General Question

AstroChuck's avatar

How do you feel about straight men making out with other straight men?

Asked by AstroChuck (37378points) August 12th, 2008 from iPhone

Why did I ask this?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

58 Answers

benseven's avatar

Because you secretly have feelings for Chuck Norris, and are wondering if he would reciprocate. This is also why you subconciously gave yourself part of his name.

girlofscience's avatar

I think that this is far more abnormal than straight women making out with other straight women. It’s hard to exactly justify why, but it’s certainly socially true.

Although I know a small number of totally straight men who have made out with other men in bizarre circumstances, it certainly is not the norm. Most men I know who have made out with other men have at least a hint of “gayness” in them. And such a behavior is viewed as odd.

However, it is much more socially acceptable for women.

AstroChuck's avatar

Chuck Norris? I’d rather have Chuck Barkley.

nayeight's avatar

Haha, don’t knock the Norris! Back to your question, I’ve never been in or heard of a situation where any straight guys were kissing each other….

AstroChuck's avatar

Please. Chuck Nortis would probably make out with Mike Huckabee if you got the chance.

trumi's avatar

I’ve only ever seen it when the men are either dared to do it (or paid), or when they are not actually “straight”. Because it is much less accepted in society, guys usually don’t do it unless they have curiosity about their sexuality. Again, Kinsey Scale comes into play. I know guys that are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. I think most of these “straight” men are actually ones or twos.

@chuck; Yeah, and then Mike would spit flames and summon the demons to cast Norris back into hell.

AstroChuck's avatar

Actually, this question is only part tongue in cheek. Why is it not as common with straight men as it is with women? Why do so many look upon two women favorably, but not with two men?

trumi's avatar

Because for thousands of years men make the rules. Men think girl-on-girl is hot, but that homosexuality in men is a sign of femininity and weakness. It just goes back to the belief that male homosexuality is wrong. I think female homosexuality just got lumped in so as not to seem hypocritical (and so women still need men).

So many people in America think being a lesbian is okay, but then they always say some shit like “I just don’t want to see two dudes with they wieners all over each other and shit. That’s gross.”

lapilofu's avatar

@girlofscience:

I think it’s strange that you say straight women can make out with straight women, but straight men who make out with straight me have a little “gayness.”

What exactly do you mean by “gayness”? I would say that making out with someone of the same gender is gay, but then it would be circular to say that men who make out with men also have a little gayness.

JRoberts7's avatar

they do it for pleasure and not for attention! :)

but there not gay, i think it means there just comfortable with there sexuality…..

hmmm…........

lapilofu's avatar

A teacher once explained it to me as a manifestation of sexism. There is still at least a subtle (and in some places not so subtle) assumption that females are a lower class than males. To kiss a man is to do something female and therefore lower yourself in status.

Obviously this is complicated by a whole number of other factors as well, but I really do think this is the basis for homosexuality in men being frowned upon more than homosexuality in women.

girlofscience's avatar

@lapilofu: I don’t know—the “straight” men I’ve known to make out with other men aren’t exactly “straight”—they lean toward the gay side at least somewhat. The women I know who make out with other women don’t lean toward lesbianism at all.

lapilofu's avatar

@girlofscience: But what does it mean to lean toward the gay side? How can you tell that they’re leaning toward the gay side? What are the practical manifestations of that?

SuperMouse's avatar

I don’t like it, not even a single bit.

Larssenabdo's avatar

@lapilofu—eyah. that and the whole thing which came from sexual behavior between men in some ancient cultures, where it all depended upon who was (for want of a better term) topping. The Romans were particularly horrified precisely because it was seen as giving up male status and privilege.

Larssenabdo's avatar

PS, if Johnny Depp is reading this, I’d be happy to give up some status! :D

WakeUp's avatar

The above comment is gay.

McBean's avatar

Did you know that when Chuck Norris does push-ups, he’s not pushing himself up? He is actually pushing the earth down.

tonedef's avatar

@trumi; I think that this gets to the root of why male homosexuality is reviled while female homosexuality is hot. Some gender theorists view any gender transgressions by males as a rejection of the gift of manliness, and they punish this through social disapproval and ostracization. I think that this idea is sort of in play here: when two men reject their “birthright” to court women, society rejects them. Women don’t have this right, so there’s relatively less at stake.

wildflower's avatar

It’d make me feel pretty bummed! Either the guys are secretly gay and I can stop ogling them or I just lost a bet…..

trumi's avatar

@tone; Yeah, men have basically been douchebags since the dawn of time.

Larssenabdo's avatar

@WakeUp, Wake up!! LOL

girlofscience's avatar

@lapilofu: I hate to stereotype sexual orientations, but by “leaning toward the gay side,” I mean that they exhibit at least a few minor mannerisms that are associated with homosexuality.

Straight women who make out with other women don’t generally exhibit any mannerisms typically associated with lesbianism.

PupnTaco's avatar

Then they’re not straight. Gay or Bisexual.

Personally, it doesn’t bother me – but I’ve never seen the appeal. Kinda like smoking.

nikipedia's avatar

I agree with the statement that when two men make out, it comes off as a little “gayer” than when two women make out—and I think this is a direct result of the fact that it is more socially acceptable for women to make out than men. When two men kiss, it is crossing a much bigger, darker, more firmly drawn line.

I don’t have a good guess as to why female homosexuality is more acceptable than male homosexuality. Maybe this is naive, but frankly all of the male-dominated-society-power-struggle stuff sounds vaguely conspiracy theory-y, and also sounds pretty difficult to support with empirical data. I have hazy memories of history classes talking about homosexuality in ancient Greece—they seemed pretty down with it, and their society was muuuuch more patriarchal than ours is, if I remember correctly.

Interesting question, @AstroChuck. I’ll keep doing some research and report back if I find anything.

wundayatta's avatar

Let’s face it. Women are more attractive then men. So most men want to make out with women, and women have an easier time wanting to make out with women as well as men.

Ask any room full of women which they’d rather look at: a naked man, or a naked woman. Women are just more pleasing to the human eye, regardless of the gender of the ogler.

My point is that the preference for women is universal, not just among men. And the prejudice against men, insofar as we can call the bad feelings that most men have about kissing other men, is also universal. Women are either the preferred, or the non-objectionable “kiss object.”

On average, of course!

AstroChuck's avatar

@niki- You took history classes in Ancient Greece? Just how old are you?

dalepetrie's avatar

It is an interesting observation to me that I have absolutely 0 problem with sexuality of any kind (well, other than sexuality which by design requires participation of an unwilling partner such as a child or animal…that is where I draw the line…it’s about consent), yet the idea of two women making out is a turn on, while the idea of two men making out is viscerally unpleasant.

From a pureley aesthetic point of view, I don’t find the male form to be all that pleasant to view, and I perceive men to be essentially “gross” in comparison to women…guys are in no way shape or form a turn on to me. Now, I can certainly view two men kissing and not react with revulsion…I don’t get anything out of it, but it doesn’t give me the “willies”, but I seriously doubt I could kiss another man without vomiting. And it’s not because I fear being gay or being called gay, or feel there would be anything “wrong” with me if I were, or would be worried about “what it meant”...I would just derive massive displeasure from the act to the point that I would have great difficulties going through with it.

So, I’m not really sure the extent to which social mores and culture have shaped my opinions on this…to me, it’s simply like any other behavior that some people find pleasurable which I find unpleasurable…like smoking or mountain climbing. More power to you, if you like it, do it, but it strikes me as an unpleasant activity…the oral component of which makes it somewhat akin to trying to force feed myself a rather pungent vegetable which I can’t stand. I can’t really control my gag reflex, and either activity would kick that bad boy into gear.

This is one reason I don’t place a huge amount of faith in the Kinsey scale’s ability to explain the spectrum of sexuality for both sexes using a 0 to 7 scale. I think men and women may have some similarities in their propensity for attraction to each sex, but I think where the low end of the scale for women implies a simple indiference to homosexual activity, the male scale implies a revulstion to it. I’m not sure if that’s hard wired or cultural, but I’d suggest it’s likely more the former, given my personal take on it, given my overall accepting and open attitude towards homosexuality being so at odds with my personal reaction thereto.

lefteh's avatar

@niki: You’re right about Ancient Greece. Homosexuality (particularly pederasty) was plentiful and acceptable. In our evolved and Judeo-Christian culture, this activity is often taboo or even illegal. We place a much greater stigma on man-on-man activity than many cultures.

That being said, kissing is fun. Especially when it’s taboo, and you get that extra sense of thrill and excitement. I don’t think who you happen to be kissing at the moment determines your sexuality, whether you be male or female. I think that girls and women are able to take advantage of that fun and excitement more easily simply because of our male-driven society. Some men think it’s hot, as others have stated before, and men unfortunately still run the show. Boys and men, however, face a greater social stigma. There is an omnipresent struggle for manliness in this age. Many men go to great lengths to extend others’ perceptions of their manhood. Kissing other men can be a slap in the face to that.
No matter how much fun it might have been.

augustlan's avatar

I think if one grew up in a cultural/social vaccuum, with no preconceived notions of “acceptable” behavior, one would naturally be bisexual, or allsexual for lack of a better word. If it felt good, one would do it. I believe this behavior has been shown to exist in the animal kingdom…but I’m not sure. I do know completely straight men and women, (as in they’d never have a romantic relationship with someone of the same gender) who enjoy sexual activity with either sex. In my opinion, in a perfect world, that’d be the norm.

lefteh's avatar

@augustlan: That’s been my belief for quite some time.

augustlan's avatar

@lefteh: damn society and it’s stupid rules…it constrains human nature in good ways, I know, but in many bad ways, too!

lefteh's avatar

Agreed. Namely, constriction of sexuality.

MacBean's avatar

@augustian—”...or allsexual for lack of a better word.Pansexual!

Larssenabdo's avatar

@girlofscience, pure stereotyping. There’s no such thing as a mannerism which will tell you the orientation of the individual. This sort of misinformation perpetuates violence against gay people, because everyone thinks ‘I don’t know any!’ if they don’t know any swishers or bulldykes. Trust me: you work and live right alongside ‘em, and you don’t know unless they tell ya.

girlofscience's avatar

@Larssenabdo: I know. Ugh. I knew that was going to be misinterpreted. That really wasn’t what I meant. Sorry I cannot articulate it properly.

La_chica_gomela's avatar

All I can say is that I personally know two men who consider do not consider themselves gay, and have kissed other men (not each other). Neither were not paid, dared, or anything like that. They are both extremely liberal-minded anti-religious (in one case) and just not religious in the other, and I believe neither would not have any problem with admitting their true sexuality if they were in fact gay.
One told me that he “guess that makes him a little bi,” but that he would never have sex with a man, he was just having fun, as lefteh said.

tonedef's avatar

I wish that there were more people as comfortable with themselves as your friends, la chica gomela! :)

crunchaweezy's avatar

Homosexuality.

La_chica_gomela's avatar

Crunch, I think you’re missing a part of that sentence. You know, they’re called verbs. Maybe you’ve heard of them…

augustlan's avatar

@Macbean: Lovely! Thanks :)

tinyfaery's avatar

There is evidence that suggest male homosexuality might be the result of biology, but when it comes to female sexuality, no biological links have been found. Female sexuality appears to be fluid, changing with time and circumstance, while male sexuality appears to be more fixed. I’d say any combination of people kissing implies some sort of sexual interest; if it wasn’t enjoyable people wouldn’t do it. If the biology theory of male homosexuality is true, then two men kissing is “gayer” than two women kissing.

Did any of that make sense?

tonedef's avatar

@tinyfaery Fact check! Lesbian women have a different finger length ratio than do heterosexual women.

tinyfaery's avatar

I counter your study with this book.

You can find a study to support anything.

I have actually done the finger ratio test (in an LGBT studies class) and I have a heterosexual female ratio. And any veteran of fluther will tell you that I am a woman with a wife. Once again, personal experience trumps statistics.

@tone And please, lay off the snark. It’s totally unnecessary, unless of course your goal is to show some sort of superiority over others.

La_chica_gomela's avatar

Yeah, I’ve done the finger test too. Even though I’ve been with TimothyKinney for almost a year, and have never kissed a woman, it turns out I’m actually a lesbian. Isn’t that funny?

See the funny thing about “the finger length test” is it contends a statistical correlation, not 100% accuracy. In fact, if you read the link, it never makes any direct statements, it only says what the data “suggest”. It’s just not hard evidence.

tonedef's avatar

@Chica, NO science ever conclusively proves anything- it just indicates the statistical significance of the difference between two groups. Usually with a 95% confidence interval.

and @Tinyfaery, I hardly think that linking to a reputable scholarly journal is snarky, but that’s just my opinion. You claimed that there were no biological correlates of homosexuality in women, and I presented evidence to the contrary. And saying that you can find a study to support anything implies that no research means anything- a direct rebuttal of the piece of research that I posted would have been much more constructive to the conversation. I think it is important to recognize the difference between controlled research and anecdotes, and in the spirit of that distinction, I’ll link to the American Psychological Association’s resolution against reparative/conversion therapy, and also, some literature on satisfaction with these therapies.

tinyfaery's avatar

That has nothing to do with the question. And I was referring to the Fact Check comment, not the link.

girlofscience's avatar

Confidence intervals are not the same thing as statistical significance!

nikipedia's avatar

@tonedef: At the risk of being pedantic, I think you’re referring to a p-value < .05. A confidence interval is a different kind of statistical measure. Now I’m the snarky one, I guess. Sorry. Carry on.

@girlofscience: JINX!

Knotmyday's avatar

So, if I told some guy to kiss my butt, would that make me gayer than inviting a lipside smackeroo? Hypothetically?
I know we’re all a little gay, but is there such thing as gayer-ness? Perhaps someone has a link to a statistical chart that we can all enjoy. Hopefully one of this caliber.

tinyfaery's avatar

@knot Only if you get sexually turned on by a man kissing your butt. :)

lefteh's avatar

Hmm. I’m not straight, and that doesn’t exactly sound like a turn on to me.

Knotmyday's avatar

I’m sensitive.

AstroChuck's avatar

And I have sensitive nipples.

buster's avatar

Its pretty gay unless one of them is doing it for blow.

La_chica_gomela's avatar

lol, blow or a blow ?
;-)

breedmitch's avatar

To answer the question, “How do you feel about straight men making out with other straight men?”, I feel tingly down there. :)

pinky134's avatar

I like it…

(Well, provided that if I’m dating one I’m REALLY sure he’s straight enough.)

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