Do you think that all of the great new economy cars that GM is suposed to be making are what the market will buy?

I think US way of perceveing what is a pro or a con in a car model has irreversibly changed after last autumn. Maybe you won’t like those kind of cars,(in fact this is really probable, since most are used to fuel drinking super giants) but this is a (painful) improvement that ‘economy in the crisis/ecology in the 21st century’ do require.

Considering that the Obama administration is giving them three months to provide a viable restructured business plan (after they failed to do so thus far), there’s a good chance we may never see them in production.

Such a waste.

of course Chrystler may soon be owned by or in partnership with Fiat, so that may work out well

I would love to see American car companies produce economical and reliable cars. Not sure GM has it in them though.

They have some good technology in the pipeline. Amid all the ballyhoo about the Volt, they’ve made some significant, if less publicized, advances in clean-diesel engines for light trucks, and small, turbocharged gas engines that will give decent gas mileage without sacrificing performance. I would like to see these vehicles come to market (I also want a new Camaro SS, but that’s beside the point).

I think GM has a chance, and I’m willing to give it to them. Word this morning is that Fiat and Chrysler are going to merge, and that doesn’t thrill me. I once owned a Fiat 124 coupe, and it was the worst car I ever had.

I was not asking what I would like in a car. I was asking if the market would buy it. Many people need larger vehicles for their families. They also need them to be large enough to carry things. With all of the restrictions on small business it is way to hard to call a company up and get them to send a larger vehicle on demand and when needed at a price that is cheaper than doing it yourself. Then there are large people who do not fit in small cars. I have a medium sized car and I have to place my legs in particular positions to get into it. I am less than 6 feet tall.

I’m VERY integrated with the US car manufacturers via my family (That CEO that just resigned, yah he spoke at my uncles retirement party a few years ago). My family largely if not entirely works in the car manufacturers area (almost all designing engineers).

They’ve been pushing this switch for a while (engineers and such). It was management who screwed up by building what people wanted and couldn’t afford (Gas guzzling SUV’s for example). The VOLT is the first example of engineers getting their way (thanks largely to the gas crisis). I would definitely buy a VOLT, when they come out they’ll be pretty much the most fuel efficient car out there, and won’t even spend a drop of fuel for what is it, up to 40 miles?

GM should survive but will have to seriously consider their roll-out plans and business model. I think the VOLT is a good addition. They have asked for government bailouts that are around a third of what Chrysler has requested.

If Chrysler and Fiat don’t merge, then we may see the end of Chrysler this year.

GM and Ford are fine. Ford is especially fine, they don’t even need a bailout. GM will downsize significantly in the worst case scenario. Chrysler is a question mark. They COULD survive without the Fiat merger, but it would be significantly harder.

From what i read today, the government is willing to offer another 6 billion to facilitate the Fiat-Chrysler merger. If it doesn’t go through, they say there are no more government funds for the company, supposedly.

I agree it would be possible, but extremely difficult.

I’ll believe it when I see them on the transport trucks and rolling onto the car lots. They’ll not only have to come up with economy models but those models will have to be proven in quality to compete with foreign brands that have already penetrated the market. Basically, it’s unlikely.

I hope with that range the volt is a van or something of a simular size. With only a 40 mile range it would only be good for shopping. That would require it to be a good sized car. It would not be much good in most large cities so it should be marketed only to small cities as a second car. I am a one car man so it would be worthless to me unless I have a big increase in income.

@walterallenhaxton: 10yrs ago, GM had a few EVO’s the public could lease and there was always a waiting list. The lease costs were expensive, the range was awful and the public interest was strong but we never had enough cars to meet demand. GM would publish and send memos about the public not responding to the EVO’s but it was bullshit, they had too much money invested in the tooling for the mainstream gas engine cars and wanted to quash the interest in better developing a technology that wouldn’t support fuels.

I have been having trouble with batteries. They take a long time to charge and they run down pretty fast. They are lead acid. Maybe the new technology batteries are better. I have to run the generator just as long to charge the battery as my computer takes to discharge it.

@walterallenhaxton , the Volt uses an array of Lithium Ion batteries, while the Prius and other hybrids from the big nameplates use Nickel Metal Hydride batteries. Most of the few GM EV-1’s built used lead acid batteries, as do some kit vehicles.

Lithium Ion batteries have the highest charge density and charge to weight ratio of any available commercial battery. They do, however, have durability issues, which you already know about if you have an aging laptop computer. I haven’t heard what GM is planning to do about that. It’s easy to build an electric motor that can power a car or truck. It’s hard to build a battery that can hold enough coulombs to give it an acceptable range.

Another intriguing idea is the flywheel battery, which stores energy in a very high RPM (>30,000) flywheel that is used to power a generator. To charge it, you use a motor, which can be powered by anything, to spin up the flywheel. The motor can be integral with the system, or external. Commonly, it’s a motor-generator, which uses the same set of windings for both charging and discharging.

Here you have problems; the machining required to balance a flywheel that spins at that speed is very exacting, and the materials have to be very strong to avoid the rotor being torn apart by centrifugal and coriolus forces. That’s expensive. Unlike chemical batteries, flywheel devices can be charged very quickly. I know there is some research being done for use in vehicles, but I don’t know of anything actually being planned.

I think you will have torque problems with your flywheel. I hit the breaks on an over the road tractor and wound up against the guard rail because of the torque of the wheels and they were spinning a lot slower than that.
Capacitors have great promise for extending the life of the batteries. They can act quickly and do all of the accelerating and braking. They can easily be recharged from the batteries at a controlled rate.

@walterallenhaxton , I would be concerned about precession forces from such a high-RPM device. You would almost have to mount it in a gimbal. I see flywheel batteries as having more potential in stationary applications, like storing energy from solar arrays. You could built them very large for this purpose.

One of the EVs now being produced in the U.K. uses capacitors to supplement the battery during acceleration. I read about it not long ago, but I can’t find the article. This design evidently allows a smaller battery pack and extended range. It also allows for ferocious power on demand – capacitors have effectively zero internal resistance. In my undegrad days, we used to charge up the little ceramic jobs to around 1000 volts and leave them lying around the lab as a practical joke. Not enough coulombs to hurt anybody, but you knew it if you picked one up.

Anybody see the new Segway car?