What do you think should be the punishment for the Minneapolis police officer who shot the unarmed woman just the other day?

He should stand trial for murder.

Yep, i agree with Stanley, no excuse for this insanity, none.

They should prosecute. This whole thing could have been avoided. My guess is they’ll let the police officer go.

She was visiting here from Australia. It is a horrible story. The Australians are shocked that this can happen in our country.

Yes, the officer should stand trial for murder but that won’t bring the woman back. Something needs to change but I despair of it ever happening.

He should lose his gun and be given office duty while the law decides what to charge him as. Murder one or two or manslaughter. If he gets off then he can be fired, and then sued for wrongful death for everything he has.

The traditional English way:
Stripped naked and dragged through the city at the heels of a horse.
Then strangled by hanging, but released while still alive, emasculated, eviscerated and his bowels burned before him, beheaded, then cut into four parts. His preserved head (dipped in tar) placed on a pike.

@ragingloli Wow.

He murdered her, he is a murderer and should be treated as such.

@RedDeerGuy1
That is how the English executed William Wallace. It was a more Christian time back then.

@ragingloli Ok I remember thanks.

@RedDeerGuy1 I ate a slice of pizza and hot wings and not bothered by @ragingloli Answer.

Reincarnation as his innocent victim at the moment she started dialing 911.

As others have said, a trial. But I think all police body cameras and car cameras should be on at all times. Why have them if you only want to record what you think is necessary?

I agree @chyna.

That’s insane..Are they meant for protecting common people or themselves first? There’s is something terribly wrong the way police force is being trained to handle such situations.

I USED to think that the police were here to protect us, the citizens. I don’t think so anymore. I’ve lived in many states from the West coast to the East coast, and in between. It’s been my personal interactions with individuals on various police forces that have changed my mind. I’m open to the idea that there are members of the police community who are mentally balanced, but I’d say most are not.

The police have certainly contributed to tense race relations. And add to it the fact that they “protect their own”, even up to hiding or destroying evidence, etc, etc. and the whole scene takes on a life of its own.

This has me more than scared to ever set foot south of our border again, the best free country in the world ,yeah right, while ole Canada aint perfect it’s sure a hell of a lot better than the us, and things like this just prove it.
And to answer your question he should be charged with murder, but being he is a cop, and will say he was scared for his life,he will probably be found not guilty and will move out of state to continue his police career somewhere else.

^That’s just it. An armed LEO can use deadly force, if he/she feels that their life is in danger. It’s a easy way to escape the accountability. It’s VERY difficult to prove that someone was or wasn’t afraid for their life.

There is a lot I haven’t heard about the circumstances yet. But ,as presented it seems like this cop made a ridiculous judgement call.

Why the body cams weren’t on, is beyond me. As far as the dash cam, most models only activate when the blue lights are on. If the cops had arrived without them on, which is common when first responding to a non lethal situation, the camera would not be on.

I’m a LEO, and we are often put into situations where we have little time to think, and sometimes there is no “right” action. But this type of incident is far too common in America.

I’m not blaming the victim here, but it is never wise to approach a law enforcement vehicle in the dark. What a tragedy….

Unfortunately, she didn’t grow up in a place where it’s common for police officers to shoot unarmed women dressed in their jammies. Perhaps there should be a notification on the US immigration paperwork advising foolish people who trust the police, that they’re actually dangerous and are likely to shoot them for no apparent reason. And when they do shoot them, they can just say ‘I don’t want to talk about it’.

Simply crazy.

^I understand why the woman approached the police car. You’re right. She wasn’t wrong. I said it was a tragedy. And I said that unprovoked police shootings were too common. This poor woman thought that the cops were there to help, so she approached the vehicle. The cop somehow determined, in a split second, that this was a lethal threat and fired. How he could unholster his weapon, and discharge it so fast, without having a visibility/understanding of the target is beyond my understanding.

And yes it is crazy. America is going crazy/er…. Such are the ramifications where gun violence is so prevalent. And guns are so easy to aquire. And guns are legal to carry, in most states (after a class.)

I support gun rights, but it’s pretty stupid, the way we do things. The fact that a suspect nay have a gun, or outgun a LEO, in a response incident is real. A normal cop has a pistol, 9mm, or 10mm/.40 cal with a average capacity of 15 rounds. They usually have no clue, what a suspect has or is intending. A hunting shotgun is a superior weapon, to most cop’s side arm. Where I live, lots of people have CWP’‘s (concealed weapons permit,) and carry. Countless others have shotguns in their vehicles. The only law to have a gun in your car, is it has to be in the glove box or trunk. Behind a pickup truck seat is fine too.

An officer could find themselves outgunned, and surprised by a stranger that they have just begun engaging. The police are taught to destroy the threat. Often, they are taught to put as many rounds on target as possible. This reduces the chances of the officer being wounded/killed, in a “life threatening situation.”

This is the result of a heavily armed public, and the militarization of the police force. PERIOD. And will take some creative thinking to resolve….

What I don’t get is the cop didn’t even get out of the car. He felt so threatened by the woman in her jammies that he shot her right from the passenger seat.

@jca And, if I’m not mistaken, he shot past the driver through the drivers window. I bet the driver was shocked and had he made a move to get out of the door, could have been in the line of the bullet.

Give average or below average people with little education, experience or respect basic training that tells them the public is out to get them and the the first line of defense is to fucking shoot first this is the result. I don’t like cops, I have met a couple good ones but the vast majority I know or have known personally had no buisiness in that job. The pay is lousy, the educational requirements are nonexistant and the hazards and stress are high. The power trip is quite large so to take such a shit job you either have something to prove or want to be the hero. You’re usuallty one of two: an insecure child or a martyr.
Honestly, firefighters and first responders get my respect, not cops.

I like cops, I respect them although I do see some assholes who are cops. One of my coworkers said in his town, the guys who are cops were the lowest half of the graduating class in high school.

Just to point out, not all cops are low paid. In the building I work in (wealthy county) the cop makes about 150k a year (it’s all google-able). Granted he works a lot of OT but still, it’s not bad pay. The starting salary in the county I work in is about 50k I think. It’s low for the county I work in but the salary goes up quickly with step increases and overtime. Plus they get the pension after 20 years.

I think the shooting like in Minneapolis is the result of lowering standards and this is what you get.

I agree, it’s a simple problem of low/no standards. If we made standards for law enforcement very high like it should be then I don’t think we would be seeing problems like this at such an epidemic rate.

One thing about this, maybe it will wake up the higher-ups and realize they need better training for the average police officer, but then again that costs money and heaven forbid we don’t want to spend that, much better to keep shooting unarmed people and just say I was scared for my life.

I believe the officer should face charges for murder. I believe the chief and the mayor should face charges for accessory to murder. This officer was put on the force as part of a diversity program. In two years he already had accumulated several complaints by women for his treatment and was currently facing a civil suit by a woman that claimed he brutalized her when he responded. He should not have been on the street as a cop. But the chief and the city refused to do anything to protect the citizens from this guy. So he shoots Justine Damond who, by the way, was an Australian citizen coming up quickly to the marriage to her American fiance. She called in what sounded to her like a sexual assault going on behind her house. So the cops were responding to a sexual assault call. Why in God’s name would they shoot the first woman they see? When you dig into the timeline on this one, it gets dirtier and dirtier.

So I wonder what happened with the suspected sexual assault?

@chyna Shhhh! It was another cop! Nobody will ever know!

2nd degree murder. She wasn’t killed by accident (3rd degree manslaughter) and wasn’t killed by premeditation (1st degree murder.)
The officer broke the #1 rule of gunplay: you don’t pull a gun on someone if your life isn’t in immediate mortal peril.

@kritiper I even have to question the lack of premeditation. Look at the timeline. The cops are responding to a call for a sexual assault. They arrive and claim no backup is needed. Then, before even getting out of the car, Noor (the cop) draws his gun and reaches across his partner to shoot through the driver’s window the first woman he sees. 2 minutes after calling in no back up is needed, they are calling in the need for backup and for an ambulance and fire/rescue. Now I’m trying to picture what is going on. The shooter is sitting in a car with his gun on his hip. He draws the gun, which in my mind is a difficult thing to do while sitting in a car, and shoots a woman that is approaching the car wearing her pajamas. He either intended to shoot her as he was arriving and had his gun drawn, or he had enough time while working the gun out of the holster to see the woman offered no threat and he shot anyway. Either way there was enough time to think about it. 2nd degree at the very least with 1st degree being on the table. Tie in the previous complaints and lawsuits against this individual and you are starting to see a pattern that might lead to premeditation.

@seawulf575 Premeditation takes longer than the 30 seconds before the gun was fired in this case. He would have had to plan to kill her hours before.

Maybe he was just a sick, trigger happy idiot, who never should have been a cop in the first place…. I still doubt he will be found guilty of any crime…

@kritiper, given his history as a police officer, he might have concluded long before that any woman that got sexually assaulted deserved it and shouldn’t be allowed to taint society. He apparently had no respect for women in the first place. My point is that to draw your gun and shoot a woman in her pajamas at the scene of what was reported as a sexual assault seems extremely odd and I wouldn’t pull any charges off the table until I fully looked at them.

With all this banter, I highly doubt the cop will face any charges, they seem to be above all that,I still believe after all said and done he will simply move out of state and continue being a cop somewhere else.

@seawulf575 Assuming one might kill another as yet undetermined person is not premeditated 1st degree murder. He (the shooter) did not know THAT particular woman or have and plan to kill or have a notion to kill THAT particular woman. The law is quite clear on this.
I’m sure the persons investigating the case will consider many things before actual charges are filed and not “pull any charges of the table” until then. But I believe 1st degree murder and 3rd degree manslaughter won’t be charged, and I’d bet money on it.

@kritiper I personally believe it will wash out as 2nd degree murder, but I will be surprised if they bring any charges against him. They value their diversity over the public safety so this one will fall by the wayside.

@seawulf575 If I am correct, the law mandates that if a person gets killed and another person is involved somehow, a basic charge (the minimum) of manslaughter will be imposed and sent to trial. Sure, he might get off somewhat free of consequences but time will tell.

@kritiper Or at least involuntary manslaughter. Or wrongful death. Is as low as one can go.

I do wonder after all the wrongful killings of Black men whether this equally unjust killing of a white woman and foreign national will be the straw that finally breaks the camel’s back and brings more accountability to policing.

@janbb Lets freaking hope so,but I wouldn’t put money on it.

@SQUEEKY2 Me neither. After Newtown didn’t bring about stricter gun regulations, I don’t put my money on any changes.

Am I the only person worried about the woman that was getting potentially raped?

@chyna Wow we forgot.

@Chyna, no, I have thought of that too. While the cops were shooting the person that was reporting the crime, apparently they forgot to look for victims

Well. Technically, the officer did stop the sexual assault….. His style has been called unorthodox….

@MrGrimm888 How do you know?

Last week, In a speech on the US Senate floor lobbying for a law to further raise Police Officers above the law under a guise of police protection, Mitch McConnell stated that the murder of police officers has risen by 500%, but he didn’t say since when. Among other things, he wants all crimes against police to be adjudicated as hate crimes. That includes perceived insults.

According to new national statistics, 42 police officers were shot and killed in 2015. Four percent more law enforcement officers at the federal state, territorial and local levels died in the line of duty in 2015 than in 2014, according to a preliminary report from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund

990 people were fatally shot by police in 2015

A new analysis released on Thursday morning by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund showed that 135 officers died on the job in 2016, the highest in five years but still well within the recent yearly average.

2,508 people have been shot and killed by police since Jan. 1, 2015 according to the Washington Post.

It’s pretty clear to me who needs a greater level of protection in the United States.

@RedDeerGuy1 Involuntary manslaughter implies that it was an accident, not intentional.

@chyna. It was a joke, in very poor taste…. When I worked in the medical field, we had a saying. “All bleeding eventually stops.” In other words, we stop it, or the patient runs out of blood… In this case, the sexual assault was stopped, because the victim was killed…

@Espiritus_Corvus – They might argue 1 Police officer’s life = 100 civilians. Now do the math.

@MrGrimm888 Yeah, very bad taste.

@imrainmaker Their math certainly looks as how you describe.. I also remember something about a second class citizen’s vote counting only as 3/5 of a first class citizen’s vote. That didn’t work out too well. We’re still paying the price for that little innovation.

We all live under the same constitution with the same rights. Not one of us should legally have more rights than the other. If I can’t have you arrested for telling me that I am a bloviating asshole, then no one else in this country should either.

It’s my understanding that the victim was not the one being assaulted. She was being a good person by reporting her suspicions.

@MrGrimm888, Justine Dumond wasn’t the sexual assault victim. She reported hearing sounds suggesting someone was being sexually assaulted by the side of her house. That’s why the police were there. Sadly, one of them shot her for reporting a possible crime.

I agree with @chyna, there’s really been no explanation for what happened to the sexual assault victim or what might have made Dumond think such an attack was happening.

There was a loud noise just before the woman was shot possibly making the officer believe it was an ambush and that the woman was a decoy. She could have been hiding a gun but never displayed one.

@kritiper That’s possible. But quite a stretch. There are any number of apparently poor decisions made by the officer…

Sorry @chyna…

@MrGrimm888 Yes, earlier in this thread I stated the one main serious mistake he made. But the noise thing was a report I heard…

I’ve heard that too @kritiper. Unfortunately, the officer (to my knowledge) isn’t speaking and he has previous black marks against his name. Also, his partner didn’t feel so threatened he needed to shoot a woman dead.

It doesn’t matter if there was a noise or not, or whether his partner felt threatened or not. What I said in my first post stands. There was no immediate visible threat that required any gun to be pulled and shots to be fired.

Take his working license and send him to jail.

Idiots like that should never be given weapons.

Part of the problem is just getting people though. The US needs LOTS of policemen. Standards have to be curved by the talent pool. If we only had the best, with great brains allowed, there wouldn’t be enough LEOs to meet demand.

There are plenty of people who could be good at the job. But those people usually do other jobs. With far less risk, and unwinnable situations…

I’m not excusing some of the actions that the US police have taken, but there aren’t a lot of people signing up for this job. As stated above, some try to get into it for the “power.”

It’s hard to fill ALL the positions needed in law enforcement, with the applicants who are applying…. And still have perfection, as far as mistakes. Some jobs, you can make bad mistakes. In others, a human error can lead to a loss of human life…

It just “Is what it is,” sometimes….

Prison time, termination, lifetime ban from working in any law enforcement capacity. There are plain security guards out there who handle situations more potentially dangerous, and in a more professional manner. I fail to see how these officers could have felt that they, or the public at large, were in any danger from this woman.

@kritiper as for the loud noise, none of the neighbors or other witnesses heard anything. The only person to hear it was the cop that shot the woman.

@seawulf575 OK. But it still doesn’t matter.

@MrGrimm888 You are way too easy on the police.

It is a profession with both extraordinary civil liberties that enable them to do their job, but with that come enormous responsibilities to the public whom they have sworn to protect and who also place a trust in them to do so in exchange for those liberties. There are many professions of public trust—the first of which comes to my mind is the medical profession that is sworn to give equitable healthcare to the public without prejudice.

It’s all about about proper job screening—including psychological screening—and training, but the police departments in our nation, for the most part, don’t appear to get that. It is not all about crime, per se. It is more often about dealing with seriously disturbed people, the mentally ill and the homeless. But very few police departments train for these groups.

How long do you think a nurse could stay on the job if not properly trained to deal with the above categories? How long do you think they would stay if they didn’t have the training that enables the confidence that they will not succumb to the contagious diseases they must confront? How long do you think they would stay if they weren’t properly trained to handle—and hold the hand of a patient while they scream and writhe while they wait for the morphine to take effect? How long do you think they would stay if they didn’t truly believe that their profession contributed to the greater good? Poor morale would be rampant, turnover would be unacceptable and crippling.

Thus, poor morale and fear of the people they are sworn to protect is rampant in our police departments. The reputation of what should be a noble occupation is ruined in the eyes of the public. And, therefore, a lot of the people who apply for this job are fewer, are often either desperate, have power issues, or sometimes they are the type who are so highly inspired too protect and serve that they apply no matter what the pay or conditions. The last group, I would imagine, won’t stay very long when they confront the cynicism and poor morale that exists in today’s police departments.

Given the proper training to do their jobs—like in any other occupation—would greatly improve morale, shooting deaths by police would drop as they learn tactics other than relying on their weaponry and their public image would improve. The gene pool from which the recruit would improve and screening could be more discriminatory.

But that is not what is happening. Police departments, backed by the national agencies including the FBI, have chosen to take a bunker mentality to increased shooting incidents of their own and to those against them.

The height of this mentality was represented by the head of the FBI on national TV after the Baton Rouge and Dallas police massacre incidents of last year. He told the nation that it was our fault for not respecting the uniform, that police could no longer be blamed because we the people have caused police officers to fear us and paranoia in the national departments was rampant among the police. He did not address why people no longer appear to respect the uniform He blamed the problems the police have with their public image on the public. This is deep denial on a national level and it shows a disinterest in instituting changes. But no one held this man’s feet to the fire.

And now our Senate wants to pass laws to raise police officer’s above the law under a guise of police protection. They want all crimes against police officers to be adjudicated as hate crimes, among other things. This includes perceived insults. Using profane or derogatory terms when telling a policeman that they are wrong will become a crime and place a citizen in risk of arrest.

Instead of spending more money on proper training to deal with the idiosyncrasies of the public they must confront and are sworn to protect, they continue to militarize and rely even more on weaponry. The leadership of our police departments have failed and continue to fail both their employees and the public.

And, unsurprisingly, the shooting deaths on both sides continue to increase.

^I’m not easy on anyone. As a LEO, I hold my men to a strict standard. A standard that I myself am starting to fall short of. I’ve been losing my patience a bit lately with people. I plan to be leaving my profession soon. In large part because I’m just burnt-out…

Dealing with people is always difficult. Dealing with people when their lives, and /or your own are in potential danger, is really hard. Often times there is no correct action. But some action must be taken. Police often have to make quick decisions based on limited/no information. And that decision could kill someone, or themselves. As I mentioned above, there are simply too many officers needed. And the pool to choose from isn’t always ideal. Unfortunately, you don’t always know that someone isn’t fit to be a LEO until they are in a no win situation, and they make a bad decision. Then it’s too late to go back in time.

Let’s say you are in charge of hiring cops (fresh from the academy) in your town. You need 50 full time officers, to fill the needs of the jurisdiction. You probably need 100, but your funding a lots for 50.
You interview 200 candidates. In your opinion, only 20 are mentally sharp enough to do the job, and have the temperament required. But you HAVE to have 50. This is a huge problem. Trust me. In my private security company, we have over 100 officers. IMO, only about 6 are guys I choose to work with. Probably less. But that’s who applied, and were hired. We can’t just make people who would be good cops, cops. Some cops start out great, then become jaded, or corrupt, or whatever. Some good cops die, or retire.

In the mean time, crimes still occur, laws still need to be enforced, etc.

I’m not sticking up for LEOs who do a bad job. I’m trying to explain part of the problem.

Most consider me to be very good at what I do. But I hate my job. I’m super tired of dealing with people’s BS. I’m tired of being hurt, or hurting people. I have ended up doing this work because I’m bigger/stronger than most people. I’ve tried to succeed in other jobs, but fall back into this crap when nothing else is fruitful.

Yes. There are many problems with the way LEOS are trained. And many people doing it who shouldn’t be. But there aren’t a lot of alternatives. Until we have armed robots roaming the streets….

Years ago we lived in Delaware. I noticed that everywhere I went in my car, when a policeman was behind me he was tailgating me. It was a regular thing. I remember seeing road signs warning against tailgating. Many a time I considered brake checking them, but I never screwed up the courage.

You could get ticketed for tailgating. But the police there were so special they were above the law.

^They do a lot worse than tail gate…

So @MrGrimm888 How do we convince the higher ups the average police officer needs, no screw that, MUST have better training so these shootings of unarmed civilians stop being so common place??

There’s a lot to that. First you have to somehow untrain the current force. It’s not easy to change a reflex. Secondly, I know some places are already installing new training. The “higher ups,” are under tremendous pressure lately. Whether they are good/ethical people, or simply under pressure from lawsuits, they are on the hot seat. The public is fed up (rightfully so) and changes are expected. The training is designed to keep the officer safe. It doesn’t focus on the person they might be shooting at. Most officers are trained to put as many rounds in the subject as possible. Stop the threat from hurting them, or others. The problem is, of course, sometimes the officer perceives a threat where there isn’t one. Perception can have more to do with a person’s life experiences, or lack of experiences, than training.

As much as I find these officer involved shootings deplorable, I could only think of making them all unarmed, as a way to lessen the frequency. But it’s hard to think that’s realistic, in a country with so many guns.

Like I said though, one of the biggest problems is the pool of applicants. I have no clue how to address that.

My only suggestion would be start them with a taser gun then first,instead of a firearm.
I realize that cops have a very hard job to do, and I sure as hell wouldn’t want it.
But has the states become so bad and hostile that these officers are that afraid for their lives every second that they shoot unarmed women in their pjs?
And if they are that afraid for their lives maybe they should think of a different job.

It’s like teaching people to drive a car but not teaching them how to drive defensively.
Knowing how to shoot a gun is one thing, knowing when to employ it is another. Carrying a gun is no big deal, but when you pull it out, you cross a line. You REALLY need to know what to do when that line gets crossed!

Nice point @kritiper I am a firearm enthusiast I have never had to use one of mine to protect myself or Mrs Squeeky,and hope I never had to but if it came to that I would be able or at east hope I would be able to use it.
But unlike the police we civilians are accountable for what we do with our firearms.

Yes @MrGrimm888 Here’s another true story that really freaked me out. It really highlighted the “us against them” mentality of the average police force. In my situation, the bottom line is that the Delaware state police operate on crisis mode. They won’t- or can’t return phone calls, and they won’t tolerate you just showing up.

For over a month I called and called. Each time I got an answering machine. Finally I ended up finding someone with a beating heart- a receptionist who made appointments for job applicants who needed to be fingerprinted. She asked me what job I was applying for, and I said I wasn’t applying for any job, but since getting my fingerprints taken meant I got to talk to someone, to please set me up. She said she couldn’t do that.

I said, “Okay, it’s clear that the state police do not care about the people they serve. Over a month ago I was threatened by a DMV employee and the police officer at the same location. I’ve been calling for weeks and have left more messages than I could count. Nobody has ever bothered to call me back. You’re the first person I’ve had a chance to talk to, and you can’t help me. I’m coming over there right now!”

She said I couldn’t do that, that I would get arrested. I told her that would be fine. I was retired and had plenty of time. Not only would I get to air my complaint, but I’d be on the evening news too. Everyone would know what happened that day at the DMV, maybe there’d even be a lawsuit, and my problem would be addressed!

I told her to have someone call me within 40 minutes or I’d be in their driveway, and they could arrest me. Someone FINALLY called me back.

So if you see a policeman acting wrong, unless you want to spend hours and hours for weeks on the phone, risk getting arrested- or worse- you’re screwed!