Do you consider someone who had (or wants to have) sexual alignment surgery to be the gender in their mind, the gender they were born with, or the gender of their biology?

Can I answer on a theoretical basis? I don’t think I know anyone that’s had the surgery, to my knowledge.

@incendiary_dan – Sure, you can! Let’s both be careful not to start a flame war, eh? :-p

I consider gender (as in the norms associated with different biological sexes) to be a social construct that, nonetheless, is an integral part of many people’s identities (both trans and non-trans). As a gender non conforming person, I’d rather not have any one gender so surgery doesn’t make sense to me, but that’s just how it is for one person. Clearly, since my partner is with me, he’s not your usual straight guy because his partner isn’t a woman (even if that’s how I’m read) and his views align with mine on the whole necessity of gender as a binary thing.

I’m in the “nature vs. nurture” camp and believe that gender is part biology and part social conditioning, both.

I am also a student of psychology and feel that some gender issues are of a psychological nature as well.

Hetero female who has had a couple of same sex ‘explorations’ but definitly all about penises. lol
A multi-faceted thing with lots of gray areas no doubt.

I have never been with a woman who was once a man. I do not think I would get romantically involved only because it would be disingenuous on my part. The lynch pin for me would be the ability to have children, yeah it would be the same deal with a natural woman too, took that from your sails. Casual dating, going out to have some fun, I could see myself doing that. Knowing I had the option to have my own kids is a biggie, I am not going to lie.

As far as their mind, their chromosomes, or their anatomy goes it is quite hard to ignore the anatomy even if you can ignore the chromosomes. Surgeons fabricated the anatomy, if they had the hardware they would be able to house a baby or provide the “bullet” to get the whole process started. The fact they have to take hormone treatments reminds you they lack the chromosomes.

It has fascinated me, I always wanted to get inside their noggin to understand why is it they feel they should have been the other sex as oppose to those who feel they are in the right body but just identify with the opposite sex.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – I think I understand your uniary (non binary) view of humanity. There’s no sex or gender, just people, some of whom are concave and some of whom are convex. But those are labels, too, I guess. When talking about medical issues or science, I’m not sure if it’s possible to get away from labels. You have to be able to talk about who makes the baby and who plants it :-p

My sister was unhappy with me for refering to Divine as “she”.
I felt it was a form of respecting their wishes.
If the surgery has been done, I will call them whatever their new gender is.
If they are cross-dressers, and want to be called by the sex they dress as, I will accommodate.

What does it matter?

I’ll first assume that someone is whatever gender they outwardly appear to be. If they dress in a stereotypically male or female manner and/or present themselves as male or female, that’s what I’ll assume them to be. If a person were to prefer me to think them otherwise, then I would.

I only know one person who is planning to have surgery, and not very well, either. I consider him to be male, because that’s what he considers himself to be (although he’s not yet biologically male).

It doesn’t matter to me as long as it doesn’t matter to them.

I’m anxious as to which words I can or cannot use in my answer now…
Plus, I think that these two sequencing sentences don’t mix well: “Again, please be civil. When replying to some moron who dares to disagree with you,”
If I had met a nice girl and I had dated some times and I started to develop feelings for her, then I think that I would have feelings for the girl.
Were she a man in the past, then I think I would be surprised and awestruck, but I would like to think that it wouldn’t bother me in a way that I would undate her.
I am an etc.

I consider people to be of the gender they consider themselves to be.

@rebbel – I was being facetious when I said that. C’mon, take a joke :-p

But yeah, questions about gender and sexuality have historically resulted in flame wars, so I wanted to be anal about being civil and diplomatic. And some of what I said to that extent, I quoted from @Hypocrisy’s similar question.

I will treat you as whatever gender you want to be treated, however I will always consider you the gender you are born with.

I used to hang out with a drag queen called Carlota at a club I worked in. When he was Carlos I reffered to him as a he, when she was Carlota I would use the word her. However I always considered him a he.

It takes a lot of effort to be a drag queen, I would assume it takes even more effort to have a sex change operation. Put in the effort and I’ll put in the effort to acknowledge it.

@HungryGuy I believe you, of course. I think the fact that there were only written words that I could interpret (no body language, no eye to eye contact and stuff) made me react how I reacted.
Plus, my answer was a bit facetious too :-)

@rebbel – Right. The lack of body language and eye contact is a serious roadblock to peaceful discussion of controversial topics. Some people don’t like smileys (or emoticons), but they serve as a substitute for body language and eye contact ;-)

I consider them as the gender they consider themselves to be, even if that is no gender at all. (I admit I have trouble with the pronouns for non-gendered persons, though.) I’m nearly positive that if I were dating someone and found out they’d had a sex change, I’d keep right on dating them.

I would prefer to be told fairly early on. It just seems like a huge part of a person’s life history. I can totally see why people might not be comfortable sharing this information immediately, though.

I think I’d viewing them as having Schrödinger genitalia.

While I have never dated anyone like that, I have known a couple of lesbians trapped in mens bodies. I am not sure about one of them, but I know that the other has a gay brother and a lesbian sister. Since all three of them had a normal upbringing, I am inclined to believe that biology plays a rather large role; nature trumps nurture.

Since gender is the social construct concerning sex (among other things) and not physical sex itself, it stands to reason that I should defer to someone’s gender identification. If I was in a relationship with someone who was physically female but identified otherwise, I’d respect that, as I would if I was dating a post-op male-to-female who identified as a woman. Being a hetero male-bodied person, I’m attracted to female bodies (as well as other aspects), not feminine social constructs.

@HungryGuy Sure, if your kid asks how babies are made. But, other than that one lesson, I don’t see how it needs to come up all the time in our lives.

I have never been in this situation, but I really struggle to imagine that I would have a problem with it.
The actual scenario, that is. That is not including any emotional upheaval, changes in personality, there are just so many variables that could affect the relationship as a result of such a transition. Not necessarily the physical transition.
However, I am not and have never been attracted to a person based on their genitals. I have never been able to differentiate my own attraction to people, regardless of their biological sex or appearance, or anything like that. I am just attracted to some people, and I’m not attracted to other people. I don’t really know how else to explain it. I don’t label myself as bisexual or fluid or queer, although I’m sure any of those would be sufficient. I really struggle to understand people who are attracted by gender, especially if it is only one specifically. Not that I don’t respect or appreciate that, it is just such a foreign concept to me that I have a hard time understanding what it is like.

I consider their gender to be whatever they feel it is in their mind. I consider their sex to be whatever the current arrangement of their genitals is. I consider their chromosomes to be (for the time being) permanent, and only relevant for certain medical issues – so if I’m not their doctor, and they don’t have a sex-chromosome illness I’m helping them through, totally irrelevant.

@ANef_is_Enuf – It was once believed that a person’s sexual orientation (i.e., the sex of other people that a person is attracted to sexually) was determined by cultural cues. It’s now believed to be largely biological, due to having discovered different brain chemistry between heterosexuals and homosexuals (though that begs the question: which is the cause and which the effect?). And if sexual orientation is determined by brain chemistry (and not the other way around), I think it will probably take more research to understand why some people are attracted to only one gender exclusively, while others (like you and Simone) don’t differentiate or exclude prospective lovers by gender.

@HungryGuy sure, I agree. Of course there is mounting evidence to support the genetic factor, it will be interesting when more conclusive stuff comes to light. In the meanwhile, it’s just something that interests me. I don’t ever expect to fully understand what it is like for other people, and I doubt that many of us can anyhow, it would still be kind of cool to understand more of the inner-workings behind it.
Also, I’m not sure that it matters, but @Simone_De_Beauvoir and I may have similarities in our sexual preferences, we vary a bit in our opinions of gender. My personal lack of interest in gender or biological sex is exclusively related to attraction, where Simone’s beliefs go far beyond that into social activism and psychological implications. Not that it is particularly important to point it out, I just wanted to clarify.

@ANef_is_Enuf – I know that :-p

Simone and I have gotten into heated discussions regarding the activist/political side of this issue in the past…

Well, I was just saying, just in case. It is quite different. :)

@HungryGuy I don’t remember this. No discussion I forget is a heated one. :)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – That’s good :-)

@rebbel, you are a poet.

What’s the difference between gender they were born with and gender of their biology? Isn’t that gender encoded in their genes? Do you mean the gender of their physiognomy? Gender of their mind?

In any case, I’m not sure what I would do. I’m pretty sure that a man who changed his genitals into those of a woman would still be a man to me in terms of my affections. I could be friends, but I don’t think I would want to be lovers.

IMO, mind trumps anatomy and DNA. If a person feels like they are the opposite of what their body tells them or they feel like they are asexual, then they are. And I’d treat them in the fashion they prefer.

I consider them to be whatever gender they consider themselves to be, and will treat them as they’d like to be treated.