If the US employment situation worsens, will it spur citizens to take jobs that undocumented workers are doing?

Nope. Unemployment has been bad for 2½ years now, and no one has. Crops went unpicked in Georgia when the state cracked down on undocumented farm workers. They had to get convicts to pick the crops.

They had to get convicts to pick the crops. Wonder what would have happened if they refused to work? Tossed in the hole for weeks with no contact? [sarcasm] Nothing like modern slavery out the back door. They are law breadking animals, let them lose their souls [/sarcasm]

@Hypocrisy_Central :: I just asked my mom. She did ten years in prison. She said that at least in Oregon the jobs that prisoners did (everything from repairing supermarket scanners to stuff for the DMV) were coveted. You had to apply and be interviewed. My mom worked in the bakery. She got $50 a month to spend in the canteen and the DMV people got $150 per month.

But she also said that she wouldn’t be surprised if people were put in the hole for refusing to pick fruit.

I suspect that it has a lot to do with the location of the work and the location of the laborers. Not all labor is mobile.

I don’t think so. I believe Americans would rather take to the streets, homeless rather than give up any pride to do what they think they are above.

I certainly hope so. It took meeting my SO, a blue collar worker from the UK, to realize that intellegent people are no less intellegent for devoting eight hours a day to a job that provides a valuable product or service.

I grew up in a time and place (US) where children were expected to attend college, get a decent job, and do better than their parents. And we bought into it. Ending up in a blue collar job was looked upon as some sort of failure. ‘We’ are kind to those that do, but there is that behind the back whisper or wink that implies not all of us were meant to succeed. I used to be one of these people. Not any more. I see the benefits of living a balanced life, as well as having a job that may not be mentally stimulating but brings upon a certain satisfaction as well as a paycheck.

Franklin D. Roosevelt got the US motivated during a time of need by creating jobs, and it seems as if President Obama is heading on the same path. I hope that the US citizens embrace his goal if not the bill, and focus on accepting jobs and doing them well to keep the country afloat. It has worked before, and we can do it again.

@Hypocrisy_Central It was voluntary by the inmates, not slave labor. They get to at least be outside in the fresh air.

@Neizvestnaya

I strongly disagree. Unless things have changed to a virtually unbelievable degree since I was younger, Americans will work at whatever their hand finds to do. I’ve done jobs I wouldn’t ask a DOG to do!

When I first dated my husband I thought he would be ok to marry for many reasons. One was that I believed he had a strong work ethic, that he would take any job, even sweep floors to support himself and his family. He took pride in his work and his ability to be independent. I valued that attitude. He never said anything regarding it, I just knew by observing him. I think for those who are accustomed to doing jobs that are higher level white collar jobs, they feel bored, or that their skills are wasted if they do jobs such as picking crops. Hell, they may even suck at it. Like the kid who gets straight A’s in science and math and then takes woodworking thinking all the stupid kids take it, so it should be an easy A, and winds up screwing up his GPA.

However, there seems to be plenty of people out of work who were blue collar, who seem unwilling to move into a different blue collar job. Sometimes it is because they are unwilling to move. I think sometimes it is because a different ethnic group greatly populated that industry. Someone I know once hypothesized that white teens don’t work in fast food in communities where black people primarily do, but they do in cities that are very white. And, white people don’t want to be the only white guy while everyone around them in the same job is speaking Spanish. Not sure how that really plays out.

In summary, I have no idea if Americans will finally start working the fields again. Maybe if farms were smaller again, owned by individuals, not such huge corporate machines, we would see this change. When I drive through Indiana, and Wisconsin and see reasonable sized farms I feel pretty sure the owner is out there working just like his employees, and they all are caring for the crops, loving the land, and taking pride in watching the crops grow.

@CaptainHarley: Americans like you are to be commended. I am unhappy to say though, I know more people who wouldn’t take a job I do than ones who would. No, they’d rather mooch off their families, go on social assistance in whatever ways to “get what they’re entitled to” until times brighten up for them. I can’t count the number of people who are avoiding accepting a less than ideal job in order to keep going to school so they can keep applying for aid so they can keep avoiding paying their school loans.

Those are the sort of people I would love to have told, “I got TWO jobs, you can’t find ONE?” : D

@CaptainHarley: As a holder of two jobs, I often to ask particular people that.

@Neizvestnaya

Yayyy! : ))

Yes, but they will be very whiny about the difficult labor to which they are unaccustomed. Likely be lots of overweight people with lower back pain.

Good point @cockswain a lot of Americans cannot do the physical labor. Do you watch Undercover Boss. Amazing how the ivory tower has no idea how difficult it is to do physical work all day long. I worked in retail for years, my first desk job I thought to myself and out loud, what a breeze. There were times during the year When I worked retail I cried when I finally laid down to go to sleep I was so physically exhausted. Waking up feeling like a truck hit me. Sitting at a desk is nothing like lifting and moving and standing on your feet for hours and hours.

No, I work in a white collar environment and am stunned at how soft a lot of people are. If they tried picking crops all day, they would be injured and drain medical resources. I can’t tell you how many folks I see take the elevator that aren’t injured, just fat and lazy. Or how many want help moving a few boxes. No way they would stand up to a hot day in the fields with worse working conditions than a roofer.

It’s not so much the actual wages it’s the fact that the illegals still are more attractive to the businesses because they don’t have to cover them with insurance. They also don’t have a leg to stand on if they encounter unsafe or hostile workplace situations, because remember, they are not even here officially.

People will always go for the best job they can find. An illegal immigrant who is picking crops is probably focused on the future, making and saving enough money to move onto something better or at least provide a better future for their children. Picking crops is a job that doesn’t really offer any hope of advancement, so anyone who takes that job is probably just biding their time while looking for something else. Nobody wants to work jobs like that, not just Americans.

During the times I’ve been unemployed, I’ve always tried to hold out for jobs with some hope of advancement or at least a job where I can learn something in an effort to keep moving forward. Some of those have been very low-paying jobs. I probably could have taken a job picking crops or doing labor, but I’ve always had enough resources to stick it out and find jobs that I wanted, where I can use more of my skills and have hope for advancement. If I had to, I’d pick crops or do manual labor. The low pay wouldn’t bother me as much as the lack of possibilities- eventually, I’d have to find some other job.

My family came to the US a few generations ago, but there are some stories about pretty hard times. Some of my friends whose families came over more recently had similar experiences, where their parents worked any job they could find until they’d gained some momentum and found better jobs. The second generation is going to school and planning ahead to get white-collar jobs now. Their parents were just as ambitious but had much fewer options.

I would like to say yes, but then I am surrounded by blue collar workers who take whatever job they can get, and aren’t afraid to get their clothes and hands dirty to provide for their family.

For many many years the mantra was to never take a “lesser” job because it screws up your resume. America is changing probably a little with the current situation. The fear was that it will show you are willing to accept less, and so it is harder to get back up to where you were. I always hated that taking a year off means you have to explain that odd year, justify it to an HR person. You can’t just decide you are burned out and want to take a year to travel through Europe if you can afford it, you have to work every day of your life from the age of 18/22 on or there is something wrong with you and you have ruined your career. All these ways of thinking that were prevalent over the last 60 years screw around with, and play a part in, what people are willing to do.

@Neizvestnaya No, they’d rather mooch off their families, go on social assistance in whatever ways to “get what they’re entitled to” until times brighten up for them. I think I know more of them, than people like @CaptainHarley. They feel that if America can give all that money to foreigners, Uncle Sam should spread the love here 1st. They will not work twice as hard for full pay if they can get at least half as much doing nothing. They would get by on way less money if they didn’t have to sweat and toil for it.

If my own children had acted like that, I would have beat them senseless!

@CaptainHarley My 17 yr old son rode his bicycle 4 miles to his job at Dairy Queen when our car recently took a shit on us. Now that’s dedication. I don’t know many children who would do that now if they had to. They would probably quit their job if they didn’t have transportation. Your work ethic is very refreshing. =)

@jonsblond It is always amazing to me how people easily have no loyalty to their job and can show such a lack of work ethic. Then I see employees who get abused because they are willing to go above and beyond. I delayed my honeymoon, because I wanted to have my wedding when my family and friends would most enjoy a vacation in FL, during the winter months, but it was the busiest part of the year for my store. I look back and think I was an idiot for doing it, for not taking the time off for my honeymoon at the time of my wedding. My sister called me crying from the streets of NY exhausted from carrying heavy bags and taking on double patients, she is a nurse, home health at the time, during and the days following 9/11. People did not show up for work and she took on more work when there was no public transportation to help her make her way through the city. She rode her bike and walked and was carded at many corners downtown. She should not have done it in my opinion. Our work ethic has left both of us with shorter lives I think. There has to be a balance of some sort.

@jonsblond

That’s a good kid you have there! My first job was running a newspaper route with about 300 customers. In Winter, I used a sled. In Summer I used a wagon. I helped put myself through undergraduate school by driving a delivery truck during the morning, and going to class in the afternoon. ( I got my graduate degree courtesy of Uncle Sam and two years in Vietnam ).

Thank you for the compliment. That aspect of my character is courtesy of my father’s “laying on of hands!” LOL!

@CaptainHarley: One of my mgrs has three kids, all of them have worked for our dealership and all three are such warm people, hard working and gracious. Other employees think it’s strange to see anglo kids working as lot attendants out here but these kids have no hard feelings, don’t bitch or moan and they’re not hard up either. They could afford not to work but they do it to pay for their own things like phones, clothes, car insurance, entertainment. I look at those kids and wish there were more of them. I look at them and have a lot of respect.

@Neizvestnaya

Young people like them deserve respect. That sort of approach to life will sand them in very good stead.

Just an observation: I was very concerned about the current crop of 19–23 year olds .. until I began getting reports back from Iraq and Afghanistan. Now I no longer worry about them. : )

I think most people work hard. It is a small percentage in my opinion who are happy to lay around on the dole for an extended period of time. Having said that I have not worked for two years, living off the husband. Haha.

I see a lot of parents who won’t let their children work because they want their kids to focus on their studies. I think it is a mistake.

@JLeslie

That IS a mistake. Not only does working prepare the young’uns for times when they have to work “below their station,” but it helps greatly by giving them an ethic which they can use in their career. I worked ½ a day every day I was in college, and every Summer, thanks to my father. I KNOW how to work! Heh!

BTW… you’re allowed to stay at home and “live off the husband.” It’s in the wife’s job description! Heh!

@CaptainHarley I started working at the age of 14 and it took me out of a depression. Gave me confidence and I enjoyed it. A great first experience, I learned I could like working. My grades improved, not the opposite. Children who are very self motivated, have intense academic studies, and many after school activities may not need to work to be autonomous and prodictive, but children who are not very motivated, maybe have their grades suffering I think actually benefit the most from getting a job.

And, I never thought about the idea that working as a teen can give a person preparation to work below their station. Very interesting concept. I think I agree with you there. For me, I was raised to respect all work. The respect is in doing a job well, not which job.

@JLeslie

You have wisdom in this! : ))

@JLeslie @CaptainHarley Since you guys brought up the topic of kids working, I’m facing this issue in the next couple years. My daughter is 13, and moderately motivated. She gets fine grades, but her general work ethic is variable. I’ve personally been working since I was 14, so I get the value of working. I also think part of it was my parents were too cheap to toss me $20 now and then though too. Anyways, I was thinking of telling her (if my wife is in agreement) that if she gets over, say a 3.75 GPA, she doesn’t have to work a job and I’ll give her money for her social life within reason. Should she fall below this GPA, then the amount of money I’d allow her would diminish. If she gets below a 3.0, she has to find a way to earn her own money i.e. a job.

I don’t know if this is a good idea, since perhaps she should work a job no matter what. But since she plays sports, and if she’s doing all her homework, that doesn’t leave a lot of time for work and a social life. My feeling is that her hard work should be rewarded with a fun social life and not more work. I’d hope this would keep her motivated to keep her grades up, particularly if she slips for a semester here and there and sees what it’s like to not get free money from me. My overall hope is that such a strategy would put her on a fine path for academic success through college.

I was thinking of a similar plan for college. If she gets excellent grades, I’ll pay for 100% of her tuition and books. If she gets good grades, she can pay 25% in loans or work. If she gets OK grades, she can get 50% in loans. With bad grades, she’s totally on her own. Getting excellent grades in college, particularly with a difficult major, requires a lot of time. It seems to me that I’d be setting her up for the most success in life by giving her incentives to excel in what is important. Then the money she’ll make her first few years out of college will completely dwarf anything she’s have cumulatively earned working side jobs throughout high school and college, and she’ll have a fine work ethic.

What do you guys think?

@cockswain First I want to say that I do not think there is one right way. I happen to think it is fine to reward children monetarily for good grades. As students, in some ways, it is their job to focus on their studies. If she also has extra curricular activities and has little time for a formal job, it is reasonable it might not be prudent for her to have a steady job, but maybe she will want to baby sit or some other thing to earn some of her own money? I think most children want to work. In fact I would bet she comes to you asking if she can get a job within the next three years. But, I am getting off track with my thought process. I don’t think work should be punishment, and I kind of think there is an inkling of that in your strategy. But, I do see your logic also.

As far as tuition, I would want to pay for my child’s tuition, but there is no reason they cannot earn spending money. Or, it can be earn some of their tuition also, it is up to you of course. How about offering to match any money she earns throughout her high school years? The money you give her earmarked to put into her personal college fund not for tuition. If she earns $2000 you give her $2000 towards fun money for college. Just an idea. She can earn just during summers or baby sitting, whatever. You can continue it through her college years so she can take a trip with friends, that sort of thing. My parents were always willing to pay for everything, but I did choose to work, and I did use some of my money to pay for things because I wanted to. Money was never on a reward system for me growing up. I am not saying that is right or wrong, just how it was. I also was very good with money. Some children aren’t, that might affect how you go about things also. How much you need to control how much she gets at once. You can give me $1,000 in a lump sum, and I will tuck it away and spend it the same as if you gave me $10 a week.

I think it really depends on the child. If my kid was very academic, on his way to being a medical researcher, or some program that has intensive studies, very focused on his classwork, I would want to pay for everything. Everything. Hope he can intern, etc. A different child I might feel differently.

For me, junior high became very depressing, I was very lonely. My friends started to party, and what happened was I got a job, and the other teens there didn’t party. The young adults who worked there were focused and hard working. I no longer had the pressure of needing to fit in with my friends who had now become interested in drinking, and making out at parties. I was not even going to the parties, I was just home stuck with my parents. My new friends were a huge relief, and the job gave me a lot of confidence. Girls tend to have trouble with confidence and self esteem.

I don’t think I helped? My answers were a little all over the place. Maybe at least I gave you a little brainstorming.

@cockswain

Not a bad approach. You know your own child far better than I ever could. If you think she will respond to this approach, by all means run with it. : )

Far too many parents do not understand ( or even KNOW ) their own children! It’s foolish to prescribe a “one-size-fits-all” approach for kids, something I was guilty of doing when my kids were pre-teens. If there’s one thing I learned from having five children, it’s that everyone can be as different from the others as night is from day.

@CaptainHarley It seems we agree again.

Thanks for your answers. I appreciate another perspective. It’s difficult to come up with effective parenting ideas, so I value you taking the time to offer your opinion.

@JLeslie

[ Faints! ] **THUD** ; ))

@CaptainHarley Stop it! LOL. We don’t disagree that often do we?

hehehe! : D

@cockswain Our oldest son started his sophomore year in college this past month. He’s in the top percent of his class at the moment. My husband and I are in a bit of a disagreement about him getting a part time job. I was fortunate to have a father who paid my way through college until my grades slipped; my husband was on his own at the age of 16. As you can see, we have very different backgrounds where family support is concerned. My husband wants our son to get a part time job to help pay his way. I’m supportive of our son putting all of his energy towards keeping his good grades. yikes. I’m not really helping, am I. It’s hard enough for our family to agree on the subject. I do like your idea though and I see nothing wrong with it. =)

@jonsblond When your father stopped paying for everything regarding school, did your grades come back up again?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with students building up “sweat equity” in their own futures.

@JLeslie I was in California, my parents were in Illinois. I moved back home to IL and got a job. I then met Jon. I went back to school when I was 25 and graduated with high honors with an Associates degree in Travel/Tourism. I paid for school this time around.