Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

Can I get other opinions on the following report?

Asked by Dutchess_III (27629 points ) February 21st, 2014

I have a friend on FB who does not believe climate change is real, and disputes the figure of 97% of experts that claim that it is. This is what he provided for his evidence. I need some opinions on this, other than my own.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

25 Answers

glacial's avatar

You could hunt down the sources listed here. I haven’t looked at his research at all, which would be a good thing to do before posting it to your friend.

I found this link via “I Fucking Love Science”, who posted it some time ago.

flutherother's avatar

The evidence you were shown is from the ‘Friends of Science Society’ an organisation that was set up by the Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists with the specific purpose of debunking climate change. I would call it propaganda rather than science.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@flutherother Where did you find who the authors were?

flutherother's avatar

@Dutchess_III I googled ‘Friends of Science Society’ and found their Wikipedia entry.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

There is much propaganda about this on both sides. I’m done listening to anyone who says “consensus” “proof” “debunked” “fake” The only evidence I have seen is with the doubling of Co2 in the atmo. That’s not good. We understand the how greenhouse gasses work very well. We do NOT understand the feedback mechanisms that will either amplify or attenuate those effects very well. We need to clean up our energy sources but we don’t need to tax Co2 and then do nothing. People read propaganda on both sides and spew drivel from their armchairs. I would love to hear what real climatologists have to say and not hearsay. Directly. I’m guessing that they will say it is serious but we need to study it more and that they are frustrated with both alarmists and complete denial.

glacial's avatar

Blah, blah, blah false equivalence blah, blah.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I don’t think it is equivalent at all. I think we need to clean shit up. I’m just beyond tired of hearing people screaming doom and gloom or “just ignore it” when they really don’t have a f***ing clue what the future will be like. Stop arguing and just do something about it that makes sense. There is no debate that it is a good idea to start living sustainably.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@flutherother That’s why I live here and call you guys family! Or…at least cousins. Thank you. I guess that says it all.

Kropotkin's avatar

Ask your friend to find peer-reviewed research papers that conclude that climate change isn’t real.

When your friend comes back and struggles to find even one such paper, he or she might understand what scientific consensus means.

glacial's avatar

@Kropotkin‘s approach is really the only thing that will convince him. First, you will have to explain what peer-review is.

trailsillustrated's avatar

You can find ‘proof’ that the earth is flat and the moon is hollow if you search the internet enough.

Coloma's avatar

If the person is that ignorant don’t even bother to attempt to prove anything.
Jesus, sorry, but….unless you like banging your head against a brick wall you are not going to enlighten the blind. Do not cast your global warming pearls before the swine is smoked. lolol

Cruiser's avatar

I am currently in the same camp as your friend @Dutchess_III I always say follow the money. Right now there is a global gamble on Carbon Credits being the next Gold Rush for the corporate entities that smell blood in the water. What could be a more perfect shell game that Global warming that to date has yet to be scientifically established as a man made problem that need drastic measures to combat. These “investors” see opportunity in an emotionally charged dynamic as climate change…and will flood the media with all sorts of reports and studies that say it is so with little to no empiracle evidence to support these assertions. Remember this is high stakes wagering that little people like you and me cannot possibly comprehend…global warming means big time profits for the companies that can capitalize on the fears they want us to succumb to. If they win…Governments will give these companies Carte Blance to have at it and rake in trillions of dollars in remedies for this so called Global Warming….sad reality is it is us the tax payers who foot the bill for this snake oil campaign.

Like I say all the time…follow the money and you will see who is driving this trend and after the winter I just went through it sure ain’t Mother Nature.

Coloma's avatar

Well CA. is the driest it’s been in decades. We have been in a about a 4 year semi-drought and now a serious drought. I have no doubt that things are shifting and that us billions of humans are 90% responsible. You east coasters are freezing and flooding and we’re freaking severely dehydrated out west.

I agree there is fear mongering but to deny that there are too many freaking humans and cars and factories and other sources of planetary and atmospheric destruction is insane.
I blame 90% of my severe allergies on atmospheric pollution.

ETpro's avatar

@Cruiser The global fossil fuel industry brings in $40 trillion per year. How much do carbon credits bring it. Follow the money, not the propaganda the money buys.

Cruiser's avatar

@ETpro Carbon Credits are merely a tax on the emissions from 40 trillions dollars worth of fossil fuels and a shell game that enables players in the market to continue to pollute the atmosphere without abandon and continue to affect how our climate behaves. I don’t know about you but I would love to have a small slice of that 142 Billion dollars per year pie.

hominid's avatar

@Cruiser – So I can understand this one, you are stating that there is a grand conspiracy among scientists from all over the world and from every discipline to fake research and rig the models in order to make money for…? How long has this conspiracy been going on, and is it likely to live on much longer? And do you find that science overall is particularly susceptible to such grand conspiracies? If so, what others should we be aware of?

ETpro's avatar

@Cruiser Yes, yes. But we were talking about following the REAL money, right? Just how much real money has this grand, worldwide conspiracy involving virtually all scientists in climatology, NASA, the European Space Agency, and most of the politicians and staff of the world’s governments netted from carbon credits to date. Here is a hint. Zero dollars.

Golly, when 1,000,000 conspirators divide up $0.00 that doesn’t leave much for each conspirator. Yet your claim is these underfunded conspirators have caused glaciers worldwide to melt, the CO2 content of the atmosphere to double since the beginning of the industrial revolution, all the record warmest years to cluster in the past 2 decades, the polar sea ice to disappear and sea levels to rise enough to now threaten nations like the Maldives with extinction. These conspirators really know how to get lots done on a tight budget. Maybe we just ought to turn over management of things to them, them being so cost efficient and all.

Cruiser's avatar

@hominid I am suggesting that corporations are trading carbon credits in order to continue to skirt EPA regulations and continue to burn fossil fuels polluting our atmosphere are adding to this “global warming” everyone is harping about. If you want to bring about reforms to pollution standards it seems to me silly to me to create an arena where corporations can trade carbon credits to continue to pollute unabated.

@ETpro What you linked to is nothing more that an op ed on the scams behind investors being duped by carbon credit scams and has zero to do with the real industrial trade exchange of carbon credits by the companies that need to continue to pollute in order to produce their products without having to do so with very costly equipment needed to comply with Federal EPA pollution regulations.

Again all this is a shell game invented to appease the public to make it appear something is being done about greens house emissions. The real scam is the government makes all these rules and regulations and do little to enforce them….had the Government enforced the rules they have in place then there is no chance that the Exon oil spill in the gulf would have ever happened. Like I said over and over….follow the money and it will lead you to the offices of CEO’s all over the world that depend on flimsy unenforced legislation regulated by a legion of government workers who will gladly turn a blind eye to ensure the re-election of their guy in Congress. And both sides of the isle are guilty in this regard.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t even know how to find peer-reviewed reports, or how to know if I’m even looking at one.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It usually requires a subscription or a membership to a university library. If you just need one study you can simply pay for a copy. Rarely, they are free to download. Most people who do the copy-paste thing here are not linking or reading real studies. They are linking and reading reports about those studies written by pundits who put their spin on them.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Here is my most recent argument in a very civiliazed debate. I’m enjoying it.

Randy said “If money is the only motivating factor then ALL reports have to be suspect”

I said, “Sure, it’s all suspect. All we can do is apply our own limited logic and understanding to a situation. This is how I see it:

On one hand you have OPEC saying climate change is bogus and all the technology being developed to address it is nothing but a scam for people to make money, and the government is in on it. IT’S A CONSPIRACY!! Never mind the fact that if we develop alternative energy methods they lose money. Hell, they go broke.

But lets say we AREN’T causing a climate change. We STILL have the obvious problem of running out of fossil fuels. The technology that is being developed to address that is exactly the SAME technology we would use to combat climate change. Where is the conspiracy in that?

So whether climate change is real or not, we still need the technology that is being developed, and I’m 100% behind it, even if people DO make money from it.

But OPEC wants to delay all of that for as long as possible.”

Kropotkin's avatar

People spend a lot of time projecting their cynical predatory capitalist values on to scientists.

It seems we’re mostly fine when enjoying all the applications of science, and the vast expansion in the body of knowledge derived from the scientific method. Yet, when it comes to climatology, the scientists are “politicised” and “corrupt” and nothing they say can be trusted.

I’ve got some ideas as to the source of this common perception.

I can readily admit that the conclusions of climatologists may be cynically manipulated. Corporations are already gleefully awaiting the melting of the Arctic ice cap to exploit new shipping lanes and for even more oil exploration—ironic that they are accepting climate change while funding propaganda to deny its existence.

Carbon credits are part of the same ideology—the attempt to apply market mechanisms to controlling CO2 emissions. The market is the God that will solve all problems.

It’s insane, and I’m not sure I want to be around when shit really hits the fan.

Response moderated (Spam)

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther