Do you think it is always a bad decision to mix religion and politics?

Absolutely. Always. lol. I’ll let Seek elaborate as to why. God, I hope she’s up on coffee today.

I don’t have a problem with religious organizations trying to influence politics with “get out the vote” drives that support their beliefs.

If elected to office, I expect the elected official uphold the office first.
However, in a democracy, you get who the majority elects.

Yes. Even Jesus said so.

Religion and belief or non belief and spirituality are very personal things. No one has the right to dictate politically anything about it.

The first amendment right is not “I get the right to my belief” but rather “I will protect your right to your belief.”

For the most part ,YES!!
Does that mean religious people shouldn’t be politicians? NO they can make very fine politicians.

What do you think when two extremist thugs team up together to rule the world?

@zenvelo Yes. Even Jesus said so.

”Render unto Caesar…”

The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. IMHO, politicians may not legislate religion, but may (and should) act according to any religious principles that guide their life. If that fails to be popular, they will be voted out of office.

Well, Gandhi shoulda fired his stylist straight out the gate.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Whatever value religion may have is entirely in the private domain. At its best, as a personal guide, it can help people be less dickish. To hold yourself to the standards of your religion is one thing, but to turn them into public policy is a terrible idea.

It can be hard to disentangle common ethical intuition from religiously influenced morality. Religious moral codes usually have some basis in our native human sense of what’s decent behavior and what isn’t, but they then filter that through their belief system and it can acquire some pretty peculiar amendments. To the believer, these amendments become indistinguishable from common ethical judgment and look like something that might make good law. That’s why there needs to be a secular firewall in place to keep such religiously-motivated appendages out of public policy.

ALWAYS!

OF course!

Religion is where politics all started and many countries are still influenced greatly by Religious beliefs and Philosophies. Just look at how much attention the Evangelicals are getting in this Presidential race so it is near impossible to talk policies without Pro Choice/Pro Life creeping into the discussion and where the fist fights will usually break out.

@Cruiser Are you claiming that politics doesn’t predate organised religion?

@NerdyKeith Yes. There are signs of Idol worship from the Neanderthal period that further developed in more sophisticated worship of the Gods of the Earth, Sky, Wind and Water and it wasn’t until the Neolithic period when organized religion began to take shape.

Politics on the other hand was born out of warfare of communities having turf wars. The earliest known Monarchy was 2100 BC. So I would say religion predates politics by 6,000 years give or take a few thousand years.

My Christian faith has always informed my politics. That’s why my vote goes to the candidate that most advocates for the marginalized and the voiceless. The most vulnerable among us.

@Cruiser Idol worship is not organised religion. The Neanderthals may have inspired organised religion, but I’m not seeing why and how exactly they are responsible for it.

Which monarchy are you referring to? I’ve done a bit of research on this myself, most sources seem to be pointing towards Ancient Greece as the oldest form of democracy (or to be more precise the Athenian democracy)

@NerdyKeith The Mesopotamians as early as 3100 BC and a bit more organized a thousand years later.

@Cruiser I think you may have a point about the Mesopotamians. However I still don’t agree that politics guided by religious reasoning is efficient or indeed helpful to the running of a government.

My own country is testament to this. It has taken us years to change the law so the LGBT was not being discriminated. We still have a blasphemy law (not that enforceable mind you, but thats hardly the point) and we still don’t have abortion legalised either.

If people want to have their morality based on religion; thats fine. But in my opinion, those beliefs don’t belong in the running of secular nations. When it comes to the bigger picture, mixing politics with religion just doesn’t work. Sufficient equality is required for a stable society. Especially societies with so much diversity and multiculturalism.

In my opinion a secular system is the best political system human kind has come up with. Separation of state and church, is literally the only way to make peace with citizens of varied belief systems and no belief systems.

@NerdyKeith Not in today’s societies especially when their is such a mixture and why we see the Bible belt in the south here in the US loosing it’s death grip on religious issues like pro life.

In the way back days they all feared the wrath of the same god and why high priests were judge and jury over most who broke the sacred laws of their religion which at the time was their entire criminal justice system as well. The High Priests were essentially an early version of the Senators and Publicans yet to come.

@Cruiser Sorry I completely disagree with you on that there. I actually support the pro choice argument and I support women having the choice to have an abortion if they feel it is the choice they need to make. I also don’t agree that it is a religious issue whatsoever. It is an issue of choice and women’s rights. Now if the religious want to disagree with this being the moral choice or whatever. Let them disagree and let them choose to never have an abortion. Nobody is forcing anyone to take the option of abortion. Thats the entire point of one declaring themselves as pro choice; they key word being choice.

So people all don’t worship the same god and fear it? Good, because they don’t have to. I actually view the entire concept of “fearing” a God as a bad thing. I don’t see it as a positive and I am happy that more and more people don’t have this mentality. Or at the very least that people are not afraid to question these authorities and beliefs.

I’m not sure what time period you are talking about. But I do know that the United States government was founded on secular principles. A large variety of your founding fathers where deists who supported separation of state and church.

The first amendment of the US constitution states:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

I think points arguing about what occurred before the formation of the American republic are not really relevant. They were ok for the time period that they existed in, but they simply don’t work for a modern and diverse society. There was too much focus on one religion in particular (Christianity). And I think its a safe bet to make that if one was to propose a theocracy in the United States based on a non-Christian religion you and many others would be opposed to it.

Oh, criminy. I cannot do this on a phone. Following for now; I’ll be back.

@NerdyKeith I am sorry but I feel I have to pull the rip cord on this discussion as you have all of a sudden made a detour and turned this conversation into all about your personal views and not the first time I have seen this occur. ”I actually support the pro choice argument and I support women having the choice to have an abortion if they feel it is the choice they need to make. I also don’t agree that it is a religious issue whatsoever.”

”I’m not sure what time period you are talking about.” Read your own thread and the answers people take their time to write to your question and you wont have to ask questions like this. (my answer above) “The Mesopotamians as early as 3100 BC” Back before coat hangers were invented.

There is one thing we can agree upon…”The first amendment of the US constitution states:“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”” so why would you or anyone get in the way of religious folks who believe the words of their God who commands that all life is precious including that which is gestating in the womb?. For the record I am pro choice but I would never be so arrogant to deny anyone their God given choice to be pro choice.

And in closing…if you think ”I think points arguing about what occurred before the formation of the American republic are not really relevant. They were ok for the time period that they existed in, but they simply don’t work for a modern and diverse society.” please do state this in your question so I and others can tailor their answers to address the “time period” you are referring to…could have been a much more pleasant exchange here if you did so.

@Cruiser

Firstly this was posted in the social section, so of course I am going to input my opinion. Sort of the whole point.

Secondly you said:
“the Bible belt in the south here in the US loosing it’s death grip on religious issues like pro life.”

And that is what I was responding to. It was not clear at all from that that you are pro choice.

@NerdyKeith Once again we ran around in circles because you were not clear in the intent of your question if you cherry pick comments from the Jellies that respond and twist their responses to address a distinct subject matter. If you want to discuss abortion then just ask that question. Religion, Politics and abortion are vast subject matters that beg definition of what it is you want commentators to elucidate their views and opinions on.

Just because your question is in Social is no excuse to be sloppy in asking your questions and then having license to change the OP based on the answers you receive that don’t fit your narrative.

Now now. Don’t pick on NK. He’s a virtual fountain of intriguing questions and I’m personally curious as to how long he can maintain the pace of production.

@Cruiser
I simply don’t accept that I was being sloppy at all.

The topic in question was about if politics and religion mix. While it is my view that abortion shouldn’t be a religious issue, I acknowledge that a lot of its opposition are based on religious reasons. I was not directly discussing abortion as an overall subject at this point. But merly referencing it in context of the relive the topic. Then of course you addressed it yourself, so I responded based on what I understood your stance to be.

The impression I was getting from you, was that it almost seemed as if you were complaining that religious are being treated unfairly due to secularism.

If that was indeed not the message you were attempting to convey, I apologise for the misunderstanding.

This is really all I care to say on this matter.

@stanleybmanly,
Thank you for your support. But it’s ok, I have no problem with criticism. I’ll still continue to post more content. I intend to remain on Fluther as my permanent Q&A site of choice.

All fine and good @NerdyKeith…you now admit your view is based on that abortion should not be a religious issue and I say that is a fantastic position and that you could and should ask that as a specific question.

Religion and politics is one specific thing as you asked and abortion/politics/religion is a whole other brier patch of many other questions and IMO worthy of asking in questions directly related to that subject matter.

Maybe I was not clear enough in that my answers were based in the context of life way before Christ and I can see the validity in your comments in today’s modern world but that puts us many millennials apart in the context of our comments. .

Anybody want a Snickers bar?

@Espiritus_Corvus Thanks for the offer my friend. But I’m I don’t have much of a taste for peanuts. Now a Mars bar on the other hand, would be nice ;)

@Cruiser Ok I’ll take this on board. I do plan to discuss abortion more directly in future questions (from different contexts)

Abortion has been asked to death here, you will get those that are for it under any conditions.
You will get those that are against it under any condition, (these are usually the religious right)
Then you will find those that agree with it under certain conditions, example, Rape, incest, the mothers health or life in jeopardy if taken to full term, (I fall in with this class) but not to be used for birth control.