Social Question

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Do we not hear, or choose to not hear, lies and gaffes made by politicians we identify with?

Asked by SQUEEKY2 (19165points) October 27th, 2019

Another jelly has been upset that we don’t call out politicians we identify with when they say a gaffe or lie as fast as we do when Trump spouts off one.
Do we let politicians we like slide on the truth side?
To me it looks like Trump supporters let him slide, or choose to not hear when he says a gaffe or lie.

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50 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

Most people do. The hypocrisy in politics is stunning.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I naturally assume that they all lie. Then again, so do almost all people. Some more than others, but we all lie. Politicians, are human beings too.

I suppose, I personally judge someone for lying, when it can lead to people getting hurt. A lot of Trump’s lies, cause bad things to happen. Some of his lies, are just from ignorance.

Trump is really his own worst enemy. If he would just not talk so much, he wouldn’t be under the pressure he is…

mazingerz88's avatar

We elect human leaders to represent us so we don’t have to monitor them everyday so we can live our lives. When they lie and the lie was critical enough——-we do find out about them and deal with it accordingly.

Running for office is not an easy thing to do. Winning and doing the actual job is even harder. I have a lot of respect for anyone who steps up to serve. If a leader I voted for started manifesting character flaws, it would be a matter of how severe those flaws were.

Demosthenes's avatar

Yes, but this is just part of a larger trend of cognitive bias that isn’t limited to the political sphere. We tend to ignore or make excuses for someone’s flaws when they’re someone we identify with (be they a politician, an adored entertainer, a close friend or family member, etc.) while condemning the same behaviors in someone we don’t care for. The rise of tribalism has made it worse: people on our side are our “brothers” and they need to be defended at all costs and those on the other side need to be attacked, no matter how hypocritical it may be.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Nice answer there @Demosthenes .

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Agreed. We have some wise jellies, in our pond…

JLeslie's avatar

I wonder if people who are hypocritical about their own actions are also more likely to be hypocritical about politicians’ actions? I know so many people who will complain about being lied to, but then they lie themselves. Or, complain about how someone acts, and they act the same way. It’s like they have no mirror about themselves.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Correct. Both sides, are hypocrites.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I think we all tend to overlook some flaws based on overall satisfaction, or compared to whats at stake politically or socially.

Some of my liberal friends vote for LGBTQ issues only. Some of my conservative friendz vote for abortion issues only. Neither group is willing to change their votes or opinions based on anything further. Its frustrating sometimes.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^It comes down to people (on both sides, ) abandoning a large part of their own morality, for a single issue. Doesn’t seem wise, to me.

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 It probably depends on your perspective. I think a lot of single issue voters feel it is based on morality that they vote primarily on the single issue.

Pro-life people who vote for that issue probably feel it’s the moral high ground. People voting for socialized healthcare probably feels it’s the moral high ground. Same with civil rights issues (LGBTQ, equality for women, race equality, religious equality). The very religious who feel Trump will bring the serving coming off God. I think almost every one issue voter feels moral high ground except the ones who vote because of concern for their own pocket book, but even they at the lower to mid incomes might argue that providing for themselves and family is a moral high ground.

Sagacious's avatar

Everyone is unique so your attempt to put everyone into one cubby is not working.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@JLeslie . What about those who don’t vote? I don’t vote, but I don’t consider myself on some ethical high ground. I just refuse to play this bullshit game…

Maybe that sounds self righteous. But, I’m not on any high ground trip. I have opinions, that I think I take just as seriously, as voters. I just protest the process…

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Not voting puts you in one of the following camps to most people: being perceived as either apathetic, wasting your vote, or religious and believing it doesn’t matter because God is in control anyway. It won’t be perceived as a message against the system, it might be perceived as a message that you didn’t like any of the candidates. It’s a bigger message if you actually vote for some offices, but not all. Then it looks more purposeful that you didn’t like any candidates for a certain office. If you hate Trump, and you don’t vote, you help him get elected. I realize in your state your vote might not count much, but even if you just help the popular vote, the bigger that number it is the more of a message it carries at least to the political parties.

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 You disagree that most people see it that way?

MrGrimm888's avatar

I diagreee, with a lot of wh as the th he sheep do. Judge me as you will, for that. Sheep…..

JLeslie's avatar

^^No judgement. I’m just talking about how people perceive it, not your intentions or how you think about it yourself.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm Let me ask you this, if you are so against the GOP, which you’ve made very clear, why wouldnt you want to add your vote to get them out?

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Because then. I would be legitimizing the system. Instead of half the threads on Fluther being about Trump, many would be about Hillary.

And as I have tried (with ZERO success,) to convey, I’m not a Democrat, or liberal. So. It’s not like I’d be “voting for ‘my’ team.”

I have a lot of radical opinions, about how America, should be ran. Almost nobody seems to share those opinions. I have ZERO representation, from pretty much any politician.

And as I’ve stated before, voting, is just giving American people the illusion of some sort of control. But, I think most voters, have good intentions. So. I don’t constantly heckle them. They are trying to make a difference. They just don’t understand that THEY are the main instrument, of the uber wealthy, sculpting the country into their own ideal situation.

Even if my ideal candidate won the position of POTUS, they would be stymied by the rest of the government, in making the changes I feel should be made.

I don’t even think there should be just 1 POTUS. I think there should be 3. The branches of the government, were supposed to balance, and check each other, so that one agenda could not have so much power. But that isn’t how things work.

I won’t bore anyone, with how I think things should be, any longer. The founding fathers, had great ideas. But it’s all been ruined.

If there is a revolution, then I will participate. But, that doesn’t mean that I will be “right.” I’m smart enough to know that I could be greatly mistaken, in my opinions.

I don’t vote, mainly out of protest of the current system. But I also don’t vote, because I am not a “normal person.” An abnormal person shouldn’t necessarily have control over the way things work either…

Meanwhile, let the sheep vote.
I concede, that my not voting, makes the country worse,IMO. But who am I, to dictate how the country works?

I think that my ideas for how America should be, are probably unrealistic, at this time. Humans cannot get along, or work together. They can’t coexist.

Like I’ve said before, I don’t belong here. Not on this planet, at this time… You should be happy that I don’t vote…

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Don’t worry ‘bout a thing @MrGrimm888!

Bozo will have his way while you are apathetic !

He wants to be a loser !

Ask him!

MrGrimm888's avatar

I’m not apathetic. Thats the problem.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

OKAY F U C K I N G

Vote—— > don’t be apathetic !

You don’t vote you are apathetic !

Let me repeat myself !

VOTE

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Disagree.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

*A P AT H E T I C ! *
And “disagree” is a COP OUT !

Tropical_Willie's avatar

You can not vote and get
.

.
.

“Shit for Brains ” in as President AGAIN !

APATHETIC

Tropical_Willie's avatar

You’re going tell me SHIT FOR BRAINS is your HERO

He has all the votes to be re-elected when you don’t vote !

MrGrimm888's avatar

I have NEVER said Trump is my hero…

I respect your opinion. I simply disagree. But I won’t play the game/illusion of democracy.

Take that as you will…

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Move to Russia they don’t have to vote !

But their vote is counted anyway !!

MrGrimm888's avatar

^I’m sorry that you’re mad at me, for a personal decision. I don’t judge you, on yours….

Tropical_Willie's avatar

It’s your choice but you love Trump !

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tropical I tend to agree voting is important but its not a requirement, after all. And we all know he cant stand Trump, come on now. Dont bully the man, convince him!

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Works for no one – - – > an apathetic Trump LOVER !!@

Don’t vote – - -> don’t complain !

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 The thing is, you do live in America, and changing the system is a slow process, if it will happen at all, but in the meantime you have to work within the system to have any influence.

Imagine if 90% of the population felt like you and didn’t vote. Do you think the system would change the better? Do you think we will have better politicians representing us? It’s probably the opposite. 10% of the people would be deciding for us who is in charge.

The electoral college sucks in so many ways, but still, overall, a poor person’s vote equals a rich persons vote. A young person’s vote equals an old person’s vote.

When a country sucks really badly usually more people vote to influence the change, not the opposite.

I understand your frustration, but you hate Trump so much that your not voting makes no sense to me. If you were apathetic about politics altogether then I can understand not voting. I didn’t start voting until the Bush Gore run for president. Before that I wasn’t interested in politics. I wouldn’t say I was totally apathetic, but I was comfortable and not really thinking about the big picture. You do think about those things so I don’t understand you not voting. I do understand not having a candidate you feel great about, but you can’t control who runs for office, unless you are the one running.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^it’s actually the exact opposite of what you said. If nobody voted, like me, out of protest, the system would be forced to change. Imagine if not one person voted, in 2020? The system would be forced to be redesigned. If everyone stopped playing the game, there would be no game.
I can bet the house, that you vote Bernie, Warren, or Biden, you will see Trump back in office in 2020. The liberals, Democrats, and most centrists, are too scattered. Trump’s base, is rock solid. No matter what he does.

The dems, have no united front, or plan. There’s going to be a repeat, of 2016. Except Trump may actually win the popular vote too. Liberals, will vote for maybe 4 candidates. Trump’s base, will all vote for him. And then, the congressional/house voting will be all over the place.

The result, will be a repeat of what we have now. A dictatorship. A tyrant, who is not checked/balanced, by the other branches of the government…

They have every right to impeach Trump NOW. But it won’t be successful. As far as removing him from office.

Go ahead and vote for anyone but Trump. And see what happens.

The sad truth, is that a third of our country wants him running the show. For mostly the same reasons.

Biden, should be removed from running. Bernie is too old. The other democratic candidates, are too far left, to gain national support. Trump will be POTUS again, whether he’s the worst or not. And the SCOTUS, will become alt-right. Which will further change the country, in a white/Christian direction.

Which will fuck the US , and the world up. I am just being realistic. And all who vote, will make this possible. Wake up. America is evolving into something like the Middle East.
Meanwhile China, and Russia, are gaining ground. America, is done for. All empires eventually fall. This is the beginning. Not because Trump. Because of it’s population of sheep… And that’s exactly what the uber wealthy, who truly run this country, want. Those elites, will simply get richer. The poor, and aspiring middle class, have already lost.

And ironically, the third of our country that supports Trump, will be hit hardest by the changes. But. There won’t be abortions, or gay marriage, or more brown people. That’s what they want. That’s temporarily, what they’ll get.

Europe, is in the same situation. They can fight, all they want to, but world, is changing. Both the US, and Europe, will be culturally different, in 100 years. I have no idea what will happen, when sea level rises 25 feet, in the same time span. No more Miami. No more Houston. A LOT of bad shit, is about to hit the fan.

And you all, are concerned about voting. What a fucking joke…

When all coastal cities, in the world, are gone, and the population goes over 9 billion. We’ll see how important voting was…

Don’t call ME out, for ignorance. You fools aren’t looking at the big picture. And those who are, can vote, all they want. There are not enough of you, to matter.

In 2016, I made money. And if I didn’t, the scenario wouldn’t have changed. But my power, and water, are still running.

In 50 years, or so, my city will be underwater. But you sheep think voting for the lesser of two evils, is important. Yeah. I’m naive. I can’t complain. Because I don’t vote. Your comments, are laughable. If you really THINK, you’d get it. You are empowering the ones who will destroy our planet. Congratulations… I’m not contributing. I want all of you voters, to think about this, as the world floods, the air becomes toxic, and you can’t stand outside for very long, because the ozone is depleted.

THINK, about the world our children will inherit. Then THINK about how important abortions, and other political issues really mattered… But don’t think about me. I’ll be dead, or thriving living out of my canoe, and paddling the remaining coastal cities, taking what I want…

And voting, will be the last thing on my mind…

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm While I disagree, I respect your reasoning.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Thank you… I won’t rant about it any longer…

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm I thought your explanation was interesting, and probably more true than people would want to admit.

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 The problem is not everyone will stop voting.

Funny, I say that everyone needs to quit healthcare insurance so the industry will have to lower their prices. Not buying the insurance is basically the same thing you are saying about not voting. I too believe in the power of the people. but, it’s not really the same, because the health insurance has to do with market forces, while political office costs nothing for the voter, and so always there will be people who will vote, and those people will have the power then.

It’s very hard to fix what you want to fix.

Is there any candidate you like in the field now? Voting for them in the primary, or doing a write in at least gets your vote heard.

I really don’t care if people don’t vote if they are disinterested. I have never been one to encourage mindless voting, but you are not mindless. You are actually quite opinionated and obviously frustrated.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Again, it isn’t apathetic thinking, that drives me.

JLeslie's avatar

Again, I don’t think it is, I never did.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I like E. Warren. If I voted, I would vote for her. But, I don’t take part in the game.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Isn’t she still in the race for the Dem’s top spot??^^

MrGrimm888's avatar

I think so. I think she’d kick Trump’s ass, in the debate. She doesn’t tolerate bullshit, and she knows what she’s doing. She’s my favorite, of the candidates.
She did an interview on Real Time, with BM. She seems intelligent, and assertive. I think she’d be a good match up, against Trump.

The dems will need someone who can put Trump, in his place. Biden would have been a good candidate, but I already have opined, that he should be disqualified.

Hillary could have killed him in the debates too, but she was too conservative, with him. She could have gone hard on him, but, she didn’t take him seriously.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

My favourite is Warren, and she should take Corteze <if I spelled that right as her running mate.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I think she’s the one. Running mate is important, but she alone ,IMO, could get the job.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I agree, and the Rep/cons are terrified of Cortez as well good combo.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Cotrtez, is to far left, for the time.

JLeslie's avatar

Not Cortez for multiple reasons.

Democrats need swing state and southern candidates. We need to get the votes in those states. We need candidates that speak their language. I think the Midwest Catholic is the big swing vote. Biden I guess talks their language, I think so does Buttegieg. I don’t know if Warren appeals to them. It doesn’t have to be the top of the ticket, but part of the ticket needs to strongly appeal to those people I think.

Florida is important, and maybe a Hispanic candidate helps to get out the Latin vote in Florida, but keep in mind Cubans are mostly republicans and terrified of socialism and communism. The Cubans are a big part of Florida’s Hispanic population, although we have people from many parts of Latin America. The Cubans pretty much all have citizenship, and so do the Puerto Rican’s, but the other groups of Hispanics in the state have lower percentages of citizens, so when you look at percentage of Hispanics in a state, you need to be aware that it might not be Hispanic voters. No matter what the number is still high in Florida, don’t get me wrong.

I’m still completely undecided who I like best. I believe in voting for who you like best in primaries, not voting based on some strategy. Plus, I don’t think most Democrats guess well at who will capture the independents and who will inspire people to get out and vote.

And, by the way, as much as I think it’s important to report long lines to vote and unfair practices that stop people from getting to vote, in my experience voting usually is not very long lines, and most people get to vote with no problems, and I think we need to report that too. Only reporting negatives probably discourages people from making the effort to vote.

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