General Question

margeryred's avatar

How can a community of people call a COP KILLER a hero?

Asked by margeryred (289points) July 20th, 2008

http://ghettobraggingrights.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/racial-profiling-cop-joshua-miktarian-eats-ghetto-just-desserts/
I believe in freedom of speech, but desecration of an officer who fought to protect the streets and died doing so is being accused of unproved and unsubstantiated opinions of hateful people.

Not all of one occupation are pure and good people, however, we can trust a good majority of those who do honorable and brave jobs… when is enough enough?

In his high school year book he was quoted as stating that he was going try to help stop racism (ad lib)... (stated during eulogy: http://www.woio.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=2707093&at1=News&h1=Joshua Miktarian’s Team Shares Memories )

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

46 Answers

delirium's avatar

I don’t think there is much point to complaining about peoples opinions in this one area. It just means more hate in all directions. The whole tirade seems sad. All of it.

cheebdragon's avatar

Did you know the cop?

I’d hardly call any cop a hero, firefighters are hero’s….doctors are hero’s…..police are not there to protect you.

jonno's avatar

@cheebdragon – while policemen pehaps aren’t “heroes”, in the sense that they don’t save lives like firefighters and doctors do, to say that they are not there to protect you is ridiculous.

Maybe the police in your area are particularly bad? Or perhaps you believe in the untrue stereotype of the fat, lazy police officer?

jonno's avatar

Also, while I don’t know that case in particular, the question – “How can a community of people call a COP KILLER a hero?” – reminds me of how some people treat Ned Kelly as some sort of national hero. The guy was a bush ranger, who lived a life of crime and shot people – there’s nothing heroic about that.

I don’t mind the cultural effect that he has had, but why people treat him as a hero, I don’t know.

shrubbery's avatar

He was considered a hero because people were treated shit by the authorities in those days and you got sent half way across the world for stealing a bun to feed your dieing family and he stood up to those people I guess. He also apparently “once risked his life to save another boy” according to that wiki article, but yes I do agree with you jonno. Our policemen here in Australia, or at least Tasmania since that’s the only place I’m able to judge, are there to protect you, and they do the best job they can. They are heroes in my eyes. I don’t believe that any kind of murder should be considered heroic, even if he was a racist.

waterskier2007's avatar

@ cheeb, yes they are there to protect you. when a drunk guy is driving down the road and basically has the potential to kill someone, who pulls them over (hopefully). after a burglar has broken into a house with a weapon and then flees the scene, who is called to find them. and im not saying this is the best example but im pretty sure its like a police motto or something “to protect and serve”

btko's avatar

A persons profession doesn’t make him or her a hero. Anyone has the potential for heroics. A Cop can save a partner from death, a gangster can save a friend from the cops. Both are heroes in their own right.

Heroism is subjective, deal with it.

Knotmyday's avatar

In my experience, those who harbor an animosity toward police officers are generally chronic lawbreakers.

If you feel like officers are “picking on you,” tell you what: stop doing bad things, and you they’ll stop hassling you.

Ironically, the same people who complain about the police always get “foxhole religion” and call them when something bad happens to them.

@margery- that article was incomprehensible. The author is obviously suffering from extreme neurosis.

@cheeb, if you are ever happen to get caught in the middle of a armed robbery or a home invasion, make sure you call those big, strong hero firefighters so they can come and…squirt some water around, I guess. (WTF?)

sndfreQ's avatar

Times are dark (and I mean that not in a pejorative way)...

marinelife's avatar

The question of the police in a free society is a complex and potentially polarizing one. Being a policeman or policewoman is a nasty, demanding job. It is very dangerous and police officers regularly do heroic things. Because of the stress and the job demands, they have poor marital records and many broken families.

Unfortunately, it leads to some bad fallout. They come in contact day after day with the very worst elements of society. It tends to make them cynical about people. It also tends to make them band together with a “brothers in blue” mentality that makes them loath to report officers who may be in trouble and should not be on the streets with a badge and a gun.

Also, they are human. We, as a society, want to hold them to a higher standard just as we do our political leaders. Because of the police culture, which is changing, but slowly, they haven’t gotten ongoing training and on-the-job support to keep cops from taking corruption, to weed out cops with streaks of violence or on power trips, to educate about racial sensitivity. We need to do more for them.

At the same time, the police as a group (which of course they are not) are viewed by the black community completely justifiably as racist. There is a not a black man in America in any walk of life who has not been stopped for no reason and to some extent, at least verbally, harassed by the police. Our justice system as a whole (not holding the police solely responsible for this) is definitely racist. That is clear from conviction rates and the sentences and even the executions for the same types of crimes.

Is it any wonder that a militant part of the black community is stirred up by any situation that can be inflamed into a racial altercation?

I do not believe that the whole black community in Twinsburg believes the type of rhetoric that was on the site you linked to, which was a very militant one.

What we have to do is 1) Work hard to eliminate racial profiling and the injustices with regard to race in our justice system as a whole. 2) Meet as communities to work through racial divides. 3) Then try to view each incident as an individual one and not throw it into the stew of racial polarization.

sndfreQ's avatar

If by ”...a community of people” you mean the people who subscribe to that ludicrous blog you linked to, I think that my response would be that that blog is evidence that there are a lot of people out there who have been mistreated by law enforcement and the conditions of living in an impoverished and desperate state of living, who have no venue other than the internet to convey their thoughts, as ill-conceived as they may seem.

As Marina has pointed out, it’s a broken system, and until the voices of their community can be heard by their leaders and law enforcement, and actually engage in dialogue, then we’ll continue to see this cycle of mindlessness and prejudice.

btw, I’m for free speech too (with no but’s).

cheebdragon's avatar

If you think that the police are required to respond to your calls, your in for a big surprise.

XCNuse's avatar

They are required, they are payed by government funding, doctors and firemen are NOT, an area here in Atlanta is shutting down a firestation, and the mayor elect of the county was asked to leave by the people for trying to shut the station down.

Police don’t protect you?

Okay, I’ll remember that next time I see a man holding a gun to a person on the streets, I won’t call the police because they won’t do anything….... right….?

You’re pretty much out of line with your argument cheebdragon, sorry but you’re completely wrong.

cheebdragon's avatar

Really?
“Americans increasingly believe, however, that all they need for protection is a telephone. Dial 911 and the police, fire, and ambulance will come straight to the rescue. It’s faster than the pizza man. Faith in a telephone number and the local cops is so strong that Americans dial 911 over 250,000 times per day.

Yet does dialing 911 actually protect crime victims? Researchers found that less than 5 percent of all calls dispatched to police are made quickly enough for officers to stop a crime or arrest a suspect.[3] The 911 bottom line: “cases in which 911 technology makes a substantial difference in the outcome of criminal events are extraordinarily rare.”

“It’s not just that the police cannot protect you. They don’t even have to come when you call.”

“The general rule of law in the United States is that government owes a duty to protect the public in general, but owes no legal duty to protect any particular person from criminal attack. Neither the U.S. Constitution nor the federal civil rights laws require states to protect citizens from crime. As a federal appeals court bluntly put it, ordinary citizens have “no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen.”

If you still think the cops are going to help you, well…good luck with that, let me know how that works out for you…....personally, i know better, I own guns and I will not expect a phone number or a cop to protect me.

More sites, This is a very interesting read, Oh and here is a nifty video if your too lazy to read.

waterskier2007's avatar

[sarcasm] yeah your right. i should expect a cop to drive 2–5 miles to my house in the time it takes a criminal to come in and shoot me and leave. youre right. good point and i retract my previous statement. i guess we should all get police stations in our basement so they can respond to calls quicker [/sarcasm]

XCNuse's avatar

Last time I checked the oath of the Police Force is to “Serve and Protect”.........

Also, who said that crime was the same as some scheduled plan?
If someone puts a gun to your head and they tell you they are going to shoot you, who says they will wait until police arrive?

Who says he won’t do it the second after he says that?

Who says he won’t shoot you at all and runs away?

Nothing.

Crime to unsuspecting eyes is pure random and unexpected.
Unless it’s a mob it probably is just plain random and unplanned at all and just plain happens.

You can’t prepare yourself for something you aren’t aware of, and that has ALWAYS been true and until we have brain control and crap like that it ALWAYS will be true.

If a tornado came down and tore up your house this second, are you going to blame the weather channel for not informing you 1 minute prior?

Either way, when I see a cop on the side of a road or highway, I usually feel good about my self, because I’d rather see that person informed or at least temporarily pulled over so they don’t kill me being the idiots they are.

Cops on the road save lives every day that we don’t hear about because they get to them before they can be stopped.

.
Let me ask you this, which is better:
Seeing someone get a speeding ticket on the side of the road?
or
Being T boned in the middle of the intersection because the cop didn’t give a ticket to that person earlier?

You’re really not thinking straight at all..

Stocky's avatar

I think it unfortunately comes down to luck like anything else when you dial 911. You could get the guy that just returned from iraq and has been putting his life on the line everyday.That guy gets the call your in good shape, On the other hand if the closest guy to you is a fat lazy piece of shit(ive met them, they work there too) who cant wait to get out of work. Then your kinda screwed. But all in all they are there to protect you and if your lucky they will when you need them.

Stocky's avatar

To comment on the original question though, That is disgusting. And id love to meet the scumbag who wrote that. So can spit in his face. People like that are the reason it takes so long for the cops to show up.

Poser's avatar

@XCNuse—I think you missed the point of the article. It never said that police don’t serve a purpose. The point was that depending solely on the police to protect you might be harmful to your health, and if they don’t, you have no recourse.

@waterskier—I think that’s a great idea. Better yet, I’ll put it in my bedside table.

@cheebdragon—Fantastic article. I think I may now be in love with you.

btko's avatar

When the police get a call, the call or request is placed in priority sequence. All calls are placed in the sequence of importance or direness. If you call the police and don’t even say a word before you hang up, they will call you back, if you don’t answer they will come to your house.

They will come.

Stocky's avatar

I don’t think the question is if they will come. Its when and how effective. I myself have 2 loaded pistols in a safe unlocked nightly next to my bed. In order to protect myself and anyone who is in my home if need be. So chances are im gonna be ok. But if your not like me. then I hope you are lucky enough to get a cop who gives a shit when you make that call. I wont gamble with the lives of my friends and family.

XCNuse's avatar

btko is right.

I tried to setup a phone back in 4th grade to call my friend when I pushed a button. I thought it worked, it didn’t.

It landed up calling the police, I didn’t know it at the time, I heard ringing so I figured it worked and hung up before there was an answer.

About half a minute later I got a call back it was from my county police station, they asked if everything was Okay, I was like Yes everything is fine, this is me, of course back in 4th grade.

About 4 minutes later the doorbell rang, 2 police cars were out front, and said they came because I sounded like a “stressed woman” was the account.

They will come. It’s true.

But if 40 civilians are being held at gunpoint, it wouldn’t surprise me if cops came to my house a little later if I called.

jonno's avatar

@Stocky, I hope you only ever use those weapons if your life or anyone else’s life is actually in danger (which should never happen). Because just because a person is on your property doesn’t mean that they want you dead, nor does it mean that they are a threat. There are too many stories from America about people overreacting, and shooting a burglar.

Stocky's avatar

I dont need you to question my ability decide whether or not my life is in danger jonno, I take offense to the fact that you assume that because I own a gun I may shoot someone by accident. I have the common sense and training to know the difference. But thank you for your concern.

jonno's avatar

Sorry, Stocky, I knew when I was typing it I might come off like that. I don’t know you, of course, so I wasn’t judging you or anything. It was more of a general statement while we were on the topic of police and guns and such.

I am just of the opinion that it is unlikely that one will ever have a genuine need to use a gun, in regular circumstances. And that I know of some gun owners who misguidingly believe that anyone who breaks into their house deserves to get shot, no matter what – from what you wrote, and for all I know, you could have been like that.

But it is your right to have a gun, so go ahead.

cheebdragon's avatar

Anyone who breaks into a house with the intention of doing something illegal, deserves to be shot.

breedmitch's avatar

Nobody deserves to be shot.

XCNuse's avatar

Wow.. okay I’m officially afraid of you now cheebdragon.

Life is the greatest gift known to mankind, and you’re willing to take that way just because someone isn’t thinking right at the time?

Stocky's avatar

@breedmitch and XCNuse it sounds like your assuming that the person breaking in is there to steal your TV. What if he is there to kidnap your children, or to rape your mother,sister…ect. What if he is there to shoot you… Then does he deserve to be shot? And at what point do you make the decision about their intentions. Im not saying that if I see someone climbing through my window im going to blow his brains out. But if you break into my home and threaten me or my families saftey then there is a very solid chance you will be shot. The bottom line is if you dont want to get shot dont break into someones house. period. Because if you are counting on me to know your really a nice guy deep down inside. You picked the wrong way to introduce yourself.

sndfreQ's avatar

I’m gonna by the group a set of these tees for playing… :)

(sorry if mildly off-topic; I thought we could lighten things up a bit)

Stocky's avatar

Thats awesome sndfreQ I want one.

sndfreQ's avatar

Edit: “buy”

cheebdragon's avatar

I guess they should have thought about that before they broke into a strangers home, eh?
And just because someone gets shot, does not mean they are going to die, almost 70% of gunshot victims survive…Hell my neighbor was shot 3 times on new years eve and he is alive and well. But who do you think is more likely to break into another strangers house…..the guy who got away with your personal items? Or the guy who got shot last time he tried to rob someone???

XCNuse's avatar

@stocky, I understand that people will break and entering for millions of different reasons, but shooting someone anyway…?

I mean common.

It’s to hard for someone to believe that gunshot wounded people survive at a rate of 70%, what’s the location people aim at with a gun typically when they are an ordinary civilian? The chest, it’s the largest and easiest target to hit.

You hit the chest you can kill anyone easily, and sometimes instantly if you hit either the heart or the lungs. If you’re shot in the gut you might live for a while longer but you’ll still bleed to death most likely.

I mean I’m not trying to start an argument or anything, but lets be honest.. are you going to pull out a gun first, or a phone first?

XCNuse's avatar

Actually hold on let me rephrase that question:

Would you pull out a loaded gun prepared to shoot, versus a non loaded weapon, or call the police.

Poser's avatar

A loaded gun, safety off, prepared to defend myself and my family. If someone is already in my house, a phone is useless, unless I throw it at them.

Stocky's avatar

There are a million different reasons to break into my house? I can think of 2. What other reason would someone do that other than to steal from me or to harm me. Have you had someone break in and make you a sandwich? Do they break in do the dishes in your neighborhood?. Speaking of your neighborhood I imagine it is a very nice one if your not worried about what the guy that just broke into your house is going to do. And are fine with making a phone call and watching the end of a movie while a strange man invades your house. To answer your question I would do both I will call the police and draw my weapon on him. If the cops are there to arrest someone or remove a body from my house depends on what the intruder does with the information that he has a loaded gun pointed at him.

sndfreQ's avatar

[Fluther Moderator]: While the spirit of this discussion is right, posting of new questions should be re-directed to the Fluther site as a new question.

remember that your answers are intended to serve the asker of the original question
Thanks

XCNuse's avatar

Okay in some cases this may be true, but if the robber is unarmed (or gun is hidden anyway, even if it is a weapon loaded or unloaded), are you willing to shoot him before you call the police?

I guess i’m not really getting anywhere with this lol

Speaking of police, has anyone heard the story of the guy that pulled the fake water gun on a policeman recently and got shot?
Idiots in this world…

Stocky's avatar

I guess im different than some people in the way that I will physically defend myself by any means necessary. Whether that is with a gun or a good old fashioned ass kicking. If someone breaks in my house, I feel i am endangered. And will depending on the situation respond accordingly. If somebody wants to count on someone else to save them from harm that is their prerogative. I understand what you are saying but how do you know that he is or is not armed? No I would not shoot somebody if i was not in danger. If i am then yes 100%. I guess we can agree to disagree

Knotmyday's avatar

sweet shirt, @snd

breedmitch's avatar

@Stocky: Well we are two very different people. If the guy comes into my house to steal my tv, he can have it. I’ll call the police after. If a guy comes into my house to harm me (I live alone so your argument about hurting my kids etc. is moot) I’ll defend myself physically as much as I’m able (we all have a survival instinct) but I would never shoot the guy. If I get hurt or killed, well, I guess I “drew the short straw” this time around.
In short, I’m a pacifist.

@sndfreQ: Sorry for the threadjack.

btko's avatar

I think everyone agrees that we will all defend ourselves in our own homes (with a gun or otherwise). It sounded at the start that a few of you didn’t like police in general, but just stopping a home invasion.

GreatEscape's avatar

Yes I think it’s ok for a community to call a cop killer a hero depending on the cop. Not all cops are saints just like not all drug dealers are low life thugs (think Tommy Chong). I personally don’t let any job title dictate the person. Example, Think about all the cathloic priests that molest kids – do you put them all in the same basket?

margeryred's avatar

Nevermind…

95% of the responders didn’t even respond to the question…

I think I’m done with the ultra LIBERAL Fluther community.

@Cheeb are you a member of that web site? Geez a guy died. A damn good COP and YES I knew him! Does that make a difference?

That ANY murder would be condoned or gone undefended…or a murderer referred to as a hero is just sickening to me.

I guess I had faith that the public at large would protest the rationale behind that web site, but alas I see more support than anything.

I do believe POLICE OFFICERS are heroes. If they only received calls for service to 911 for actual emergencies, instead of who ate the last bowl of cereal then the system would work a lot better. But unfortunately, statistics, which can be swayed any which way, aren’t going to be very solid in any argument such as this.

I too have had awful experiences with police, especially WHEN I WAS BREAKING THE LAW.

They can’t all be the kinder/gentler police; Are criminals sweet and polite when they are sticking a gun in your face? I understand that in their profession, which is very different than elected politicians, are required to do things and see things that no human being should ever be exposed to on a “continual” basis. Thanks fr responding, but no thanks for making me realize that a COP, our homeland military, keepin us from total chaos and harm, can get slaughtered and people simply don’t care!

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.

This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther