Are racy pictures of minors online good or not good?

Expelling these girls from going to school is the best idea ever, what they are suffering from is over education.~ What moral foundation of society? Seriously.

“Are racy pictures of minors online good or not good?”

Neither. Good and bad not good are subjective terms. If the racy photos were exploitative / not taken by the girls themselves then THAT is a different story. What we have here is 15 and 16 year olds that want to post lewd or racy photos of themselves online, which is really their problem. Is it wise? No. Should these kids be punished for fooling around one night and not actually causing any real trouble? No. Let the silly twerps go to school. Naughty is fine. If they actually harmed somebody or did a criminal act… then that’s a different story. These were “pictures on Facebook” so they couldn’t have been too bad. Young people want attention, they are exploring sexuality and historically young people have been know to show terrifically bad judgement at times.

@everephebe said everything I wanted to say.

they souldn’t be punished because it’s not their fault. Our society is completely ruining the younger generation with all this filth on TV etc that is getting worse and worse with each generation. I think we are going to have big problems in a few years with the young, because basically, we are f**king them up.

How in the world would you connote parental responsibility as an issue? The girls acted on their own without the parents knowing. Granted, they should have been taught at a much younger age about personal privacy and appropriate behavior.

This sounds like a typical school administrator making an over reaction and punishing rather than teaching a lesson to the girls. The principal had an opportunity to teach the girls that they were setting themselves up for consequences from other teens that they could not foresee.

@everephebe said all I have to say on the topic of the school.

However as a parent this is something I would address at home as to how to behave on the internet and how things that are on the internet could come back on you in some way or some how so you want to be careful what is posted there. This is all something though that should be address at home and in not with a school. Who is this school thinking they are to discipline a child that is misbehaven when not at school time.

What happens outside of school has nothing at all to do with any teacher anywhere ever.

Should under age girls be able to post anything they like on the internet? yes… should I be or some teacher be looking at it? no.

The teacher should be hit in the head with a hammer for being a pathetic twat.

EDIT: a teacher should be there to put facts in childrens brains, once it turns in to opinion they are crossing the line, and once they try to start controling things, they are just a burden.

I do believe my kids would be so scared about what I’d do if I ever saw something like that, that I don’t think they’d do it.

I think the suspension is fine. It may not be the schools job to “punish” students for what they do on their own time, but when what they do on their own time is going to affect the rest of the school, then the school has a responsibility to protect the rest of the students. Besides, education appears to be wasted on them at this point.

I don’t think that schools should have the right to suspend students for what they do in their free time. Schools have one responsibility, parents have another. Those girl’s parents should be the ones disciplining them. This seems like an issue of morality and judgement, both of which should be taught at home.

It was during the summer and the girls were out of school. The school got involved when they caught wind of what had happened after the girls returned to school during the summer for extracurricular and cocurricular activities practice sessions.

Okay, I understand the judges ruling that the school can’t control what the girls did outside of school and all that. I’m still mulling over that the parents of these girls contacted the ACLU after the teens were given temporary suspension from the volleyball team, cheerleading and a show choir performance.

As a parent, even if I didn’t agree with the school’s decision, I can’t imagine getting the ACLU involved in something like this. I dunno. I would have probably suspended my daughter from a lot more.

“a teacher should be there to put facts in childrens brains, once it turns in to opinion they are crossing the line, and once they try to start controling things, they are just a burden.”

I’m sorry, @poisonedantidote, but I just can’t let this stand unchallenged.

Teaching, of any stripe is a political act. A teacher is not a robot, so even on the unintentional end of the spectrum, a teacher will instantiate their beliefs in the classroom. Believe it or not, this is not a bad thing.

Moreover, teaching is categoriaclly not about “putting facts in children’s brains”! It is, in the Western context at least, about participating in creating members of society. What facts should children know? What other facts should those be compared and contrasted with? How does one assess what the children know? How does one decide what they should know?

Basically, education is, in many ways, a microcosm of the society in which the education takes place. The example that inspired this thread is no different: children behave sexually; puritan adults get their knickers in a twist about it. Sounds like The USA, no?

I’m a teacher and if I had to teach like @poisonedantidote‘s model, I’d quit my job. I am not just a machine that spurts out information then expects kids to regurgitate it back to me, then I retreat back into my non-existent human closet at the final bell. That’s not true education. I’m a human that works with humans—things will happen in the classroom because humans do not mindlessly follow a prescribed system of behavior, especially teenagers in schools. Nothing pisses me off more than people outside education loftily determining how teachers should behave without spending one second in front of a classroom full of hormonal kids. Spend one week teaching before judging those who actually are in the trenches. Funny, the same harsh judgment does not seem to occur for other professions… oh except Obamas?

That being said— The only thing different between other tweens and teens, and those girls is… they were dumb enough to post it online and they got caught.

I’m not saying it’s excusable, no, but there’s a whole wide world happening through texting and through cell phone use that most adults don’t realize exist. I know from anecdotes from my students that this isn’t uncommon. I had to confiscate a phone from a student once and right there was a picture of her and 4 other girls touching their tongues together on a bulbous lollipop with sexual expressions. That was her wallpaper. This hasn’t happened once, but a few times where I accidentally got access to ‘the other side’ of teen life.

Each time, when the admin had a meeting with these girl’s parents, the parents just laughed and said kids will be kids and to focus on more important things. No consequences for them, but I almost got fired for being attentive to what was going on around me.

So don’t go blamin’ the teachers. I personally think it’s terrible, but my hands are kinda tied. If I happen to find evidence, I’m a perv. If I deny it’s existence, it’s my fault for not being concerned or involved enough. Oh brother, I just do my job the best I can.

Explusion from school is the stupidest punishment ever. Kids need MORE education, not less.

Let’s separate the two points joined by @poisonedantidote‘s post.

Teachers should not be robots, simply ‘putting’ facts into brains.
I support engaging, supportive and personal teaching methods.

Teachers should have nothing to do with how kids use their cameras/phones outside the classroom.

@linguaphile “I personally think it’s terrible”
Great, well I’m sure you’ll keep your own children from straying down such terrible, terrible paths.

“I just do my job the best I can.”
Yes, your job, teaching. Not just ‘putting’ facts into brains, acknowledged. Also not trying to use disciplinary channels to control what kids do with their cameras at home. Maybe in your role as a teacher, you can explain why you consider such behaviour to be harmful or evil or whatever it is you think makes it ‘terrible’. By doing so, maybe you can prevent it. Or maybe your classes have nothing whatsoever to do with such things.

Either way, if the children don’t force their ‘problems’ into your home-life, you shouldn’t force your ‘solutions’ into theirs.

I’m going to ignore all the comments and simply answer the question: No, it’s not a good idea. For obvious reasons.

I don’t think they should be punished for having underdeveloped frontal lobes.

I don’t know, is it really that horrible for teenagers to play at sex acts? What’s the real issue, here? When I was 16 I would have thought it was hilarious to pose with fake lollipop penises.

Is the problem that they did it, that they photographed it, or that they shared the photographs?

It certainly is not a good thing. These girls are too young to understand that they may get attention that they are not prepared for. However, stupid is what stupid does. It’s not the schools place to raise these girls. The parents should be more aware of what their children are doing. If however, this behavior crosses over and creates problems in the school than that is a different matter.
A person could argue that it has the potential to draw the attention to pediphiles to the school. So long as the girls don’t mention what school they attend than I don’t think they should be suspended.
What the school should consider doing is talking to law enforcement about coming to their school one day to talk to the kids about how to safely use their computers and maybe give them a few stories about what tradegies have happened to other minors who thought they were being safe. Also include sexting stories gone wrong.
When my kids were in school I remember them having one day a year to talk to kids about drugs. If they are not talking to them about using cell phones or computers safely then I think its about time they do.

After reading the article linked by @Cruiser and reading through the postings listed so far, this situation caused pause. Here is another article that sheds more light on the topic.

Two sophomore girls at Churubusco High School in Fort Wayne, Indiana were banned from extracurricular activities after sexually suggestive pictures posted to MySpace during summer vacation ended up in the hands of school officials. The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of the girls, claiming that the punishment went too far by violating the students’ free speech rights and resulted in their “humiliation” as they were forced to apologize to an all-male coaches board.

The photos in question were taken at a sleepover with friends during summer vacation. In the photos, the girls were wearing lingerie and “pretending to kiss or lick a large multi-colored novelty lollipop shaped phallus,” according to the complaint. None of the photos or captions made any reference whatsoever to Churubusco High School. Obviously the two girls didn’t want everyone to see the pictures, so they posted them with the privacy controls set so only friends could see them. However, the photos were copied and eventually ended up on the desk of Austin Couch, the school’s principal.

Note the typo regarding the lollipop in the 2nd paragraph. It’s worth a giggle.

The girls were not expelled or suspended from attending school. They were banned from participating in extracurricular activities.

@poisonedantidote Here in the US, apparently there are certain instances when it is acceptable for administrations to get involved. Courts have ruled in the past that behavior outside of school, including postings to social network sites, can be subject to punishment by school officials if that behavior can been shown to be disruptive at school.

@bkcunningham I haven’t come across any article yet that states the parents contacted the ACLU. Have you? All I’ve seen is that the ACLU filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of the girls. No matter who approached the other first, this particular incident is in violation of the teen’s civil liberties. Considering this type of situation has happened in the past and will most likely to continue, it’s not surprising that the ACLU got involved.

@linguaphile It is a slippery slope that teachers and school administrators have to walk. If I were a parent, I would want someone on the staff to alert me if my child pulled a stunt like this or just about anything else that might be disrupting in a school environment. The line gets crossed when a school employee expects a certain reaction to the news or to know if or how I plan to punish the child.

@Pandora There are some interesting possibilities to your suggestion. If you don’t mind, I’d like to expand upon it. If the schools were to any type of discussion group on this topic, I’d rather see it conducted by a panel of experts. It should not only include a law enforcement official, but someone who posted items that they later regretted due to the repercussions it caused, and someone who has been convicted for dabbling in child pornography. It wouldn’t hurt to have a school administrator and a parent in the know about social websites, and even someone who works for a social web site there, too. Oh, and one more…how about a representative in a Human Resources (job recruiting) role?

Let them talk about it from their perspectives, and then open it up to a Q&A session. And more importantly, this shouldn’t be limited to students. I’d like to see a separate gathering for the parents with the same panel. The parents are the ones ultimately responsible for their children’s education and actions. From my limited experience, they are the ones that need just as much, if not more, enlightenment on this subject.

I guess @everephebe helped me out, too lol.

@Pied_Pfeffer I don’t concern myself with about how parents discipline their kids, nor do I pay attention to what the kids do in their homes, unless it affects class dynamics. My job is to report certain things that happen in my classroom and that’s what I’m talking about. If the kids do whatever at home… that’s their parents’ business. However, if they bring the pictures or evidence into my classroom, it becomes my business. Maybe I didn’t make that clear.

However, what happens off-campus and off-hours makes a difference for athletes in Minnesota. According to the state high school athletics governing body—student-athletes are accountable for a certain set of behaviors 24/7, 365 days a year. If they were caught drinking, smoking or posting nude pictures anytime, it’s an automatic 2 weeks suspension, minimum. One 14 year old girl got drunk with her mom in Mexico and posted pictures on Facebook. She was still suspended because all athletes sign contracts with MSHSL when they start a sport, and MSHSL governs athletes behavior 24/7.

I’m not sure a panel would have an impact on today’s teenagers. I’ve seen them work, and not work. We should ask the teenagers here what they think would work.

What concerns me is when 18 years of my life and training is put at risk and I’m threatened to be fired for students’ actions at home, not mine. I’ve seen colleagues fired for things that happen at home, far from their supervision. Like I said, I was really irked by @poisonedantidote putting it all on the teacher, especially when they already are held accountable for invisible actions far outside their control.

While the photos may be inviting trouble, I think the government has already it upon themselves to restrict us of our liberties as it is.

It doesn’t sound like the girls were in danger, coerced into taking the photos, and it doesn’t sound like there was illegal underage nudity.

We have more important stuff for federal judges to deal with and get paid for.

@poisonedantidote however, is completely off target when he states “What happens outside of school has nothing at all to do with any teacher anywhere ever.” When teachers are given the HUGE responsibility of the care of our children for so many hours a week, it’s damn well important that they involve themselves with what happens outside of the classroom. If a child comes to school with burns, black eyes, soiled clothing etc, and the teacher turns a blind eye, a HUGE injustice is being done to the children. The teachers should be as equally involved as the parents, considering the teachers probably spend more time in a weekday with a child than the parent does.

While I think this is obvious, and it may have been stated, I didn’t read all the responses, so, sorry if I was repetitive.

@linguaphile, you explained that perfectly. It gave me a very clear understanding of what you face. Thank you.

@linguaphile Thank you for the clarification and specific examples. I confess that I made an implication based upon your initial response. It was wrong of me to do so, and I hope that you will accept my apology. I am truly sorry for doing so.

@Pied_Pfeffer You gave me an opportunity to clarify my point, so all’s good :)

I would, however, be on the lookout for the abuse that @mrrich724 mentioned. That’s when I become concerned about what’s going on at home because it affects how successful a kid is in class, but I’m very cautious about jumping to conclusions as well.

I do agree with you about what I do with disciplining my kids is my business—my son got wrangled up in the legal system for toiletpapering a house. I don’t have any problem with TPing… it’s no big deal for me, but because his school called the cops for a 3 month old, out of school hours TP prank, he got stuck in the legal system for 1 year. That’s the parent side of me saying they should never have gotten involved, but they did, and legally they could. OOoohhh MAD! There is more than 1 side to everything… so nothing’s black and white…. especially in education!