long ago that Protestants vilified Catholics; I mean Catholics vilified Protestants, I mean, Catholics and Protestants vilified each other.

And you left out the Jews, the cousins to the Arabs.

The overriding precept of Christianity is that Jesus is God Incarnate. Islamists view that as an anathema belief; they hold that God would never be incarnate

shehabzooz's avatar

Islam sees Jesus the actual look that mind and intellect agree to, he is God’s servant, he can be alive and dies, he can be healthy and ill, he can be weak and strong, i.e. he has all things that happen to man at different stages of his life. But God chose him and purified him and gave him prophecy and mission, God says:
“He (Jesus) said: I am indeed a servant of God, He has given me revelation and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I be, and has enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I am alive. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again).” Surat Mariam, Verses 30, 31, 32, 33.
It was narrated that Ja’far Ibn-Abi-Taleb when he emigrated to Ethiopia with some Muslims, the people of Mecca sent Amr Ibn-Al’Aas with a delegation and gifts to the king of Ethiopia to get them Ja’far and the other Muslims back. They told the king that those Muslims say bad things about Jesus; the king called Ja’far and the other Muslims with him and called his bishops and rabbis, then he asked Ja’far what they say about Jesus the son of Mary, Ja’far recited those verses we mentioned from Surat Mariam, the king and the monks wept and the king said: By God, this (Koran) and what Jesus got come from the same source. He scolded Amr and the people with him and he announced his protection for Ja’far and the other Muslims in his kingdom.

JLeslie's avatar

My personal opinion is God is God, but I am not Christian. Christians say Jesus is the son of God, so to me that means he is not God. It doesn’t really matter what I think though.

If Muslims see the Christian belief as a division of God’s oneness, what’s wrong with that? That’s their belief system.

Why did God need Mary, but he didn’t need a mother for Adam and Eve?

I don’t think of Islam as being a cousin to the Jews. I just think of them all as being Abrahamic religions and the Jews were first. I guess Christians feel like Jesus improved on things.

sinscriven's avatar

Muslims hold God to be a being of absolute purity and perfection.So to suggest that such an absolute perfect and omnipotent power of God would ever debase himself to assume the imperfect, broken, and corrupted form of a human being would be pretty blasphemous.

But I think the divisions are more political in nature than spiritual. Even the schism between the Sunni and Shia were for political reasons and all about succession.

Strauss's avatar

As stated above,The Muslim and Christian views of God have some similarities. Christians believe in one eternal God Who created the universe, and Muslims apply these attributes to Allah. Both view God as all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present.The difference is in the development of the theologies. Traditional Christian theology contains the doctrine of the Trinity, and the Incarnation; whereas Allah is absolutely different from the creations in the Self, Attributes, and Actions.

Traditional Christianity: God is seen as having three separate and distinct Persons, in one God. It is all put out in the Nicene Creed.

Belief is professed in…” One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible,” and then “one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father…through him all things were made.” Also, ”....in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

As I posted here, ”...the Original Sin of Adam and Eve was so grievous it required a deity to atone. Since Christians believe there is only One God, it would be required that He Incarnate as human to experience pain, suffering and death”

Allah in Islam: Islam’s most fundamental concept is a strict monotheism called tawḥīd. ” God is described in the Qur’an as: “Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.” (Qur’an 112:1–4)

ibstubro's avatar

@JLeslie the Trinity is the Christian concept of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. All three are considered the actual embodiment of God. Even after 16 years of (admittedly primitive) Christian training, I have no concept of “The Holy Ghost/Spirit.”
I believe Muslims believe both Jesus and Mohammad to be Prophets, or humans chosen by God to speak on His behalf. Muslims seem to find it blasphemous that God should or would appear as anything other than The One.

Yes, @SavoirFaire, I forgot to add that there were [Details] integral to the question.

Exactly, @zenvelo. Given that Christians have, for the most part, given up on physical violence, isn’t the resolution of Muslim violence going to have to come within the Muslim community?
In a way, another way of looking at the “Is it wrong to as a Muslim to denounce acts of terrorism?”

Thanks, @shehabzooz. Obviously a Muslim perspective and we celebrate that.

Great answer, @sinscriven! Now, what role do you think non-Muslims can take in ending Muslim violence and/or terrorism?

I wish I had gotten my response in before yours @Yetanotheruser , but I had food on the stove. You might have weighed in on The Holy Spirit/Ghost and the role non-Muslims can play. GA anyway.

LeilaniLane's avatar

I’d say Christians killing Christians/Jew is rare because of one important thing. Exodus 20:13. Also, Jews are told to be Gods chosen people, so murdering them wouldn’t be advisable.

@sinscriven Many people thought Jesus was blasphemous. But, God prepared a line for Him to go through. When reading the Old Testament you can see how He choose certain people. He did need to chose someone pure. But that doesn’t make her a saint or perfect. She was obedient though. I think its the most important thing about Christianity. That Jesus assumed the imperfect and broken from of a human. But humans weren’t always corrupt. Adam and Eve were at one point how God wanted them to be. They were good in His sight.

@JLeslie, @SavoirFaire Another way I’ve heard it put: God (the Father) is God above us, Jesus is God with us, and the Holy Spirit is God in us. Its not something we can fully comprehend, but God wouldn’t be much of a God if we could understand Him. It makes Him all the more amazing.

SavoirFaire: Its not that God needed to become man. He chose to be with us. To understand temptation. But, yet He never fell into temptation because He’s the spotless lamb. He could have just killed us all and started over again. He can do anything because He’s God. But, He wanted to be with us, and He wants us to be with Him and to understand Him.

I don’t think anybody can truly understand how the Trinity works. The beautiful thing that we don’t need to. Because, lets face it, we’re not going to be able to understand it all. Its out of our mind, out of our grasp to know how it all works.

JLeslie: I think what you think is important. After all, your important to God just as I am. God didn’t need Mary, He had a plan and chose to use her. Also, God decided to make Adam and Eve first. He didn’t have to make Eve from Adam but, He saw that it was good.

Just my opinions and thoughts. :3o

ibstubro's avatar

Yet, Christians not killing Christians/Jews is a recent thing, @LeilaniLane. At least as recent as WWII.

Surely there is something similar to “Thou shalt not kill.” somewhere in Muslim teachings.

“God (the Father) is God above us, Jesus is God with us, and the Holy Spirit is God in us.” is good…exactly what I remember, now that you repeat it.

LeilaniLane's avatar

True. I’d like to think that Christians have been improving as a whole….but, some current issues that I’ve seen declare otherwise.

I bet there is… I just don’t know. I’ve actually thought about studying the Koran along side the Bible. It’d be interesting to compare and contrast them.

Yeah. I always liked that explanation of the Trinity. Sweet and simple.

Jaxk's avatar

Makes me wonder why the hell he doesn’t just send us another Prophet to sort all this out. If god or Allah is all powerful and all knowing it seems like he could find a way to be a bit more clear, a bit easier to understand. Does he want us to kill each other or make peace? that doesn’t seem so tough to say.

LeilaniLane's avatar

@Jaxk there are people who are like prophets. They could even be considered prophets. For example John Paul Jackson. Also, there are some people on Its Supernatural that have prophetic gifts. Some of my mother’s friends have the gift of prophecy, and they’ve received visions from God.

I don’t think God would ever want war, but there’s a time and purpose for everything. Including war.

But, I’m not gonna lie. Sometimes I feel like God is impossible to reach or understand. And it bothers me. I’ll be staring up at the ceiling at night thinking about it. Wishing that He’d do something miraculous for me, that He’d send someone to talk to me or something. But, I know He’s working on something. I just can see it yet. After all, He’s always been and He created time, so I guess a little patience doesn’t hurt, lol.

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