Social Question

rojo's avatar

Will Trump allow or perhaps expect his son to take the fall for the Russian connection?

Asked by rojo (22074points) July 12th, 2017

Will he continue to deny any knowledge of the actions of his subordinates? Or will he stand up and admit that he knew what was going on even if he did not authorize it?

What type of man is he?

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39 Answers

rojo's avatar

My personal opinion (is there any other kind?) is that he will allow AND expect it even though it is his own son.

He strikes me as the kind of, and I use the term facetiously, “leader” who expects minions to take the blame and will tolerate no less.

His idea of loyalty is a one way street; subordinates owe their loyalty to him but the reverse is not true.

kritiper's avatar

No laws have been broken yet. The wheels may yet fall off so we can wait and see.

Yellowdog's avatar

At the time, Hillary Clinton had much more deals with the Russians—remember the Uranium One deal and the smashed blackberries and destroyed laptops and bleachbit?

No one was into the Trump-Russia Collusion hysteria at the time. Obama was aware that the Russians were meddling, but did nothing. Probably because Hillary was expected to win and was on good terms with both Russians and Ukranians.

There is nothing Trump Jr. did not turn over because he got no damning information or anything at all, Just 20 minutes of small talk about Russian adoptions, which he kept only as a courtesy. Considering that the “Russian Lawyer” is in so many Hillary photo-ops, I believe the whole thing was a set-up,

Trump Jr. has turned over everything to the FBI. (Unlike Hillary Clinton, who destroyed evidence when subpoenaed and information procured from other sources) Even if everything alleged is true, it was poor judgement to have a meeting with Russians without an attorney present. But no laws are broken for getting dirt on your opponent.

Had there been any high level information against Hillary, yes, he should have turned it over to the authorities / U,S, intelligence. Hillary didn’t turn anything over. Trump Jr. has disclosed everything. I am not excusing what Trump Jr. did but I find it odd that I see no posts from you about what Hillary did.

Nothing in the emails is a crime. There will be no lethal injection (Treason charge).

johnpowell's avatar

I kinda expect them to want him to take the fall. He would just get pardoned and then in their minds it would be problem solved.

Yellowdog's avatar

Are you alleging a crime has taken place?

MrGrimm888's avatar

^You give yourself away sir. You clearly just believe Trump JR. Saying he turned over everything, but Hillary didn’t? Why would you trust one politician, over another. They’re all crooks. But you believe Trump’s kid.
There’s no way you could prove that either Hillary, or JR, didn’t hide or destroy more evidence.

“It doesn’t matter what our guy did, Hillary did it worse,” is a piss poor argument….

Yellowdog's avatar

It IS true that Trump Jr. might’ve not turned over everything. But we DO know what Hillary did.

filmfann's avatar

A Presidential Pardon is probably being drafted now.

Lightlyseared's avatar

@Yellowdog yes. What Hilliard did was not sell her soul to the Russians to win an election.

flutherother's avatar

Trump Junior says he did not tell his father about his meeting with the Russians which I find hard to believe but it helps create a fire break around his father so yes, I think Trump is prepared to let his son take the fall.

stanleybmanly's avatar

What is missed here is the reason that Trump Jr. felt compelled to spill the beans. It’s his brother in law Kushner, who as senior Presidential advisor stands to do prison time. Kushner had neglected to list the meeting in question as required on the form vetting his security eligibility. Kushner, watching the ax descend, hastily filed a revised form revealing the meeting and by so doing, outed all involved. The dirt is piling up around our President, as one by one, everyone associated with him drifts on the irresistible current toward the falls of indictment. Isolating Trump himself from the heat on his roasting associates is now beyond problematic. Any day now it will be every snake for himself.

rojo's avatar

@Yellowdog Things just get worse and worse.

For months now Trump has sworn up and down that “this Russia thing” is a hoax, scam and attempt by Dems to justify losing, it never happened, there is no evidence.

Well, here is evidence that it did happen, that there were discussions between high level exec’s in his campaign and the Russians (and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

So, after months of denial he now comes out (because and only because here is the proof) and says “Ok, so maybe there was. But nothing happened, I swear, and besides, anyone would do it”.

And what do Republicans and the Republican Party leadership say about these months and months of lies and obfuscations?

Nothing.

Even after Trump admits it.

Nothing.

Yellowdog's avatar

It looks like the Russian lawyer was brought in by Attorney General Loretta Lynch and had ties to GPS Fusion, the Christopher Steele dossier, and Hillary Clinton.

There is no panic among the Trump administration as you’re lampooning,, but maybe Loretta Lynch should be investigated.

flutherother's avatar

@Yellowdog “Somebody said that her visa or her passport to come into the country was approved by Attorney General Lynch,” Trump said at a press conference in Paris. “Now, maybe that’s wrong. I just heard that a little while ago, but a little surprised to hear that. So, she was here because of Lynch.”

“Somebody said” “maybe that’s wrong” the words of Trump. How can you place any credence on this?

Yellowdog's avatar

I saw a link to an article from The Hill (a Washington political news source) on my Facebook page, I heard additional information on The Ben Ferguson Show, and of course the entire line-up on the Fox cable channel.

I do not understand why people have a problem with Fox. All of it is reported from other sources and direct interviews.

In any case, it coincides with what I have procured from several sources.

I am trying to figure out, based on what I’ve heard—I DO know that the Attorney and the British-forged Russian “Christopher Steel Dossier” both have direct ties to Fusion GPS (and Russia) and Fusion GPS has ties to the DNC. and that Loretta Lynch (who pardoned Hillary for her REAL crimes last summer) personally allowed the Russian Lawyer to remain in America under extrenuating circumstances when her visa was denied.

It was all a long con, a trap to snare Trump into discredit himself meeting with Russians. And, quite possibly, to create a pretext to obtain a FISA warrant to electronically surveil the Trump campaign under color of national security interests..

Remember, it wasn’t too long ago when many of you were saying Trump was insanely paranoid for believing he was being surveiled.

JLeslie's avatar

I think they will let the chips fall, if any do, and yes the president will let his son take the blame. Can’t the president just pardon him?

@Yellowdog Probably they all are surveilling each other. Both sides definitely hunt and hunt for things to fuck over the other candidate. The Republicans are relentless usually, and now the Democrats are catching up. If you don’t see how the Republicans are horrible when it comes to this sort of thing then you are a hypocrite. They spent a shitload of time and money impeaching Clinton for a blowjob. Seriously? Talked endlessly about a Hawaiian birth certificate not being valid, and promoted that Obama had never turned in his certificate of birth when he had. Imagine if you found out Trump had sex with someone other than his wife. Do you want the country to go through impeachment for that?

Even if Trump Jr. received no information worth anything from the Russians they still told a big fat lie. It doesn’t matter that other politicians lie (I agree they do) the point is the Trump team lied when asked very direct questions on forms, possibly in interviews, and in the media. This isn’t something trivial, it’s about talking to a country we have a precarious relationship with. Can you imagine saying, “I didn’t have any contact with the Russians” when you had, on a federal form for security approval? No way you forget something like that. They were purposely deceptive.

I get how you can ignore it, it’s because you simply don’t believe the Trumps would do anything to harm the country even if he did something not quite in the up and up. That’s what Democrats do regarding their candidates.

rojo's avatar

@Yellowdog

You are only one step away from completing!:

The Five Stages of Trump Supporter Denial:
1. It’s a total lie, never happened, fake news.
2. It happened, but it’s not a big deal. A Nothing Burger
3. Ok, it might be a big deal, but it isn’t illegal..so who cares.
4. Ok, it’s illegal, but Crooked Hillary and Obummer did “something something”, so it’s ok.
5. Get over it Libtard, you’re just a sore loser!

rojo's avatar

@Yellowdog

So now the meeting was a liberal Democratic setup!?!?!?!? Seriously?

You mean that meeting that for the past twelve plus months never happened? That meeting?

You mean the one set up by JR’s own friend/acquaintance/rockstar/son of Trump business partner and Russian Oligarch with questionable ties to the Russian Mafia/? That meeting?

You mean that meeting entered into with the express purpose of getting dirt on Clinton per Jr’s own email? The stuff he would “love” to get hold of? That meeting?

The one with the Russian Lawyer who just happens to be the same lawyer for the company that the Sessions DOJ dropped charges of money laundering for purchasing real estate in NY against this past May two days before the trial and after firing the US atty for the SDNY who was overseeing the investigation even after Trump had met with him in November and assured him his job was secure? That meeting?

The meeting whose reason for changed several times in as many days each time the media questioned the reason given and said they had more information that was going to be printed? That meeting?

The meeting that was attended by all the members of the upper echelon of the Trump campaign? That meeting?

The one that took place in Trump Tower at a time when Trump himself just happened to be in the building? That meeting?

The one that didn’t happen? That meeting?

You know, at some point ya gotta quit looking for reasons to excuse this type of lying, amoral, misconduct and own up that you have been deceived by Trump and is administration.

Remember the old saw “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”.

Shame on you.

rojo's avatar

One other thing, Veselnitskaya, the Russian Lawyer, was allowed to stay in the country to defend her client, Prevazon in the court case. The one that Sessions dropped in May.

MrGrimm888's avatar

The dems never took Trump seriously. But now there was a massive, elaborate conspiracy to smear Trump, that began before he was even elected? Lol…

It must take some artful thinking,and amazing ignorance to remotely entertain such an idea…

Let me guess, Obama devised it all in a secret Muslim meeting in Kenya? The poor, innocent Trumps just fell for all these traps, because the diabolical Obama set it up so perfectly?

stanleybmanly's avatar

When you compare the narratives of this between Trump’s supporters and detractors, it is rather clear that the gulf in perceptions is about more than lack of objectivity. Ours is a country where probably half the population under 40 would not recognize the significance of the word “Nixon”. Regarding those old or cognizant enough to know about Nixon, I’d bet not one in 100 capable of an approximately accurate explanation for his resignation.

This is our plight. It is astonishing the fervor with which defenders of Trump contend that the Russian probes are simply political maneuvers cooked up by Democrats and their hatchet men, the “mainstream liberal media”. I’ve been watching FOX, and the disconnect between developments in these investigations and the perceptions of Hannity (for example). Here’s a man livid to the point of apoplexy that 30 years of supposed criminality on the part of Hillary can gain no traction, as Trump is forced to “lawyer up” 4 months out of the gate. @Yellowdog and all other defenders of Trump are outraged by what they contend a clear cut example of double standards, and will consider no other explanation including the REAL one: The so called “charges” against Clinton are so clearly partisan and devoid of substance that they serve no purpose once she is of no political import. Most of those clamoring perpetually for her indictment have the cynical sense to appreciate this, which is why the effort vanished like snow in August on her defeat in November. The dimmer bulbs (Hannity) however still beat the tiresome drum, and the noggins nod like bobbleheads on the receiving end of the message.

Yellowdog's avatar

Hey, folks—I give up on this one. It’s not worth it to me or any of you.

There is too much BIAS to get a clear-cut conclusion. I HAVE looked from all sides of this issue and find too much TRUTH and BIAS on all fronts.

I think we ALL agree that there was Russian interference. Misrepresentation from a Russian. I give up on this one. Let the chips fall where they may. and I appreciate your being civil—or if not civil, making a sincere effort at being civil. I am not here to try to persuade you because that’s never happened—but to get information from your side and consider if what I believe is biased or wrong.

Yellowdog's avatar

Stanley, LOTS of media have had to retract stories as Hannity exposed falsehoods and lies. CNN and MSNBC and good ole Morning Joe have been damaged greatly as fakery has been exposed,

If he’s wrong or lying, then he has deceived about 60–80 million people, so he’s not a “dim bulb”

Yellowdog's avatar

MCGrimm—we DO know that the Obama administration, with and without FISA warrants, illegally survielled hundreds of people in the Trump campaign, unmasked them (a felony), and in many cases leaked them to the media (another felony). No conspiracy theory here,

Comey will be the first to be investigated. Since he’s already confessed he most likely WILL be charged and do some federal prison time. But the crimes are too many to prosecute everyone.

stanleybmanly's avatar

You believe Comey will be charged ahead of Flynn or Kushner? And I don’t think Hannity is deliberately lying, but he like most Trump supporters don’t seem to understand the gravity or implications in the case around the Trump gang.

MrGrimm888's avatar

OK @Yellowdog . Let’s say Obama is the anti-christ. Why wouldn’t he, and the dems use this power to simply stop Trump from winning the election? All the power, connections, and thievery was just to get Trump into office, so they could smear him in a more public fashion?

Listen to yourself sir…

Admit that you will NEVER see fault in Trump. Only fault in Obama, but not Bush who is the reason for most of Obama’s actions. And Trump is just a helpless old patriot. A victim of the powerful minorities in the US… He just wants what’s best for the country? Ha! Trump must make delicious bull shit sandwiches. His supporters love them….

Yellowdog's avatar

I’m a Trump supporter yeigh its true, But like your dog or cat I am amicable to other views—but I do see a lot of victimhood in politics and would like to point out what’s going on as it occurs.

Trump won the election because he campaigned hard and connected with people all across America—many whom the Left ignored. People fear the politically correct thought police elitism of the left, and are offended at wrongly being called racists, homophobes, xenophobes.and the barrage of the left that is endlessly attacking Trump, anyone associated with Trump, or a conservative Republican.

Instead of trying to invalidate the election or go on with your coupe, learn why he won and is not succumbing, and will never be defeated in spite of all the odds. Get with reality and stop the delusions.

johnpowell's avatar

@Yellowdog :: I just want to make sure we agree on this. If I point a gun at you and my limp liberal wrist fails me and I miss by a few inches. Is that still attempted murder? My intent was to kill you I just fucked it up.

Still a crime?

Yellowdog's avatar

I think it was extremely poor judgement what Trump Junior did—and I imagine this won’t ever go away. It is not just a turning point in the Trump presidency but probably will have a mark in the history books.

The question is, is this a crime?

I don’t mean to trivialize this, as it is indeed very serious, But is it a crime?

I’m reading mostly from The Hill and Politico. — You probably won’t like my findings or conclusions but that’s okay what I think really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. But Loretta Lynch seems to be a significant player in this. The Lawyer and several other anti-Trump colluders have ties to Fusion G.P.S. and the British Christopher Steele who produced the fake Russian Dossier / Ritz Carlton / Russia. We also know from a January 12 article in The Hill that Hillary colluded with the Ukrainians against Trump.

It seems to me this is far, far more serious than what Trump Jr was trapped/misled into doing. I am trying to follow it and figure it out with my limited and usually biased sources. But if Loretta Lynch or James Comey were investigated, a very serious network of felonies and federal crimes would be unraveled, involving the Clinton campaign. We DO now have intelligence that would move forward with this, but the Trump/Russia hysteria will continually obstruct anything that will move the matter forward.

Yellowdog's avatar

I want to say, also, that I do NOT believe there are any actual crimes in the Trump campaign involving Russian collusion—Russians preferred Hillary because Trump is unpredictable and Hillary/Obama already had ties to Putin (Russian Reset, Nuclear One, Obama’s “Open Mike” comment that was caught.

I DO think there will be a political coupe d’état will be attempted by the Left, who are becoming very militant and violent (“Antifa”) and anti-law-enforcement. This coupe, lost or won, will be more significant than the Civil War—and if America falls—what will the terrorists, North Koreans, even the Russians do?

Why do I accept Trump? He seems unshakeable in spite of this seven-month barrage of hysteria and propaganda. If he saves this polarized and ever-escalating violent America, the world will eventually become stable again.

stanleybmanly's avatar

A coup will be unnecessary as this crowd of not too bright criminals clearly cannot withstand close scrutiny. Unlike the concerted effort to nail Hillary, this Russian episode is in every way a bipartisan effort. Whatever screwups Clnton or Loretta Lynch may have been accused of, not one responsible entity has ever concluded that either of them did anything that might qualify as criminal. And the proof is that through all of the accusations neither of them were advised to lawyer up. THAT is the BIG difference between those 2 women and the Trump entourage. The fact that top ranking members of the Trump crowd will now face the coming ordeal with each under the direction of high priced legal talent marks the Rubicon moment in this investigation. And the reason is that all that expensive talent recognizes that the interests of their individual clients does not necessarily coincide with a cohesive and viable Trump administration. When Flynn offered to testify in these investigations for a grant of immunity from prosecution, the lid was blown off it all. Flynn was the first rat off the SS Trump, and clearly sought (under the advice of counsel) to sacrifice the tub and all hands to save himself. The fact that his offer was flatly refused can only mean that his testimony is unnecessary in advancing the case for conspiracy against the Captain and crew. In other words, the committees and agencies already have the goods on the folks involved, and its a signal the rest of that high priced legal talent has not missed. This is why Kushner came clean forcing Trump Jr out in the open, and so it will go as each rat faces the gruesome choice of useless self sacrifice or minimizing prison time.

Yellowdog's avatar

When Trump was meeting with French president Emmanuel Macron a few days ago, CNN was standing outside the White House saying the Trump family had taken a “Bunker Mentality” (implying hiding and huddled inside?) over the Trump Jr. incident.

Are they THAT much unaware of world events, or just trying to keep YOU in the dark?

Meanwhile, a White House spokesperson was telling CNN that there was not a “bunker mentality” that Trump was in Paris—the Trump family meeting with the French president == and that CNN had fallen to Number 13 in ratings, lower than Nick at Night at number 11. More people watch 50-year-old reruns of Yogi Bear than CNNs reporting of the President.

Now THAT’s a joke.

MrGrimm888's avatar

There is no correlation between accuracy, and viewer ratings. If anything, people are probably fed up watching the Trump show. I know I am… I get sick of hearing about all Trump’s behavior. I believe almost all of what is reported about him. His own words are typically far worse than anything reported.

If accuracy, or facts are important, that should eliminate Trump himself as a source. His childlike rantings on twitter, are often contradictory to either reality, or his own words from previous declarations. THAT is a joke. But it isn’t very funny….

Yellowdog's avatar

When Trump met with the Russian ambassador, CNN was abuzz with how he betrayed TOP SECRET information to a HOSTILE government and how he committed TREASON and was THE MOST SERIOUS ACT YET of his presidency and how no one wanted to impeach him but they had no choice at this point as he had compromised too many American and Israeli lives.

The source was “Former White House Officials”. But people with REAL NAMES who were actually there denied the story—still, it persisted until the next scandal—days after Comey denied he had ever been pressured regarding the investigation, and about 20 hours after Hillary was blaming Comey for her election loss and demanding his resignation, Trump fired Comey and then Trump was regarded as obstructing justice and this was THE MOST SERIOUS ACT YET of his presidency and how no one wanted to impeach him but they had no choice at this point as he had compromised too many American lives with THE ENEMY and was trying to OBSTRUCT and INVESTIGATION.

Every week it is SOMETHING the left is accusing—and its always the exact opposite of what they wanted just the week before… and its always the MOST SERIOUS, TREASONOUS ACT EVER, A.K.A. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, who were convicted of conspiring to pass U.S. atomic secrets to the Soviets, Did Trump set this up so that his OWN FAMILY MEMBERS would TAKE THE FALL to keep them distracted from the TRUE INVESTIGATION of Trump’s collusion with the RUSSIANS to STEAL THE ELECTION ?!?!?!?

It WOULD BE FUNNY except SO MANY of you believe this EVERY WEEK over and over, and seem to recall that TRUMP HIMSELF was involved in the wild scandals you allege, And when you have no knowledge over what Trump has accomplished in Poland, Israel, Saudi Arabia, France, Russia. India, China, or with Veterans affairs, you say he’s accomplished NOTHING on the international scene.

The Information Crisis is NOT A JOKE—and it is a deliberate effort at a silent coupe.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Yellowdog I apologize for that outburst. I just get so frustrated.

Yellowdog's avatar

Thanks, Stan — a Coup and not a coupe. Unless someone drives a coupe into the next Trump rally and runs over the lead speaker

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Yellowdog . With all due respect, you have only clarified that you have selective hearing, and a healthy dose of denial in regards to media. Everything you hear negative, you dismiss as lies. Everything you hear positive, you blindly support. You are not alone. This lack of objectivity, is a predominant trait of Trump supporters. Not something that I understand…

There is a crystal clear strategy employed by the administration. Deny, deflect, admit something, say even that was wrong, if caught in more lies start talking about Hillary or Obama…

Again. Hillary, and Obama aren’t relevant to the allegations Trump is having to deal with. If they’re crooks too, fine, put them in jail. Trump stated he would imprison Hillary. He clearly backpedaled on that, because he can’t…. Either way, Trump still has to be held accountable for HIS actions. We can talk all day about allegations or crimes by others. It has ZERO relevance to him…

flutherother's avatar

@Yellowdog You say Trump Jr was “trapped/misled” into discussing the election campaign with a foreign power. I hardly think so. He didn’t meet with the Russians alone, Kushner and Manafort were there too. Were they all misled? Did none of them stop to think that what they were doing was stupid and completely wrong? Do you really think Trump was unaware of what was going on? It amazes me that you are willing to give this corrupt cabal of sons, son in laws and assorted billionaires a free pass when the wrongdoing and the cover up and denials are so blatant..

stanleybmanly's avatar

The information crisis is not a joke. But the crisis is not with the information, nor with those disseminating it. The way I see it, if you are even vaguely aware of the history, rhetoric and behavior of Donald Trump and manage to conclude that the man has any business in the White House, then facts and truth itself are irrelevant. Where @Yellowdog and other of Trump’s supporters are correct is that Trump does indeed understand his voters. The rest of us are just not ready to accept that SO many people are SO obtuse. All of those coal miners and blue collar workers are immune to reason when it comes to Donald Trump. They have to be, because there is no rational defense. So the handy explanation of the overwhelming leftist perspective from those disseminating the news is preferable to “I must be a fool.”

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