Social Question

eLenaLicious's avatar

My fellow jellyfish(lady jellies specifically), does today's abuse of the words "b****es" & "hoes" in music bother you a little?

Asked by eLenaLicious (822 points ) February 9th, 2010

I mean I am not hating on hip-hop entirely (some of their songs are actually pretty good), but I am just saying; don’t you ladies find it a bit degrading? Do you think it gives some men a different and demeaning perspective on women? That we are lower than them?
Don’t get me wrong everybody; I am totally not a feminist, but I am just curious about what you all think about the abuse of those two degrading words in today’s music specifically popular with the youth.
(yeah, and I am also aware that they get paid to say that crap)

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66 Answers

jackm's avatar

According to Dr.Dre Bitches ain’t shit but hoes and tricks

Oxymoron's avatar

Not at all. If I’m not one, why would it bug me? I call certain girls that all of the time behind their back. If they earn the title, why not call them it. Ha ha. Men are going to think what they want. I know my boyfriend sometimes calls girls “dumb bitches”, but he’s the sweetest and kindest man to me. He never says anything like that to me and he has a lot of respect for women in general.

DeanV's avatar

I don’t rap about bitches and hoes, I rap about witches and trolls.

Oxymoron's avatar

@jackm – Most are. 99.9%.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@Oxymoron well yeah, I am not going to be a hypocrite, but I also say those two words.
But I am talking about saying it to portray women as useless sex objects.
Not for fun like how we do with our friends and partners.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

No… It bothers me a lot. Yes, it’s degrading, yes it gives men the wrong ideas about how to treat women.

eLenaLicious's avatar

I know when and when not to say it and how to say it.
The only reasons why I would say such a word is if I am just playing around with a friend or to describe a girl who acts in such a way.

lucillelucillelucille's avatar

I don’t listen to that bullshit music ;)

Your_Majesty's avatar

As people think that it’s cool enough to be heard by cool-community in public.

lilikoi's avatar

Music is a reflection of culture. The fact that people are not very creative in making music these days, and that mainstream music basically focuses on sex and love using a vocabulary that is only a handful of words in size, is much more disturbing than the presence of those words themselves.

Blackberry's avatar

I’m not, but I grew up with it. Yeah, it’s bad, but the people that get offended also have the choice of the radio and not buying the CD. Or they could just not be so sensitive. The people that are influenced by that music are usually not smart enough to think for themselves and you shouldn’t date them.

Oxymoron's avatar

@eLenaLicious – Ohhh okay. Well I think some guys do view woman as objects and nothing more, I see it all the time. Usually they grow out of their stupid stage though. I don’t think it has much to do with the music they listen to though, more about who they hang out with.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@Oxymoron true ma’am…true

lilikoi's avatar

@Oxymoron I think women are to be faulted just as much as men. They may create the demand for this thinking, but women create the supply. You need to have women available and willing to pose in lingerie and skimpy bathing suits in order to churn out SI and VS publications year in and year out.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

I’m a guy and a feminist (yes we do exist) and I find such language extremely disrespectful and degrading. I dislike that type of music anyway, but such lyrics make my blood boil. I’d like to strangle a few of those idiots with their own “bling”.

Facade's avatar

It disgusts me. It saddens me to think that young people (and some old ignorant people) have the mentality that so much of today’s hip hop puts forth.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land wow, a guy like you is hard to find nowadays :P

HTDC's avatar

Those words have become so embedded in society now and are used so often that they’ve lost their shock value. To call someone a bitch or hoe these days has much less of an impact than it did decades ago. People are desensitised to them, but the meaning and effect of these words on women still remains. It is still degrading and demeaning.

Oxymoron's avatar

@eLenaLicious – Good question! =)

@lilikoi – I completely agree with you.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@Oxymoron thank you :)
takes a bow

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@lilikoi I don’t agree. Someone that poses in a bathing suit, or their bra and underwear does not a “bitch” or “ho” make. The two do not got hand in hand.

That’s basically like you’re saying that men are too stupid to figure out that a woman can be sexy, hot, or beautiful – as well as smart and worthwhile.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@lilikoi yes, I do not quite know what you mean…

DeanV's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land “I’d like to strangle a few of those idiots with their own bling”

Now how is that any better than what they’re saying? I don’t like the lyrics either, but there’s still a line to be crossed on the other side, as well. Saying you’d like to strangle them with their own bling is worse than most rap lyrics I’ve heard in the last few years.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@dverhey I guess he is just trying to portray how angry those words in music, and in general get him.
I don’t think he would really want to do that…I hope not o.O

DeanV's avatar

@eLenaLicious There is no good way to tell on the internet.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@dverhey heh, ask him yourself haha

HTDC's avatar

It’s a sad reflection on rappers when lyrically all they can come up with is bitching about women and how much they wanna smack their booties. Seriously, if they can’t come up with anything better to rap about, they don’t deserve recognition.

Blackberry's avatar

@HTDC Word, yo. : )

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@eLenaLicious I was raised to be a gentleman :)
@dverhey I said that “I’d like to…” not that I plan to.

DeanV's avatar

That’s fine, but my point still stands.

If you actually said you plan to I’d be pretty worried.

Symbeline's avatar

I don’t. I use those words alla time myself, so I’m not about to bash others who do, whatever their intended meaning behind said words might be.
There’s worse ways to discredit woman than name calling, and I’ll start by being satisfied that we no longer live in a society where that’s prominent.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@Symbeline Yet we still live in a society where women definitely aren’t equal. Hmm… I wonder why…

aprilsimnel's avatar

It’s not the men I worry about. It’s the young kids, who aren’t mature enough to know any better. Boys and girls don’t need to learn how to call women hoes or tricks either. I’m all for artistic freedom, though, so this is where I believe parents should be stepping in to counteract these messages.

These grown men rapping know that there’s at least one woman in their lives who’s not a bitch, a hoe or a trick, but they’re perpetrating a lie to look hard and macho to make money. And if some rapper out there does think all women are hoes and tricks, well, he’s got a personal problem and needs therapy.

Symbeline's avatar

@DrasticDreamer If that’s the case, it certainly isn’t because of cuss words.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@Symbeline No, you’re right. Right about it being not only because of cuss words, anyway. Derogatory words (cuss words) play a part, among many other reasons.

DominicX's avatar

They do call me “Mr. Make it Rain on Them Hoes”...

I do listen to a lot of hip hop and R&B and such, so I do hear that sometimes (though not as often as some of you might think. There are only a few songs I can think of right now that actually use those words in them). It bothers me a bit. It seems degrading that people think “bitch” is just a general term to refer to women. 9 times out of 10, it’s used negatively, so I don’t see it as replacing the word “woman” any time soon.

I mean, I’m not an idiot. I’ve been listening to music like this for a long time (middle school is when I became really interested in rap/hip hop) and it hasn’t influenced me in any way. In fact, I’ve become more staunchly anti-sexism as I’ve gotten older. I agree with @Blackberry in that sense, that not everyone who listens to this music is stupid, though I’m sure a large percentage of them are.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t take music like this seriously. It’s just fun/funny.

SeventhSense's avatar

Well certainly I am offended and there’s no excuse for that type of language but…
I got bitches in the living room gettin it on And, they aint leavin til six in the mornin

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I love hip-hop but I don’t when I pay attention to the lyrics. Of course it’s sexist.

AstroChuck's avatar

No because I don’t listen to that crap.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@aprilsimnel Excellent point about the effect on young boys. These rappers are role models to them and they are being shown that such verbal diarrhea is acceptable. Also consider the effect on self-esteem these lyrics have on young girls. I don’t advocate censorship, but denouncing this trash for what it is.

DominicX's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land

Let’s face it; it’s probably not the white suburban kids who like rap that develop a sexist attitude because of this music. I would imagine it would be more in the gang-filled neighborhoods and in that case, I would blame it more on their environment than I would on the music. I would like to see actual evidence that this kind of music does influence people’s behavior before I go about denouncing it. This reminds me of the whole violent video games debate…

augustlan's avatar

@DominicX Replace “bitches & hoes” with “fags & homos” or “Jews & kikes”. Still fun/funny? I hate it.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@augustlan we don’t think it’s funny.
@DominicX but it does make it acceptable to use those words more than it would be otherwise

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@augustlan Lurve, as always.

DominicX's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

Well, I don’t want to get into the whole debate about words losing their offensive power the more they’re used. I’ve done that enough on this site…

@augustlan

Well, I have heard “no homo” in several hip hop songs. It isn’t just hip hop, either. I’ve heard it in everybody’s precious rock music too. Like I said, I didn’t say it didn’t bother me at all, I mentioned that it bothered me a bit. I’d have to hear a song with those words in it before I could tell you how much it would bother me. Other times, I simply don’t notice the usage of those words. I do not take hip hop lyrics seriously, because there’s nothing serious to take about them. I don’t have to defend the music I listen to.

I’ve also heard plenty of songs where women use the word “bitch”. I also hear girls refer to other girls as “bitch” and it isn’t necessarily used in the most hateful context either. There’s a difference between “you’re a fucking bitch” and “that bitch be hatin’ on me”. Believe it or not, it isn’t really either of those usages that bother me; it’s the kind where the word “girl” in general is replaced by “bitch”. That I don’t like. It seems completely unnecessary to me.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@augustlan Superb, +GA.
@DominicX Denunciation is not censorship. I’m just calling it what it is IMO, trash. They’re free to say it but I’m equally free to call it sexist rubbish.

augustlan's avatar

@DominicX No, no… I don’t have any problem with hip hop/rap in general. No need to defend your music choices whatsoever. I’m just pointing out that it is offensive to use derogatory words like that, whoever it may be aimed at.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@DominicX You’re right – it’s in rock, too. Which means it isn’t just a rap or hip hop problem…...... It’s a man problem. (That was a joke, just in case it needs clarification. :P)

rangerr's avatar

I’ve got 99 problems, but a bitch ‘aint one.

I just don’t care. If it bothers you, ignore it.

Shae's avatar

I decide how the world perceives me, no one else ever will. So someone using the terms Biotches and hos is not something that I care about.

I don’t hate on women who use their bodies to get ahead either. I choose not to strip or stand on a corner but that is my choice, just as it is theirs.

Some chicks are okay with being abused and degraded, but if someone makes the mistake of believing that b/c I have a vagina I must be like them, I will quickly alleviate them of that misconception.

YARNLADY's avatar

I’m pretty sure it’s just a passing fad. The most successful rap singers are getting rich and moving out in the world, to discover their language isn’t appropriate in the rest of the world. The unsuccessful ones aren’t listened to anyway.

liminal's avatar

@DominicX “Let’s face it; it’s probably not the white suburban kids who like rap that develop a sexist attitude because of this music. I would imagine it would be more in the gang-filled neighborhoods…” I would also suggest seeing some “actual evidence” before going about “facing and imagining” such things. Just sayin’

life_after_2012's avatar

there are hiphop artist like talib qwali , common, jay electronica,nas, andre 3000, mos def, black thought, basicly plenty that have no intrest in degrading women, and still make timeless music. if you grew up listening to hiphop then you already know better then to worry about what comes out on the radio. if you really grew up on hiphop you wouldnt even use your radio unless you had too.

DominicX's avatar

@liminal

Yes, that was my hypothesis, that’s why I want to see some actual evidence on this topic to see if it would be correct. My hypothesis is that this music alone isn’t enough to “make someone sexist”, that there have to be other contributing factors.

Shae's avatar

I find it funny that so many people are ready to jump on rap artists for their depiction of women and never say a word about how Hollywood depicts women.

Or I never hear someone say I am never watching football again b/c so many players actually commit crimes against women.

kheredia's avatar

Any man who addresses women as bitches and hoes is nothing but scum and needs to learn some manners. I do find offense in music that refers to women in this way and I think people who listen to that junk are only giving these jerks the power of creating more scum. Sorry if I come off as offensive to anybody but I feel very strongly about this.

onesecondregrets's avatar

When I take life seriously I want to slap Lil’ Wayne in the face because of how disgusting he talks about women (or any other rapper for that matter) when I’m being a silly sally, I’ll sing the lyrics right a long in the song like they have no meaning. But yes, it does bother me obviously.

JesusWasAJewbot's avatar

Just looking at all these icons makes me not wanna call everyone bitches and hoes anymore, but i only say that cause i dont know yall names personally.

Oh how i love Katt Williams.

Blackberry's avatar

@JesusWasAJewbot Lol…..‘Ladies please don’t be offended when I call ya bitches, I’m just sayin it because I don’t know ya names individually…’. He is one of few comics that still makes me actually laugh out loud even though I know his material.

Leanne1986's avatar

Both @DominicX and @rangerr have already said what I think about this. I’m not bothered by it because I don’t take it seriously. I also find that, like with “n” word, there are some double standards going on here and until women themselves stop using terms like this to describe a fellow woman that they don’t like, they can’t expect the words to disappear.

DeanV's avatar

Just saying, but I find stuff like this or this hilarious. Don’t get all torn up about the lyrics, just make fun of them. It’s much more fun that way.

life_after_2012's avatar

Don’t blame hiphop, blame the radio they pick and choose what gets played, there are plenty of artist that up lift woman in the hiphop community.

eLenaLicious's avatar

@ EVERYBODY:
I am NOT saying I am completely offended.
@life_after_2012
and I am definitely NOT bashing on hip hop
I am also NOT blaming ALL men

eLenaLicious's avatar

Just wanted to get that straight with you all….

eLenaLicious's avatar

@onesecondregrets oh my gosh you should listen to Lil Wayne’s song ‘Every Girl…’
I think it has a nice beat, but the lyrics are pure garbage!
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=every+girl+lyrics&aq=f&aqi=g10&oq=&fp=c26c79a56c95bda8
also I like to F*** by B. Dozier, Hot Rod, and Tila Tequila
http://www.metrolyrics.com/i-like-to-fuck-lyrics-hot-rod.html
Just two of the many “degrading” songs out there….

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