Social Question

SpatzieLover's avatar

What do you think of punishing this boy for defending himself against his bully?

Asked by SpatzieLover (24544points) March 16th, 2011

16 year old Casey Heynes body slams
his attacker after being punched several times. Apparently, both boys received a 4 day suspension.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

36 Answers

Seek's avatar

He’s lucky he didn’t get arrested and expelled, which would have been what happened in my high school. Apparently, the victim is supposed to allow his aggressor to beat the living hell out of him until the adults in the school pull him off.

Personally, I favor self-defense.

JmacOroni's avatar

I think that it is alright that both boys were punished. There are so many cases where it isn’t obvious who started it, or what the involvement was… this was just one incident that was caught on video.
Truthfully, though, I did a little hooray in my head for the kid. He took several punches from that little shit before he fought back, he had every right to defend himself.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

The bully should have been punished for much longer.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@JmacOroni I agree. I guess Casey has been bullied by this kid for a long period of time, which makes me wonder why no one from the school stepped in before this.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I agree. I think he should also get community service or some other punishment.

iamthemob's avatar

I agree with @Simone_De_Beauvoir here. Both needed to be punished…but the initiator should have been punished longer.

I don’t like suspension being the option of first resort. There needs to be some form of mediation at work here.

JmacOroni's avatar

I don’t disagree that the other kid should have had an additional punishment. In an instance like this, where it is pretty clear what has occurred, there really is no reason that the other boy shouldn’t have to do something additional. Community service would be a great idea.

lucillelucillelucille's avatar

The smaller boy deserved what he got.
Too bad the other kid got suspended.He was protecting himself.

Scooby's avatar

I say “leave the kid alone” he taught that small kid a lesson he’ll never forget, obviously doing a better job of it than his parents or the school. Namely ‘it doesn’t pay to be a bully” and also “what goes around comes around” looks like the bully will be saw for a few days, serves him right…… :-/

marinelife's avatar

I think that the retaliating kid should have gotten half the punishment of the kid who hit first.

TexasDude's avatar

In general:

Kids who attack should be punished.

Kids who are left with no choice but to defend themselves should not be punished.

robdamel's avatar

whoa ho, I watched the clip 17 times. I loved it. Okay, i`m gonna go watch Trapt-Headstrong on youtube now…

Cruiser's avatar

I think the kid filming that should have been suspended and the media should be ashamed of exploiting a very personal and unfortunate incident. This should be a private matter handled internally between the school and the parents. Now Casey is a target for the rest of his life. Moving to another school is no longer an option for this poor kid. Plus he almost killed that little kid as he had him upside down going head first into the pavement.

Summum's avatar

I don’t know the reason that the smaller boy was hitting the bigger one but the bigger one had the right to defend himself. But if there were reasons that smaller boy was hitting him it could mean suspension for both students.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

I agree with the Fiddlin’ Bastard. That boy was defending himself and he shouldn’t have been punished for it. The little shit that started it got what he deserved.

I was in a similar situation and was forced to defend myself from a “dirty ho” that had been slapping me around for several years, but none of the teachers or school counselors had done anything about it. When I finally got sick of it and slammed her into a locker, it happened to be right in front of a counselor’s office and he broke up the fight. She got suspended, but the counselor told me he wasn’t going to let me get into trouble because “that girl deserved it.”

It pisses me off that the boy who defended himself after taking a couple of shots beforehand was punished for it.

filmfann's avatar

The smaller boy appears to be bullying a larger, but meeker boy. The smaller boy should be suspended, if not expelled. The larger boy held back several times before finally protecting himself. He should be commended.
When I was in elementary school a teacher watched as another student beat me up. This teacher didn’t like me, probably for good reason, and allowed me to be seriously hurt. To this day, I have neck and shoulder issues due to that beating. The teacher should have been fired, and the boy should have been expelled, but it wasn’t gonna happen.
Schools usually have a policy to suspend both boys involved in a fight. It is one of the most ignorant policies I have seen. When my daughter had her arm broken by a boy (who previously tried to rape her) at school (that’s ELEMENTARY school, btw), they were both suspended. I took the day off, and took my daughter to the movies, and to get ice cream, and told her point blank that she did the right thing.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

The little bastard got what he deserved. The big kid should get ice cream. He didn’t retaliate after the first shot.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@filmfann I’ve already talked to my oldest daughter about bullying and told her that if someone pushes her, slaps her, hits her or whatever, that I want her to fight back. And God help the Principal and Superintendent if she gets in trouble for it.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

When I was a kid my Dad got us boxing gloves and taught us how to use them. Came in very handy a few times. I think kids should be taught how to defend themselves. It’s a shitty world sometimes.

WasCy's avatar

The entire video lasts, what? 45 seconds? a minute? Who knows what the context is behind this? I sure don’t. Maybe the smaller kid (who “appears to be” a bully or instigator, based on this snippet of tape, this tiny moment in time) threw his punches at the bigger kid and this is the first time either of them has seen each other, so this is “totally out of the blue”. Does anyone believe that?

Do you think the smaller kid just decided for the hell of it to start picking on a kid who was twice his size, for no reason at all? I don’t. He may have been a bully for a long time; it’s possible, but this tape proves nothing.

This is what I hate about vigilante justice based on a minute or two of video. I have no idea who the bully was in this case—and neither does anyone else here. Don’t be so quick to judge.

What I will say is that during his high school days, over ten years ago, my son once confided to me that he was being ‘jostled’ in the hallways by other guys just deliberately slamming him into lockers, crowding him into doorways hard, running into him for no reason, etc. I told him that as much as he didn’t want to retaliate (because he takes after me in preferring to be peacefully introverted), if he let bullies think that he could be bullied, then he would be.

We went together to the Vice Principal’s office one day before school, and I related what my son had told me (against his wishes; he did not want to have this meeting happen). Then I turned to my son and in the presence of the VP I told him, “___, if you get hit, slammed, run into, pushed against the wall deliberately, and with a possible or likely intent to hurt you, then you have to hurt the guy who does this to you. Have to. Bloody his nose. Kick him in the balls. Smack him worse. Feel free to fight dirty. Do not be a pacifist too often, or you will be a target forever. You will be in a fight then, and you may get hurt worse than you already are – this one time. But that should end it.” All of the time the VP said nothing, but he never spoke up to disagree.

Afterward, and before my son and I left his office, he told us, “I know who we’re talking about, and I hope it doesn’t come to what you suggest. I’ll be keeping an eye out to stop it if I see it. If the fight happens, I’ll see that ____ is treated fairly, and the aggressors treated appropriately. I know that ____ isn’t a troublemaker; there won’t be a problem.”

We never had another incident. (I didn’t really want to see him get into a fight, something I had never had to do myself.)

josie's avatar

People can say whatever they want, it is morally proper to defend yourself against physical assault.

It would be interesting to know what if any background was involved in this story.

But let’s assume for argument’s sake that it is exactly as it appears.
That being the case, the bully had it coming.

I know very well that these days people want to make all misbehavior a sort of community problem where everybody is to blame or everybody is a victim. I know that is bullshit but still, I am sure there is some school rule about fighting, and so they both get suspended. No big deal-that is equal disciplinary action.

But it was the bully who had a tough time getting up and walking away-that’s justice.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@WasCy See this article from The Daily Telegraph

This kid is known in school as being picked on regularly.

filmfann's avatar

@WasCy Look at the body language in the video. The bigger kid is not agressive, and the smaller one is.
I was tall in school, and the kids who often tried to pick fights with me were runts with Napoleonic complexes. I never provoked a fight, and often walked away from them, but when I did, I won my fair share of them, much to the chagrin of the kids who thought I wouldn’t fight back.

lloydbird's avatar

Seems to me that someone got taught a painful lesson. And that onlookers now know what not to do.
As for the suspension, teachers have to be seen to be even handed and since fighting is not permitted…they had little choice. But I bet that quite a few of them were secretly pleased by the actions of the budding young teacher in their midst.

Cruiser's avatar

What I found most appalling is this kid was set up as the attackers “friend” was there to video this attack…all planned and premeditated. Maybe it was the kid taking the video who was the real bully and convinced the little guy to do his dirty work to make the video even more entertaining to see a wee boy beat up the big fat kid. More and more of these setup attacks are being filmed and I find these events deplorable and criminal. Deep down I am glad to see Casey bring on the hurt to these dumb ass kids.

Both my kids have been teased and taunted at school and they have been told to never throw the first punch but have my permission the finish the fight and finish it good in order to make the suspension worth while.

jellyfish3232's avatar

I think that the kid had every right to fight back! Good for him!

woodcutter's avatar

If that kid is being picked on a lot then I suppose it might be a good thing privately owned firearms are forbidden there. Cause that tends to be exactly the same type of person that shoot into crowds later in life.This kid got to win and so it will be a lunatic who will want to take on the big guy later. It is almost worth being suspended, almost a badge of honor to go with the persona that this kid will mess you up. Good for him he’s in a good position, way better than the little bastard who got what he deserved. That guy is probably some preppy little spoiled brat with no boundary recognition. Bullies blow.

Response moderated (Writing Standards)
chewhorse's avatar

Yep.. School is for learning, not fighting. The kid who started the fight never took into account that other than he would finish it.. Lesson learned. Bullies suck!

al4tyn's avatar

My son has received a day’s expulsion from his school for standing up to a bully. He apparently ‘head butted’ this lad, but the only witnesses are all of his bullying friends. the school chose to give my son the punishment for assault/violence to another pupil. today we have had a re-integration meeting with his teachers and he has been made to sign a behavioural contract to guarantee that this does not happen again. The bully has received no punishment whatsoever. today, after the meeting, the bully continued to call my son ‘gay’ and torment him whilst in school. I have been left with no alternative than to write to the headteacher and the governing body and involve the police. i cannot understand how the victim of this hate crime can be punished, yet the bully, is yet again getting away with it. my son has been tormented by these bullies for years, is afraid to go to the toilets in school, afraid to walk behind them in corridors and he has finally cracked and hit back. please help as i don’t know how else to help him?

SpatzieLover's avatar

@al4tyn Can he use a camera or a digital recorder? If this were happening to my kid, I’d try to keep a record of all incidents, then go directly to the authorities…Not the head of the school. School governing bodies care about publicity, not necessarily the safety or well-being of their students.

al4tyn's avatar

Thank you for your answer SpatzieLover. They are not allowed to take cameras, phones or digital recorders to school. there are cameras in the school but they did not catch the incident apparently. I am fuming but I am determind not to let them get away with it. If I get no response or no adequate response from the headteacher or the governing body, i will get in touch with the local education department. if they do the same I will involve the local paper i think and name and shame the school.

al4tyn's avatar

An update on our situation. I sent an email to the head teacher yesterday outlining my disatisfaction on the way this has been handled. Mentioned the fact that these boys have committed a hate crime which is not being addressed. Had a telephone call from the school at 8.04am and then another at 8.30am today. I have a meeting with the head teacher later on today. I will let you know how I get on! x

SpatzieLover's avatar

@al4tyn Good job! Make certain to take as many notes as you can and put as much in writing as you can. Example on a follow up email: “Per our phone conversation yesterday, you said…”

That way you can keep a trail going.

al4tyn's avatar

Hi x. Had our meeting today with the school head teacher, the deputy head teacher and also a local police officer. Apparently my letter was strongly worded! They are now monitoring the boys in question and their parents have been called in. My son is to get support from all parties now in an effort to increase his self confidence which has been down trodden by these boys for so long. The police were called as they take all claims of ‘hate’ crime very serious. The police officer went into my son’s class today and had a talk with all of the children in an effort to make them aware of the consequences of name calling and how they can be prosecuted for it. My letter is to stay on my son’s file for the duration of his time at the school (the next five years). I have been told today that an emergency Governors meeting is to be held tonight to discuss whether they need to overturn my son’s exclusion due to the mitigating circumstances. I was also told that their procedures are to be amended as a result of the points I highlighted in my letter to them. So hopefully this is the start of a change in my son’s school for the better! Watch this space x

SpatzieLover's avatar

Hooray! It sounds as though your words shook them into action @al4tyn. Glad to hear of some positive action taking place.

lightsourcetrickster's avatar

I know this is (another) age old thread I’m jumping into here, but I remember watching several videos of that hulk smash on Youtube. Self defense is reasonable in any case involving being bullied. If anything I would have given that kid a damn medal.

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