Meta Question

wildflower's avatar

Is Fluther becoming a refugee camp for AskVille and do us non-AskVillers not get an ambassador?

Asked by wildflower (11116 points ) August 10th, 2008

Yes this question has a hint of negativity, but it’s just doing my head in a little bit that I’ve seen nothing but “askville this and askville that” in the last day or so and right now I’m looking at a welcoming message telling me I’m an AskVille member and I should report to users who have been on fluther about half the time I have…....(no offense PnL and Marissa, I do enjoy both your posts)

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

70 Answers

sndfreQ's avatar

I understand your point, and am going to contact the site admins to see if they can update the collective at-large as to the why’s and what’s of the situation…Stay tuned :)

Eureka's avatar

I also understand how you both must feel. So, I will not be hanging around. You guys have a great site going – would have been nice to be a member, but, oh well!

sndfreQ's avatar

@Eureka: hey, nobody’s “asking” anyone to leave!!! We welcome everyone here! I was simply responding to wildflower’s question, and perhaps soon one of the site admins can explain the circumstances to non-AV-ers, as to the nature of the recent influx. We’d love for you to stay awhile :)

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or other thoughts on this :)

jrpowell's avatar

I felt the same way during the iPhone thing, the reddit thing, and the digg thing. Experience has taught me that we will survive.

cak's avatar

I understand the frustration, really I do. I am lurking and looking around, so I don’t step on toes. I posted to that question and mentioned that I have met some nice people here. I know it has to very overwhelming, I’m sure, if you give us a chance, we’ll adjust.

I promise! I haven’t posted any questions about Askville, or being a member there! Actually, I haven’t posted any questions – but I have answered some.

Give us a chance, please! I’m sure it will die down.

jrpowell's avatar

Don’t mention askville. Nobody will know how you found this place, simple, no?

wildflower's avatar

@Eureka
I personally don’t care (and I mean that in the friendliest manner possible) what other sites people on Fluther visit. I don’t mean to take part in an “us-and-them” culture – quite the opposite – which is why I don’t understand this overwhelming emphasis on AskVille, a site I’ve never visited and didn’t think was a pre-requisite to using Fluther.

flyawayxxballoon's avatar

Yes, I’ve noticed the same thing…so many questions about Fluther vs. Askville, etc…it’s just too much after a while! I mean, a few questions are fine, but we’re practically being bombarded at this point…it’s great that so many people from Askville are coming here, and I’m fine with people being from Askville, but the site is not about questions concerning Askville, which are pretty much the only questions that people from Askville are asking.

@cak and Eureka; Stay! We have no problem with you being here! It’s just the constant Askville questions that are annoying…

sndfreQ's avatar

Yeah, cak brings up a good point: it does take a little bit of browsing, lurking, perusing, to figure out how the community functions, and how the format varies from AV.

I’d love to hear from the recent new folks about their areas of expertise, their questions, their ‘strengths’ as that part is always great about new membership.

Change is good, and I personally love the influx of new ideas, perspectives, and adventures…otherwise it gets to feel a bit in-bred after awhile!

Carla's avatar

Wow! I just signed up in the past 5 minutes, and this is the first question I came across, I’m going to dive right in here and say I’m also an Askville refugee; however I promise not to ask any questions regarding Askville.

I’m off to see what Fluther is all about now. Bye.

lefteh's avatar

Yeah, I’ve gotten a bit tired of hearing about Askville as well.
But I want to make it clear that I don’t want the Askville people to feel like they’re being pressured to leave. We welcome additions to the collective. But as johnpowell said, Askville doesn’t really have to be brought up…

BarbieM's avatar

Not all of are obsessing about AV. I’ve answered lots of questions here, and until now, only one related to AV at all. Sorry if we’ve been a pain.

flyawayxxballoon's avatar

@BarbieM; It’s not Askvillers being here that’s annoying, it’s merely the constant questions about it that become annoying. Many of you don’t apply to that, and that’s great!

wildflower's avatar

I’m sorry if anyone took this question as a personal attack. It was certainly not meant as such. I was just feeling a bit like a (jelly)fish out of water, not being able to take part in the majority of the recent questions unless I start commenting about a site I have no knowledge of (so far, at least).

loser's avatar

@wilflower: Can I nominate you to be our ambassador?

sndfreQ's avatar

seconded!

flyawayxxballoon's avatar

Haha, apparently she already had been nominated! Have you read the welcome message?
But yes, wildflower is deserving of the ambassador title. =)

hammer43's avatar

I have been here a couple of days and I have made friends with both askvilles and fluthers and I have answered questions from none askville and have asked questions not related to askville. I want to be friends with everyone, this is a very nice place to be.

andrew's avatar

Recently there were a significant number of power Askville members who have decided to join the community. I added the welcome message to aide in their transition—just like we added a special message to the iPhone users when we were listed as Apple’s top webapp. The logic is flawed right now and shows up after visiting any page with “askville” in the URL, and I haven’t been able to get the time to fix that yet.

The community (on both sides) will suss out the culture. In the mean time, if you’re bothered by the new content, feel free to hang out in your fluther for a bit. We’re working on rejiggering the site for new users so it’s easier to understand our unique culture—but remember that a key aspect of that culture is diversity.

As far as ambassadors, you have yours right here.

Eureka's avatar

First time I have ever been called a “power” anything!!

TheHaight's avatar

Wildflower! Is that why you’ve been so distant on here? I missed ya!. And ive noticed a few fellow askvillers have answered a question of mine and have really helped me out. It at first was weird, but I don’t want anyone to leave.

cak's avatar

@Eureka…I’ve always thought you were a power…something! :)

not being mean! Eureka is a friend.

wundayatta's avatar

In my experience on Askville, when people need help, they ask for it. In asking, they often, though not always give context. I suspect that perhaps fifty Askville members have joined Fluther in the last few days. As newbies, many are a bit at sea as to the culture and practices of this place. If they let folks know where they’re from, perhaps they’ll get a more effective introduction.

If you can hold your breath a little, I suspect it will all calm down. Indeed, many may depart, if the troubles over on AV subside. But also, we’ll probably learn about this place and get the hang of it, so our silly newbie questions will become less of a pervasive annoyance.

And generally, except for me, you’ll like the AV folks. They tend to be very nice. Perhaps too nice. But nice is good. I guess. For whatever reason, I’ve got a bit of an edge. I’ll try not to let it be too sharp.

Carla's avatar

I knew I recognized that butt. LOL!

wundayatta's avatar

Maybe here they’ll let the world have a place to sit?

MissAnthrope's avatar

So.. being ignorant of AskVille before today, what is the story? Why the sudden influx?

wundayatta's avatar

16 of the most prolific and admired Askvillers were kicked out for trying to defend the place against someone who was pretty nasty. It was grossly unfair and ill-conceived. The suspendees ended up here, and a lot of the rest of us followed because they are a hell of a lot more interesting than what is happening on AV now.

MissAnthrope's avatar

Aaaahhhh. Thanks for the info. :)

I hope you like it here.. I think it’s the most awesome thing on the ‘net right now.

hammer43's avatar

yes askville is almost at a stand still right now

cak's avatar

hehehe…hammer! you’re still in your pjs!

I have to say, I really like the questions that I am finding on fluther. I feel a little out of my league!

marissa's avatar

Hi all! First, I want to apologize to everyone that has been a bit overdone with ‘Askville’. The great influx of Askville folks is basically my fault. I found this site months ago and was really impressed with the kindness of folks here and your intelligence (ironically, I found Fluther while researching a question for Askville). Due to the situation that daloon explained, I recommended Fluther to a lot of Askvillers. Due to many changes on Askville, the quality and feeling of community is no longer there. We use to have the feeling of pride and community in Askville that you folks have here. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can explain my motivation and why I have handled things here on Fluther the way I have. In my opinion, part of what contributed to some of the problems on Askville, was lack of information and understanding when Askville did something to cause a large influx in users. I knew that the events that have occurred on Askville could cause a large influx of newusers here on Fluther, so I wanted to explain the situation to Andrew and PnL so that they would be aware and able to anticipate potential problems. I did this hoping to lessen any negative impact an influx of Askvillers might cause. One of the potential problems was the Fluther community being bombarded with ‘newuser’ type questions the ‘how’s, ‘why’s and ‘where’s so to speak. Therefore, PnL and I agreed to be ‘ambassadors’ so that most of the burden of answering these questions (hopefully before they were posted to you all) and helping folks transition to Fluther would fall on our shoulders and not be too disrupting to Fluther. Also, if I have mentioned Askville in my answers or explainations, it has usually been on a question that has been asked by another Askviller and therefore I knew it would be easier for them to understand if I explained something with a point of reference with which we were both familiar (for example a recent question about forwarding a question to a friend on Fluther). In retrospect, I could have answered them privately without posting it to the Fluther community, however, if I had done that, another person might have the same question and would not have been able to see my answer. Why should newusers from Askville be any different from any other newuser? Well, the main difference in my mind is that most newusers don’t join Fluther already knowing a bunch of the other newusers. Therefore, I was concerned about a lot of people with a history together coming here and alienating the members of Fluther, not intentionally, but unintentionally with ‘inside jokes and/or info’ and/or by doing things the ‘Askville way’. That is why I composed a message that I sent to all new users from Askville as I found out they arrived. I sent a copy of the message to Andrew and PnL, so they would know what I was doing. I will gladly send a copy of that message to anyone that wants to see it, just pm me. Well, perhaps I should have kept this ‘answer’ shorter, but I wanted to take the time to explain myself to anyone that wants to take the time to read all of this. I am (as I know many of us are) incredibly grateful to all of you that have welcomed us warmly. I respect and understand those of you that might not be too enthused about the sudden influx of ‘Askville’. I only hope that all of this ends up being a positive for the Fluther community and that Andrew doesn’t come to regret his warm and generous welcome to us. Finally, if I screw up here on Fluther, please feel free to tell me. I welcome the opportunity to learn proper Fluther behavior.

sndfreQ's avatar

Thanks marissa for the clarification…I’m impressed so far by the quality of the responses from AV expatriates :) your support is appreciated.

cak's avatar

@marissa,

I am sorry you feel that you are now in a position where you need to apologize or feel the need to apologize for your kindness. I will say, that I joined fluther, actually, several months ago. I just didn’t have the frame of mind to participate in several places, at one time. So I stuck with what I was comfortable with, Askville.

When the crap hit the fan, I came here, like many other. However, what I did and I will say to everyone that is thinking that we all didn’t try to look around, at Marissa’s and PnL’s urging, I looked around and started to participate.

I rarely, (except on this question, another one posted just before this one – oh and one asking if you prefer Yahoo Answers or Askville – which I mentioned that I really liked fluther.) if ever mention Askville in my answers. In fact, I haven’t gravitated to the askville questions. I made the decision that I didn’t want to be cak from Askville. I want to stand on my own merits, here. Cak, someone new on fluther. Hopefully, someone that others will come to think of as a productive member of fluther.

Marissa did invite us, PnL also encouraged us – to find a better online place to go, that’s all. They both encouraged us to look around, to start becoming part of fluther, if we liked it. They provided the guidelines, hints and told us to please ask them, when we need help.

Please, if anyone thinks they did something wrong, they didn’t. They only tried to invite friends. They didn’t realize that this would happen.

Marissa, I’m sorry that you felt the need to post this, I do hope that things calm down, soon and that things are ok for you.

shredbettycrocker's avatar

Once the AV16 get reinstated, the AV activity will die down. I’m an AVer who has just recently joined. Just learning the ropes. Thanks for making us feel welcome.

jlm11f's avatar

I would like to clarify something since many people are mistaken about this. Marissa and I were chosen as “ambassadors” not because we are the best flutherers (I know I am not even close to that title). We were chosen because both of us are members of that “other site” and thus know majority of the members who have been recently joining fluther. Marissa knows them better than I do, since I haven’t been there for a while, but I know or knew fluther better than marissa did, so it seemed like a good combination. Our job as ambassadors mainly involves welcoming people and answering tech support Qs such as how to search for people and add them to your fluther etc. If anyone feels that they would prefer the position and want to be an “ambassador” instead, you are welcome to take my spot.

As to people like Eureka who mentioned leaving: I think the recent Qs being asked about AV-ers is not because flutherers want you to leave, they just feel a little exasperated that they are now “strangers” to their own community site. I think that by the next few days (max), things will have settled down. And please remember to PM me, marissa or Allie (she volunteered to help out) if you have any technical “how do i do this” kind of Qs instead of asking the community. Thanks. And hope you enjoy fluthering.

lefteh's avatar

@Marissa: What you just described is exactly what several of us were discussing last night. The difference is that Askvillers all know each other, rather than a sudden influx of users from another source. It makes it harder because it’s sort of two communities in one. But, down the road, I don’t think that there will be a problem combining the veteran Flutherites and the Askvillers who stick around into a bigger and better collective.

marissa's avatar

@Lefteh – Well said
@PnL – Thank you for adding your comment, also very well said :0)
@Cak – You are a dear as always ;0)

flameboi's avatar

O.k. lets set something clear here, everybody is welcome, right???

lefteh's avatar

Absolutely.

marissa's avatar

@flameboi and lefteh – you two are very sweet ;0)

flameboi's avatar

:) thank you Marissa

loser's avatar

All are welcome!!!

(Except Zach, but that’s another story…)

GoldieAV16's avatar

That is nice to hear. Believe me, when you’ve been made to feel unwelcome at a site that you’ve been a member of for almost two years, it’s nice to find a site that at least gives you a chance, regardless of where you’re from. I think what some of the oldbies here are seeing is a group that are feeling a bit “burned”. I know that I’m walking on eggshells everywhere, and I’ve been sitting in the background, mostly, lurking and trying to get a feel for this culture. In my mind that is being courteous, rather than plunging in with questions and answers. The questions that I have felt pretty sure that I can enter into without breaching the Fluther etiquette – as yet to be learned – are AV questions. Hopefully the “newness” of being an exile will wear off pretty quick, but hopefully we’ll never have to “assimilate.” I think part of what makes any community strong is an ability to embrace a diversity of cultures. We may still speak “Askvillese” and the recent events in our homeland (lol) might still be very fresh on our minds, but we didn’t come to Fluther because we had nowhere else to go. We have a really strong community and an AV group on FaceBook, and we also have a Yahoo Group aptly named “Afterville”. Both groups are open to anyone, including anyone from Fluther, but the common bond is that we met via Askville. Rightly or wrongly, I felt a common bond here because I knew a few people from AV, and they rolled out the welcome mat. Soon other Flutherites seemed to say “we don’t care where the heck you’re from, join the party.”

Now that’s an attitude I can relate to. And if it’s any consolation, while we are here getting acquainted and your site seems to be deluged with AV talk, there is an equal amount – if not much more – Fluther talk going on in AV, including many, many posts with links to Fluther. And from what I’ve seen, they are incredibly understanding and supportive of some AVers desire to migrate. I haven’t seen one person say “Enough talk about Fluther!” I’m not saying that’s a better attitude, just saying it’s nice when a group can accommodate one another, and embrace their differences, as well as their similarities.

flameboi's avatar

“it’s nice to find a site that at least gives you a chance, regardless of where you’re from” Goldie, just one thing, aliens are not welcome hehehe

tedibear's avatar

I love this discussion! Look! No one flamed anyone, no one got cranky, we all feel welcome and are able to keep moving.

I think I’m staying at fluther! The people (not just ex-askvillagers) have been fun, lurve is easy to hand out at will and I believe we will all integrate nicely into one happy neighborhood.

Cat's avatar

@tedibear

hear hear!

and
@Goldie – well said as well. ;-)

MissAnthrope's avatar

Fluther has the best user community I’ve yet to come across on the internet. I love it here.. the people are smart, accepting, fun, witty, and we have some of the most interesting conversations! Flaming isn’t tolerated by the mods or the community, so the feeling is very relaxed and accepting. I feel really happy I found this site, I quickly became an addict. I mean, where else can you show off what a smartypants you are without people thinking you’re a know-it-all jackass? :)

wildflower's avatar

Wow! I have to admit, I feel almost bad about being so snappy to ask this question yesterday, but I’m glad to see the discussion it’s brought about.

Hopefully we’ll all just continue on here as Flutherites or Flutherers rather than various sub-groups based on association with other sites – or lack thereof.

TheHaight's avatar

lurve to you wildflower. You weren’t snappy at all, and you’re right;we are all Flutherites :)

GoldieAV16's avatar

Wildflower, I appreciated your honesty, and I understood your sentiment. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with voicing how you feel about a situation, and this situation was a bit emotional for everyone involved. I doubt that another group would ever “land” with the intensity we were emoting, lol. It’s good to know the impact “we” were having on the community, and I know you spoke for others. There’s nothing wrong with gently admonishing the newcomers to a community to respect the culture, and that’s how I took your question.

marissa's avatar

I think your question was great and very appropriate. If you hadn’t have asked it, we wouldn’t be having this great exchange of feelings and thoughts :0)

dalepetrie's avatar

I had seen this question and sought it out in the fear that it would degenerate into a lot of unwelcome outsider sentiment…I’m so glad that’s not the case. I really have nothing to add, I simply agree that we’re going to see a lot less talk about that other site when people are reinstated, because then there will be an appropriate forum. I understand the concerns about a whole bunch of people who know each other overwhelming the culture here, but one thing I would point out is most people who came here are seeking a forum for their thoughts and ideas…we value contributing and back and forth, and it is because we don’t believe in forcing our ways on people that we a) came here and b) by and large feel we fit in here. I think I speak for most AVers (and now former AVers) that we love this place, we respect your culture and will help you fight to keep it what it is, not work against you.

marissa's avatar

“I think I speak for most AVers (and now former AVers) that we love this place, we respect your culture and will help you fight to keep it what it is, not work against you.”

@Dale, you can definitely speak for me with that sentiment :0)

galileogirl's avatar

As one (this live thing is a little weird, seeing how slow I am) of theAskville 16 or 17 or 18, I am interested in what my co-exiles are going to do after tomorrow. I think I know what I want to do but would appreciate what the others have to say.

Cat's avatar

HiYa GGirl and in answer to your question – I still don’t know. But I won’t go on adnauseum in this question here about how I feel. I’ve stated it elsewhere on Fluther and I don’t want to get trounced on here ;-)

dalepetrie's avatar

My plan….

I’ll check into AV periodically. I’m not answering any more questions, at least not right now, unless I’m just so moved to answer it that I can’t help myself. I will post answers in the DB…I think I will pretty much use only the DBs over there going forward, and even those I’ll try not to get too dragged down in. But I’d just as soon save my mental energy to answering and asking questions here. I’ll maintain a presence, answer PMs, vote on appeals and such, but I’d say 85 to 90 percent of my q & a time will be here from now on.

Knotmyday's avatar

I’d say its time for pizza…again. We serve all.

tedibear's avatar

oooooh… pizza….

sarapnsc's avatar

what’s an ambassador?

Knotmyday's avatar

A nice cigar.

(re: The Man Who Knew Too Little)

scamp's avatar

Hmmmm I thought it was a car made in the 70’s!!

DevilDiva's avatar

I’m not sorry that I asked a question about Askville. I was totally lost. I feel better coming onto a site like this if there was somebody I knew.

sarapnsc's avatar

I don’t know a single soul either, so your not alone!

Knotmyday's avatar

Stick around a while… we grow on you. Like moss, only better.

ibstubro's avatar

I’m just tickled to see the best and brightest of the Askville refugees here on Fluther. It was fear of losing track of them that kept me on Askville as long as I was.

We promise to play nice. Well, MOST of us.

wundayatta's avatar

Is a new exodus from AV happening? If so, why?

ibstubro's avatar

@wundayatta Askville removed the annoying interactivity. Now only the person who posted a question and the person who asked it are allows to comment on the answer. If you answered this question on Askville, only wildflower could answer it. I would not be allowed this post, the most I could do is post a new answer with @wundayatta at the start and HOPE that you saw it. There is no forwarding of questions. Search is Google only. There are no rewards but thumbs up or down.

In short, they removed the “community” part and started bots to ask questions that would generate Google traffic that would generate Amazon traffic. Enough of the annoying chit-chat.

ibstubro's avatar

They started a “Forum” to replace the ‘community’.

wundayatta's avatar

@ibstubro Question bots? What kinds of questions do they ask? Is this artificial intelligence or something? Or do they string random sentences together and put a question mark at the end?

ibstubro's avatar

It was my understanding that they take answers regarding products on Amazon and turn them into questions. The questions show up when you search Google for anything regarding that product and take you to Amazon. It’s believed that Amazon and Google are in collusion, as it is generating a HUGE amount of traffic for both, and traffic is money on the internet today.

I suspect that they could also be lifting questions from smaller, more technical sites and posting them on Askville for the same reason…site specific traffic. Non-logged in Askville is nothing but a running advertisement, and they’re prefer to run that without all the damned interactivity. They DECIMATED the site, and did it in stages, all under the guise of ‘user improvements’. Classic wolf in sheep’s clothing.

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