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Demosthenes's avatar

Roe v. Wade has been overturned. What repercussions do you think there will be?

Asked by Demosthenes (13962points) 1 month ago

I asked a question about whether Roe v. Wade would be overturned back in 2018 and most of you said you didn’t know or expected there to be attempts to do so, at most. But the day has finally come.

One repercussion I expect is that we will be seeing more people traveling to California and other states to obtain an abortion (it has already begun in the states around Texas). I also think we will now see attempts at a nationwide ban.

Looks like the draft leak was 100% accurate, which explains why they were so pissed about it. Who wants to bet there will soon be a leaked draft of a decision overturning Obergefell?

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60 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

Oh, make no mistake, this is just the beginning:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWBkUfKUAAAOb82?format=jpg&name=large
Gay Marriage, Contraception, even the unconstitutionality of anti-sodomy laws, are all next.
And who knows how much more.

Demosthenes's avatar

@ragingloli I worry you may be correct. There was a time not too long ago when those who said Roe would be overturned were called “alarmist”. I guess what we could see is a moral “Balkanization” of the U.S. In California you’ll be able to get abortions and gay marriages and do as much anal as you want, but cross into Texas and you’re in Handmaid’s Tale. The old American slogan of “I got mine, so screw everyone else” is seeming more and more relevant…

Blackwater_Park's avatar

I don’t see that, but I must admit I did not see this happening either.

jca2's avatar

New York state has protections in place, thankfully. https://pix11.com/news/fight-back-new-laws-protect-abortion-rights-in-new-york/

Still, I feel for people from other states where abortion is now illegal, and who can’t afford to take a trip to another state to get this done.

I feel like the country is going backwards – women are second class citizens, once again.

Gay marriage and other things that were put in place by previous Supreme Court decisions are next up.

Demosthenes's avatar

“Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh all wrote their own concurring opinions. In his concurrence, Thomas wrote that the court should now “reconsider” its decisions that found a right to contraception, sex between consenting adult men, and same-sex marriage — and “correct the error” made in cases like “Griswold, Lawerence and Obergefell.”

From a Salon article.

jca2's avatar

All of those things are now up for grabs, depending on the political climate, and will impact so many people.

gondwanalon's avatar

It’s still leagal to kill your unborn baby in Washington State.

jca2's avatar

@gondwanalon And a bunch of other states, as it should be.

gorillapaws's avatar

I wonder how many women will die because they need a D&C following a miscarriage and providers will be too nervous to perform it and risk imprisonment or at the least, having to fight an expensive legal battle? @gondwanalon I hope no-one you love.

kritiper's avatar

No more safe, legal abortions, except in states where they are allowed. Every other place will see a surge in unsafe, illegal abortions.

gondwanalon's avatar

Looks like the Supreme Court should have just left Roe V Wade alone even though it is un constructional. People will continue to kill unborn babies no matter what the law says or the risks.

HP's avatar

Just as they always have. It’s now about whether or not you can get a bus ticket.

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Blackwater_Park's avatar

Based on the last two years, I think it’s likely we’ll see some form of rioting.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I will straight up punch any dumb fucking man that bitches about having to wear a condom.

Why should the responsibility always fall on the woman to take something that can cause weight gain, mood issues, whatever. Oh but God forbid you gotta wear some rubber for 5 mins. ” It’s uncomfortable”

Go.
Fuck.
Your.
Self.

The only way these fuckers will listen is if it starts to actually affect them. Start enforcing child support and force them to pay, start holding these assholes responsible.

The repercussions need to be: men can’t get away with being dead beat assholes anymore.

The real repercussions will be more illegal abortions and more deaths of women who do unsafe abortions because y’know, they are unsafe.

canidmajor's avatar

@SergeantQueen The haters of Roe don’t need condoms. They can make sure that their women will always have access to safe abortions. That’s how it works in the real world. A ban on legal, safe abortion serves a dual purpose. It keeps communities of color and ethnic difference impoverished, which benefits corporations, and has an added bonus of sterilizing the “undesirables” by either maiming or killing them. People exhausted and hungry don’t make demands (Mao had that right) and really, another dead poor woman? The people making these proclamations just consider that a plus.

Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

Covid Vax should be mandatory now. My body my choice applies to everyone or no goddam one. Don’t like it, suck it up.

gondwanalon's avatar

@jca2 Our Supreme Court Justices are being threatened with murder you think that I’m trying to stir things up when I hope no one is injured or killed. Really?

https://www.newsweek.com/supreme-court-justices-threatened-murder-roe-v-wade-overturned-1707869

hat's avatar

@gondwanalon: “Our Supreme Court Justices are being threatened with murder”

As they should.

(or anyone who want to control my daughter’s uterus)

I think it’s a fair and uncontroversial statement to say that anyone who is responsible for this needs to end.

canidmajor's avatar

You know what, @gondwanalon, those justices have threatened million of women with murder, in a much realer sense. I have no fucking sympathy.

gondwanalon's avatar

I feel sorry for people who have such hatred. I hope that you start to feel better soon. Good health to you.

Citizens in each State now decide whether or not to legalize abortion. Sounds better to me to give that power to the people living in each State, not let 9 unelected justices decide.
.

canidmajor's avatar

Well, your paternalistic condescension aside, unless you are so willfully and grossly ignorant that you have missed all the discussion of the past few months, you know that a large number of the states will be thrilled to make women bear the brunt of these barbaric decisions by limiting and or withdrawing access to some basic health care. But that won’t affect you, will it. How easy for you to take this stance.

gondwanalon's avatar

Oh so now the name calling beings.
You know nothing about me.

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Nomore_Tantrums's avatar

Just saw this meme on Facebook, so true. “Happy Father’s Day to all of the soon to be father’s in Red States who don’t want kids. If you think gas prices are high wait until you have paid 18 years of child support over a one night stand!” LMAO – thoughts and prayers Sparky!

Brian1946's avatar

@gondwanalon

“Citizens in each State now decide whether or not to legalize abortion. Sounds better to me to give that power to the people living in each State, not let 9 unelected justices decide.”

It’s better to give that power to the individual woman, NOT the state or anyone but her.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

What’s next gay rights, transgender rights?

In Texas it’s illegal for a woman to leave the state and get an abortion and return, she can be charged with murder.
In Louisiana it’s illegal to get an abortion even in cases of Rape,or incest.
Women lost big to the Republican idiots, I just pray they remember that on election day.

gondwanalon's avatar

@Brian1946 OK give the power to have to women to have an early abortion. That’s OK with me. But I’m not the one making the laws. Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

SergeantQueen's avatar

@Squeeky I’d have to find the article but supposedly that Clarence fucker said something about taking action on gay marriage and contraception on the federal level but I honestly don’t know how.

SergeantQueen's avatar

@ragingloli Matt Walsh is one dumb ass bitch

jca2's avatar

A friend posted this hypothetical scenario conversation on Facebook:

Pro Lifer: Well the mother should just give the baby up for adoption if she doesn’t want the baby
Me: So who will adopt the baby?
PL: I don’t know there’s lots of couples who want to adopt
Me: Do you know any couple who is waiting to adopt?
PL: Um well not personally but like I know there’s lots of people waiting to adopt.
Me: Do you know what a domestic adoption costs?
PL: I don’t know. $15,000 maybe?
Me: The average cost of domestic adoption in the United States is $70,000 if you go through a private agency.
PL: Oh I didn’t realize it was that much
Me: Yep it’s really expensive. It can be more if you want a newborn straight from the hospital. Up to $120,000.
PL: Well all life is precious.
Me: it really is. I’ve adopted through foster care and am currently a licensed foster parent. Would you be interested in becoming a foster parent yourself?
PL: Oh no I couldn’t do it.
Me: Why not?
PL: It would just be too much for me right now.
Me: Why is that?
PL: It would be too hard to handle all the issues that came with it. I’ve heard horror stories.
Me: Yep it can be extremely difficult. But what if I told you that you were required by law to become a foster parent?
PL: What?
Me: What if you had to become a foster parent by law?
PL: They would never do that. That would never happen.
Me: Well, if a woman is forced to bear a child she doesn’t want, and she goes ahead and has that child, someone has to care for the child either through adoption or foster care. You have to do one of those two things.
PL: But I don’t want any more kids.
Me: So you don’t want someone forcing you to have a child in your home that you don’t want or aren’t able to care for?
PL: No, that’s not my job to raise someone else’s child.
There it is, folks. Have the baby, but we don’t want anything to do with it afterwards.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That’s just it all life is precious until it’s born.
The pro lifers are a voice for the unborn once here they couldn’t give a shit.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I’m pro-choice to start with just so you don’t get me wrong. This idea that pro-lifers don’t care about babies once they’re born is bullshit. Somewhere in the range of 70% of babies born and put up for adoption are adopted in the first month. There may be some pro-lifers who don’t care but to assume they all don’t is absurd. Blanket statements like that make the person saying it lose credibility. That’s certainly no argument to use against pro-lifers. The vast majority really do care, a lot.

gorillapaws's avatar

@Blackwater_Park “This idea that pro-lifers don’t care about babies once they’re born is bullshit”

Why are the infant mortality rates so much higher in states that have banned abortion? If life truly was as precious as they claim, they’d have the best healthcare for mothers and babies, not the worst. This is about shame and control, not about life.

ragingloli's avatar

There have been counter protesters at pro-choice demonstrations holding up signs with “We will adopt your baby”.
Ok. Why have they not already done that? Not like there is a shortage of orphans right now.
It is because their argument is disingenious.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

It’s not so much about shame and control as it is about going on feelings over logic and data. I’d bet that the reason infant mortality is higher has more to do with the fact that a good percentage of the difference comes from babies that have complications and probably should have been aborted. I know pro-lifers and I know them well. They’re emotional beings.
I also keep hearing that pro-lifers don’t want to adopt but where is the data behind that? Clearly plenty do adopt.

jca2's avatar

@Blackwater_Park: The majority of people in the country who are parents have had their own (biological) c hildren. Imagine if just 10% of those people adopted children?

Blackwater_Park's avatar

There is no shortage of demand for adoption. The number of families wanting to adopt outnumbers available children by like 30 to 1. This is an unwinnable argument that pro-lifers won’t adopt. They most certainly will. This is no way to go about convincing people that abortion needs to remain legal.

jca2's avatar

The majority of children available for adoption are older children and the majority of people looking to adopt want to adopt babies (preferably newborns) who are not fucked up yet by the foster care system, @Blackwater_Park. That’s why affluent people will pay tens of thousands of dollars to adopt a newborn from a private adoption agency..

jca2's avatar

New York State Adoption, Foster Care and CPS Statistics:

https://ocfs.ny.gov/main/reports/maps/defaultAgg.asp

Blackwater_Park's avatar

But that does not change the fact that the argument is that pro-lifers don’t want to adopt. They do. Also, older children are generally orphans for other reasons than they were unwanted as infants. That really does not factor into this.

Honestly, pro-choice advocates need to stop trying to cast pro-lifers as horrible people. They’re not, they just are thinking emotionally, out of inexperience or by proxy from religious zealots.

jca2's avatar

@Blackwater_Park I’m not saying or implying that pro-lifers are horrible people. I’m saying that if it’s true that pro-lifers are into adoption, then the majority of them should be opening their homes to foster children and adopting them.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@jca2 Whose to say they’re not though? I don’t think there is any reliable data that shows that they are not as a group. Again, That whole argument about pro-lifers not caring after the child is born just does not hold water and we need to stop making it. It’s a cheap shot and It really does make pro-choice advocates look bad. I cringe when I hear it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Blackwater_Park Then prove it that they do care after the child is born.
From what I see ,I get the feeling that after the kid is born it is someone else’s problem.

jca2's avatar

@Blackwater_Park: Because like I said, if even a small percentage of pro-life parents adopted children that are in Foster Care, there would be no children in the Foster Care system.

As far as people saying pro-lifers don’t care about after the child is born, that’s because Conservatives (who are usually pro-lifers) are for cutting social programs – cutting public assistance, closing shelters, closing mental health clinics, cutting programs that help alleviate foster care, cutting funding to social programs, and cutting taxes (which pay for all of the above).

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Ok, prove to me they don’t. It’s an absurd assertion.

@jca2 So why exactly do conservatives want to make deep cuts like this? Are they for closing shelters and mental health clinics and other things you say? I don’t see it the same. What I see are unintended consequences behind demanding lower taxes. Right-wing religious institutions have setup networks of those sort of things across the south. A lot of it is just feel good outreach but the fact remains that to equate pro-lifers with not caring after the baby is born does not hold water. It’s not a winnable argument because it’s just a baseless insult and a tactic to dehumanize the enemy here. It’s a trap you should not let yourself fall into.

gorillapaws's avatar

@Blackwater_Park “I’d bet that the reason infant mortality is higher has more to do with the fact that a good percentage of the difference comes from babies that have complications and probably should have been aborted.”

Or they’re not making investments in healthcare spending… Those states are near the bottom in terms of healthcare dollars spent per capita, and the infants dying are way more likely to be poor—which wouldn’t be a factor if it was emotion-based as you’re asserting.

This is about budgetary priorities. Conservatives hate investing tax dollars into things like health services for the lower and middle classes. Those policies have a direct impact on metrics like infant mortality.

Other examples one would expect from a society that cares deeply for it’s infants would be to promote comprehensive sex education and freely distribute contraception to its people—especially the young. We don’t see this in these states.

Demosthenes's avatar

In either case, it’s a fairly pointless thing to debate as “caring about children” is something virtually everyone is going to claim to do. Banning books is done in the name of “caring about children”. If the question is whether the pro-life movement benefits children and families, that’s different than arguing about whether individuals who oppose abortion “care about children”. The same thing is done on the other side when those who support abortion rights are said to “love killing babies”.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@Demosthenes Yup, exactly the same thing. In the same vein of:

“I heard a rumor pro-choicers have a secret cult and actually eat babies.”

“I also heard a rumor that pro-lifers are just trying to subjugate women to keep them barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen. Oh, they’re racist and want to bring back slavery too.”

the things people say to argue a position….

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Your answer was a complete deflection,I asked you to prove it,so you just deflected at me.
Can you prove they do care after the kid is born, or are you just going to deflect?

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 For crying out loud, how does one go about proving or disproving such a subjective, immeasurable thing. It’s a baseless insult and a petty tactic which is in itself a deflection. I’m not deflecting you, I’m calling bullshit here. If it’s not bullshit, you made the accusation so the onus is on you to prove it. Not me. So prove to me and back up this accusation that pro-lifers don’t care about babies after they’re born. You can just stop now to save yourself time because you can’t.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Blackwater_Park BUT you can’t prove that they do.
Lack of health care in the states shut down by Rep/cons is one way to prove that they do not care.
Affordable daycare is another.
And I am calling your bullshit because you can’t prove even a little that do once the kid is born.
Look even I look at Abortion as a form of birth control isn’t really the way to go,BUT health, incest, rape I am 1000000000% for it and disagree if you want .
It’s not baseless because you simply can not prove that pro lifers care after the kid is born.
Or else there would be a ton of programs to help the new born and Mothers out.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 of course I can’t. I just told you why you can’t either. That’s why the whole argument is bullshit. You keep going like you can somehow make logical sense out of this when there is nothing to support your claims. Sorry.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I just did!
There would be a ton of programs supporting new Borns and the mother’s there isn’t thus they only care for the unborn once here not their problem.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 No, not really. You would have to assume that healthcare reforms get shot down fundamentally from not caring but that’s not really why. They get shot down because A: insurance and pharma companies have a powerful lobby against such reforms and B:a good number people believe the proposed reforms would be too expensive and unsustainable. Does not matter if it’s true or not, that’s what they believe. It’s not because they “don’t care.” The entire pro-life base is pro-life because they do care, they see it as murder, think it’s wrong and don’t want dead babies. Again, does not matter if they’re right or not. I hate that I have to explain this like you’re a child. The argument that they don’t care does not hold water. You can make the argument that they’re not thinking past their own emotions on this.

So why even try to make the argument that they don’t? It’s not to win them over is it? It’s not to try to get them to understand why you think they’re wrong. It’s to make you feel better about turning people who see things differently into enemies. It’s so you don’t have to think any further on why they think what they do other than “they’re bad.” Listen, I’m pro-choice but I can’t in good conscience get on board with that narrative because it’s simply absurd. I’ll go a step further, it’s wrong, and it makes the people who use it look really bad. It’s certainly not helping.

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