General Question

allengreen's avatar

Why are American Women soo much larger than Women from other countries?

Asked by allengreen (1618points) July 24th, 2008

Recently came back from a world trip and am in shock at the largeness of American women of all ages—Many European and Asians and Latin Americans are wealthy but not so huge? Why?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

153 Answers

kevbo's avatar

We don’t walk as a matter of habit due to sprawl, and, in general, our “national menu” of food choices has too many calories per serving.

Harp's avatar

Just women?!

allengreen's avatar

especially women—

flyawayxxballoon's avatar

Why? Because junk foods are so cheap and constantly advertised and easily obtainable in large quantities. Because McDonalds and other fast food restaurants don’t tell people what the nutrition facts of their foods are. Because parents don’t teach their kids to eat a healthy, balanced diet. Because people don’t pay attention to the “per serving” part, and only notice the “45 calories” and then eat the whole bag without bothering to notice “Servings per bag: 34. Serving size: 6 crackers.” Because the FDA doesn’t care about the fattiness of all the food that we eat anymore. Because everyone’s too lazy to get up off their butts and exercise once in a while.

marinelife's avatar

Why does this feel incredibly sexist?

Exhibit A
Exhibit B
Exhibit C

flyawayxxballoon's avatar

Men are too, but women more so. I agree with that statement, even though I’m a girl.

flameboi's avatar

american women are beautiful, inside and outside, :)

PupnTaco's avatar

It’s not just women, obesity is rampant across the board in America.

Why? High-fructose corn syrup, sedentary lifestyles, high-calorie meals, you name it. Seems kinda obvious to me.

allengreen's avatar

“incredibly sexist”, sorry, I forgot that the thought police were out today.

wildflower's avatar

Admittedly my view of Americans may me a tad skewed since most of the ones I’ve met were Texans, flying a desk in an IT company, but I don’t think it’s the “women more so”. In fact I think the opposite. I haven’t met many small men from the US, but a good few women.

Regardless, I completely agree with kevbo, everyday habits seem to me very different and this is most likely the reason for the difference in average sizes.

At work we have a recurring dread; any time the company decides to give us t-shirts, we get American sized collection and only very, very few will be lucky enough to get a size that fits…..the rest of us get a nice mini dress or sleeper tee :)

Triozoo's avatar

Women gain weight easily but is considered ‘hard’ to lose once gotten compared to men; of course I agree with flyawayxxballoon with her ealier reply on the fast-food industries. The cheaper of product draws in consumers, simple as that. Although Allengreen is comparing ethnic groups aswell as weight, asians and some others tend to genetically have a smaller waist size. Their “overweight” spand would be the standerd American+

gailcalled's avatar

That question needs to be qualified; “Why are some American etc.” Fluther does not have “thought police” but it is an “equal-opportunity” site.

marinelife's avatar

@allengreen If you make an extremely prejudiced and inaccurate statement, expect it to be challenged. Not thought police, just thinking people.

dragonflyfaith's avatar

Ok what’s with all the questions relating to the weight of women lately? I’m beginning to find it to be a bit much. This is like the third one in the past two days. Enough.

jcs007's avatar

I believe fat has something to do with the obese American public (not just women).

dragonflyfaith's avatar

Actually isn’t the real question “Why are American’s so preoccupied with women’s weight?” I think women in America have a difficult time with their weight because others are so judgmental about how much or how little other people weigh. Unless you’re the person’s doctor, mind your own business.

poofandmook's avatar

You know why? Because we’re freaking happy. Life is too damned short. If you’re overweight but healthy, what do you care? Don’t look. Damned if we don’t have some shallow-ass people in this place today.

tinyfaery's avatar

If women are fatter now, explain this.
Hips, ass, bellies, and tits are what make a woman different from a man. Deal with it!

dragonflyfaith's avatar

@tinyfaery Exactly, shall we bring up Greek goddesses?

kevbo's avatar

A. Since when did a question become a statement?

B. If there’s some science and/or anthropology that speaks to the validity of this question (as indicated by Triozoo and tinyfaery), how is it prejudiced and inaccurate?

allengreen's avatar

“overweight but healthy”—an oxymoron?
” what do you care? Don’t look..” being weigh leads to health problems and higher medical cost for all of us, like cirgarettes.

“I think women in America have a difficult time with their weight because others are so judgmental”—-So I am the reason for all the large girls? If I were not judgmental, they would be fit and healthy.

“Damned if we don’t have some shallow-ass people”—Actually, large a$$ people is what I was talking about. Sorry you took offense.

dragonflyfaith's avatar

Judgmental people are a big reason why so many people have eating disorders. Call someone fat and they’re going to either eat more because of the depression or starve themselves.

Do we even need to bring up the fact that not everyone is over weight because of what they eat? There are so many medical conditions that cause weight problems. You can’t just look at a person and decide why they weigh what they weigh.

This last message has been the most offensive thing you’ve said…”large a$$ people.”

gailcalled's avatar

Well, we could start nit-picking at your use of language, but I don’t think that that would accomplish anything.. More flies with honey, remember?

kevbo's avatar

Unless we’re talking about grammar and spelling, of course. Some things have to remain sacred.

;-)

gailcalled's avatar

@Kev; definately, defiantly, defentively, and of course, “being weigh leads to health problems.”

kevbo's avatar

Now you’re talking constructive criticism! LOL!

kevbo's avatar

Okay, now I need a cirgarette.

poofandmook's avatar

well frankly I’d rather be overweight than an idiot like yourself, allengreen. So I guess we’re both happy.

kevbo's avatar

Idiot. Pig. Any other epithets we should expect?

gailcalled's avatar

@Andrew: sorry.G

@Allen; you said that one of your areas of interest was psychology. Perhaps you might want to apply some to your self-introduction to a new group of people.

andrew's avatar

Going back to the question, I think other countries have even stronger cultural pressures than the US for women to be skinny—for better or for worse.

Take Brazil: (the following statements are based on my trip to brazil and living for 3 years with a brazilian). Even disregarding the fact that Brazil has the largest number of plastic surgeries, my Brazilian female friends wouldn’t touch sugar if their lives depended on it, in fact, it’s where I found out about liquified artificial sweeteners (for your cold beverages). It was not a rare occurance for an overweight, balding man to accompany a young, skinny woman to dinner or a club. Even to my tourist’s eye, I could tell there were different standards in play.

The question has validity, though. See French Women Don’t get Fat.

Easy on the name calling folks, and remember to at least keep your derails in whispers.

poofandmook's avatar

Since I’m not the only one who has pointed these things out, kevbo, why are you singling me out?

kevbo's avatar

Actually, I’m not singling you out. See my response above to Marina’s assertions.

I think the better question to ask is why you are feeling singled out.

eeyore200343's avatar

a real woman has a belly a good bum and nice strong thighs americans are beautiful. xxxxx

allengreen's avatar

This last message has been the most offensive thing you’ve said…”large a$$ people.”

I was offended by the “shallow ass people” comment.

Sorry for the typo’s., and sorry for the offense some have taken.

When one travels it is striking to notice the size difference in the people here in the USA, and since I am a hetro male, maybe I just don’t notice big men since I am not looking.

When I see a potentially georgeous big girl, it makes me sad that there is one less potential partner in the dating pool.

If 6 of 10 American girls are extra large, it makes the competition for the 4 of 10, more difficult. The result is very average women thinking they are 10’s, just because they are normal size, and by normal I mean, the medical definintion of healthy….sorry in advance for the typos and misspellings ect…...pls do not kill the messanger.

tinyfaery's avatar

US media sends mixed messages all the time—be skinny, but eat Doritos, look young, but be tan, etc. Read. A witty and edifying book about American media and consumerism.

dragonflyfaith's avatar

So a woman cannot be big and “georgeous” at the same time?

I give up, this question has turned into nothing but insulting each other and is going nowhere.

poofandmook's avatar

@kevbo: forgive me but there is a whole lot of ignorance going on in here today; things are being said not in the spirit of learning new things or getting answers, but in the spirit of hurting others and stirring-the-shit, so to speak. The way people are speaking about women today is sickening and shallow, and I’m not going to sit back quietly and watch it happen.

gailcalled's avatar

When I was 17 and living with a French family in Burgundy and hanging out with French teen-agers, I was skinny as a willow wand. But I towered over the young men and felt that I could bench-press most of them.

allengreen's avatar

may i mention that I love women, poofandmook, i do. and the intention was to have a lively debate, and I am sorry you are offended…sincerely

i have a really big nose, if it makes you feel better…..

kevbo's avatar

@dragonfly, let’s assume that men are also “victims” of mass media messaging. We’re told who the hottest women are in our Maxims, Playboys, etc. It’s not surprising, then that some men would unequivocally regard overweight women as unattractive. Speaking for myself, I dated at both ends of the spectrum, but never fully appreciated plus-sized women until my late 20s when I dated a larger girl who hung around a bunch of larger friends. From that point on, I understood how “big is beautiful.”

So, I agree with you that a woman can be big and gorgeous, and it’s unfortunate, I suppose that other men aren’t so enlightened. Even so, I would say the phenomenon is more media driven than people driven.

@poof, we all have our standards and the “right” to enforce them. The kneejerking that I sometimes see doesn’t pass for discourse in my book.

allengreen's avatar

Next trip: Brazil…..

tinyfaery's avatar

@allen Now you made me laugh, so I can’t hate you. I Love Fluther!
Wait! I changed my mind again. I love Fluther!!

Knotmyday's avatar

The unfortunate answer is: Poor eating habits and lack of exercise.

But I agree with Marina, there are just as many overweight men, possibly more. Let’s not disregard the forest just because a few trees got in the way.

Personal note: More women than men seem to be living healthy around here; I am usually the token male at my gym. Stinkin’ up the joint.

allengreen's avatar

OK——I really opened pandora’s box, no pun intended…..

Here is the answer to my own, poorly crafted, insensitive, politically incorrect, sexist (some say), question:

http://stockholm.usembassy.gov/Agriculture/hormone.html

http://www.organicconsumers.org/Toxic/hormoncancer.cfm

nikipedia's avatar

Hi, I’m here with the data. From a meta-analysis published in 2007 about the obesity epidemic in the United States:

“More men than women were overweight or obese (68.8 percent vs. 61.6 percent in 2001–2002).”
http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/29/1/6.pdf

@allengreen: Your initial question is both offensive and inaccurate.

And for the record, moderators, I can’t believe you would take down a perfectly valid post about the philosophy of science and call it “offensive” and leave this post up.

kevbo's avatar

I’m sorry. Is Pandora fat or not fat? It’s kind of an important detail given the discussion.

flameboi's avatar

here you can see a lil’ bit of what I’m mean with a beautiful full figured lady, try to google Fernando Botero’s art :)

flameboi's avatar

I just don’t understand what’s the deal with weight lately

nikipedia's avatar

As far as your initial question goes:

“The obesity epidemic is not restricted to industrialized societies; this increase is often faster in developing countries than in the developed world,” according to the World Health Organization, which has a nice summary of the obesity epidemic here:

http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/publications/facts/obesity/en/

delirium's avatar

There’s a big difference between sitting back and saying “Anyone who doesn’t look like this is fat, no matter what. What slobs.” And recognizing that there is an issue with the method of thought about food. Don’t judge by weight, though, people. Seriously. Don’t assume that just because a girl has a little bit of smooshyness that she’s slobbish. If you have an ollld american heritage, and those are your dominant genetics, you probably have a very slow metabolism. Your family would have died through initial pilgramage-winters here. We have a significantly more stagnant lifestyle now, yes, and we are all doing less manual labor… There is, however, a difference between being obese and having a figure for bearing kids and living through winter.

I’m not a stick. I dress Very Very well for my weight. I am always extremely careful about it, but I spent around four years refusing to eat in public because I would be judged for being a fat person who is stuffing her face. I seriously went on a class trip when I was in highschool and subsisted on nothing but apples. This was a whole week. No food. I was too horrified at the notion of seeming disgusting because I had to actually consume something.

There is an obesity problem in america, but don’t automatically assume any girl with a little bit of plush is stuffing her face with sugar, chips, and fast food. This girl, who has curves and is learning to respect them and would be more suited for the perception of beauty in the renaissance, hasn’t had fast food or meat in over seven years. I eat better than anyone i’ve ever met. But I’m not a stick. I won’t be a stick no matter what I do.

Just keep in mind that there’s a difference between a girl with curves and someone who is truly obese (which means that its a dangerous amount of weight).

There are girls out there who have an hourglass figure but happen to just have a slightly larger hourglass. There’s nothing hanging out anywhere, but we still get a lot of the flack.
Don’t judge them as being irresponsible, or stupid, just because the true goal of perfection might be unattainable for them.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/Delightedly/curves.jpg?t=1216934838

Don’t take on a ‘holier than thou” attitude just because some of us look like the above and not Julia Roberts.

I got lucky because I found a man who thinks i’m the most beautiful girl in the world and relishes in my breasts and my hips and the curves they make. A lot of girls, sadly, don’t get that lucky.

kevbo's avatar

@niki, are you serious? How does your info prove the inaccuracy of asking about American women vs. Non-American women?

What’s offensive is that someone can’t ask a simple question based on their perception. Sure they may be wrong, misguided or otherwise ignorant in their line of thinking but let the information prove them wrong. Ridiculous.

marinelife's avatar

@kevbo I don’t see any data in this thread from anyone that shows American women are any fatter than American men. That is what I meant by prejudiced. Having a double standard on the subject is prejudicial, a double standard.

kevbo's avatar

So, it’s more okay to be nationalist or racist on this topic so long as men and women are included?

nikipedia's avatar

@kevbo: Okay, thanks for catching me. The way this question was asked was offensive. I think the intention behind the question was malicious. The follow-up statement “especially women” (in response to Harp’s “only women?”) was inaccurate.

I don’t see anyone being nationalist or racist. Maybe I skimmed the thread too quickly.

kevbo's avatar

American v. Non-American indicates slicing the data along national and maybe racial lines if you factor in that other countries are more homogenous than the US.

allengreen's avatar

I have been educated today…Here is what I learned—

Big can be hot, and can be sexy. (a few folks here that have sent me links to photos, and I must admit, I’m a bit turned on. (Can we make up now :)

shilolo's avatar

Let me actually interject some real data to this discussion. According to the CDC’s National Health and Nutrition survey, 62% of American women are overweight, while 67% of American men are overweight. In order to see the data for yourselves (go to Table 69), you need a PDF viewer.
In summary, I trust the CDC more than I trust allengreen’s purely un-scientific analysis.

delirium's avatar

And you agree that there’s a difference between not being a stick and being obese?

tis a passionate issue for almost everyone. Its hard to not have an opinion. We still all lurve you.

allengreen's avatar

@shilolo: Many European and Asians and Latin Americans are wealthy but not so huge? Why?

you missed the point

allengreen's avatar

@delirum: I agree, curvey = sexy….

wildflower's avatar

Habits such as driving instead of walking and eating mostly processed food isn’t necessarily a sign of wealth.

I’ve entertained US colleagues who found the walk from the pub to the cab office challenging – regardless of their size.
And I still haven’t gotten over the steak sizes I saw in TX. The kiddies menu was same as standard size here in Ireland.

shilolo's avatar

How did I miss the point? Your “question”, if I can call it that, asked, “Why are American women so much fatter…?”. For example, in response to Harp’s question “Only women?”, you replied “Especially women.”

If you had asked the question about “Why are all Americans so much fatter than the rest of the world?” there wouldn’t be this much “confusion”. You obviously intended your question as a slam at women, and I wanted to point out that men in the US are, on average, fatter than the women.

kevbo's avatar

@shilolo, et al. you obviously took it that way, but I don’t think that’s how it was meant, as allen himself has stated.

andrew's avatar

@shilolo: I don’t think you’re giving him credit. agreed, @kevbo.

Knotmyday's avatar

who could go for a pizza right now?

shilolo's avatar

@Kebvo and Andrew. Really? You both can’t be serious. He totally meant it as a slam towards women (i.e. see his response to Harp’s query.) As the old saying goes, “People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”

tinyfaery's avatar

I can’t do dairy :(

tinyfaery's avatar

I agree with shilolo I think he meant to slam American women. (Did you know that if I spell america without a capital A my spell check registers it as an error? Interesting.)

allengreen's avatar

@shilolo—i can see how you in could be taken that way—and I have said that I am sorry for the poor choice of words.

I detect a “femi-Nazi” attitude developing here.

Who was it that said, “so young, and so angry”?

kevbo's avatar

Again, he doesn’t look at guys. Sue him for being myopic.

marinelife's avatar

I think allengreen is backpedaling here. He meant it as a slam on women. I am happy if he is feeling differently after seeing how upsetting it was to many people.

By the way, the fact of Americans being more obese than their counterparts in Europe and elsewhere cannot be disputed. Allengreen is right in that.

Here is some data from Fortune:

“OBESITY Percent overweight

Men Women U.S. 19.9% 24.9% Germany 18.2% 21.3% France 8.6% 8.4% Britain 16.0% 17.0% Netherlands 8.4% 8.3% Sweden 5.3% 9.1% Italy 6.5% 6.3% Japan 1.8% 2.6% South Korea N.A. N.A. ”

tinyfaery's avatar

Femi nazi? Now you’re just trying to be incendiary. Not cool!

marinelife's avatar

@allengreen OK, I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt until the femenazi crack.

tinyfaery's avatar

Ok. I’ll go in on a pizza.

wildflower's avatar

BBQ sauce and extra cheese on mine!!

kevbo's avatar

What, this wasn’t met with hostility?

marinelife's avatar

@kevbo Yes, it was, because it was so patently one-sided. It came across as an attack on women.

poofandmook's avatar

This could be a classic example of what I have to tell my boyfriend nearly weekly: Your choice of words can often be way worse than your point if you don’t take time to choose them carefully. Also, your poor choice of words can destroy any good point you try to make. Sort of along the lines of “First impressions are everything.” The first way you phrase something is what’s going to stick, no matter how you try to correct yourself later.

kevbo's avatar

American women at that, and from an enemy who has had suspect travelings abroad. Someone call Homeland Security.

shilolo's avatar

@Kevbo. Myopia is no defense for misogyny. I have seen many more morbidly obese men as patients than women, by the way. And, if you ever watch football games on the weekends, you’ll see 100s of guys, shirts off, bellies hanging over sweatpants, holding 5 hotdogs and downing a case of beer. Finally, who can forget the quintessential obese American.

kevbo's avatar

OMG that is so mansogynist.

Knotmyday's avatar

“Misandrist.”

Continue.

wildflower's avatar

You can’t dig your way up from a hole you dug yourself in to. Just park the spade and reach for a hand.

kevbo's avatar

@knotmyday, literally, I’ve been wondering for 15 years now if such a word existed. Thanks!

Knotmyday's avatar

no problem

allengreen's avatar

I’m going to happy hour, get me some pizza, beer, and a BBW…..

I am taking my shallow a$$, presbyopic self to a break.

I enjoyed the discussion, I have learned a lot, and take the lesson of crafting a more concise question seriously. I have also learned that American women cannot engage in an objective conversation (however poorly crafted the question) without FREAKING OUT. If I said American men were fat, no body would have ever responded, I bet. Some one try it and prove me wrong.

We live in a man hating culture. To be man and have an opinon is a crime in America, like crying fire in a theater.

This community is a lot of fun, and you all rock—even those who now are angry.

Look forward to another polemic question tomorrow for sure.

Peace and love to all.

marinelife's avatar

@allengreen Well, it was a lively discussion, wasn’t it? You are right about men not caring about fat, but men have plenty of other sensitivities.

We do not live in a man hating culture. We live in a culture in which women are beginning to call men to account for actions and behaviors. I love men. I just want what they have. I would like equal pay for equal work.

None of that has very much to do with this question, however. See you in the Q&As.

shilolo's avatar

@Allen. FYI, I am a man and thought your question was poorly worded at best, and misogynistic at worst. I simply wanted to point out that making generalizations on faulty, anecdotal “data” is wrong. Man or woman, it doesn’t matter.

kevbo's avatar

Wow. Time to close up the site, I guess. No more questions without independently researched, double-blind data. Just relying on one’s perception no longer meets the standard.

jcs007's avatar

sweet discussion.

flameboi's avatar

Oh my, what’s happening here :s

flameboi's avatar

waiting for shilolo response

shilolo's avatar

Very funny Kevbo. Perhaps the old adage “Think before you speak” should be part of the Fluther motto. How many times have people been corrected for not doing even a modicum of research before posting (the 100s of iPhone questions come to mind)? Allen (deliberately, in my mind) wanted to stir the pot, and I point out that even his (intentionally malicious) observation is wrong, and this upsets you? Gee, what am I going to do with myself?

I commend you for defending someone who was obviously trying to be a jerk.

As an aside, science and medicine are what I do for a living. I detest anecdotal “evidence” for precisely this reason. Here’s an example, I saw a red-headed fat man today walk down the street today… My question “Why are red-heads so much fatter than brunettes.” Sound vaguely familiar?

flameboi's avatar

lurve to u buddy

poofandmook's avatar

I think someone just has his panties in a bunch today.

kevbo's avatar

Jerk or not, there have been few answers to his question and many assaults on his character. You might observe that I took some delight in his spelling mistakes, so it’s not like I’m blindly waving his flag.

There was a time a few months ago when a vocal group of atheists decided to silence every fluthering bible-thumper using similar tactics. I’m not a religious person, but I believe religious questions are also valid to ask on Fluther, despite what seems to be the tyrannous minority of opinion here. Even though a lot of those bible thumpers were proselytizing assholes who often disguised their preaching as questions, I stuck up for them when they finally came around to asking legitimate religious questions. So, yes, I stick up for assholes if their questions have some merit.

shilolo's avatar

I think most would agree that this question was poorly worded, but, I believe, intentionally so. That was why I wanted to direct Allen to the actual evidence pointing to the fact that American men are fatter than women (on average). In addition, and in general, I think more “data-driven” discussion would be a boon to this site. Too many people rely on gestalt or personal experience to answer questions (without knowing the “right answer”). I can think of many medical questions that have gone that way. Perhaps that is the nature of this site, but I hope to (at minimum) instill some data and research into my answers.

As far as religion is concerned, I am in favor of open and frank religious discussions here (as I think most people would be). Problem is, the signal to noise ration on those types of questions is very low (1 decent question for every 99 religious zealots).

dragonflyfaith's avatar

I think everyone was a little tenser with this particular question partly because it was not the first of its nature over the last few days.

Also I just want to add that I prefer larger men. According to the Hollywood standards my husband would be considered overweight but I love every ounce of him. He wants to lose weight for his health, especially now that he’s becoming a father and I fully support him in that but I do not find him any less attractive because he is a bit larger.

Size does not change the way I feel about a person regradless of their gender.

scamp's avatar

@allengreen, enjoy your pizza and beer. Nice diet. I bet you’re very slender. I doubt you will find the BBW you mentioned so you may want to find some company here.

I can’t beleive I wasted my time reading all this nonsense.

nikipedia's avatar

@allengreen: I managed to ask your question without offending anyone.. It still got answers. I’m done here.

gailcalled's avatar

@all: does ag’‘s avatar look like Rush Limbaugh? (I can’t enlarge it). The neologism “fema-nazI” is a Limbaugh invention.

shilolo's avatar

@Gail. Its an even worse person (if that’s possible), Karl Rove.

allengreen's avatar

The avatar is Rove—the guy congress does not have the balls to incarcerate. Rove is flipping you the bird—I hate Republicans.

@nik—your question was boring and so was the discussion, er, i mean lack of discussion, boring. I could care less why a rise in obesity.

I wanted to know why American women are so huge compared to women in other developed countries—I have my answer

@scamp—I would not touch a BBW with a ten ft pool and you pushing, thank you for your lack of thoughful discussion.

I’m not backing down one inch—what is wrong, cannot take it if a man tells you the truth, it hurts as evidence by all the hate monging by fat chicks—I’m assuming they are fat because they are so bitter.

Eat your heart out.

tinyfaery's avatar

@allen I take it back, you are an asshole, and probably a single one at that.You exist solely to make conflict, and are therefore useless.

What men? Where? All I see in you is a snot-nosed brat. Don’t insult men by including yourself in that group.

Oh, and actually, Australia is the “fattest” country, so unsheathe your claws at them instead.

Never again will I comment on any of your posts. Please remove me from your “my fluther”. I don’t want to be associated with you in any way.

Silence!

gailcalled's avatar

@Allen: you can’t get much exercise in a ten-foot pool; maybe two strokes per lap? and I am one of the hate-monging normal-sized chicks, I guess.

tinyfaery's avatar

@gail I don’t always understand your posts, but I always enjoy them!

gailcalled's avatar

Thank you. This guy got up my nose so I brought out my editor’s hat. He meant to say “ten-foot pole” and “hate-mongering.” My strong feeling is that if you are going to be opinionated, haughty and arrogant, you have to write in an original and elegant fashion like William Buckley (RIP).

poofandmook's avatar

yesterday, allen, you wanted to make up with us and you were supposedly turned on by some of the pictures of more-than-bag-of-bones women. So, you’re a liar too?

wildflower's avatar

“roflmmfao”?? Surely this allengreen character doesn’t have a fat ass!!! It would be unthinkable for someone of his depth and profoundness to be applying double-standards!!

allengreen's avatar

Anything that is distasteful to women is met with a group think kamikaze attack, add homonym, irrational, and illogical, not to mention bitchy…..
American Women are so large in comparison from women from the rest of the world because American women delude themselves into thinking, they are fat and gorgeous, and that being obese is normal, and that since your friends cohorts are fat, that being fat is the norm.
This thread demonstrates the manner in which women in general will stop at nothing in attempts to emasculate anyone that disagrees by attacking distorting and generally acting out like sugar intoxicated 3 yr olds.
Despite the controversial nature of my question, and despite my attempts to be civil and self depricating and apologetic, I was attacked and harrassed and distorted and eventually even my character was assailed, and my physicality was attacked——is that not ironic?
Thank you women of America, for showing yourselves vicious, petty, self-serving, and unable to maintain rationality.
There are a couple exceptions, folks that pm’d me and I have already expressed my admiration for those who where sincerely discussing the topic, we agreed to disagree—I love you folks, you are the vast minority.
Now I understand why most of my friends marry women of other cultures.

wildflower's avatar

Oh you poor thing! But really, shouldn’t you be able to take it as well as you give it? Seriously, read your own posts. You dislike and disrespect (American) women, that much is very clear and you really can’t be surprised if a few of them want to have their say after you had yours.
As for my attack on your character, I merely found it ironically hilarious to think you might have some exess fat yourself, considering how you view women who do.

Oh, and I’m not American, but I still find some of the generalizing statements made in this thread to be quite awful and would be very surprised if there are any women you actually like.

scamp's avatar

Now I understand why most of my friends marry women of other cultures.

I find it amusing that you don’t mention yourself being in any type of relationship. I don’t think it take much of a stretch of the imagination to guess why.

I think you are a bitter nasty person who is just looking to stir up some drama by insulting any and all of the members here you can. So now that you’ve got your jollies by getting a rise out of so many, crawl back under the bridge. The other trolls miss you.

gailcalled's avatar

Allen: you keep asking for it; add homonym would be to say fat ass = callipygian; do you mean ad hominem? That is something completely different. As I said, if you are going to bring out the big guns, make sure they are loaded properly. (self-deprecating; and vast minority is our old friend, the oxymoron.

Knotmyday's avatar

Perhaps he meant “self-defecating?” It would seem infinitely more appropriate.

gailcalled's avatar

(Stop me, someone.) Physicality is exactly right. It means the quality or condition of being physical or preoccupation with the physical, especially bodily or carnal matters. Do you mean how you fit into the crowd physically?

kevbo's avatar

Gail, did you ever know that you’re my hero?

allengreen's avatar

Like I said, vicious, petty, self-serving, and unable to maintain rationality…

@scamp—what does my relationship status have to do with American Women being larger than their counterparts?

I’ve been married for 14 years, two children—girls, 7 & 4 lmmfao.

@gail—this is not a thesis or disertation, so your petty critique of my writing errors, are just that—petty.

@gail and Scamp——I’ve shared my personal detail about my status, so be fair if you can (i doubt it) and tell—how large are you girls?

marinelife's avatar

@ag “Like I said, vicious, petty, self-serving, and unable to maintain rationality…” Excellent summary of yourself.

kevbo's avatar

“Dissertation”

Spelling and grammar matter here.

gailcalled's avatar

@ag: check my profile. I pass for about 15 years younger than my 71. I keep fit and wear the same size jeans I did in HS. (5’ 7” -size twelve.)

What matters here, or anywhere else for that matter, is clarity. Too many egregious mistakes in word choice and usage muddle your arguments. Spelling and grammar may be forgiven if the statement or thesis is clear. My criticisms are hardly petty and I am not doing a critique of your thesis, which would be to analyze the contents..

If you passed me in the street, you might give me a wink. I’ve had two children and helped raise three step-sons. I’ve held down jobs that required many skills…ach, ask my nephen, Ben.

dragonflyfaith's avatar

I think the slander and name calling has gotten out of hand on this one. It is no longer a discussion or healthy debate but rather a challenge to see who can throw the biggest insult.

@ag I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask anyone their age, sex, weight or size. If they want to volunteer that information on their own that’s up to them.

In general, let’s try to keep the personal attacks to a minimum.

allengreen's avatar

sure, it is fine to insult and attack me, but if I respond in kind, then I’m the bad guy.

shilolo's avatar

@Allen. What surprises me most is your shock and dismay at the general response to your broadside attack on American women. As I’ve said before, this was clearly a premeditated assault, but now you feel cowed? What, precisely, did you think would happen? You either knew full well that this would create havoc (in which case you are justifiably getting your anticipated result) or are so dense as to not be able to understand the repercussions of such inflammatory remarks.

In summary, the overwhelming majority of users here (both men and women) are caring and thoughtful people. They may disagree frequently, but at minimum, the terms are civil. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

dragonflyfaith's avatar

@ag I said “In general, let’s try to keep the personal attacks to a minimum.” That was on a line different than the one speaking to you. The only thing I was directing to you was @ag I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask anyone their age, sex, weight or size. If they want to volunteer that information on their own that’s up to them. Thus the @ag

poofandmook's avatar

I am forced to wonder how men would respond to a question about a very sensitive subject for men; one that brings them to the depths of their own insecurity at times: “Why do American men have much larger [parts] than men from other countries?”

wildflower's avatar

allengreen,
You set the tone for the thread with your question and additional comments. You’ve made your opinion very clear (women with opinions or excessive fat are nazi’s, petty and vicious in addition to being disgusting) – the least you can do is allow other flutherers to express theirs – even if that opinion is about you.

poofandmook's avatar

to clarify, since I’ve gotten private messages: I meant to say American men have “larger” because he, as a non-American, was attacking Americans. So I, as an American, used an example that might hit him the same way.

scamp's avatar

It has become more than obvious that mr green is not out to make any friends here. In fact he seems to love the attention he gets here and it doesn’t matter if it is negative or positive. Maybe if we ignore him he will move on and insult another community and leave us in peace. I say we let this thread die.

dragonflyfaith's avatar

Die thread, die! Wait, now I just bumped it again. Ok, ok I’m not posting here anymore. Promise…

allengreen's avatar

@“Why do American men have much larger [parts] than men from other countries?”

@poof—it is a good question, a question you should pose to the forum. I don’t have the answer….

delirium's avatar

I am disappointed in you. I was giving you a chance, and it’s sad that you’ve made me begin to regret my decision.

allengreen's avatar

When the lowest common denominators of “group think” manifest themselves, and I defend myself, what does that have to do with you?
Sorry you feel that way, sincerely.

kevbo's avatar

I’m still with Allen on this one and believe that others’ reactions are what started this.

While we are on the topic of double standards, I think it’s criminal that Allen was skewered over this question, when not one day later a question that followed nearly the same logic format was gushed over because it was perceived as “nice.” I guess “nice” means no data required, and we can just tell stories about our perceptions of what women are like and have a giggle.

I don’t disagree that weight is a sensitive subject for women, but the vehement reactions affirmed other stereotypes that Allen articulated above.

An alternative response could have been something along the lines of “Actually, @allengreen, the data show that American men are fatter than American women…” That would have been no less accurate and much more civil.

poofandmook's avatar

@Kevbo: I hardly think you can compare my question centered around old women pinching cheeks to a question that’s derogatory. That’s really sort of unfair. It’s not the type of thing that requires data; it’s an observance of life experience only. My question was posed with the word “often” included, while Allen’s was posed definitively. Let’s be fair here.

allengreen's avatar

@poof—you’re cool by me, even though you are mad at me….maybe I should not say so in public…..

It seems that in our current culture, if something anger’s a woman, then a gang of women band together, throw out any and all conventions of decorum, and procede to knaw the balls of of the offending male…...

Then follow’s the emotional black mail (ahem, delirium )......did I not admit the question was poorly worded and insensitive? Does that mean I must disavow my eyes?

I think I’ve got my next question——thank you for the inspriration.

allengreen's avatar

@kev——how do you walk with such big balls?

poofandmook's avatar

@allen: While I may be grossly offended by your perception of larger women… I did contribute to your question about your daughter. So I wouldn’t say I’m mad at you, but I know damn well what subjects not to approach with you. At any rate, knowing what a ruckus your question caused, do you think that the question I asked that Kevbo pointed out is the same thing as yours because I pointed out the female factor?

allengreen's avatar

@poof, my family is Italian, and I have one cheek larger than the other from being pinched by so many aunts and cousins….your question was politically correct, and cute and garnered cute answers…I am and will be much more careful in how I word questions, but will not back down from a point unless evidence to the contrary is brought out.

I think our culture need to avail itself to unpleasent truths (subjective), and still maintain some level of civility

poofandmook's avatar

@allen: But, surely you can understand how women… at least larger women… would come at you with fists up after that sort of question and some of the other things you said. From the point of view of someone who’s battled weight their whole lives, and been bullied and picked on their whole childhood… you can see why we might look at you with daggers, no? We deserve love too, and not just to be what men settle for when they can’t have a thinner woman. Plus, women in general, at least here in America, are sort of bred to fight any shred of oppression.

allengreen's avatar

@POOF you make a valid point and I have said I am sorry, and admitted the question could be construed as insensitive….I’m on my knees, there was no value judgement in the beginning of the discussion, just a comparative analysis…....

kevbo's avatar

@poof, if you or anyone else finds a question derogatory, that says more about you than the question. Questions can be ignorant or leading (in fact other than rhetorical, that is their nature), but unlike a statement, a question cannot be derogatory or prejudiced. And, Allen’s was no less an expression of his life experience (in this case as a myopic hetero male).

more in a minute… I’m on the phone

shilolo's avatar

@Kevbo. Really? A question most certainly can be inflammatory, prejudiced or derogatory. For example, which group are dumber blonds or redheads? Or, which group is cheaper, Scots or Jews? Note: Both of these are examples meant to prove a point. I am neither against blonds/redheads nor Scot/Jews (I am myself Jewish, after all).

kevbo's avatar

@shilolo, I absolutely concede that point. I spoke too broadly.

However, there is a difference between your examples and “Why are Jews cheaper than Scots? I just got back from Scotland and am shocked…” The former are indeed predjudiced, etc. The latter is simply ignorant and affords the opportunity to discern the truth, even if the answer is beyond the question.

gailcalled's avatar

Time to make the donuts, everyone.

allengreen's avatar

@shilolo——point well taken——I’m down for donuts

kevbo's avatar

are you saying that the resolution to this is to eat doughnuts?

I kid.

In related news

allengreen's avatar

@kev—you kill me dude!

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