Do the Democrats have a secret weapon?

Wait, what?!? “I grew out of it, or they just went insane along the way” and yet you’re “looking more deeply into Trump”???

Yah. He says what is on his mind. I don’t agree with all his opinions, but he is deep in the mix, and does not need politics to get by. Well, not more than what he has bought for himself so far from politicians. He has no personal need to hold office. He is a multitasker, and able to juggle numbers with his abacas tied behind his back. He has friends in strange but powerful places. Republicans accuse him of being a democrat, which he used to be. Many say he never stopped. Did you watch the debate? He was the only one to raise his hand for the first question, and he made no apologies for his reasons why.
I think he’s a dem plant.

No secret. The Seventeen Dwarfs are well on the way to self-destructing the Republican party. Democrats don’t need to do anything at all, but watch the comedy unfold.

But is there anyone to run? I would not vote for Hillary at gunpoint.
I concede the repubs have self destructed. What will happen though? Is there a plan for someone to step in who makes sense?
Most repubs, by the way, tend to get real nervous about disclosing their finances. Not Trump. He says, hell yeah I have lots of money, and I am proud of it.

See, that’s what I don’t get. People that like Trump can only say “he says what’s on his mind”. But what’s on his mind is not policy, not ideas, not solutions, not plans – it’s insults, misogyny, bigotry, and “vote for me, I have a lot of money”.

Just as a personal theory, do you also like “reality” tv?

And to actually answer your question, while I don’t care for his personality, Bernie Sanders has thoughtful, progressive ideas that I like very much. My dream ticket would be Elizabeth Warren as president and Bernie as VP. Maybe we can convince Elizabeth for next time around.

I’m not a Hillary fan; she’s too close to being a Republican (or at least, what the Republican party used to be).

I see no bigotry. Lots of personal feelings get interpreted by public in all sorts of ways. I have been following his speeches quite closely, and I am going by what he says, not what people are shouting about what he says. I have gone around about that already on another thread. So far nobody has presented anything better than hearsay about his personal views. He has been presenting more than insults. I have provided bunches of links, but I don’t think anyone has viewed them.
Still, aside from that, do you think dems have a candidate hiding somewhere until the time is right? Is there a plan?

But isn’t a candidate the advertisement that sells the party? We don’t vote for an individual. We vote for a figurehead that represents the party we’re handing power to for the next 4 years.

With personalities and debate performances being mere marketing magic, how could you consider voting for Trump (Republican) if you’re not a Republican. Unless you’re particularly rich or have a theocratic bent, it would make little sense to even consider voting Republican.

Note: Yes, I know Democrats are also corporate whores and there is very little ideological difference between the two parties relative to the rest of the world. However, there are differences – ones that matter to you and me. The power to nominate supreme court justices is enough of a reason to put aside the glossy exteriors and remember what we’re voting for.

Do the Democrats have a secret weapon? I sure hope so. For some reason, Republicans and independents seem hesitant to vote for a conservative like Clinton. And while I would love a Sanders/Warren ticket, I’m not naive enough to think middle America is going to vote for them.

Trump claims to be a convert. He was Democrat all his life until recently.
Did you see the debate this week?
The President is not the power. Look at how many times B.O. has been stifled by that Repub majority.
Again, I ask, did anyone see the debate, and Trump the only one to raise his hand? It is on YT if anyone cares to check. Also, at the very end of the debate, the mediator asked Trump if he ever really switched parties.
I’m not going by headlines. I watched it all the way through on YT.
Just because I am no longer Republican does not mean I am a Democrat. I just want someone I can get behind when elections come along.

Letting lose the unthought detritus of your mind can work for a CEO but it’s inappropriate for a world leader. Trump can manage a sound-bite but beyond one or two sentences what’s really on his mind, nothing , is apparent, and that is scary.

If the Dems, or all of us, have a secret weapon in the race it’s Bernie Sanders. He’s what the Dems have pretended to be but these days rarely are, a man of the people, for the people.
(for all you corporatist parasite class that’s natural-born people)

If you are no longer a Republican but not a Democrat, then I don’t understand why you dislike Hillary or think that she is not a viable candidate. She’s one of those “I didn’t leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me” Democrats who converted from one party to the other. She’s also doing extremely well in the polls. She’s basically the centrist that moderates always say they want. Note that when I say “centrist,” I mean that relative to American politics (which are virtually all right-wing when looked at from a global perspective).

Trump is running a vanity campaign. He’s not serious, he’s not going to win, and he both knows it and doesn’t care. It’s about promoting the Trump brand. Maybe he has a new reality show coming out or something. Because while saying whatever is on your mind might be entertaining, it’s not really a qualification for the presidency. A president needs to think before speaking to know when not to speak. But Trump has never shown any inclination to do either of those things.

My fondest wish is to see Trump run as a third party candidate. (Well, maybe not my fondest but high up there.)

How can anyone seriously support Trump? Ever few days he makes a statement more outrageous than the last! His characterization that Megan Kelly was on her period during the debate should sink his campaign, but he just gets more popular!

^^ I think he’s the new Chris Christie. People seem to enjoy bullies. We in New Jersey learned the hard way.

I’m pretty sure @JeSuisRickSpringfield is correct about Trump and his campaign being a promotion for his brand.

@filmfann: “How can anyone seriously support Trump? Ever few days he makes a statement more outrageous than the last.”

It seems that people are attracted to people who appear to be “shooting from the hip”, even if what they say is ridiculous.

My ideal fantasy (never going to happen) would be that there are no tv debates or appearances at all for anyone. If you want to know a candidate’s positions, you actually read her/his record and maybe a written response to a standard list of pointed questions that focus on what the candidate is likely to support or oppose. This document would be fact-checked by an independent council and would provide context, such as how their party generally votes and some historical context. No sound bites, no judgment based on face or voice or eloquence. Empathy is not our friend here. Seeing someone that looks, sounds, or talks like our grandfather while supporting all kinds of monstrous policies that will hurt us and our children for generations to come is not the ideal way to operate a democracy.

I’m not a Hilary fan either, @Here2_4, but even considering that Mr. Trump is a worthy alternative is a repugnant idea to me.

I’m still waiting for more than opinion. I respect you all as being earnest in wanting the best candidate. I too want the best candidate, and I am troubled.
I have spent a lot of time watching speeches, interviews, and now a debate from Trump. I think he is serious. It may be possible that, like me, he is not impressed by anyone he sees, and would prefer someone oust him by being just what we need, but whatever his finale, I think he is serious.
I am still saying this, “Someone convince me I am wrong.” Opinions don’t convince me of anything more than your own depth of emotions. Convince me. De bone, clear the fat, and serve me some lean I can devour. Like my math teacher always said, “Show your work.”

Here’s some meat to chew on.

@Here2_4 – You are asking us to convince you are wrong about what? If you like Trump’s positions, then vote for him. But make sure you know what his positions are. Are you clear on where he stands on…

- climate change
– reproductive freedom
– healthcare access
– citizenship and the exploitation of undocumented immigrants
– war with Iran
– destroying the economy with endless war rather than treaties
– rights vs “let the state handle it” (aka race to the bottom, power to corporations and majority)
– church/state separation
– civil rights
– workers’ rights
– clean energy
– etc….

Uh, again, accusations. He said nothing about her period, the press filled that in. He said she had blood coming out of her eyes. That does not suggest period to me. He then lost what he was going to say, and said, “Out of her… whatever.” He put her down, but I don’t blame him. I did watch the debate, all the way through, (UGH). She was petty, and talked right over him instead of being respectful enough to let him answer.

The Democrats don’t have a secret weapon other than being the grown-ups.

And, you don’t state what you don’t like about Hillary, but have you considered Bernie Sanders? He is well on his way to earning my vote in the California Primary.

@DoNotKnow , I am wading my way through it. So far I am finding lots of opinions floating around,
I haven’t made my way through his stance on everything, but I know that several things are being reported incorrectly.
@zenvelo , I am paying attention to what you are saying here. Your GAs are from me first. I am also checking into Bernie. I don’t know much so far, but he strikes me as being rather impotent. Maybe he chooses his moments, and so far I have missed them. I’m still digging.

Bernie live tweeted during the debate. Read them. Not bad.

@cazzie , his name? Or is his account something obscure?

Well, may I take this moment to say I appreciate so many jellies popping in to hash their views for me. This is a lovely weekend turn out!
Woo! You have my blood pumping, my brain churning, and I feel invigorated!

I think more consideration should be given to the possibility that @Here2_4 is on to something. Who can dispute that Trump is the biggest gift to the Democratic Party and Hillary its presumptive nominee? The Trump show, much like Palin’s serves the very useful function of forcing rational conservatives to stare at the disturbing realities defining Republican politics, and the fact that he LEADS only emphasizes just how starkly idiotic things have become. Imagine yourself a billionaire, then ask “now what can I do to torpedo Republican presidential aspirations?” Trump is the exact copy of Stephen Colbert as Republican candidate, and the coincidence too striking not to be suspicious. Meantime, I think Hillary’s greatest obstacle to the White House is probably going to be Bernie Sanders who is gathering momentum and setting records in nickel and dime fund raising, as well as attendance and grass roots participation. Sanders is formidable as a threat, because he is saying the things that Clinton and all the other plugged in Democrats dare not. As long as he’s in this thing, the larger the threat. The rather striking effort on the part of corporate media to ignore the man grows increasingly problematic as his numbers climb, and it’s about time that we in this country had a look at a GENUINE populist candidate from the left.

Something to consider:

As the head of several businesses, Trump is used to “yes” men and to getting his own way no matter what; in other words a tyrant. Businesses, for the most part, are run as dictatorships not republics. He is going to expect to run the country in the same manner. Is that what America needs, to be run on a dictatorial business model?

That sounds like social status profiling to me, @rojo . If cops arrested people on what they expect the individual to do in the future strictly on the basis of their work standards and economic bracket, omg the uproar would be deafening! I don’t feel it would be right for me to discriminate against a man simply because he is ear bleeding rich. If he is reading this, I hope he will treat me to dinner and a shopping spree for taking his part.

@rojoThat has been the basic complaint of conservatives forever, who actually would prefer that the place be run as a dictatorship, only without all of those silly and expensive “benefits”. But as our Republican friends have so aptly demonstrated in their never ending war on “the demon”, the chances of anyone running this place are nil.

No, the Democrats don’t have a secret weapon. They just have truth, justice, and the American way. (But left leaning Moderates are WAY smarter!)

I think @janbb has it right. Trump is the Democrats’ secret weapon. If he could pull 5% to 10% of the vote as an independent, he could put Clinton over the top. If Trump did not have so much money, the Democrats would no doubt secretly contribute to his campaign as an independent. Trump could very well be the only way Clinton could get elected.

I thought Trump was the trump card. Tee hee. It seems to be working. Just imagining Trumps’s foreign policies and being part of world politics would be hilarious if it wasn’t so scary.

@Here2_4 I don’t believe it is profiling. I am not saying discriminate against him because of his wealth. I am saying that he runs his businesses a certain way like many, if not most, of his peers in similar situations, and it is not out of line to expect him to perform the position he is seeking in a similar fashion. He is accustomed to working this way and sees nothing wrong with dictating what is done, how it is done and when it is done in the manner that he, and he alone, sees fit and sees nothing wrong with using him wealth as a club to attain his goals.

What matters to Trump is Trump. All others concerns are secondary and he is perfectly fine with seeing other peoples lives destroyed and calling it necessary collateral damage to achieve the goal of making his own better.

It has been a successful approach for him in his endeavors so far and if you are comfortable seeing a country, your country, run in such a manner and believe it will make your way of life better then by all means vote for him.

If you, as I do, believe otherwise then find a different candidate.

Remember how the rest of the world was shocked and appalled when Dubayah was reelected? How much he was universally reviled and mocked? (And he was. Rightfully so.) Can you imagine if Trump was elected? He (almost) makes Bush look like a bastion of professionalism, statesmanship, and tact by comparison.

@Here2_4 You see no bigotry?

“The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems,” he said. “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

“I have a great relationship with the Blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the Blacks.”

“Laziness is a trait in blacks.”

“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me—consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected.”

“I think the only difference between me and the other candidates is that I’m more honest and my women are more beautiful.”

“You know, it doesn’t really matter what [the media] write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.”

On Rosie O’Donnell: “You take a look at her, she’s a slob. She talks like a, like a truck driver.”

“.@ariannahuff is unattractive both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man- he made a good decision.”

If Hillary Clinton can’t satisfy her husband what makes her thing she can satisfy America?’ @realDonaldTrump #2016president”

“What a convenient mistake: @BarackObama issued a statement for Kwanza (sic) but failed to issue one for Christmas.”

“There is something on that birth certificate—maybe religion, maybe it says he’s a Muslim, I don’t know. Maybe he doesn’t want that. Or. he may not have one,” he told Laura Ingraham regarding the ever-mysterious birth circumstances and religious affiliation of Barack Obama.

“It’s freezing and snowing in New York. We need global warming!”

“Remember, new ‘environmentally friendly’ lightbulbs can cause cancer. Be careful: the idiots who came up with this stuff don’t care.”

“China’s Communist Party has now publicly praised Obama’s reelection. They have never had it so good. Will own America soon.”

“Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest—and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure. It’s not your fault.”

It is something worthy of study, the apparent contradictions surrounding a genuine tycoon/buffoon. To quote Freddy Rumsen “it’s like watching a dog play the piano.” There’s an awful lot to find fault with in our country, but it actually might be the greatest country in the world at least when it comes to variety. The endless spectacle of absurd extremes makes ours the greatest show on earth.

Democrats’ secret weapon is already out. It’s Trump. He’s making sure Republicans won’t take the White House.

^^ The Dems (of which I now am one – I switched from “unaffiliated” to “Democrat” yesterday just so I could vote for Sanders in the primaries) a secret weapon. Trump is ruining everything for them. I thought I was watching an SNL skit when I saw the GOP debate.

I think Trump could be their secret weapon. I’m still trying to figure out how anyone could be seriously considering him as a presidential candidate. The man’s a joke.

*don’t need a secret weapon. Man, I can’t type today.

The only quotes from above I’ve actually heard from him are misquoted. He did not say Mexicans are… he said the people Mexico(The government) sends over, He said most of the people who come from Mexico who decide on their own to come are probably great people, but he couldn’t say for sure, because they are unaccounted for.
Again, going by headlines and other hearsay will convince me of nothing.
So far as wanting a Jewish accountant, I am with him on that. Jewish people focus thjeir learning differently from grade school. They read the Books Of Moses before the fourth grade! Our public schools won’t even teach cursive any more. I saw a high school student draw a map of Israel from memory, and she apologized that the mountain ranges may not be exactly right.
Personal opinion doesn’t count as bigotry. If he thinks such things of Rosie, fine. His opinion. You are allowed to not like him, so?
Some of those quotes were said in jest. I’m talking about the ones I viewed myself, in their context.
The whole thing about Obama’s birth certificate was on Barack’s behalf. Uh huh, was too.
I’m still waiting for someone to present something real.

I, for one, have no need to argue with you. If you like him so much and discount anything said here, go vote for him. I just don’t really understand how one can be considering both Trump and possibly Sanders. It doesn’t seem like positions mean much to you.

In The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, the role of the President was to behave in such a way that everyone forgot how awful things were. Zaphod Beeblebrox was elected, and was so crazy and irrational that he was considered the best president ever. His second head was an asset here.
Just sayin’.

I was taken aback by Trump’s statement that Mexico is “sending” unsavory people here. I was hoping someone would push him for further clarification, not on the criminal nonsense, but rather the function of the U S as a safety valve permitting the Mexican versions of Trump to loot Mexico. It was actually a rather profound thing to say, but there is no evidence of any profound mind behind it and so it remains another crude comment for the benefit of its appropriately crude audience.

Oy. (Way to stereotype Jewish people.)

@stanleybmanly he has clarified several times. I provided links. If I repost them, will anyone read? Hmmmm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0UMsNUEZuI

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11781600_913571272039890_4510442449245782387_n.jpg?oh=19a52c3f2b027175df7888812ed336db&oe=56800407

@tinyfaery really? Is it stereotyping? I am speaking from personal experience. It is complimentary, I think, to say the Jews I know are better schooled than the kids in public schools. That is not stereotyping, it is a statement of fact.

The Jews I know are schooled in the public schools.

I’m sorry. Public schools have nothing on Hebrew schools. The kids you know are being robbed.

@Here2_4 Yes, he “clarified” because he had to’ he was losing business left and right because of his original statements. And he has been wrong on it all along. “Mexico” doesn’t send people across the border, it is a conspiracy theory in Trump’s head and nowhere else.

And your statement about Jewish accountants is a half step from 200 years of anti-semitic remarks about how the European economy was under the control of Jewish bankers.

@Here2_4 I’ll check out your links later & get back to you.

Wow! No wonder this country is shit.

Both Trump and Hillary are vain, ego-centric and not leadership material. They can handle publicity and play politics but I do not see any real problem solving ability there. The fact that both are even being taken seriously makes my head spin. What. The. Fuck. The only thing that makes sense is that both parties are playing the same game. They likely have a sleeper lurking behind this big diversion that is Trump and Hillary and will bring out the actual candidates near the end before too much muckraking can be done.

Ok. Those “clarifications” leave a lot to be desired. The claim that the Mexican government is systematically forcing criminals to come here is both vague and unsubstantiated. The speeches are the typical political promises, laced with Trump’s own penchant for crudity. There are lots of promises that he can build the country because he throws up ugly hotels. It’s a string of nonstop promises and a long list of the defects of everyone else. And the delusion that he’s going to win the Latino vote by providing them jobs was the final straw. I don’t care to invest any more time to the pointless bluster from a megalomaniac.

Trump wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and re energize the middle class. He said so publicly.

Again, Trump never did put down Latinos. The press did that. He only commented regarding the quality of illegals coming across the border, and stated that there are people from around the world breeching that border.

@Here2_4 Perhaps you don’t understand how racism works. While it may be that the surface of Trump’s comments were about “the quality of illegals coming across the border,” he also has—by his own admission!—no evidence to base that on. So his assertion is based entirely on… what? There’s no statistical evidence that illegal immigrants are more likely to be rapists or drug users, so he’s just going off some general impression. And what do you know, his general impression “just so happens” to conform to the typical strain of anti-Mexican racism that is found in the United States. You can call it coincidence, but most people aren’t that gullible.

You’re selective evidence regarding Jews also happens to conform to typical American stereotypes, but you are less likely to get called on it because you are expressing so-called “positive” racism. But pigeonholing people as model minorities isn’t really going to help us move society forward.

She was called on it though. ^^

Called on what? You people are stupid enough to think that a racist is someone who thinks people are not all alike? NEWS FLASH! We are not all alike. There are social differences, ethnic differences. The racists are the ones who think we all have to be the same to be accepted. I happen to know for fact there are differences. That is what is good about people, variety. It is people who assert that people are all the same who have their minds set on superiority because any difference is inferior. Call me on the truth any time you please. The truth is, certain traits do pool in certain peoples. I am not judging though, you are.
BOOM!

Nobody here has the right to admonish me. You are the most bigoted bunch I have ever seen. I am not party affiliated, because I like my people on an individual basis. There are those who say they are atheists, but you seem more like Christian bashers to me. I get the big, “Dump Fluther” attitude now. Yes, all the best ones are gone, because they got tired of the low intellect rants. I believe I will go hang with people who practice what they preach.

@Here2_4 – your choice. No one is pushing you. Best of luck in your new surroundings.

@Here2 4 That comment of Trump’s about raising taxes on the rich sort of floored me, til I realized that he doesn’t really need to raise money. That reminds me about Ross Perot, another guy I couldn’t figure out at the time, but I wish were running today. The thing about Perot that impressed me was that he vehemently opposed NAFTA. And every single prediction the man had regarding the ill effects of that treaty was right on the money. From the giant sucking sound to the flood of impoverished people storming our Southern border, he called it right. And once again, who is it EXACTLY that benefits from NAFTA.

@Here2_4 I’m not quite sure who you are angry at, but I’ll just point out that I never said anything even close to “a racist is someone who thinks people are not all alike.” In fact, if you read carefully, you’ll see that I said quite the opposite. Racists are people who think that members of certain groups are all alike (or at least all alike in particular ways).

Of course there are social differences between social and ethnic groups. It is worth noting, however, that modern research has demonstrated the vast majority of genetic and phenotypic variation is found between individuals within populations, rather than among different populations (to the tune of 90% vs. 10%). And anthropological research shows that while certain ideas manifest differently from culture to culture, most societies share a lot of the same basic rules and assumptions.

Sure, variety is the spice of life. I totally agree. But you are more likely to find it by looking at people as individuals than as members of race X or group Y. I am making no judgment on whether you do that, though. All I pointed out was that Trump is very clearly making broad assumptions that are backed up by prejudice, not evidence. If you can forgive him for that, fine. But it’s not really all the surprising that he’s getting criticism for it.

@janbb Sure, here. I just meant in general.