Being that it is Easter. Don't Christians ask a little too much?

I think you may have it backwards. Belief in Jesus as son of god/god Himself precedes concerns about the story of Jesus being a good guy or the teachings of empathy and compassion. Asking a Christian to drop the metaphysics and replace it with a purely-historical interpretation of a guy who may have been a role model is likely to appeal to almost nobody.

While admittedly confirming my own understanding and experience, I just came across a study that actually looks at the connection between Buddhist concepts and empathy (there is a positive correlation – not really surprising). The same affect does not apply to Christian concepts.

I’m unconvinced that you can completely secularize Christianity and it would result in significant increases in empathy and compassion. The belief in the supernatural story – and the related concepts of an afterlife – appear to be the motivating factor in the belief in the Christian story. Drop that, and the story becomes significantly-less interesting. And there just isn’t enough useful material in there to provide a source of moral and pro-social attitudes.

But I could be wrong.

@hominid
So Christians must believe in something fantastic. Which means there is no surprise that Christians are more or less on the defensive on Earth, except maybe Central and South Americal.

Are there people who call themselves Christians, but simply cannot accept the notion of re animation after death?

I know Unitarians who are Christians. They aren’t superstitious but they strive to follow the teachings of Christ.

According to the Bible, Lazarus and two others died and came back to life. I can’t remember who they are right now. The difference is that Jesus did not die again, but Lazarus and the other two died again.

According to many christian teachings, you have to believe Jesus died and rose again or you won’t go to heaven.

Yes, it’s a huge leap of faith to believe the teachings in the Bible.

If you are not one of those people you say call themselves Christian but cannot accept a living Christ who rule on the throne, then it is not too much to ask. If Christ never conquered death His death would have been as useless as Buddha’s

Easter is for those who say they are but don’t believe it as you say. Those of us who really believe this is Resurrection Sunday

If Christ never conquered death His death would have been as useless as Buddha’s

And their lives?

@Hypocrisy_Central
The Buddha would not have bothered to worry whether or not his life might have been retrospectively regarded as useful or useless. What is your point?

The Buddha did not require a “useful” death, as he spent several decades in life being useful.

(That said, as a Buddhist, I have my doubts as to whether or not the Buddha, or even Siddharta Guatama, actually existed as a historical person and not just a figure of folklore. It matters not ether way. Buddhist teachings do not hinge on the person of the Buddha himself.)

@josie I could ask that on what is the point to comparing a created being to one who created him? In answer you your last comment question, the point is Buddha’s death will save no one. He died and is still dead, he cannot be life to anyone.

Actually, to be a Christian, you only need to be a follower of his (Jesus Christ) teachings, nothing else.

^ OK, if that is what you believe, go for it, those you tell that redacted might be a bit pissed when they find heaven is not on their eternity list.

@kritiper
You are making it up to suit your tastes.
If you do not believe in the resurrection, you could be all sorts of Axial Age fans, but not a Christian. The resurrection is what defines Chritianity. Otherwise, you have nothing at stake regarding your Faith.
What you are describing is Christianity on the cheap. A contract with no signature. Keeping your options open. Etc.

But say what you will

The resurrection is what defines Christianity

That’s one definition.

@jaytkay
This is sort of incredible
What is another defining principle of Christianity?
Without the resurrection you are nothing more than an Admirer of Jesus.
Shit, I am an an Admirer of Jesus, but I am no Christian.
Dream on my friend

@josie No I’m not making it up to suit my own tastes. Check the definition in your handy dictionary, if you have one. I have 2 from 2 different publishers and they both say the same thing.

@Hypocrisy_Central Be my guest to check the definition in your dictionary as well. No mention of the resurrection ANYWHERE!

Without the resurrection you are nothing more than an Admirer of Jesus.

You can be a follower of Jesus.

Anything short of adherence to Roman Catholic doctrine is made up to suit someone’s taste, and yes, it is a lot to ask, but there are plenty in this world who believe that salvation is to be found in something external to themselves. I don’t think it really matters what form that takes (external salvation, that is), given that it’s looking in the “wrong” place.

Roman Catholic doctrine itself is made up to suit someone’s tastes. There were many branches of Christianity before the Roman Catholic church gained temporal power and snuffed out the competition.

Your problem is obvious. You ask questions about the Christian religion. You don’t ask you believe. If you can’t believe then you leave.

If you don’t believe and try to make sense of any religion, you will just make everyone crazy including yourself.

@kritiper Be my guest to check the definition in your dictionary as well. No mention of the resurrection ANYWHERE!
I am sure the definition you seen say just that or similar. Check a Bible dictionary and see if it lines up. Better yet, why don’t you ask on of these neutral or non-supportive people who reference the Bible with quotes or passages on what the Bible say a Christian is and what they are to do; that holds more authority to me than a secular dictionary that has no real vested interest to know what a true believer does.

As far as the resurrection being everywhere, in what way are you speaking?

To understand this, it helps to consider why one should be kind and compassionate in these different religious schemes.

From a Christian point of view, neighborly love is a “commandment”, a requirement from God. It isn’t presented as an end in itself, but as a way of ensuring God’s favor and the consequent rewards. Those rewards are largely postmortem (at least as they’ve been interpreted in mainstream Christianity) since being such a person in this life brings persecution upon you (Matthew 5:10–12). This makes the great payout for being a kind and compassionate person contingent on faith in a resurrection. If Jesus, who is supposed to have exemplified the “good” life, wasn’t resurrected to a heavenly life, then what hope could there be for anyone else? Toss out Jesus’ resurrection, and you toss out the reason to be kind and compassionate.

Some schools of Buddhism are similar, in that moral behavior is seen as a way of building merit in order to improve one’s prospects for a favorable rebirth. A key difference is that this isn’t a scheme officiated by a divine being; it acts more like an impersonal natural law. Here too, if you toss out the notion of rebirth, the scheme falters.

In other lines of Buddhism (and in some “mystical” branches of Christianity, Islam and Judaism), to be compassionate or loving is to already have release from suffering. In whatever measure one is focused on the welfare of others and contributes to easing suffering, then one is that much removed from the cause of one’s own suffering, namely self-concern. Compassion/love, then, isn’t an investment toward a postmortem payoff. It is heaven, so to speak.

There are “Christian” churches that do not believe in the resurrection or the virgin birth. We refer to them as misguided.
Your characterization of Jesus in the OP is similarly misinformed.

There are “Christian” churches

They are Christian churches. No scare quotes.

There is no arbiter of Christianity. Though many people believe themselves to be.

Hmm. It seems more likely to me that the Christians focusing on Biblical literalism, including the literal resurrection of Jesus, are the misguided ones. I expect if Jesus were available to comment, he’d agree. I think he’d agree that fixating on the importance of believing in his literal resurrection was totally missing the point, even if it had been literally true.

The resurrection is a metaphorical spiritual message and that is the important part to understand. As in, important spiritually, and for getting the point of what Jesus had to say, if not for fitting in with Christian communities or religious orders.

The resurrection story was metaphorical when it was taken adopted from earlier religions. That is, not only is the essence of it not literal, it isn’t an original Christian invention. It’s a borrowing and a masculinizing monotheizing of the resurrection story used in earlier religions. Easter, along with its rabbits and decorated eggs and god resurrection metaphor story, fasting and feasting around the Spring equinox, is a tradition that goes back to Babylon, over 2000 years BC, being named after the goddess Ishtar / Astarte (Easter) who fell from the sky into the Euphrates river in a great big beautiful egg, also a symbol of rebirth.

By the way, to the Babylonians, Ishtar was a goddess of war and sexual love…

No doubt the tradition goes back even further than that. Most religions have a resurrection story, which is usually about the cycle of death and rebirth in the natural world, which goes on forever… well, until Christianity makes it be about dead-ending in heaven or hell or apocalypse – thanks, Christians… ;-P .

Given that it’s not even an original story, I think the Christians who claim that the main point starts with fixating on belief in the literal truth of Jesus’ resurrection, are misguided on many levels.

@Hypocrisy_Central Checking a Bible dictionary would be just what @josie claimed I had done: to make it up (or find a religious source to back it up) “to suit my taste.” In this case, your case. I think a standard collegiate dictionary should suffice quite nicely, definition wise, for the most respected and most widely accepted definition. And no mention of the resurrection is made in either of the 2 standard dictionaries I have as a defining Christian prerequisite or quality.

@Zaku I expect if Jesus were available to comment, he’d agree.
I think you need to read more of the Bible. Count how many times Christ Himself has said that is what salvation hinges on.

Count how many times Christ Himself has said that is what salvation hinges on.

How many? Or at least give a couple of examples.

I agree with those who have said that the resurrection of Christ is the entire point of Christianity. Yes, I think that’s “too much”, which is why I don’t believe it.

^^ (Examples you won’t believe anyhow, but…..)

John 5:28–30
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

John 2:18–22
18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them;[a] and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

John 10:17
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

(Again, not that you would believe it, but some people need to go back and study their Bible if they want to use it as a weapon, it is a sharp tow-edged sword and if one tries to stick someone they may cut their own head off when they it back)

In all my years being raised with and relating to my very religious, very Catholic, mother, I had only heard talk about the resurrection during Easter. It wasn’t a/the main focal point, only a side note, really. A point to prove he was the son of God.
And when I say my mother was very religious, very catholic, I’m not kidding! Her parents were also very much of the faith, very Irish, very church going people. Mom was schooled in an all-girl catholic school with sisters of the Sacred Heart, the sacred heart, in some circles, being called a cult! And why my mother didn’t just go ahead and become a nun is beyond my ability to reason.
If the resurrection was the main focal point of Catholics, I’m certain I would have heard about it! The only time I have heard of it being this main point of being a Christian, was brought up here, at this time, at this site, with this discussion. It may be a focal point of other Christians, with their specific churches, but obviously not a focal point of ALL Christian denominations.

<——Baptist. It has always been a stipulation to going to heaven In my faith.

@kritiper Honestly, the Catholics seem to have set up the one Christian religion that is farthest from Christ’s teachings as other sects interpret them. They are possibly the most “pagan” sect in Christianity. I would not set it as a Christian standard.

Christ’s words in the bible are extremely clear about this. A person can’t get into heaven through good works alone. The only ticket is believing in him.

Which is one more reason I’m not a Christian.

@dappled_leaves – Yep. I was raised New England Catholic. We were actually discouraged from reading the bible. I didn’t read it until I had left it completely.

@dappled_leaves Catholics believe in him. But @josie originally said ALL Christians are Christians because they believe that Christ was resurrected, and that that single thing was the main reason for being Christian. So I’m not saying that Catholics don’t believe in him, because they do. What I said and still maintain, is that Christians are Christians because they follow the teachings of Christ, as it says in any standard English dictionary, under “Christian, noun,” and no mention of any resurrection is mentioned in same said dictionary as the main gist of being identified as a Christian.
You may not be Christian as you see yourself, but you can be a “decent, civilized, or presentable person”* and still be seen and considered to be a Christian by your treatment of others.
*Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary

@kritiper Sorry if I was not clear. By “believe in him”, I meant “believe that Jesus is the son of god and our saviour”. That is the basic criterion for Christian faith. This does not mean that it’s the only reason that people choose to become Christians. People do that for a wide variety of reasons.

You keep citing dictionaries for your version of Christianity – this is not helping your case. At best, it specifies that it is a faith, and gives one lowest-common-denominator criterion that differentiates this faith from other faiths. A dictionary is obviously not the place to look if you want to actually understand the tenets of any faith.

“You may not be Christian as you see yourself, but you can be a “decent, civilized, or presentable person”* and still be seen and considered to be a Christian by your treatment of others.”

This is absolutely not true. You may choose to brand me a Christian because I’m a nice person, or you may choose to brand me a telephone because I can make noise and communicate with others. These few criteria are not sufficient to define me as either one. Which I’m sure will be a relief to every decent, civilized, and presentable atheist I know.

Find any biblical passage that supports your rather unique view, and we can start to discuss it.

@dappled_leaves Sorry, I cannot and will not cite any biblical passages because they are obviously religiously biased, and because there are so many different Bibles in use. I could cite one and you might find another that would discount it.

“Christian…n…1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. b(1) disciple 2…” -from Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary 11th. ed. (2011)

“Christian…adj. 1.Professing, or belonging to, Christianity. 2. Of or pertaining to Christ or the religion based on Christ’s teachings. ...-n. 1. One who believes, or professes or is assumed to believe, in Jesus Christ, and the truth as taught by him. 2. ... b Colloq. A decent , civilized, or presentable person. ... ” -from Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary 1961 ed.

“Christian… Of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or his teachings; believing in or belonging to the religion of Jesus Christ; of or pertaining to Christianity or Christians; also, exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christ like; also, human, or not brutal (colloq.); decent or respectable (colloq.). ” -from The New Century Dictionary, copyright, 1944, by D. Appleton-Century company.

These dictionaries and their definitions are universally recognized as acceptable and accurate, and the publishers most respectable and reliable as well.
So, as you can plainly see, my “rather unique view” is not so unique.

@Hypocrisy_Central And I think you don’t understand what Jesus was talking about. Jesus’ sacrifice, ordeal and resurrection are a metaphor for what you’re supposed to do with your worldly attachments, and how your soul can survive and find peace. His story exemplifies that, metaphorically. If you think it means you need to fixate on one actual historical supernatural resurrection event and your belief that that occurred, you’ve missed the point.

There are no Bible passages that define what a Christian is.

For a clear, concise definition of each religion (each religion that is Christian) just Google it (for example, “Presbyterian,” “Congregationalist,” “Baptist,” “Methodist”) and each one’s specific beliefs will be clear. I googled Presbyterian because that’s what I am. Different sites have different amounts of detail. I was looking for belief that Christ died and was resurrected but I didn’t find it on the one or two sites I looked at.

Jesus death was suppose to represent him taking upon himself our sins and ensuring the salvation of those who believed in him and follow his teachings. Coming back to life and going to heaven is the promise that we will live once again and have eternal life with Our Heavenly Father in heaven. Essentially he opened the gates of Heaven.

^ At lest someone knows the basic concept, thank the Lord

^lol. Yes thank him.