If people lived the Bible even if they were not religious, would not the world be better off?

Let’s not forget the mass killings in god’s name, the women-are-chattel thing, the overt homophobia, and the approval of slavery. That’s just a start.

Seriously? No.

Which version? Cuz King James isn’t too “friendly.” Especially the rape and adultery part.

Without the change of heart, it would be difficult. Keep in mind that the purpose of the Law is to show us how lousy we are.

Not necessarily. There are some brutal parts to the Bible. If the world population tried to live according to the teachings of Jesus, yes, I think the world would be a better place.

You are referring to a fantasy world. People don’t need a book to tell them right from wrong and the bible is full of stories of rape, murder and a hatred of women.

@octopussy The stories are there to provide examples of how people are screwed up, in fact.
People need someone to tell them, or else they’ll just do whatever they feel like. That would include rape and murder.

People already live by the Bible and we still have all of these problems. In fact, some studies have made connections between religion and crime. (Particularly sex crimes, if I’m not mistaken.) One article that I found.
If the Bible were that effective, it would be working. And many of us manage to do just fine living as good, moral people without it.

@nullo I don’t need anyone to teach me right from wrong, and there are millions of people who don’t either. You are right about the bible being a book about how people are screwed up.

Yes, that way my husband can get drunk and sleep with his daughters, woot!

Well, there’s this girl I like but she doesn’t like me, I guess I should get some money together and rape her. Rape scarce as smallpox my ass

it would be better if we all lived according to the new testament, and forgot the old.

Don’t even get me started… I don’t know what bible you’ve been reading… However, if people simply lived by the secular laws that govern this country and most of the world, the world would be a better place. But they don’t. And secular laws are much more clear cut and less contradictory than the laws and moral guidelines of the Bible. Plus we have outlawed slavery since Biblical times. I fine addition and an improvement

And rape scarce as small pox? In Genesis 19:1–13, the story of Sodom, Lot offers up his two virgin daughters to be gang raped by the angry crowd of men outside his door. Thanks, Dad!

The bible is not a monolithic voice that dictates a code of behavior.

There are, more or less, 39 books in the Old Testament and 27 in the New, depending on whom you talk to.That means hundreds of authors writing over a long period of time and having really disparate points of view.

There is, however, the Ten Commandments, if that’s your thing. It doesn’t mention dope tracts (whatever they are). There are some “worship parts” on the list, which is annoying, I know.

It does appear that there were a lot of teen-aged pregnancies, vandalism, cheating, swindling and embezzlement even among those who tried to follow the Ten Commandments.

(And I would wager that most people locked up their oxen and armed their cart alarms.)

This is a difficult question for me because although I believe in the Bible, that from an intelligent perspective is as my own personal choice.

I DECIDED to adhere to it. Not because anyone told me to, or because I was raised around it, it was a late in life choice and it came after learning how the entire thing is fake. I feel that it is poetic, it is chock full of axiom, it is wise, and it gives people something to hold on to, it provides tradition, it allows for research into history that really has no proof as of yet, which to me, makes it more interesting and WORTHY of looking into.

I do not look at it at face value, I am a science minded individual, I believe in evolution as well, I adhere to scientific premise, physics, logic, but there is something inside my hear that by choice, knowing all of that to be truth, I will never let go of.

I look at most of the un natural and impossible stories such as talking serpents and leviathan and all of the connundrums and inconsitencies as things that have to mean something deeper.

I have always understood the times and the people who documented these books as having done so from an incomplete evolutionary place of understanding what was going on around them. These stories, these laws, these rites and beliefs and lines of lineage of the Jewish people are important, and I feel that even an atheist shouldn’t so easily just pass them off as just useless or rediculous.

There are deeper meanings that are more likened to physics, quantum mechanics and the truths of this universe that were documented from an incomplete place of understanding by men who didn’t yet understand the correct ways to relay the correct truths.

I find it fascinating, I find it meaningful, I find it useful, I find it interesting and BECAUSE I believe in science, my mind will never allow me to take a stance of such opposition against the book itself or its belief system, but instead those PEOPLE who bastardize, alter, and use and abuse it for their own sh*ts and giggles and sick means of justifying themselves… Including and especially both the scribes and pharasees as well as the Piso family.

But I will always see it for the wonderful story that it is and adhere to my God, as I understand Him to be through biology, evolution, astronomy, physics, and science in general. I feel… the Bible is a document that is out of time and actually explains quantum events on a very basic and simplistic level through lore and tales that keep people humble, hopeful and together when and if it is adhered to not with the purpose or intent of driving people apart through it because of differences of opinion, but because of those things that make us all similar. That was the point… People screw good things up… There is nothing wrong with the book itself.

Though, on a lighter note, there’s a very funny book called The Year of Living Biblically: One Man’s Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible by A.J. Jacobs which might enjoy and give you some insight how complicated and difficult it might be to actually try to “live the Bible.” And did I mention it was really funny? :-)

Nnnnooooooooooo.
Have you read the Bible? Like I mean the first ¾’s of it…?
By the way Mother Mary was a teenager…. when she got preggiers.

@everephebe I have read it cover to cover numerous times and I have much of it on automatic recall.

But that being said, I can say the same for Hegal and Aldous Huxley, Sartre, James Joyce too so… What does that mean? I don’t know… I use all of it.

@GabrielsLamb I was responding directly to the OP.

@lillycoyote that book looks really good, thanks for the link.

@everephebe Oh sorry honey… my bad! ♥

Ok, so the bible is a long ass book and some serious shit goes down, like incest, genocide, slavery, adultery, murder, stealing, all sorts of sexual deviancy, cheating, raping, cursing entire nations, vandalism, swindling, embezzling, teenage pregnancy, sending plagues, destroying the world in a flood, destroying whole effing cities, the threat of destroying the world again is mentioned at the end which sort of breaks god’s promise to Noah… if I am not mistaken…

And there is some terrible advice in it, terrible even by 2,000+ years ago. Contradictory and everything. Yes eye for an eye? Let’s go back to that sure!~ People do go around murdering each other in the bible. I mean hello, how does Jesus die? Natural causes? I don’t think so…

Would the world be a better place? Hell no. Where is the downside? Um, down as in hellish, yes that would be what the world would be like if we all adhered to the bible. Things would be much worse if more people followed the bible. It’s an old book, and there are really fucking outdated ideas in it. Remember the bible is much longer than the Sermon on the Mount. There is some seriously fucked up shit in the bible, I mean just in Genesis… but all the way through Revelations. There are really great ideas in there too, and wonderful stories and such but… it’s a long ass book and there are a few bits that are really crazy.

My opinion.

P.S. @GabrielsLamb It’s all gooood. I understand.

Yes….but I would still lock your car and doors as there will always be some who didn’t get the memo.

In some respects the world might be better off, if people do that.

Those gains, however, could be far better and more easily achieved by having people adhere to the secular laws as they are valid in most of the countries in the world.

The problem in our world is not that we don’t know how to live a decent live. Laziness, ignorance, bigotry and egocentrism get in the way.

Living the way of the bible comes with a lot of negatives, however, that secular law doesn’t necesarilly comes with. Such as the bible’s negative attitude towards women, the rights of homosexuals and people that are ‘different’ in general.

@King_Pariah Especially the rape and adultery part. Which verses were those? I didn’t catch which part of the Bible that told one to go out raping and or committing adultery.

@octopussy You are referring to a fantasy world. People don’t need a book to tell them right from wrong and the bible is full of stories of rape, murder and a hatred of women. _Please tell me you know better than that? Hatred for women….WOW, I mean wow…

@ANef_is_Enuf People already live by the Bible and we still have all of these problems. Not really. If people adhered to the social behavior of the Bible a whole lot of grief would be avoided. If they followed the Bible with as much zest as they do about not having flame sources around flammable material many crimes etc. would not be happening.

If the Bible were that effective, it would be working. Even with enforcement and the threat of the loss of freedom is less effective, so I guess it works even less. The Bible is only effective if people willingly follow it, since we have no way to jail those who don’t follow it.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Yes, that way my husband can get drunk and sleep with his daughters, woot! If that is all you got out of the Bible, that is pretty sad, I suggest you reread it more carefully.

@whitenoise Those gains, however, could be far better and more easily achieved by having people adhere to the secular laws as they are valid in most of the countries in the world. Some of those secular things causes problems because they are not only excepted but expected. How much grief had happened because people saw or had no qualms in snatching another person’s partner, mate, or spouse from them? Many see nothing at all with being greedy, Fluther certainly complains about those greedy SOBs quite a bit.

Depends on what parts of the Bible. If we all followed “love one another”, “treat others as you have them treat you”, “turn the other cheek”, “judge not lest ye be judged”, etc. I’m sure the world would be a much better place. Some of those things seem pretty basic, but a whole lot of people don’t follow them. Now if we followed the part where it says homosexuals are to be put to death, then I’d like to think that would have an overall negative effect on the world.

Genesis 19:1–8

1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

2 Samuel 12:11–12

11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

Numbers 31:17–18

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Deuteronomy 22:28–29

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

… if not rape, then it’s a clear indication that women would equal property.

@Hypocrisy_Central “The Bible is only effective if people willingly follow it, since we have no way to jail those who don’t follow it.” Well, I consider that a damn good thing.

The fact of the matter is that if people felt the need to ignore all of the “bad” parts of the Bible, and only take away the morals… the need for the Bible itself kind of vanishes. For those of us who receive no inspiration from even the less disturbing parts of it, there is still zero effect on our morals. And that doesn’t stop us from being good people. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with my compassion for other living things. Nada, zip, zilch.
If you want to make up a hypothetical situation in which people just mysteriously all started to live the way of the Bible (only the positive and fulfilling parts) and felt it in their hearts… why not skip all of the excess and just make a hypothetical situation in which people are not generally assholes?

@Hypocrisy_Central. Well King Pariah has skimmed the surface on the WOW parts, so no need for me to elaborate further.

@King_Pariah 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. For one, that was the Old Testament, it was for the Nation of Israel, not us gentile mooks. Second, do you have an inkling why Lot offered his daughters as a diversion? If you don’t. which I suspect you don’t. It would make about as much sense to a plumber as to what emulsifiers and peptides are for.

… if not rape, then it’s a clear indication that women would equal property. That would be a different issue over how people treat their neighbors.

@ANef_is_Enuf And that doesn’t stop us from being good people. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with my compassion for other living things. Following the Bible doesn’t make everyone likes, thieves and cheats either. People are so good without the Bible they only act like fools because the cops, and the military, etc need the work.

@Hypocrisy_Central I don’t really understand what you just said, but I definitely did not say that following the Bible makes “everyone likes, thieves and cheats.”

@ANef_is_Enuf And that doesn’t stop us from being good people. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with my compassion for other living things. Upon further review I guess what I should have said is that if the Bible has no effect on how civil or not man as acted, then the Constitution is equally as weak as to societies sense of fair play, justice and equality. Had no one had the US Constitution as an example they would have come to its ideals and gotten away from kings, tsars, emperors, etc. anyhow.

The fact of the matter is that if people felt the need to ignore all of the “bad” parts of the Bible, and only take away the morals… the need for the Bible itself kind of vanishes. One can also say the mere fact you have to have law enforcement keep the peace shows the need for the Bible less man destroy himself. However, it is not about if the Bible is the Bible but the methodology of it. If viewed as instructions or suggestions the same as one would view a book by Dr Spock, or Einstein it would be hard to say following the part on how you treat your fellow humans could not be an improvement. If anyone has a theory as to why it wouldn’t, which no one has done because they are too busy trying to focus on the Bible being imperfect, I would love to hear it.

@Hypocrisy_Central I just think that it is ineffective in reality, and unnecessary in your hypothetical scenario.
If the Bible were as effective at preventing people from behaving immorally as you are trying to suggest, then we wouldn’t have this complaint in the first place. Predominantly Christian/Bible based religious areas would not have issues with crime (which they do), we would not have high numbers of people who are Christ followers in prisons (which we do), and priests would not be molesting children. That one really needs no clarification. Regardless of the less than appealing aspects of the book itself, it still doesn’t seem to do a great job of keeping people in line.

If we take the Bible as an instruction manual, then why choose that? Why not another religious text? My point is that there are tons of people who do not follow the Bible, and some of us who have no religious or spiritual affiliation at all, who live considerate, moral lives. It is my belief that man is inherently good, because our survival depends on it, and it makes perfect sense that we would evolve with behaviors that support greater odds for survival of the species. But just because that may be true, doesn’t mean that man can not be destructive and selfish. We are still animals. There is no magic switch that is going to change all of that, and certainly not an instruction manual. The people who do things that many others might consider to be “bad” or “destructive” or “immoral” most likely KNOW that what they are doing is wrong. They just don’t care, for whatever reason. Instructions aren’t going to change that.

In any event, the necessity of the actual Bible in this scenario is really nonexistent. Why choose a manual that is full of flaws, overall, as a basis for teaching morals? Why not just teach morals?

@ANef_is_Enuf Predominantly Christian/Bible based religious areas would not have issues with crime (which they do), we would not have high numbers of people who are Christ followers in prisons (which we do), and priests would not be molesting children. That would be true only if the Bible had an enforcement arm. People are humans and subject to failure. But you pointed out a valid point. If people followed the Bible as stringent as they would of not leaving a pot on the stove or a lit candle in the house unsupervised it would. Not leaving a pot on the stove is adhered by most people no matter what race, gender, economic status, education level, age, etc. They do not do that with the Bible. Just because the majority has the Bible in the area doesn’t mean people will use it. Imagine if you didn’t have a seatbelt law and you were able to disarm your drivers side airbag. No matter how safe the vehicle is suppose to be, if near half didn’t use the safety measures provided, they could still be killed in an accident at higher numbers, while in a very safe car, if the accident safety features were used.

If we take the Bible as an instruction manual, then why choose that? Why not another religious text? I can only speak what I know, and I do not know what the other books say exactly.

Why choose a manual that is full of flaws, overall, as a basis for teaching morals? Why not just teach morals? Whose moral manual do you follow? Why do you follow it? Where or how did it originate (with whom or what person)? What makes it flawless or perfect? What authority do they have to say it was flawless and perfect or even moral? Why should I believe a group of people, or a fellow mortal, when they tell me something is moral more than a Bible?

I never claimed that my “moral manual” was perfect. I don’t think there is such a thing.
However, I think that many of the complaints addressed above, like rape, homophobia, murder and misogyny are things that I doubt most civilized people consider to be “moral” behavior. You don’t have to believe it, but I think my own moral code is better than that.

“Behold, for thou hast forsaken thy neighbours donkey. A curse be cast upon thee!!”
You see, that’s some bad crack right there & for that reason alone it wouldn’t work for me.
Anyone spoke to me in that way i’m afraid i’d have no choice but to punch them on the nose….amen!

Actually, killing people is fine according to the Bible, especially if they don’t believe exactly what you do.

Rape isn’t good, but it’s not a huge crime either. You just have to pay her dad some money and you’re good to go.

Plus, think of all the slaves you could own! And you can force them to marry each other!

Long story short, there’s some good stuff in the Bible. The “love your neighbour” and “don’t steal” parts, for example, are pretty good. However, there’s also a bunch of awful stuff. You can look at the Bible and take away any message you want. Some people think that the Bible is telling them to be loving, some people think it’s telling them to hate gays and beat their children. If everyone lived according to the Bible, it would by no means be ideal.

Ethics are essential to civilized society.
The Bible’s many lessons on how to live your life are as good as most.

@King_Pariah & Anuf…

Great responses!

Yes it would be. But why taking only the Bible as example? The Qu’ran has nice parts to live by too.

@Hypocrisy_Central

To respond specifically to:

“Why choose a manual that is full of flaws, overall, as a basis for teaching morals? Why not just teach morals? Whose moral manual do you follow? Why do you follow it? Where or how did it originate (with whom or what person)? What makes it flawless or perfect? What authority do they have to say it was flawless and perfect or even moral? Why should I believe a group of people, or a fellow mortal, when they tell me something is moral more than a Bible?”

Why? Because everything is man made, every ideal, every moral, every choice a man makes is based on tril and error and the wisdom gleaned that came as a precursor by said trial and error.

The Bible is also based on older texts than itself. Did you know that there are 56 books missing from the current Christian Text? That it has… against itself been altered so many times what remains is nary close to the intent, meaning or the beliefs that it pertains to. Nor does it come close to it’s own original premise between the Greek translation and the Hebrew alone the conflict of interest was horrific.

The Christian Bible was written by the Jews and the Piso Family, it was a commissioned text intent upon creating a political and moral ethic center that might allow for people to feel better about their state and condition in life.

As my original post states, at this point in the game, I believe because I want to, it is a choice I have made for myself just as if I adhered to Plato or Aristotle *Which I do actually. I believe that it is best serving a man if he knows the TRUTH historically and morally and then accepts what he desires as his own truth. I just so happened to adhere to the belief that the original Biblical text is in fact a depiction of the body of Christ incarnate but that being said, I am aware of the way it has been altered and bastardized to suit the intent of men with agendas actually against human spirituality.

Everything, every argument in existance, every situation, every circumstance, every text belief or concept has two distinct contrasting sides… It is the rule of life. THAT, is the belief that I cling to in knowledge, understanding and not all this for the sake of he is right and she is wrong which actually ofsets and negates the entire reason for a belief in anything in the first place. It removes the God, and replaces it with personal agenda and argument for the sake of being right, and in no other way holy or righteous.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_piso.htm

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/pisocake.html

Even the factual historical truth here is argued and countered. It just never ends!

@Hibernate The Quaran is so close to the Torah it is comical to even put them side by side and actually find a reason to call them different books by anything other than Geography, language, pride of placement and people.

Oh? So because it’s old testament we can toss it out the window even if it’s in the big old book we call the bible? And I am aware of the story of Lot and know why, I was once upon a time a devout baptist. And why do you only target Genesis 19:8? I supplied you with several verses, would that then be an admission that my point holds true there?

@Hypocrisy_Central: Has no one here said anything that you might concede is a valid point?

Maybe just the 10 commandments part.

Hell No! I don’t want a bunch of religious sacking my town and carrying off virgins and killing the rest!

It most certainly would NOT be better off.

If everyone followed ANY specific system, the world would work according to that system. For example, in any RPG video game you come across a town where everyone is just milling about peacefully. As long as those programs don’t deviate from their coding, everything keeps running til your power runs out.

Essentially, if everyone agreed with eachother about EVERYTHING.. regardless of the religion you choose as the template.. things would be peaceful.

@gailcalled @Hypocrisy_Central: Has no one here said anything that you might concede is a valid point? Someone has made at least one point I can agree on.

Several people have mentioned it but to me it really is the big elephant in the room, to me. Slavery. Nowhere in the bible is slavery condemned as immoral or as a great evil. I happen to think one of, perhaps the greatest evil human beings can inflict on other human beings is to enslave them. What do we do about that issue, should we all decide to start living the bible, taking it as our moral standard? Something that is condemned as wrong in the Bible is wrong and something not condemned in the bible as wrong is is not wrong? Should we make slavery legal again? Is it o.k. because the bible says it is o.k.? If it isn’t, then why not, if we are all going to live the bible and make the world a better place?

@lillycoyote is spot on. The bible makes time to condemn things like not being a Christian/Jew, planting crops in certain ways, and some beard-styles, but no condemnation for slavery? In fact, slavery is pretty much condoned in both the old and new testaments. If we as a society were to live according to the morals of the bible, it would be no great evil to have slaves.

This is one of the main reasons I have for feeling that the bible is not a good moral code. The world would be a pretty nice place if everyone just cherrypicked out all of the nice things Jesus said and abided by those, and then maybe ignored all of the awful things he said, and also ignored the rest of the bible.

I think though, if you’re going to cherrypick the bits you like out of a book, and then live according to those bits, there are better books to pick.

@lillycoyote Nowhere in the bible is slavery condemned as immoral or as a great evil. That mybe true, however, it was also not promoted either._*

@Hypocrisy_Central Sorry, that one, that argument, just doesn’t cut it.

@Hypocrisy_Central I think that the Egyptians beg to differ and the actual BIble doesn’t have too much to say on the topic…other than “Set my people free.” As in from Pharoah

@Hypocrisy_Central It is promoted. In Ephesians, Paul says that slaves must obey their masters as they would obey Christ. In the Old Testament, instructions are given for the specifics of slavery, such as how long you can have slaves, how hard you can hit them, how you can force them to marry each other, or you, etc. In the bible slavery is clearly acceptable behaviour.

The Biblical text was constructed after Christs death, it was compiled by monks who were comissioned to do so on behalf of those who would piece it together from scraps of evidence that are missing now, or at best long gone. The most imperative messages, those of science, and mystic practices were all obscured and removed on purpose. THe Bible as we read it today was a plant in place of the truth that might instead of ALL of THIS banter that is strange how people haven’t figured out how it has indeed BECOME about the banter and not the message whatever that is or what is left of it… this wasn’t the point.

This is self indulgent, this is self righteous, and this was the purpose… TO keep people busy, stupid, arguing and therefore distracted away from the fact that we are ALL slaves to the moral standard Christian religious example that is at best faulty and at worst a travesty.

@Soupy And let’s don’t forget that the Jews got the brunt of that at one time. And the Romans AD took up suit and did it to their own and we all live with the remnants of that condition even today.

@GabrielsLamb The bible has a lot to say about slavery, more than it does about all sorts of things people seemed to be obsessed with it saying, these days. You’re saying it doesn’t?

@lillycoyote Sorry, that one, that argument, just doesn’t cut it. On what grounds, because it did not come out point blank and say “Thou shalt not enslave your brethren”? The Bible comes out and point blank say thing should or shouldn’t be done, and people want to ingore that because it is not saying what they want.

@Soupy It is promoted. In Ephesians, Paul says that slaves must obey their masters as they would obey Christ. That is a stretch don’t you think? From Christ telling his followers how they should act to “Go get you some slaves” The Egyptians and others might have had slaves but they were not God’s people, that is a miss there.

@lillycoyote No, no honey… I agreed with you and soupy. Half of the old testament was about slavery!

But they ENSLAVED God’s True

@GabrielsLamb O.K. Sorry dear!

Never mind.

:-)

Why don’t people put forth a book, or whatever they think would promote harmony and things better? I have heard none of that, only why the Bible is worse at it, yet no better alternative.

@lillycoyote It’s easy to do in these threads… I have seen your words, I think you and I agree most places actually. (◡‿◡✿)

@GabrielsLamb Did you catch the edit? I added something, for you.

@Hypocrisy_Central There are PLENTY… Only CHRISTIANS do not allow anyone to know them, and the Jews have always maintained and kept their secrets.

Try this for ONE… http://www.kybalion.org/kybalion.php?chapter=X

Imagine science and God coexisting and those stupid bumper stickers actually MEANING something?

@lillycoyote I DO follow you right?

ROFLMAO!

Thanks, I just got my head stomped in a Christian Drive by a little while ago on another site… and I REALLY needed that little laugh. You have soothed the savage beast.

*And that aint easy to do either.
Hugs! ♥

@GabrielsLamb

:-)

The Egyptians and others might have had slaves but they were not God’s people, that is a miss there.

Could you please clarify this one @Hypocrisy_Central? I hope you are not saying that it is o.k. to enslave someone as long as they are not “one of God’s people.” Or do you mean that the Egyptians were not “God’s people” so they could enslave anyone they wanted to? What do you mean by that, exactly?

@lillycoyote Or do you mean that the Egyptians were not “God’s people” so they could enslave anyone they wanted to? That by not being God’s people they were not under any of the mandates the Nation of Israel was. They were free to cohort with prostitutes, get drunk, have many gods, etc. They were free to have slaves as well as their idols.

@Hypocrisy_Central Paul was telling people how to act, but it was more than that. He was telling slaves how to act toward their masters. No mention of how it was wrong to have slaves, just telling slaves to act with respect and fear toward their masters, because God rewards good slaves.

I never mentioned anything about the Egyptians having slaves. Though they did have slaves, god’s “chosen people” also had slaves, and the bible gives them instructions on how to treat them, how to beat them, and how to make them permanent slaves by threatening their children. Capturing virgins for use as sex slaves after killing their communities is also something god’s people were given the all-clear on.

I’m pretty sure that we live in that sort of world now. We have a prison system built for punishment, mass bombing of countries with whom we disagree, Our military and prison systems practice torture with various methods. We have floods of biblical proportions, and preachers that condemn on one hand and demand payment on the other.

We still circumcise boys, subjugate women and sometimes mangle and enslave them. All in the name of god.

I would say that many of use are living a biblical dream, of course it is a nightmare for others.