If alcohol was discovered today would it be banned?

Yeah, that’s how the world works. Just like marijuana, wait, maybe not.

Not the first day, but the day after.

Our ancestors may not have been conceived, if it weren’t for alcohol. Therefore, there would be no us to ban anything.

Besides, it’s been around since the beginning of time. Also, it’s easy to make, thus is very difficult to effectively ban. Attempts have been made before.

@peedub
Easy to make and has been around a long time similar to cannabis?

Maybe, until they realized how horny it made their girl friends. Then they’d make it as available as water, hmm what a coincidence.

I hope not – I am little bit past the anarchistic rebel stage. If it was new I would want to drink my malt in peace, not in hiding.

Because banning it worked so well during Prohibition…

One can only hope that someday it will become as socially unacceptable to drink as it has become to smoke. More people die or become seriously injured as a result of drunks than from second hand smoke.

@rooeytoo . More people die or become seriously injured as a result of drunks than from second hand smoke.

C’mon Rooey, they are not remotely similar – all cigarettes are harmful, while only misuse or abuse of alcohol is harmful – as is misuse or abuse of almost anything.

Still, if it was good enough for Jesus it is certainty good enough for me. ;)

It is not about alcohol the drink.

It is about alcohol the money.

If it wasn’t for the tax we pay on it, it would be banned

I think it would certainly be a controlled substance as are many industrial solvents etc

Life in the future a la “Demolition Man” is very flutherlike; banning alcohol, swearing, guns and weapons is lovely.

@Zen Alcohol and guns, huh? So, that’s why they always practice on empty bottles.

@DarkScribe – you are right they are not remotely similar, nobody ever smoked a pack of cigarettes and then got in their car and killed someone, or beat up their partner or abused the kids. The cops are not called out, what is it, over 85% of the time for smoking related violence or crime. Smoking doesn’t cause marriages to break up, business to be lost or reputations to be ruined. The list goes on and on, so yep you told me so and I agree, they are not remotely similar. Since you are a territorian I am sure you read the article in today’s NT News regarding the pickled walnut brain syndrome caused by moderate but daily alcohol consumption. It pretty much said that all alcohol is harmful to either your liver or your brain depending on your genetic makeup.

Well, let’s think about this for a minute. Most of the things you can get fucked up on are better than booze, and if we didn’t have alcohol, we’d have something else. Maybe legal pot or even heroin. Trust me; humankind would have found something to get wasted on if alcohol hadn’t been discovered. It’s just part of the human condition. Native Americans, for example, didn’t have hooch until the Europeans came, but they did have mescaline and peyote.

I suspect that it wouldn’t be banned. It probably wouldn’t be popular enough for society to bother with.

@rooeytoo It pretty much said that all alcohol is harmful to either your liver or your brain depending on your genetic makeup.

It is pretty much accepted that regular small amounts of alcohol , like for instance red wine, offer substantial health benefits. Excess is what is harmful.

@DarkScribe Yeah, red wine is good for you but it’s in the amount of a table spoon. More than that is not bringing any health benefits, more to the opposite. Drinking a bit now and then is reasonable in order to have some fun before you die. When it turns into constant consumption, you are not making friends with your body. I drink too much beer myself.

@O DarkScribe Yeah, red wine is good for you but it’s in the amount of a table spoon.

You must have awfully big tablespoons where you live, most reports that I have seen are working with 100mm to 300mm. Look at the many reports on the “Mediterranean” diet etc., all red wine and tomato focused.

@DarkScribe It kind of depends afaik. The hero in red wine is procyanid, which is good for the heart. Some wine don’t have as much, some have a lot. Table spoon or a glass. The point is that it’s healthy in smaller doses.

@O: My understanding is that the “hero” in red wine is resveratrol, a chemical compound shown to extend the lifespan of laboratory animals in some experiments. This has not been replicated in humans.

Moderate alcohol consumption has been correlated with longevity:

Results: of the 8,644 women and 4,980 men with complete information on the variables of interest and potential confounders, 6,930 women and 4,456 men had died (median age, 87 years). Both men and women who drank alcohol had decreased mortality compared with non-drinkers. Those who drank two or more drinks per day had a 15% reduced risk of death. The reduced risk was not limited to one type of alcohol. Stable drinkers (those who reported drinking both at baseline and follow-up) had a significantly decreased risk of death compared with stable non-drinkers. Those who started drinking at follow-up also had a significantly lower risk. Women who quit drinking were at increased risk of death.

Sounds like some of you guys need to relax and have a beer. Yes, alcohol can cause a lot of damage, but so can any miss used item. Even eating too much can cause all kinds of health problems so are we gonna out law fat too. Alcohol is too much a part of socializing to get rid of it.

@nikipedia Well, considering solely alcohol apart from the healthier elements of red wine, there are many reports made and it seems that the alcohol industry doesn’t mind sponsoring several such research reports to support the thesis that moderate consumption is good for you. Now, I am not saying that you are wrong. I am saying that reports contradict each other, and this is what I’ve panned out going through some of them.

I find that independent (my impression) reports seem to show that only older people, like over 50, seems to benefit from moderate drinking. If you are younger, alcohol makes more damage than good. It also depends on if you are a man or a woman. Men seem to be more benefited than women, due to size and lower amount of body fat. It’s been my impression that the claim that moderate drinking would be beneficial, seems at best half true. I believe the most correct would be to say that some research show that older people could be healthier by some consumption.

For men in the 70’s we are talking about one glass of whine a day. For women the same age half a glass. Going lower in age the drinking limit decreases as well. Drinking more than this creates more damage than good.

For me about a table spoon would be healthy. @DarkScribe might need his glass. Sure, maybe the whole bottle.

The health benefits come in the form of lower risk of diabetes-2 and heart and cardiovascular diseases. Moderate use of alcohol comes down to balancing positive and negative affect on health.

It isn’t all that easy to prove these things in reality as one would think. It is quite complex to show that one certain thing makes the whole differece for people to stay healthy or not.

It also depends on the control group used, and statistics. There are many things that plays in when people live long lives and are healthy. Genes, exercise and a healthy diet are some important ones.

Of course, just as health benefits work different on different people so does the damage. Then of course people don’t always consider moderate drinking to be same. What is moderate drinking for you? Is it now and then, a glass every day, a couple? How big is you one glass of wine?

@LKidKyle1985 Yup. There are loads of things bringing down ones health. But we were discussing if it was healthy and how much. It doesn’t mean I stay away from wine or good food. You see, I am a fat guy, and I know exactly what to do to loose weight and reduce the likelihood of me developing diabetes, which is pretty severe considering family. I know it, but I don’t do it. That’s on me. Yeah, some R&R might be appropriate. I do have a cold one waiting.

Are there benefits to a shot or two of chivas? That’s what I drink when I flunk – fluther while drunk.

Ugh…I am so sick of debates about alcohol consumption here…don’t drink if you don’t want to. The end.

You can find statistics and studies to tell you its good or its bad, healthwise speaking. But you can’t change the statistics regarding police call outs for alcohol fueled incidents. Or bring back those who were killed by drunk drivers. Or unrape those attacked and on and on and on.

As I said in the first place, prohibition is not the answer, social unacceptability is the only way. I never thought tobacco would become the enemy but it has, so booze can too, one can only hope.

I have never seen good things come from drinking in terms of behavior.

@rooeytoo

Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You’re saying all those times I’ve gone drinking with my friends and had fun that it was “bad”? Okay.

@DominicX – yep that’s what I am saying. You can play with fire and not get burned sometimes, but you never know when it will get you, in one way or another. Or you may be never get hooked, but what about the drunk who runs into you or your family’s car.

@rooeytoo

Well, I don’t think of things that way. Few things are always bad or always good. They can be both depending on the circumstances, but I do not believe that something like alcohol is always bad. Sorry. Despite popular belief, not everyone who uses alcohol is completely out of control. Yes, I’m sure you’ve had bad experiences and you’ve let them shape your opinions, but I’ve had good experiences. What of that? Different people experience different things.

It’s this desire to control other people’s personal decisions that bothers me.

@DominicX – you are not reading what I wrote, I said I hope it becomes as socially unacceptable as smoking. I am not trying to control your opinion, that is my opinion and hope and answer to the question.

But just out of curiosity, what good experience does alcohol promote? I have never seen a drunk who became more intelligent, sensible, responsible, likeable. At best they swear they haven’t had too much to drink, become deaf and have to yell and have the music turned up to max volume, think they know the solutions to all the world’s problems and find immense humor in the most inane things, at worst they throw up on their own shoes or someone elses, get into fights, urinate in public places and then drive their car into a light post or kill some innocent people.

My personal opinions are based on personal experience but also on my work with a safe home situation, and what I read in the paper every time I pick it up. Lives are being ruined every second of every day by alcohol. So if you and your friends are immune to the possible dangers, you are lucky and I hope your luck continues, but I have my doubts.

@rooeytoo

Let me just ask you something: Do you think I would drink if the effects were overly negative? Do you think I would continue to choose to do anything if the effects were overly negative?

What’s wrong with being more easily amused or fun to be around? When I drink, I do not get angry, violent, or do dangerous things. I get more silly, more willing to do things like dance to the music playing in the livingroom, and even more sentimental on some occasions. Last weekend my friends and I went to Tahoe and we drank. No one threw up, no one was so drunk they were sick, no one fought, no one drove drunk, etc. Just because some people have negative experiences, doesn’t mean all people do. I can’t stress this enough. We were just having fun together, we were dancing, we were hanging out in the backyard talking, we were cooking pasta, we were talking to people online through webcam, we even played a game. It was just fun; nothing negative.

And my personal opinions are based entirely on my experiences. But honestly, I get a little tired of telling people about my experiences because no one cares what I have to say. I’m sick of defending why I drink sometimes because my reasons are never good enough for people and honestly, you’re not going to get anymore out of me; the truth is the truth. I’m not saying you’re being this way, but it’s happened to me before so I get pessimistic when I talk about this. People hear what they want to hear. I’m just going to continue to do what I do. If it ever was a problem, I wouldn’t be doing it and I most certainly do not need to drink to have fun, not at all. I’ve had a lot of fun with my friends without any alcohol at all.

@DominicX – lots of people drink when the effects are overly negative, and the experience you describe above is not typical of the college parties I attended many years ago.

I didn’t ask you to defend why you drink I just asked what all the good experiences were. I listen to what you said, I simply disagree, my privilege right? I feel that drinking is like playing russian roulette, it’s all good until the chamber with the bullet in it comes around.

You will have to try to learn not to get pessimistic when people don’t see things the same way you do, it happens a lot, to me anyhow. I am sure more people think the way you do about alcohol than the way I do.

Alcohol is horribly bad for some people. Ruins lives and families.

Alcohol is healthy for some people. Helps the heart, the blood sugar, and is tasty in cooking.

One thing’s for sure – you ban alcohol, and no one gets it legally, whether it’s good or bad for them. One size does not fit all. What we need is more personal responsibility, tempered with an age limit. How’s that?

@rooeytoo But just out of curiosity, what good experience does alcohol promote? I have never seen a drunk who became more intelligent, sensible, responsible, likeable.

This is the problem. Not all people who drink become drunk, yet you proceed as though they do. I drink almost daily, yet have been drunk possibly five or six time in my life. That was in my youth, it has been more than thirty years since the last time. I dislike losing total control over myself, so – like many people – I make sure that any consumption is moderate.

Alcohol, when used in a responsible manner, is a pleasant social lubricant. Not all drinkers are screaming vomiting, violent drunks, though some are. MOST people don’t drink in pubs and clubs – most do it in their own homes, relaxed and friendly.

I do wish that they would control binge drinking among teenagers though – that is getting right out of control. It is abuse of alcohol that needs controlling, not alcohol itself.

@rooeytoo

Part of the reason why it wasn’t like most college parties is that we were not shitfaced out of our minds. We were just a little drunk or tipsy. Also, there were only 6 of us. Believe me, I like big parties too, but I don’t like to get super drunk. Just tipsy is fine sometimes. Other times I’ve been more drunk, but never drunk enough to black out or lose control or anything. And I know plenty of people who have been that drunk, but it’s not my thing. I agree with @DarkScribe that drinking isn’t just about getting drunk and losing control. Plenty of people can drink without that.

And of course you can disagree. It’s just that in the past people have asked why I drink and I tell them and they say “not a good enough reason” and I’m like “okay, fuck you, then”. I’ve also been accused of being an alcoholic for saying I like to drink sometimes. I have to admit that people in “real life” are quite different from this. People act like I’m the only person in the world who drinks because it’s fun. Far from it. Maybe people in SF just drink more; I don’t know.

@DarkScribe -Dr. Daglish, Director of Addiction Psychiatry at Royal Brisbane and Woman’s Hospital had an article on his research in the NT News Thursday. His findings are a bit different than your moderate drinking is beneficial theory. I find it difficult to believe that someone of your great and varied accomplishments needs a social lubricant!
And for all the responsible drinkers at home relaxing, there are a lot out there wreaking havoc for themselves, their families and anyone they come in contact with. Alcohol is a deadly drug in addition to being a social lubricant.

@DominicX – if you were my kid I would try my damndest to keep you from drinking but everyone has to make up their own mind. I hate the stuff. To me social lubricant is bullshit. It is good that you can have fun without it because way too many people in this world can’t do anything without it. I don’t just preach, I give a good example, I have not had a drink since 1990 and I am a fully functioning human being, I can laugh, act silly, go to parties and have fun and remember the next day what happened.

Now I am finished talking about it, Dominic, just take care of yourself and be careful

@rooeytoo I find it difficult to believe that someone of your great and varied accomplishments needs a social lubricant!

Not needs – enjoys.

His findings are a bit different than your moderate drinking is beneficial theory.

BTW it is not my theory, it supported by much research into diet, longevity heart disease, etc. The big thing in all cases is moderation and the ideal amount varies from study to study, but all pretty well accept that one glass (of varying sizes) per day is beneficial – but that more than that is not “more” beneficial.

No, because scientists would find the beneficial factors as well.

No, alcohol wouldn’t be banned. That’s because the net effect of drinking alcohol is that it saves lives.

For example, the Cancer Council of New South Wales concludes that “If the net effect of total alcohol consumption on Australian society is considered, there is a net saving of lives due to the protective effect of low levels of consumption on cardiovascular disease.”

In the US, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) calculates that if all drinkers in the U.S. became abstainers, there would be an additional 80,000 deaths per year. Data from The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) similarly indicates that alcohol saves more lives than it costs.

Light and moderate drinking also saves more lives in England and Wales than are lost through the abuse of alcohol according to scientists at the University of London. Their conclusion is supported by other researchers in the UK.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/InTheNews/Etc/20060928122250.html

Were these studies funded by alcohol producing companies??? :-)

@ItsAHabit On that note, I think I’ll pour myself another glass of wine