Do men and women agree on what makes a woman attractive?

Oh where is DarkScribe and his family of beautiful women when you need him?

I think the biggest turn-on for men and women is (should be?) someone who is comfortable in their own skin, comfortable in their clothes and interesting to be with. But maybe that’s because I can’t wear high heels. :-)

I thought men and women don’t agree on anything…

I don’t know about “extraneous things,” but I put effort into my appearance for myself, not to be noticed by other people. If others notice, great; if not, no big deal.
I know girls who go out of their way to try to look attractive to men. I’d label them as desperate; so would the men.
Most men I know are in the middle. They don’t want a woman who’s narcissistic/ tries too hard, but they don’t want a slob either.

I’m more attracted by confidence than anything.

I’m a woman answering what I feel makes women attractive in my eyes:

Shiny clean groomed hair

Face skin you can see, not buried under matte makeup and powder. I want to see some shiny spots come through, I want to see some real pink color in a flush.

Clean smelling, not so much confusion with deodorant/soap/shampoo/perfume/detergent smell on clothes

Tailored clothes no matter skinny or fat

shorter manicured fingernails rather than long fake plastic paddles covered with thick globs of acrylic or yellowed natural nails grown into gnarly claws

Woman who doesn’t feel the need to ape men’s mannerisms or appearance in order to feel powerful

Charm, tact, humor, wit, confidence, compassion, resilience and determination

@hungryhungryhortence Sounds good to me. But it doesn’t explain what I see, for instance, on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Or even daily among the co-eds at the University I go to.

Do you think the women of the Uppe East Side of Manhattan are dressing for men or each other or their own self-image? I don’t know that it’s sexual per se or more for status.

And how about collitch gurls, @janbb? And my own girlfriend, who believes she is unattractive because she no longer has a BMI of 18 or fits into a size 4?

Oh not disputing that women (including moi-meme) have body image problems. Just in that one example, I see it as dressing more for status/power than to attract men. Although, maybe the rich bitch has to look sexy to show the status of her man?

Good question. I would like to know what men see as attractive. Is it the tall, thin women with plastic looking faces dressed to perfection? Or is the women who are normal, 5 ft 2, and average looking but have so much to give and have actual personalities? Hoodies and tennis shoes vs. dresses and heels?

For me? A woman’s eyes, hair, overall body type is what attracts me first. But it’s her personality which seals the deal.
Too skinny = No thanks
Too fat = No thanks
Normal = Just right

@chyna Height isn’t too much of a big deal as long a the woman isn’t taller.. which .. isn’t 100% true either.. some guys don’t mind looking like “the little one” .. =D
Hoodies and tennis shoes and dresses and heels (depending on the situation)
Plastic face = No thanks
Average looking with a personality = Yes, please!

I can only answer for myself of course.. every man is different.

I think I have answered you for myself, @chyna, but it would really be nice to hear from more men, wouldn’t it? I have an ancillary question: Does anybody really think fake breasts are even the least bit appealing? How do we explain those?

@pdworkin Only from a distance.

I saw a great ad for plastic surgery. A woman is walking along and says, “My friends think my new breasts are wonderful.” So do you get them for other women??

Thanks @NaturalMineralWater. I love it when you and I agree.

What I don’t understand is why when someone gets breast implants, they do everything they can to show them off. They wear tight, low cut shirts. I have big boobies and do everything I can to minimize them, to not draw attention to them.

I will never know, but all my friends with large breasts say that they are inconvenient.

@pdworkin what really curdles my milk is those over-sized.. ridiculously large behemoths some women think are attractive… the ones that a doctor .. um… built? for them… you know.. the ones larger than a human head… or bigger… gross.

Oh.. and giant muscles on women is highly unattractive too. I think we’ve covered that in many threads.

@NaturalMineralWater Curdles your milk??

@janbb Yeah… as in.. the milk…. that’s sitting in my fridge… instantly curdles… when a woman such as I have described is within range.

@NaturalMineralWater Nice save.

@janbb It wasn’t a save.. it’s.. how I use that figure of speech. Is that the wrong way to use it? LOL!

Since all men do not agree on what is attractive there is no way men and women will find the same things attractive. Hell, my wife and I don’t even have the same tastes.

Let me say, I do see the little things, and I have been turned-on by beautiful eyes with long lashes, but it’s not like it’s mandatory.

@NaturalMineralWater I jsut found it a funny image since we were talking about women’s fake breasts.

@janbb I’m a quirky guy.It’s my gift/curse

@janbb

All the girls walk by
Dressed up for each other

Van Morrison Wild Night
I think there is an awful lot of truth in those words

I think someone tells size 4 women when they are little girls that they Must be thin and I think it stays in their brains forever. i know it’s in mine and I don’t feel sensuous anymore. men and women generally appreciate the same things-hygiene-but, thank god- everyone likes a little something different. and i put my eye makeup on for at home, when i’m camping, sometimes if i’m sick! for.me

I just wonder then, why movie starlets and porn stars, and Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition and Playboy, etc. almost always feature lean, leggy, hairless perfect specimens complete with makeup if they are not the idea of the perfect woman in the eyes of the users, namely men.

I find the LL Bean catalogue (now you know where I buy my clothes heheheh) has ever changing female models, always young, even though a lot of their clothing is geared towards more mature tastes. Whereas the men are often held over from one year to the next, there are 2 in particular with graying temples who have been around for quite a while. No gray hair on the females or wrinkles either.

I think society, culture, whatever places more emphasis on the outer appearances of women than on men and a lot of women accept that and conform.

Just my humble opinion.

@rooeytoo To an extent you are right. That’s just how our society has evolved. I think the emphasis on the outer appearance of males is there.. it’s just not as prevalent and as marketed. Wherever the money is.. that’s where the market will go.. and with it.. certain tendencies of our society.

Is it right? Certainly not. Unavoidable? Probably.

pdworkin asked: “Do women do extraneous things to themselves in the mistaken belief that they must, in order to be attractive to men? How much do we notice, guys? Has eyelash length, or fingernail perfection ever been a deal-breaker for you?”

I remember a silly conversation with my ______. She had this marvelous way of testing me on other women—endlessly curious about what I might think was attractive. We were living in Lucerne at the time, and she had gone out to the store to get milk, “only milk.” When she returned, _____ had purchased brand of diet cereal. She came in the door and made sure to make enough noise to get me to come out to the kitchen, where, in a very obvious way, she placed the box in a place and manner that made it clear that she wanted me to see the image of the woman on the front. She then pivoted, did the hair flip-hand-on-hip-motion that always indicated her impatience with my lack of immediate reaction. At these times I always knew the “game” was on. If I resisted comment or made an effort to seem oblivious, I could bring out the cutest wrinkle in her forehead. The sort of wrinkle that indicated that her thoughts were ready to bust out in a passionate way. I must admit that I found this game completely endearing, even though it was difficult for the first ten minutes.

After ten minutes of silence she would always break down and I would admit to knowing what she was after. The best medicine was to take her, by the hand, in front of the Cheval. I would look at her indirectly in the mirror, and pretend to be another man looking on…sometimes using a German or Italian or silly American (southern or perhaps New Yawker) accent…run my hands through her chestnut hair until her blue eyes teared up. After hugging her I would ask as simple question, like the one I did on that day: “_____. The people who designed that cereal box. Did they create that image for me or for you?”

Of course, she had to admit that the image wasn’t meant for guys at all. Then I would make her laugh out loud. I would paint a picture that settled the image question once and for all, by asking, “How many guys would buy that diet cereal if it had a handsome man in tight jeans, caressing his ass?” ______ would laugh until her sides hurt.
Every real man out there who has the love of his life doesn’t give a damn about “eyelash length and fingernail perfection.” Yes, women often have the mistaken belief that certain things are more important than they actually are.

Any guy who demands more physical perfection of the woman that he supposedly loves than he requires of himself really has no idea how fortunate he is. Any man who has loved and lost knows better.

I’m sorry to go on and on, but I lost one and only love of my life to cancer 20 years ago…and I still miss her. I’d be willing to go through this “game”, as much of a pain as it was sometimes, every day to have her back.

@davidk Wow, that’s all I can say.

@davidk What @chyna said.

@davidk Beautifully said. I’m sorry for your loss.

All of the women I know admit to dressing/wearing make-up more for other women than to impress a man. I don’t know why we would do that, but it does happen. Once we get a little older, we usually start to dress to please ourselves. For me, that means jeans and a polo shirt, no make-up on a daily basis, hair in a ponytail.

What I find attractive in another woman varies widely, but essentially it’s confidence. A big genuine smile is the most attractive thing anyone can wear.

AND NO FAKE BOOBIES!

No. I don’t think any (straight) guys are into earrings on women, really. But women seem to like them. That’s just one example which makes me assume there’s more.

And the only time eyelashes are a potential dealbreaker, is if they’re fake ones. I couldn’t care less what they look like otherwise.

@pdworkin I wouldn’t say I’m attracted to fake boobs, but I’m certainly curious (I am a young guy after all). My brother’s roommate has very large, fake boobs that she is constantly touching and scratching and what not. I can’t help but feel my eyes gravitate toward that area when her hands go there.

I find a lot of things that women do don’t do much for me personally. Eyelashes, long fingernails, high heels and the like are all things I don’t care about too much.

@davidk That was a very lovely and sad story, beautifully told. I’m so sorry that you lost her.

Only partly.

I suspect that not only do men and women not agree on what makes a woman attractive, women don’t all agree on the standards among themselves, and men don’t either.

One man’s turn on is another man’s turn off.

I think the images in the magazines are culture bound, and we are expected to react a certain way. If I were to try to indicate what I think the true standard of beauty has always been for men, since pre-history (because the phenomenon of sexual attraction is an adaptive mechanism, and pretty much hard-wired) I would say look at the paintings of Courbet, or Reubens.

I do think it is true, as @rooeytoo pointed out, that in general youth is a feature of attraction because older women are not as likely to be candidates for bearing children, whereas men can produce viable sperm into old age, so if an older man has status, or is seen as being a provider (has wealth) a woman can still find him attractive.

Being attracted to skinny women is maladaptive because having less then about 26% subcutaneous fat by body weight can be a sign of amenorrhea.

Being attracted to obese women is maladaptive for the same reason. Women with over 39% body fat can also fail to menstruate, and the name of the evolutionary game is procreation.

I also wanted to thank @davidk for his thoughtful and moving answer. I am crazy about my sweetheart, and grateful every day that she wants to be my companion. I have said before, and it is true, that I hope I die first because I would not want to live without her.

I was thinking about how our age and class identification influences what we find attractive. If you were a hippie in your “yute” and are now 60, for example, would you be more inclined to find women who dress more naturally, wear jeans and don’t wear a lot of make-up, attractive. If you grew up in the early 50s, wold you still be attracted to women in shirtwaists, high heels and flips? Or are men of any age just attracted to what the current images of “beautiful” young women are because they are hardwired(?) to still (?) want to reproduce?

Maybe I’m hormone-deficient, but I am around beautiful young provocatively dressed co-eds every day, and I have no sexual interest in them at all. It would be squicky anyway, they are 10 years younger than my daughter. I start noticing women when they are closer to my age; definitely post-menopausal. I wonder what that means?

Probably that you’ve done your fair share of procreating already.

But I do think there is a serious question there. As a woman, I certainly find many young movie stars and real life boys attractive (young skin is so beautiful) and also, for that matter, appreciate young pretty women. But I am more drawn to men my own age.

squicky?

Ok, yucky.

I liked “squicky.”

Gotta learn one new thing before lunch every day. I guess “squicky” is it for today.

Portmanteau word for squirmy and yicky.

@janbb, what are you, Fwench?

No, but I love Alice in Wonderland.

@Darwin Do you ever have to eat lunch really late?

Rarely. So much to know, so little time. Of course, some of it isn’t really valuable knowledge, but it is new. To me, that is.

more, more, more more, MORE MORE MORE

dee dee dee oh-h-h….I know a house

I think it was a very hallucinogenic book before we even knew about hallucinogens.

Gotta get my new copy so we can quote chapter and verse.

Sorry @pdworkin – your thread is now seriously derailed. (And that’s hard to do, Rocky.)

@janbb what are you, Bullwinkle?

I actually always saw myself as more of a Mr. Peabody type.

But Bullwinkle’s voice is just so right for saying things at times.

Gotta get myself another hat!

@Darwin Think we’ve got the makings of a two woman routine?

@janbb – Maybe but some people are convinced I’m a boy. Generally, though it’s only those who don’t like me.

Sometimes, it’s not so easy being Fearless Leader.

@Darwin I thought you were a boy for a while but soon learned the error of my ways. Maybe it’s that cute doggie face?

We get Moose and Squirrel soon, Boris,o.k.?

Get a room, Boris and Natasha.

@janbb – The dog is a girl, too. Her name was Gracie.

Well this is a pickle…actually its more of a kumquat.

@Darwin What’s a pickle – er kumquat?

I want my kumquats!
Mr Muckle

Oops, wrong hat.

Had to Google that one. Guess you guys are way older than me. Or at least one of you.

Fanmail from some flounder? My brother and I say that all the time and my husband – being English – has no clue.

[mod says] Ahem. Back on topic, pretty please. :)

@augustlan But if @pdworkin is participating in the derailing of his own thread? Just saying….

o.k., o.k., I’ll be good, Mommy.

@rooeytoo I just wonder then, why movie starlets and porn stars, and Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition and Playboy, etc. almost always feature lean, leggy, hairless perfect specimens complete with makeup if they are not the idea of the perfect woman in the eyes of the users, namely men
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Are you saying that men only like that look because that is what is presented? So if the porn folks and movie starlets were short, fat, hairy and ugly, that is what you would prefer?

Interesting theory…

@rooeytoo I am distinctly unattracted to “that look”. I think that anyone who makes herself deliberately hypersexual probably has some fundamental problems to deal with, and would not make anyone a good companion. To me, porn folk and movie starlets look like narcissists and histrionics and borderlines.

@rooeytoo When my son was about 5, he asked, “How come most men are attracted to tall thin women with blond hair but marry short, plump women with dark hair?” I wonder what he was responding to. Is there something innately more attractive about the image?

@pdworkin – Okay, I accept that. I still wonder though why “hypersexuall” is what is portrayed if it is not what __most__ males want? I guess it has to do with where you draw the line or what is the difference between “sexy” which I think you have said you admire and “hypersexual.”

I wasn’t quite sure what @Adagio was getting at.

To me it is also interesting that someone always brings it back to the subconscious biological salvation of the race approach. Doesn’t the brain come into play here, I don’t really believe all people only hook up because they want to reproduce like bunnies.

It’s what they want to think about when they jerk off. It’s not what they want to live with or marry.

So you’re saying there’s a difference between who you get off on and who you marry/ live with? Any evolutionary reason for that or is that a modern construct? And is it true for women as well, I wonder?

Not me. I am assuming. I like to imagine making love to my girlfriend, if I want to think about something erotic.

@rooeytoo Are you saying that men only like that look because that is what is presented? So if the porn folks and movie starlets were short, fat, hairy and ugly, that is what you would prefer?

Isn’t there anything in between? You are presenting both ends of the spectrum, most women fit somewhere in between I would have thought. I know I certainly do.

As @janbb says, now the big question becomes, do women want to be masturbation material or wives? It’s not that great a choice in my mind!

@Adagio – that is the point, most of the world is in the middle but that is not what is in the mags or movies, so a lot of females feel the need to mimic the ones in the mags because they assume, rightly or wrongly, that is what attracts men. So the question above comes into play.

Not many males have responded to this question, most of the discussion is between women, what does that say???

I’m a man, and I just tried to explain that if I want to have an erotic fantasy I think about my fiancee.

hehehe, thank you for “trying” I am not that dull, I heard what you said, but last time I check, you are not the only man in the world.

No, but I can’t be that much of an outlier. I must be at least somewhat representative.

Back when I used to fall in love, I had erotic fantasies about the person I was with. It’s been so long since I’ve been “in love,” I don’t think I believe in it anymore. And the erotic fantasies are about people I don’t know personally.

@pdworkin – you are much more secure in your generic opinions than I am. I wouldn’t begin to speak for all women, or even most women or come to think of it any woman other than myself!

But I am sure it will be a relief to those women who are trying to look as they think men want them to. They can relax and stop dieting and shaving and buying wrinkle creams at last!

Personally I am one of those love me or leave me types, and believe me, many have left, heheheh.

@drdoombot Don’t stop believin’!

I can appreciate the beauty of a model or movie star (or a stunningly beautiful stranger) without actually liking them. Physical attraction =/= mental or emotional attraction.