The Creation Museum in Kentucky - a memorial or a scientific reminder of the power of Dark Ages belief systems - What does the 'museum' mean to you?

It’s called propaghanda and not a museum…

It means that I truly live in a nation of imbeciles.

I consider myself to be a devout Christian although I am not a fanatic. The museum sounds a bit over the top to me. I must admit I haven’t visited it even though I live near Lexington. It really doesn’t seem that interesting to me. I think the story of Genesis can be a parallel for evolution. I don’t think the two stories are mutually exclusive. All you have to do is imagine a “Genesis day” as being a geologic period of time instead of literally one day.

I don’t know what to think of the museum. I’ve never been. Though I’m not sure how it could be called propaganda when there are so many more “billions of years” museums out there. Who do you suppose frequents this museum? Scientists who are on the verge of deciding which way to go? Or people who believe in creation?

I guess I’m just not sure where all the hoopla and zomgdness is about it.

Where is your live and let live? I guess we should also imprison the guy with the “end of the world is near” signs on his chest just because he’s different.

I think the museum is a bit propagandic but I don’t call those people “imbeciles”.

Is propagandic a word?

@timeand_distance way to be an insulting bitch… I kid, I kid.

Great answer.

yeah, yeah, i know.

@madcapper – Therefore I’ve used the quotes for the term ‘museum’ which existence is a fact and a result of human psychology.

@NaturalMineralWater – Yes, I believe in live and let live. Creationists can visit the ‘museum’. We have to draw the line, though, when supporters of dark ages belief systems attempt to mess with the science curriculum of public schools. This isn’t acceptable to me and I will fight this with the power of my words.

@mattbrowne ok.. not sure how you went from museum to messing with schools… but sure, I agree with that. You pretty much know what you’re gonna get with a public school.. if you don’t want your kids in it, it’s fairly easy to put them into a different one that teaches what you want taught.

I had no trouble differentiating between things that were taught and things I believed in public school.

@NaturalMineralWater – The same people who built the museum are trying to change the biology curriculum. This is unacceptable. Creationism is not a branch of science, except maybe for a study about human psychology. Creationism has nothing to do with biology.

@mattbrowne Sure, I agree that it’s unacceptable. I just don’t see how the museum is in any way related to your “cause”. It’s just separation of church and state.. not separation of church and society.

@NaturalMineralWater – My cause as you put it is using the “museum” as a dire warning what human minds are capable of doing: burning witches because of superstition, executing Giordano Bruno because of “heresy”, locking up Galileo Galilei because he promoted enlightenment. So even if creationists eventually come to their senses and close down this center of stupidity, society should keep it as a memorial instead of tearing it down.

I just watched Religulous tonight, and was appalled by that museum. Also by the ‘Holy Land Experience’, a freakin’ theme park in Florida! Jesus wept, indeed.

Honestly, I don’t see the big deal.
It’s like Disneyland for biblical literalists.

Sure, it is pretty ridiculous to see dinosaur and human children playing by the same stream. But is it any more ridiculous than the Star Trek Experience where you get to encounter Klingons?

Where do Trekkies fit into your condemnation of Dark Age belief systems?

Has anyone actually been to the museum? I understand they had expansion plans. That may be more frightening than its existence in the first place… I understand the robotic dinosaurs are pretty cool.

@steve6, maybe we should arrange a field trip to the museum and report back

OK, just be sure to get a permission slip from your parents. It’s only 100 miles or so from my house.

@augustlan – We need to understand how these people tick, what’s really going on in their mind. The museum is actually a great opportunity to fully expose the gross ignorance and superstition of creationism and “intelligent” design. I live in Europe and haven’t been to Kentucky recently. But I would certainly take a look. Creationism is less present in Europe, but sadly it’s also gaining some momentum. There is something about it that some people feel appealing. Maybe they are scared of the complexities of the modern world. I’m a Christian by the way and do believe in God. But I’m also a scientist and I think enlightenment is one of the greatest achievements of homo sapiens so far.

There are museums devoted to some ridiculous things that we aren’t shutting down/cutting off their freedom of speech, why start here? I don’t agree with it at all, but as long as it is not publicly/governmentally funded I really don’t care what they waste the money it takes to keep the place running on.

@fireside – Yes, far more ridiculous to say the least. Star Trek ponders the future (and not the past) and plays with ideas using human imagination. Think of Star Trek as a thought experiment. What if? Most Trekkies believe in science and enlightenment. I respect the creationist belief and do not condemn the people in choosing their belief system. My condemnation is about specific actions they take. The same people promoting this “museum” are trying to chance the biology curricula. They succeeded in Kansas, but later failed. If they succeed on a larger scale the whole future of human beings on planet Earth are at risk. We can’t accommodate 9 billion people on our small planet without advanced science and technology. If creationists remain a small superstitious minority with little influence there’s no problem. But consider what might happen if Sarah Palin had become Vice President. She wanted to allow to teach creationism in biology classes, for crying out loud. Brainwashing our kids that way means the next generation will be totally different from today.

@steve6, it’s about 60 miles from me.

It probably does get tax exempt status. I don’t agree that all people who believe in the creation story are idiots. There are a lot of doctors and engineers, etc. that go to my church and even farmers who are the salt of the earth. If you hate these people then you are counting out the best humans I know and the people that make this civilization work.

Oh, ok. So people who memorize Klingon and buy their own Federation jumpsuits are pondering the future. Society probably rests on their shoulders then, right?

Wouldn’t it be more likely to assume that there will always be “true believers” in any group?
Like you said, they tried to change things and failed. I really doubt that the existence of a theme park aimed at any sub-culture is going to effect government policy.

Maybe what we should do away with are lobbyists, not creationists?
Seems like more of a flaw in the political system than in anyone’s belief system.

@AlfredaPrufrock 60 miles in what direction?

I just looked at the website for the place…

again, freedom of speech and all that, it’s not my job to censor or shut them down. I don’t care if you believe in the creation story. The only thing that alarms me is this:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/products/dvd/global-warming-dvd and this: http://www.answersingenesis.org/.

When they argue over when the earth was created, it doesn’t affect my day to day life…when someone is trying to work against scientists who are trying to combat the global warming issue. That does affect my life and that is when I get frustrated.

@steve6, South. Lou-a-vull

They even have a dinosaur with a saddle on it. No fun, Religulous….

@steve6 – No, of course many of them are not stupid, despite the fact that some of the content of the “museum” is stupid. As you mentioned most of them including the engineers and doctors are probably harmless and they enjoy the symbols and metaphors expressed in the bible (as do I by the way). Most of the people you mentioned do not become activists or fanatics. It’s this latter group I take issue with as explained earlier. Creationism doesn’t belong in biology classes. And by no means do I hate the people. Sorry if I created this impression. I don’t hate any people (except for murderers perhaps). I might disagree with their views, but I might still like them.

@AlfredaPrufrock I live in Clark County, KY (southwest of Winchester). I used to live near Lyndon (Louisville) near R-Place Pub by the Shelby Campus. My sister lives off Taylorsville Road. It’s a small world after all.

@mattbrowne

You might find this thread interesting too…

@fireside – Some Trekkies are more concerned with the sub-culture and yes, many of them might not really ponder the future. They think Klingon dresses are cool while others think Paris Hilton is cool. Which is fine. But many Star Trek fans go deeper than that. What if teleportation worked? Quantum entanglement works at superluminal speeds.

@mattbrowne GA

@TaoSan – Thanks for the link. Why is Creation Science banned from schools and Evolution theory is thought as the only truth of origin? Why the bias?

Why not teach both? Because one of them is not science. We can teach controversial issues about evolution like gradualism versus a punctuated equilibrium.

We can’t teach both “the Earth is flat” and “the Sun revolves around it” and the teachings of Galilei. We can teach about various competing theories of dark matter. But we can’t teach dark matter is a potion created by Harry Potter.

Sarah Palin might want to teach both. I don’t.

Exactly my point. It doesn’t get interesting until about the 12th or 15th quip or so….

@mattbrowne – I agree. In all sub-cultures, there are some people who do stupid things and some people who do smart things. But this place is just a building that was most likely funded with private money. That’s capitalism.

Yes, there is a point to protecting our school curriculum. In fact, we haven’t done nearly enough to keep apace with the rest of the world in both Science and Math. Is the lack of a focus on Math a reflection of any religious beliefs?

If we believe in the free market economy, then should the diversity of views be applauded? Again, it goes down to governmental flaws that would allow lobbyists to change school policy. There are wide variety of ridiculous efforts to lobby the government for outrageous things.

How about this group?
Alliance for the Separation of School and State
“Our goal is the end of federal, state, and local involvement with schooling. We believe government has no role in financing, operating, or defining schooling, or even compelling attendance.”

What about those who want our children to learn in more than one language?
How outrageous is that in an English speaking country? (being facetious here)
National Association for Bilingual Education
“Promoting educational excellence and equity through bilingual education, the National Association for Bilingual Education (NABE) is the only national organization exclusively concerned with the education of language-minority students in American schools.”

Or Immigration Control in “The Great Melting Pot”?
American Immigration Control Foundation
“Founded in 1983, AIC Foundation has become a prominent national voice for immigration control. Representing many different ethnic groups and backgrounds, AIC Foundation supporters have a deep commitment to preserving our common heritage as Americans, and to helping AIC Foundation educate our fellow citizens on the disastrous effects of uncontrolled immigration.”

Americans for Tax Reform
“ATR opposes all tax increases as a matter of principle. We believe in a system in which taxes are simpler, fairer, flatter, more visible and lower than they are today. The government’s power to control one’s life derives from its power to tax. We believe that power should be minimized.”
————-
It’s a governmental problem, not a religious one. And there are controls built into the system to prevent people from abusing their power by espousing one point of view. But banishing points of view because they are different from ours is antithetical to the principles our country was founded upon, should we change our principles?

@fireside – I think the lack of a focus on math has also to do with kids losing the ability for delayed gratification. Math is hard at first, the fun part comes later. Because of the severity of the resource and energy and climate crisis we really have to realize “No math, no future”. Math is the foundation of all advanced science and engineering. Without all of that, the Earth can perhaps accommodate a few hundred million people, but not 6.7 or let alone 9 billion people. Just take the fertilizer part. How will we deal with this once oil costs $200 a barrel? Will society change and consume less meat because it’s so resource intensive? What about the protein supply based on fish? Climate change does not only mean more extreme weather but also significant changes for the food chain. There are many complex issues. Therefore education is so key. We need kids who admire Einstein instead of Paris Hilton.

And I think it’s very important for kids to learn one foreign language. It changes how kids see the world. It enriches their lives. It totally worth the effort.

@mattbrowne – so what you seem to be saying, is that this superficiality and desire or willingness to get caught up in the distractions and to ignore or disregard the deeper meanings to life and its challenges is inherent in our culture.

This somewhat reflects the Joe Klein quote that Jiminez posted earler today:
“If you want to be angry about something, get pissed at a media culture that goes beserk about bonuses one week and forgets all about them the next. And be worried, quite worried, about a society for whom anger is a form of entertainment.” – Joe Klein

So, then my question is why you want to lay blame on “these people” for having their own opinion? Aren’t they just taking what society programmed them to do and applying it to their religious beliefs?

What would be the solution? Ban Creationism from the classroom and then we will all suddenly have a greater attention span? Or is the problem deeper than that?

The Century of Self goes into this deeper issue pretty clearly.

Is this latest surge of attention on Creationism actually just another outpouring of this same media culture? Bill Maher is a comedian and he documented his quest for more jokes. That’s why the end of the movie shows him in a stand-up club. He was selling his act.

@fireside – No, I don’t want to lay blame on “these people” for having their own opinion. Free societies are a good thing. Different opinions are a good thing. I’m very interested in the deeper meanings of life and to me this includes religion. I’m a Christian and I do believe in God. I think reading the bible requires reading skills (somethings creationists certainly have). Understanding the bible requires intellect, though. The bible was written more than 1900 years ago. To me it

1) offers social guidance
2) addresses ethical questions and offers advice
3) records historical events
4) documents myths inspired by oral traditions
5) contains poetry revolving around the marvels of the world
6) uses many metaphors and symbols
7) tries to answer fundamental ‘why questions’, explaining the
world based on the knowledge available at the time
8) contains some statements that we must reject today
9) describes rituals which help humans to strengthen the bonds between social groups

I don’t want to ban creationisms from classrooms, only from biology in classrooms. The controversy could be covered in sociology or psychology or philosophy classes.

There’s no correlation with attention spans. I was talking about the problem of delayed gratification and math. That’s all.

@mattbrowne – that makes sense. I think Maher suggested that the best thing to do is for Atheists to form a lobby and petition the government, since religious groups do it all the time and they seem to get whatever they want.

I don’t think Creationism should be taught as science either, but I really doubt that any movement to do so will get very far.