Social Question

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Medicating with your kid(s) with medical marijuana, what are the pros and cons?

Asked by Hypocrisy_Central (20254 points ) December 12th, 2013

Say a person has back problems, and their teen child (16–17ish) supposedly has ADD or ADHD and they decide to pool their money to get more pot and lit up together; what would be the pros or cons to such an arrangement?

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111 Answers

johnpowell's avatar

@Fox_News. You are making shit up and short skirts doesn’t mean you want to be raped.

Katniss's avatar

There are no pros! Smoking weed with your teenager is all con.
Hey junior, lets go out beyond that there pickup truck and light one up. Make sure yer maw ain’t lookin.

YARNLADY's avatar

Using brain altering sustances on children is criminal. Their brains have’t even fully developed yet. You have no idea what you could be interferring with.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Really HC are smoking your socks ? ?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

I don’t have kids, just to let you know.

Juels's avatar

Strangely, I have a bad back (several bad disks, pinched nerves, etc.) and my 16 year old daughter is ADD. So, I do understand how someone craves relief from the pain, but I still won’t get high with my kid. I don’t see any pros to that situation.

Seek's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Thank your gods…

If the parent and child both have prescriptions, who feckin’ cares? That would be similar to saying a 16 year old shouldn’t take his antibiotics under parental supervision.

But, as far as I know, marijuana is not prescribed for children. So in that case, the use by the child wouldn’t be an approved medical use. Recreational marijuana is for persons 18 and older.

DWW25921's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr <—— Yeah! What she said! Well, ya made this one easy for me…

Rarebear's avatar

I think any physician who gives a minor a prescription for marijuana should be brought up before their state medical review boards and have their licenses revoked. Seriously.

Seek's avatar

^ I recently ran into a person whose five year old had prescriptions for Adderall in the daytime and Klonopin at night. I want to throttle that doctor.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Thomas Szasz would have much to say about that.

What I have to say is that the doctor is a quack and the parents are idiots.

bolwerk's avatar

@Rarebear is more competent than a doctor to decide what to prescribe to a patient in his/her care. So was John Ashcroft.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Actually pure thc is known to lessen seizures in some children, not mj, so I’m not judging it’s medical apps.

Rarebear's avatar

And a damn good one too. Just ask me. :-)

Rarebear's avatar

@KNOWITALL “Actually pure thc is known to lessen seizures in some children, not mj, so I’m not judging it’s medical apps.”

Please show me a study comparing safety and efficacy between pure THC and antiepileptic medications. For me to take it seriously, it needs to be in a peer reviewed medical journal and be a well designed RCT.

bolwerk's avatar

@livelaughlove21: ...but is not familiar with the hypothetical patient and his/her needs.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@Rarebear Indeed. This pretty much sums up how I feel about Szasz:

“They do have some good points, but they go way overboard.”

I think his point of view is fascinating and I agree that we’re over-medicating children because they’re “hyper” or hard to control (no reason to be on Adderall in elementary school), but they do go a bit far and the Sceientology thing really squicks me out.

@bolwerk Which is why he made a general statement, not one that was necessarily specific to the hypothetical child. It’s called having an opinion. He’s allowed, and probably more qualified than most of us, to make such a statement.

Seek's avatar

@livelaughlove21 The parents are idiots. I tend to count on doctors to be well educated, as a buffer, though.

bolwerk's avatar

@livelaughlove21: “I think any physician who gives a minor a prescription for marijuana should be brought up before their state medical review boards and have their licenses revoked. Seriously.”

General indeed. So general it covers every hypothetical situation without an iota of critical distinction between them.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@bolwerk Perhaps you can tell us when you think it’s appropriate to give children marijuana and why, if you object so strongly to his viewpoint, rather than use sarcasm with nothing to back it up.

bolwerk's avatar

@livelaughlove21: I wasn’t being sarcastic in the least. And stop moving goalposts.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@bolwerk ”@Rarebear is more competent than a doctor to decide what to prescribe to a patient in his/her care. So was John Ashcroft.”

Sounds like sarcasm to me. My goalposts are stationary. Stop evading.

Rarebear's avatar

Hey, I’m right here.

My opinion stands, and I will expand it. Any adult who gives their kid tobacco, marijuana, alcohol, or any other drug is committing child abuse. Any doctor who encourages it should be hauled up before state medical review boards.

bolwerk's avatar

@livelaughlove21: Evade what, precisely? I clearly think it’s appropriate for a doctor to prescribe medical marijuana for a condition that calls for medical marijuana. Causing people to suffer for their own good because of their age isn’t do them any favors. It’s just indiscriminate authoritarianism.

@Rarebear: any adult who does not teach their kid to handle substances is doing a crappy job as a parent, and setting them up for harm later in life.

kounoupi's avatar

Marijuana to a minor? No.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@bolwerk Evading my question, obviously. Now you’ve answered it. Thanks. I’m just not convinced medical marijuana is ever “called for” in a child. The hypothetical child has ADHD – so give him some weed! Yes, that’s exactly what the medical profession should do. Yes, we should teach our kids how to “handle substances” by giving said substances to them ourselves. Sounds like the parent of the year to me.

Rarebear's avatar

@bolwerk You can teach a kid about alcohol, tobacco, and drugs without getting them stoned.

bolwerk's avatar

@livelaughlove21: Um, I didn’t give you any information you didn’t already have and evaded absolutely nothing. Given how relatively harmless marijuana is compared to legal substances like sugary sodas or even alcohol, I don’t see why this is necessary, but if you insist maybe I could understand a panel of doctors approving such a decision. That’s at least a reasonable position that would weigh the interests of the child. I just don’t see why the unfounded, dogmatic fatwas of Ayatollah Rarebare or Mullah livelaughlove21 should override a rational, evidence-based decision that could at the very least relieve a lot of pain and perhaps save someone’s life. Funny how I’m the only one obligated to justify my position here.

If parents don’t teach their kids how to handle potentially dangerous substances, then frat bros probably will. I suspect parents would do a better job. Most are going to try them, and bans will only make them do it more stupidly.

@Rarebear: but you don’t have to. There is no reason not to let feeling the effects of alcohol and at least some drugs be a teacher so their effects are fully understood.

Rarebear's avatar

Yes there is. It’s irresponsible and illegal.

bolwerk's avatar

It’s irresponsible because @Rarebear says so. He doesn’t need a reason, and he can ignore the evidence to the contrary.

Obviously, it’s illegal because of busybodies who think the state should be regulating matters better left to the family the community. Not because the law has to make sense. The state literally outlaws parents giving their children responsible guidance about drugs.

glacial's avatar

I respect you, @Rarebear, but saying parents who give their children alcohol are committing child abuse? By that standard, most European adults should be in jail.

Rarebear's avatar

@glacial I’ve never raised a kid in Europe so I can’t comment on that. But if parents in Europe are getting their children wasted on alcohol and marijuana then yes. It’s child abuse.

Rarebear's avatar

@bolwerk Okay, I call your bluff. Show me the “evidence to the contrary” that getting your kids stoned is good for them.

bolwerk's avatar

@Rarebear: Who said anything about getting kids wasted or stoned? Not me. Not anyone else that I can see, except you. Most of us can enjoy a drink without getting wasted. I certainly could and did when I was 16.

Rarebear's avatar

@bolwerk Both you and @KNOWITALL say that you have evidence that giving marijuana to children is beneficial. Show it to me.

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear I said nothing about getting kids wasted. But it is common practice to let minors have a small amount of wine with dinner. Very common. This happened in my family, too, and not one of us is an alcoholic. Alcohol is viewed very differently between these cultures.

Drinking alcohol and getting wasted are not the same thing. Lighten up a little.

bolwerk's avatar

@Rarebear: There are so many things wrong with your assumptions I don’t even know where to begin. “Children” describes a massive range of developmental stages, for one. You can’t possibly think a 17-year-old is the same thing as a 12-year-old or that either is the same as 5-year-old. I said nothing about any evidence I have; I said I don’t see why a doctor can’t make a rational, evidence-based decision to prescribe medical marijuana if s/he has reason to think it benefits his/her patient. Like, what’s the worst that will happen? The patient will get the munchies? Wait, that might be the point.

And the only evidence to defend your ridiculous contentions about abuse you have offered is moral indignation about drugs. I mean, come on. I don’t buy the stoner line that marijuana is all fun with no downsides, but any rational observer has to realize it’s not that dangerous as mind-altering substances go either and most of the problems with it are from long-term use.

And I don’t see what @KNOWITALL said that was so offensive, except that she wasn’t sure.

@glacial: alcohol is of the devil, and it makes people drop like flies. Oh, wait!

Rarebear's avatar

I’m still not seeing any evidence.

rojo's avatar

Come on guys, be honest, how many of you had not smoked pot before you were seventeen and how many of you are completely fucked up because of it?

cazzie's avatar

I’m 45 and still have never touched the stuff. I think a person can be educated about something without trying it. I know enough about my personality, finally, to know that I might get obsessive about something. At 16, I didn’t know that about myself and if I had gone that way, instead of joining ‘Future Business Leaders of America’ I’d probably have gone the same way as a few of my siblings did.

Teen age brains are still very under-developed. They ARE children. So many things go on when the hormones kick in and growth spurts happen, the brain has MORE than enough to cope with without adding foreign substances.

I’ve seen someone, as an adult, be prescribed ADHD meds for ADD and abuse them. I also had to give my son the same type of meds last spring when he was diagnosed with ADHD and witnessed the horrible effect of them (they didn’t work as the doctor said they would and his weight loss, irritability and lack of sleep was horrible.) Drugs are a tool and sometimes a very dangerous tool but I think the medical community over prescribes because actually treating the disease has been put in the ‘too hard’ basket. Cognitive therapy is difficult and time consuming and I am discovering that family/friends and employers prefer the quick… ‘Just give him that drug’ option instead. Support? What support?

Amphetamines, pot and alcohol are addictive. Some people handle it. Some people don’t. I don’t like gambling.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@bolwerk “I said nothing about any evidence I have”

Really?

“It’s irresponsible because @Rarebear says so. He doesn’t need a reason, and he can ignore the evidence to the contrary.”

Still waiting on this evidence you speak of.

@rojo I’ve never tried marijuana or any other drug. I’ve never even tried a cigarette. Neither has my husband. My parents smoked weed when I was growing up and they still do, but they certainly never offered me any so I’d know how to “handle” it. Such irresponsible parents, not giving drugs to their children.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Rarebear It shocks me so many readily dismiss something that could help people. I’ll try to link later.

KNOWITALL's avatar

BTW, if someone told me grinding up acorns in my husband coffee would prevent life-threatening seizures, I’d do it. If you’ve never faced a situation like that where you are willing to do anything to keep someone alive and breathing, I feel like it’s so wrong to judge.

A parent will do anything to save their child and most of you know that. The question is what wouldn’t you do to save your child?

The special I watched showed an autistic child seizing non-stop until she took an illegal dose of pure thc, and you know other proponents are doing th same thing, risking jail time on several sides of this equation. I’m skeptical that these law-abiding people would ever risk losing their child unless it really worked.

Rarebear's avatar

So your evidence is an anecdote that you saw on TV?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Rarebear No, I don’t think work is really an appropriate place to go through a lot of that material and my phone can’t handle it, sorry. I’ll try at some point this weekend to find you official medical proof. Xanax has anti-seizure components, why are you so skeptical?

I will not be ashamed to say “I know not,” nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient’s recovery.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

To me, you owe it to your fellow man to research this in depth before forming a negative judgement.

Rarebear's avatar

You’re the one who said there was evidence. I’m just asking you to share it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Rarebear And I’m saying that a medical study may be difficult to find if it exists because doctors are persecuted for just prescribing it, and that’s the only thing you’ll accept as evidence.

When it’s appropriate timing, I’ll make the time to find that for you and share it. The point is that until it is decriminalized, we may not know the full extent of it’s healing powers.

I know for a fact that non-smokers in a medical crisis, such as pancreatic cancer, often benefit from the nausea relief and hunger stimulating portions of the herb. My father in law never tried it until he was almost dead, then he sought any relief and it worked.

Even if that was the only application, which I’m sure it is not, and the patient was a child, I wouldn’t see it as criminal at all.

Applicable—
http://www.openbible.info/topics/herbs_for_healing

Rarebear's avatar

@KNOWITALL I’m not debating that many cancer patients get benefit from marijuana. There is evidence for that. I’m specifically referring to your claim about the use of marijuana in children.

Rarebear's avatar

And you’re really going to use a website that talks about Bible verses as evidence for that? You know me better than that.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Rarebear Maybe one of the many articles below will be useful, but perhaps not scientific enough for your tastes.

My point with that is that there have been healers throughout history who used natural plants to cure illnesses so I think it’s silly to think we’ve explored all medicinal properties of all natural plants. Even some of us who may not believe in recreational use for funzies acknowledge that medical applications are real and needed, for adults and children.

www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/
www.dailyutahchronicle.com/?p=2596306‎Cached
www.epilepsycolorado.org/index.php?s=10784&item=5985‎Cached
Similar
www.epilepsy.com › ... › Community Forum › Teen Group‎Cached
Similar
www.pennlive.com/.../seizures_marijuana_medical_gup.html‎Cached
www.the-scientist.com › The Scientist › News & Opinion › Daily News‎
www.examiner.com/.../families-flock-to-colorado-for-incredible-marijua...‎Cached
rxmarijuana.com/epilepsy.htm

Rarebear's avatar

@KNOWITALL Please learn about the ancient wisdom fallacy, and the appeal to nature fallacy

First article is a news report. Not medical evidence

Second article is a news report. Not medical evidence

Third article is an article that says in the second paragraph, “There is, however, very little scientific literature to back up these claims.”

Fourth link is just to an epilepsy site without a link to support your claim.

Fifth link is broken

Sixth link is a science news magazine I’ve never heard of and doesn’t have a link that supports your claim.

Seventh link is broken.

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear What evidence are you looking for, exactly? I’m having trouble following this. It sounds like you want evidence that marijuana affects seizures in children specifically. Is that it? I’m not sure how that’s the only evidence that will refute your claim that children should not be given medical marijuana, or any other controlled substance.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Rarebear Sorry, I was trying to give you something…lol

The long term effects of cannabis have been the subject of ongoing debate. Because cannabis is illegal in most countries, research presents a challenge; as such there remains much to be concluded.- Wki

http://www.epilepsycolorado.org/index.php?s=10784&item=5985

David says the compound, called cannabidiol, or CBD, reduces the frequency and severity of Jayden’s seizures, and that he has weaned the boy off strong prescription medications. Jayden has Dravet syndrome, a severe disorder in children that often forces desperate parents to try numerous drugs to control the intractable seizures, with limited results.

Read more here: http://www.modbee.com/2013/08/09/2855216/as-modesto-dad-treats-son-with.html#storylink=cpy

Some people with grand mal seizures say they can prevent their seizures entirely by smoking marijuana. Others, who suffer complex partial seizures, report that marijuana also curbs their symptoms and prevents loss of consciousness.
Some patients find that marijuana works in conjunction with other drugs they are taking. Others find that marijuana works best for them when it is used without other drugs. Either way, these epileptic patients have made marijuana a necessary part of their medical treatment.
People using marijuana to control epilepsy should be aware that withdrawal from any medication that controls seizures might leave you more susceptible to the seizures. Marijuana is no exception. Patients with epilepsy are advised to exercise caution when using oral THC because there is not sufficient knowledge about the convulsive or anti-convulsive properties of the single compound.

SCIENCE
The anticonvulsant properties of marijuana may be the oldest of its known medical benefits. Marijuana was used as a medicine for epilepsy by ancient societies in China, Africa, India, Greece and Rome. Written testimonies of its usefulness, such as the one by Dr. W.B. O’Shaughnessy appeared in Western scientific journals in the 19th century. Dr. O’Shaughnessy’s classic account of the uses of marijuana in India was published by the Ohio Medical Society in 1860.
There is some contradictory data about marijuana having both convulsive and anticonvulsive effects. Throughout the mid 1970’s and early 1980’s, Dr. Paul Consroe of the University of Arizona, conducted a number of studies using both THC and CBD on animals. He found that while high doses (near lethal) of THC can trigger convulsions in seizure susceptible animals, the administration of cannabidiol (CBD) in similar or higher does not cause convulsions. His studies concluded that CBD might have powerful anticonvulsant properties, which counteract the muscle-exciting effects of THC when both compounds are delivered to the body in marijuana. However, small studies in which cannabidiol alone were administered did not yield consistently favorable results. This may point to the fact that the safest and most effective way to treat epilepsy with marijuana is to use all of its compounds together by smoking the plant rather than ingesting its separate ingredients.

medicalmarijuana.com/experts/expert/title.cfm?artID

Rarebear's avatar

@glacial @KNOWITALL Stated this: “Actually pure thc is known to lessen seizures in some children, not mj, so I’m not judging it’s medical apps.”

@bolwerk stated this: ”...He doesn’t need a reason, and he can ignore the evidence to the contrary.”

I’m asking them simply for the evidence that they state they know. I’m happy to change my opinion on giving THC to minors if I see good evidence to show its use.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Rarebear Believe it or not, though I loathe the way some people treat their children, I believe statements from parents like above.

Another person said their daughter was down significantly from 300+ seizures a day.

“My son’s seizure activity is down dramatically,” David said. “He’s able to walk, swim and ride roller coasters at amusement parks. I used to give him 22 pills a day; now I give him two.”
The CBD is prepared by a Bay Area medical cannabis dispensary, costing about $800 a month for David. It’s not a stimulant, the father said, so it does not give a high to Jayden, who turns 7 next week.

Read more here: http://www.modbee.com/2013/08/09/2855216/as-modesto-dad-treats-son-with.html##storylink=cpy

Leaders of the Maryland-based Epilepsy Foundation will be watching Sunday’s program, a spokesman said. The foundation has devoted $50 million to research resulting in therapies for epilepsy.“We are very excited about anything that helps to reduce seizures, especially for young people who have intractable seizures,” said Ken Lowenberg, vice president of communications. “We have seen this come up a lot, where medical marijuana has been used by people with seizures with various degrees of success. But we don’t have any real scientific evidence to say we can recommend it.“Gupta, chief medical correspondent for CNN, writes that he’s reversed his opposition to medical cannabis after meeting people such as the Colorado family. He adds: “I am especially intrigued by studies like those in Spain and Israel looking at the anti-cancer effects of marijuana and its components.”

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear But then isn’t it sufficient to show that it has beneficial effects as a treatment of human disorders of any kind? Children don’t magically become different entities once they reach an arbitrarily selected age denoting “adultness”.

Rarebear's avatar

@KNOWITALL I’m not sure where to start with this.

Your first link is the same link you did before, which shows there is little good medical evidence supporting the use, especially in children.

That single anecdotal case in the Modesto Bee is sad, but it is not evidence. It’s an anecdotal news article.

Your last paragraph is cut and pasted. They wrote: “But we don’t have any real scientific evidence to say we can recommend it”.

”“I am especially intrigued by studies like those in Spain and Israel looking at the anti-cancer effects of marijuana and its components.”” I’m skeptical of this also, but anti-cancer is not anti-epileptic.

“But then isn’t it sufficient to show that it has beneficial effects as a treatment of human disorders of any kind? Children don’t magically become different entities once they reach an arbitrarily selected age denoting “adultness”.”

You’re conflating the issue. I’m not debating the medical effects of cannibis in some situations. It has been clearly shown to have anti-nausea effects in cancer patients, for instance. But your own links show that there is no medical evidence to support the use of cannibis in children.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Rarebear Anecdotal? That it helped his son live a real life?

Ask questions and do your studies later if it works it works, that’s the practical approach to saving someone whom you love.

Funny enough, I think my own doctor agrees with me, but he also didn’t tell me to get a flu shot remember?! :) Peace doc, it’ll all work out eventually, I just hope a lot of people aren’t suffering in the meantime.

Rarebear's avatar

@KNOWITALL Correct. Anecdotes are not evidence. Or I should be more correct to say that anecdotes are absolutely the worst kind of evidence. Sadly, it’s the level of evidence most people on the internet go to.

livelaughlove21's avatar

I can’t stand when people use anecdotal “evidence” to back up their viewpoint. My husband does that – “Well, it worked for so-and-so” or “my mom raised me like that and I turned out fine.” Well, case closed then! No, show me some legitimate research and then we’ll talk.

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear and @livelaughlove21 Okay, I will ask these questions explicitly:

Do you think that marijuana is ineffective as a medical treatment for any disorder or illness? If it is ineffective, why is it prescribed by doctors as a treatment for certain medical issues?

If marijuana can be effective as a medical treatment, why should children not be eligible for these benefits? Keeping in mind that the definition of “child” differs regionally, is there an age above which they should become eligible for these benefits? Why that age?

Rarebear's avatar

“Do you think that marijuana is ineffective as a medical treatment for any disorder or illness?” No, I do not think that.

“If marijuana can be effective as a medical treatment, why should children not be eligible for these benefits?” If there is valid medical evidence to support its use (not a blog post or a newspaper article) then fine.

“Keeping in mind that the definition of “child” differs regionally, is there an age above which they should become eligible for these benefits?” The benefit should be available at whatever age the medical evidence shows efficacy.

“Why that age?” Because that’s the age what this hypothetical data would show.

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear “If there is valid medical evidence to support its use (not a blog post or a newspaper article) then fine.”

But, even if neither of us starts looking up articles for its support, you must realize that since doctors are prescribing medical marijuana, there is medical evidence to support its use. Or do you guess that doctors are prescribing it based solely on the basis of blog posts or newspaper articles?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@glacial And at great risk for them as well.

Rarebear's avatar

@glacial But they’re not generally prescribing it for children, which is what the OP is about.

rojo's avatar

I would much rather give them medical pot that the Zoloft/Ritalin cocktails.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@rojo One comes with zero risk of jail time though. It’s interesting to me that so many people risk an underground effort to get this stuff to kids, the parents and suppliers risking LOTS of jail time and losing custody of their kids, but they do it anyway because they believe based on the results.

Basically people are doing their own research studies because of government won’t.

Rarebear's avatar

Ah…yes. The canard of the government conspiracy to keep knowledge from the people.

rojo's avatar

No so much conspiracy as a twofold problem of banning research on it and not allowing it to be funded even privately.

Rarebear's avatar

@rojo Hm. Do you have evidence that the government is banning research, even privately?

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear Are you actually saying that the reason doctors are not prescribing medical marijuana to minors (and I have to take your word for that, because I don’t know that they’re not) is that it would not be efficacious? I would assume that it’s rather because of politics, not science. Can you think of a medical reason why these treatments would be effective on adults and not minors?

Remember – the terms “child”, “minor”, etc. are arbitrary social labels. Surely, you don’t have a reason to expect no effect in a 17-year-old for a treatment that is effective in an 18-year-old.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@glacial I believe medical marijuana can useful in cancer patients undergoing chemo. It reduces nausea and increases their appetites. Is it necessary? No, but that’s another argument and not a particularly relevant one at that.

The fact that it’s illegal (or at least taboo) to prescribe marijuana to children sort of makes this all a moot point. However, my point is that although marijuana may be useful, it’s not necessary, and giving a child an unnecessary mind-altering drug is simply unethical.

I’m wondering why we’re all of a sudden talking about seizures. The child in question has ADHD. Giving him pot will probably calm him down and make him easier for other people to handle, but that’s no reason to give it to him. And that’s exactly why I think we over-medicate our kids with perfectly legal ADHD drugs as well – to control the behaviors the parents deem annoying or unusual. And that’s unacceptable and pure social control.

@Rarebear has made it very clear that although THC has shown to be effective in adults, there is no such evidence regarding children. And regardless of social/cultural views of was a “child” is, individuals under 18 are still developing and should only be on any drug when absolutely necessary, and they should only be on drugs that research deems safe, effective, and appropriate.

glacial's avatar

@livelaughlove21 ”@Rarebear has made it very clear that although THC has shown to be effective in adults, there is no such evidence regarding children”

He hasn’t. He simply resists engaging with @KNOWITALL on this issue until she shows him that there is evidence.

I accept what you say about there being other reasons not to give it to children. But the argument that it could possibly not be effective in children makes no sense to me.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@livelaughlove21 Seizure reduction is one of the underground apps medically that is said to occur from cabinoids or some derivative.

My original point was that there is not enough evidence of the medical applications for me to judge anyone on how they treat their children as far as thc.

Seek's avatar

“Cabinoids” sounds like the title of a campy 70s horror movie.

Rarebear's avatar

sigh. No. @glacial “Are you actually saying that the reason doctors are not prescribing medical marijuana to minors (and I have to take your word for that, because I don’t know that they’re not) is that it would not be efficacious? I would assume that it’s rather because of politics, not science.” No. I’m saying that there is no evidence so it’s outside the standard of care.

” Can you think of a medical reason why these treatments would be effective on adults and not minors?” That’s not the point. There are medications for adults, and medications for children. medications for children are weight based, usually in mg/kg. I’m saying that there is no medical evidence.

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear Then you think that there are physical changes between the arbitrarily chosen age that defines childhood and the arbitrarily chosen age that defines adulthood. I find that fascinating, and I wish you would elaborate.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Probably because the correct word is Cannabinoids.

Rarebear's avatar

@glacial No. I’m saying that there is no medical evidence to show that giving marijuana to children is efficacious. I’m unsure how to make that more clear.

glacial's avatar

@Rarebear I will try one more time. Very simply, there is evidence that giving marijuana to humans is efficacious. Whether giving marijuana to children is efficacious can only be a legitimate question if we expect very different physical responses between children and adults. And if “children” and “adults” are arbitrary social labels, then I find that to be extraordinarily unlikely.

Again, I am not advocating for giving medical marijuana to minors. But your basis for arguing against it makes no sense to me whatsoever. And coming from a medical doctor, I find it rather shocking.

Seek's avatar

Children and Adults are not just arbitrary social labels.

Ritalin, for example, has opposite effects on the brains of children and the brains of adults.

Rarebear's avatar

@glacial Ask any pediatrician. Children are very different physiologic animals than adults.

glacial's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Yes, but there is likely to be a cut-off date between children and adults in terms of brain development that has nothing to do with coming of legal age in whatever region the Ritalin is being prescribed. That is my point.

In any case, we’re not talking about marijuana’s effect on brain function, we’re talking about its effect as, for example, an anti-convulsant or to depress nausea or stimulate hunger. Can you think of a reason that any of these would be affected by age? I’m talking about the difference between a teen and an adult, not the difference between a 3-year old and an adult.

Oy vey, @Rarebear. I think we are done. You are quite deliberately ignoring my point, and you know it.

Seek's avatar

The OP referenced using cannabis to treat a child’s ADD. Marijuana’s effect on brain function of children and adolescents is exactly what we’re talking about.

I’m not a neurologist, so I’m not qualified to answer.

Rarebear's avatar

@glacial I am not ignoring your point. I answered it quite specifically. You are trying to make the point that children are just little adults, and I’m telling you it’s not so.

glacial's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Good point, I had in fact forgotten that the OP asked about ADD, since we’ve gone so far beyond that.

@Rarebear No. I’m really not.

Rarebear's avatar

@glacial okay. Let’s hit reset. What are you trying to tell me that I’m not getting?

bolwerk's avatar

@Rarebear: sorry I don’t have any evidence proving you’re not full of shit. Because that’s what you’re asking me for. You know? You’re the one claiming marijuana is bad here. I didn’t say it was good in general. All I said I don’t think it should be ruled out for minors if it can be prescribed to adults, and you haven’t shown me a single problem with that position. Let’s be honest here: we know that marijuana can’t be shown to be a particularly dangerous drug. You got to have a better case for proscribing it than IT“S [sic] AMORAL HURRRR!

Here is the position of @Rarebear and @livelaughlove21 distilled to its core: they sanctimoniously want something banned, and think everyone else should too.

@glacial: a case could be made that cut-off date is in your 30s.

Seek's avatar

^ Uhm… you are seriously misrepresenting @Rarebear‘s position.

@Rarebear‘s position is “I’m a doctor, and prescribing marijuana is outside the standard of care for minors, and I have seen no evidence to suggest it is effective for use in children. But if you have evidence, please let me see it”.

How do you get ”It’s amoral hurrr!” out of that?

bolwerk's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr: the fuck I am. He claimed that letting (not forcing, but letting) minors use drugs or alcohol is a form of abuse, and he claimed that a doctor – who might have access to information he doesn’t have – should have his license revoked for prescribing medical marijuana for a minor without any consideration for whether it might be a legitimate decision. It’s all in this thread for your review.

Obviously, there is no need for a basis in reality for any of those claims. I asked what the basis was, and @livelaughlove21‘s concerns about people being evasive suddenly evaporated when somebody was actually being evasive. :-O

Mind you: I have said I don’t see a big problem with subjecting medical marijuana for minors to additional scrutiny, but bear in mind we’re talking about marijuana here. The danger level of this drug for American youth is well below soda, fats, cars, and probably guns. A substantial number of minors are using it anyway, and most will move on with their lives the same as anyone else.

@livelaughlove21 offers up a really medically bizarre standard: necessity. I guess you can argue that any kind of pain management is technically unnecessary, except managing and relieving pain is a huge part of the point of medicine. This isn’t even ethics, it’s just blind faith.

Rarebear's avatar

Wow. Okay. Hm. I’m not sure what I did to warrant the invective (imagines spittle flying out of @bolwerk‘s mouth as he is screaming)

Show me the evidence that marijuana is beneficial for children and I will gladly change my position.

bolwerk's avatar

@Rarebear: When did I say marijuana was beneficial for children? Will you stop misrepresenting me? Please? Your reading comprehension skills just can’t be this bad. You’re doing it on purpose. Also, I didn’t use any “invective.”

Here is your burden of proof: (1) show us it’s so dangerous that it’s abusive and (2) whydoctors should have their licenses summarily revoked for prescribing it. It would help if you used more precise terms than “children.”

Rarebear's avatar

@bolwerk Okay, here is where I got that. I’m making the point that there is no medical evidence for children with marijuana, yada yada, and you wrote: “He doesn’t need a reason, and he can ignore the evidence to the contrary.”

I repeat: You wrote, “evidence to the contrary”.

That’s what I’m trying to get out of you. What evidence am I missing?

bolwerk's avatar

@Rarebear: um, besides being evasive (warn @livelaughlove21 there is a case of actual evasiveness, pronto!), you are taking my evidence comment out of context. the “evidence to the contrary” comment was about your comment about responsibility. We’re talking about a drug that doesn’t exactly have many negative short-term side-effects. I’m aware of some possibly troubling side-effects correlating to long-term use. That should be enough evidence that allowing “children” to use it isn’t exactly the moral equivalent of poking a baby’s eyes out or putting your penis into an 8-year-old’s butt.

Meanwhile, knowing short-term use isn’t particularly dangerous, we know it relieves pain and has some other benefits. I’m all for studying the matter, but it’s a little ridiculous to yank a license if there is a medical reason to think prescribing medical marijuana to a suffering minor patient would benefit the patient – at least in extreme cases. It’s fair to say a teenager is capable of weighing the risks and making his/her own informed decision, at least in conjunction with a doctor and his/her parents.

Rarebear's avatar

Oh. My mistake. Sorry. I thought you were talking about my comments on the lack of evidence for medical marijuana for children.

My comments about license yanking and child abuse are purely my personal opinion.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Rarebear Any adult who gives their kid tobacco, marijuana, alcohol, or any other drug is committing child abuse.
Would that include any parent who allows their kid to cop smokes from their pack, or who buys their kids smokes, let them sip a beer while watching the game on TV, and what about the parents that let their children boink their bf or gf in their room with the parent knowing about it; they would be abusing their children from your perspective?

(Generally) Isn’t it strange that in the 70s when Ritalin was developed ADD diagnosis in boys went off the chart?

livelaughlove21's avatar

You gotta love when Fluther arguments take that nasty turn into pointless defensiveness and desperate belittling. I bowed out, not because any concern of mine evaporated, but because I don’t care nearly enough about this topic to constantly repeat what I’ve already said because someone has resorted to putting words in my mouth in an attempt to make my point of view sound crazy. I’m out. Go ahead, perhaps now you can claim that I just said that drugs are against God’s path and that’s why parents shouldn’t toke up with their kids.

Rarebear's avatar

Yes, yes, yes, and maybe.

bolwerk's avatar

@livelaughlove21: I don’t see anyone who put words in your mouth, and the closest thing to “belittling” I’ve seen here is @Rarebear‘s strawmen and your double standards and false accusation of evasiveness. You simply refused to defend your position with, um, logic, evidence, even a well-thought out exposition on ethics, something, expecting me to put blind faith in Rarebear’s still unsubstantiated opinion based on an unsubstantiated credential. That is what brought on the Mullah comment.

Rarebear's avatar

Unsubstantiated credential? Do you believe I am lying when I say I’m a physician?

bolwerk's avatar

@Rarebear: no, but I don’t really care either. To your credit, you never used at as a reason why you are right. @livelaughlove21 did.

jazmina88's avatar

They can take the THC out and make CBD rich oils which help the seizures without the buzz. It can help children with seizures, where nothing else has worked. MMJ helps nausea and should be geared towards adults.
Adderall is over prescribed and more dangerous than we realize.
I have an older sister who is on morphine due to pain. and out of her head, and there is no excuse for that either. she is still an addict.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Devil’s advocate Why would a doctor be a quack worthy of being drawn and quartered for writing a script for medical marijuana for a minor if said minor has sever depression or extreme ADD or ADHD, but not for writing a script for a minor for morphine in cases of severe pain?

Seek's avatar

Because morphine’s already been tested and approved for use in cases of extreme pain in children.

bolwerk's avatar

Morphine is a highly addictive substance. Marijuana is not.

The operative difference is morphine makes drug companies moolah, and marijuana probably does not.

Paradox25's avatar

I’m pro legalization, but I have to admit that a great deal of pseudoinformation out there concerning cannabis is not helping the cause much. There’s strong evidence that in adolescents using alcohol or marijuana their developing brains can produce abnormalities, especially with heavier use. Also, these effects can be permanent or last a few years after stopping usage.

Rarebear's avatar

What @Paradox25 said. Exactly.

bolwerk's avatar

Maybe the effect is for the better, given how stupid weed- and alcohol-deprived Amerikan kids are. :(

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