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Magnus's avatar

Would you have given china the olympics if you ruled the world?

Asked by Magnus (2868points) August 2nd, 2008

I would never have.

And everyone who is saying that sports shouldn’t be about politics are so immensely wrong.
First of all, it’s not about politics, it’s about ethics and doing the right thing.
Secondly, the olympics are all about politics, so you’re double wrong.

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23 Answers

lefteh's avatar

To me, the Olympics are a display of human cooperation and good-natured competition. A testament to the strongest and best traits of humanity. Why would we hold such an event in a nation that clearly has very little regard for human rights and the goodwill of the species.

marinelife's avatar

Are you sure that you are asking a question here, Magnus?

If I was the supreme ruler, you can bet I would hold the Olympics. The ancient Olympics were suspended for war. “Consequently, the ekecheiria, or truce, was the most important rule. Originally initiated by three kings, Iphitos of Elis, Kleosthenes of Pisa, and Lykourgos of Sparta, for the period of one month, the Eleans extended the ekecheiria to three months. During the truce, participants from warring city-states could presumably pass through the territory of their enemy without jeopardy. To add to the positive atmosphere, no armies could enter Elis, and the death penalty was suspended.”

The entire point of the Olympics was to set aside the hostility and meet each other in another arena. In that sense, they are not like ordinary sports.

People worldwide watch them. They see people of other countries, other faiths, other ideologies all striving in sports. They see them as people. People with stories. I think the Olympics have great ability to promote understanding and eventually peace. I was very sorry that the U.S. boycotted the Olympics in 1980.

The way to change countries abrogating human rights is to engage with them, open them up, inculcate our ideas into their culture not isolate them and make them paranoid. We can see how poorly the latter strategy has worked with North Korea and Myanmar.

Let the games begin!

tinyfaery's avatar

In ancient Greece there was not such an economic boon for the host.

I was very upset about china hosting the olympics, but then a friend of mine made a very good point. We cannot hold the entire population of a country accountable for the actions if it’s government. That would be equivalent to holding every American accountable for Dubya. Perhaps exposure to the rest of the world might change the thinking of China’s citizens.

Anyhow, I’m not a big fan of sports, but I always watch some of the Olympics.

GreatEscape's avatar

I’m guessing this is over the whole Tibet thing. Well let me tell you that Tibet is doing much much better now then they were before China got involved. They put millions towards building the country’s infrastructure and economy and have shown nothing but good will in my opinion.

Now the US invading Iraq and tricking it’s people into thinking it was because of 9/11 now that’s a different story…

tinyfaery's avatar

@great The Tibetans obviously do not think so.

aaronou's avatar

I don’t know, I think hosting the Olympics might give some Chinese a bit more hope. Giving Beijing the Olympics does not have to be seen simply as a reward. As the Olympics celebrate unity and life, I suppose we could consider it as an opportunity to allow freedom and justice to spread in some form or fashion.

GreatEscape's avatar

Actually many Tibetans do. It’s the hippy left wing America that is so up in arms about it (you know the same ones that talk dirt on China but half of what they owned is made there)

Here’s a good analysis of what would happen if Tibet was actually “free”:

http://agtam.com/blog/what-if-tibet-was-free/

tinyfaery's avatar

@great Than why the riots? I’m pretty sure there were no Americans involved. And what’s so great about a government that limits your personal freedoms, and treats dissension as treason?

link

GreatEscape's avatar

Ha, you must be kidding me. You think the US doesn’t limit personal freedoms? warrant less wiretapping, torture camps, extreme war profiteering, crooked health care,

Tibet wants to be free but they are more corrupt then China in my opinion. China has substantially increased the standard of living in Tibet and if they pulled out their funding the country would be as ass backward as before they came.

It’s just like zimbabwe when they took away the power of the ruling party (which was a majority white) and gave it to the natives (majority black) and now their 10,000,000,000 bill can’t get you a loaf of bread when before they country was improving every year. You ask any Zimbabwen if they want the old white “invaders” back and I guarantee 99/100 will say yes. No this isn’t racist this is fact – in this instance the locals we’re not equip to responsibility sustain the infrastructure of their country and by pushing out the “ruling party” they ended up in financial ruin and I believe that would happen to Tibet as well…

marinelife's avatar

@tf Sounds like the Bush administration to me.

tinyfaery's avatar

I didn’t say America is great; I’m a huge critic of most American policies.

You cannot state a “fact” without some proof. You can state your opinion. And if a country is worse off for gaining back what’s theirs, than so be it. They have their autonomy to do with what they will. Nobody has the right to thrust their way of life down anyone’s throat, be it for the better or worse. Iraq isn’t doing so well with a forced democracy. These things have to develop, over time, inside of the already existing culture, or the process will be more difficult and less likely to succeed.

And, there is no need for the sarcasm or personal attacks.

GreatEscape's avatar

McCain and the Dalai:

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/dali.jpg

I’m not a fan of Bush but this has nothing to do with him. About helping a country’s people live a better life and I believe China is helping tibet do this. Sure it’s easy to say “Let the locals run their own country” but if they are in capable of doing this then someone needs to get involved. China may benefit in the long term but they are making a serious investment in Tibet and it’s people.

If you do a little research and see how bad things were before China got involved you’ll see what I mean. China has put an end legal slavery and has helped boost the emergence of a middle class that did not exist before.

So yes, I would not want China marching into the US but we are the symbol of freedom. Tibet on the other hand was waaaayyyy worse off with Serf’s and slavery, no running water (unless you were rich), very little electricity, a pitiful economy, etc…

Here’s a few video’s for you to watch – I’d post articles but you obviously don’t read them and your brainwashed on the Dali Lama’s propaganda train…

Learn the Truth of history for god sake!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

How did Dalai Lama Betrayed Central government:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yk5dZjkgAQY

Do you know who made up the So called “Free Tibet”?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XhG9-LdwG_k

Sociologist talks about the old Tibet
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DiLbAEQqrqY

Dalai’s naked Truth
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h8FMNtTw24o

GreatEscape's avatar

Again, read this article. It demonstrates in detail what would happen if Tibet was free from a economical stand point not emotional which is something most Americans have trouble doing…

http://agtam.com/blog/what-if-tibet-was-free/

tinyfaery's avatar

Oh, and you’re the one to decide? Not capable? Just because you don’t happen to agree? Hitler thought he was doing what was good for others as well. And now you are offending others’ religions and religious leaders?! I’m done here.

I’ll just lefteh deal with this.

GreatEscape's avatar

I’m not saying I am the one to decide but you should look at all the good that is being done. Many left wing hippies complain about China “invading tibet” but it’s done nothing but help the average tibeten. Are you tell me you support slavery? you support Serf’s and an exetreme poor and rich with little to no middle class?

Tibetans are exempt from government taxation, and the Beijing government provides 90% of the Tibetan regional government’s operating expenditures. Think about that – China is paying 90% of Tibet’s operating expenses and has brought roads, schools, running (drinkable) water, electricity, etc… Tibet was way worse off then Iraq was and instead of screwing everything up they have helped boost Tibet’s economy.

Don’t forget too that is China left Tibet today there may be hard feelings against the Han minority in Tibet (around 6% of the population), leading them many of them to return to China. This would be a disaster, because when a business-owning minority is exiled from a country, from the Jews in England to whites in Zimbabwe, the economy is consistently dragged down.

Here are some facts to back it up as you requested -

When the jews left England:

http://www.heretical.com/British/jews1290.html

When the whites left Zimbabwe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe#2008_campaign_of_violence_against_white_commercial_farmers_and_black_farmers_supporting_the_MDC

lefteh's avatar

Here we go!

“Many left wing hippies complain about China “invading tibet” but it’s done nothing but help the average tibeten.”
China has repeatedly crushed the civil rights of Tibetans (with an a).

“Are you tell me you support slavery? you support Serf’s and an exetreme poor and rich with little to no middle class?”
No, but we support a free country with the the right to do as they please in regards to setting up an economy and political system that works for them. I’m not a fan of powerful countries telling less powerful countries how to run their country.

“Tibetans are exempt from government taxation, and the Beijing government provides 90% of the Tibetan regional government’s operating expenditures.”
Congratulations, you can slightly alter sentences from wikipedia: “The Central government exempts Tibet from all taxation and provides 90% of Tibet’s government expenditures.” What you left out was what was written before and after that: “According to Chinese sources, Tibet’s GDP in 2001 was 13.9 billion yuan (USD1.8billion).[57] The Central government exempts Tibet from all taxation and provides 90% of Tibet’s government expenditures.[58][59][60][unreliable source?][61][unreliable source?] ” The Chinese government has also claimed that Wikipedia is a threat to society and should not be accessible, and that each adult is entitled to exactly one offspring. Not the best source I’ve ever come across.

“Tibet was way worse off then Iraq was and instead of screwing everything up they have helped boost Tibet’s economy.”
Take a look at this link. The “economic growth” comes from Beijing, not locally. When economic changes come from outside of the local area, polarization occurs. Didn’t you complain about “an extreme poor and rich with little to no middle class” earlier?

“Don’t forget too that is China left Tibet today there may be hard feelings against the Han minority in Tibet (around 6% of the population), leading them many of them to return to China. This would be a disaster, because when a business-owning minority is exiled from a country, from the Jews in England to whites in Zimbabwe, the economy is consistently dragged down.”
The Han immigrants are what is crushing the culture of Tibet. They are carted in my the government and enabled to be prosperous and successful so that they can spread their Chinese culture. This is one of the gravest injustices being committed in Tibet right now. The Chinese government is literally sending representatives to change the local culture of Tibet. The sooner the influence of the Han residents subsides, the better chance Tibet has to reclaim its identity.

WHEW, I feel better now.

tinyfaery's avatar

Thanks lefteh. I knew you’d do a better job that I.

marinelife's avatar

This is a bit of a threadjack, folks.

tinyfaery's avatar

Its on topic. I’ve seen worse without a comment about it. But anyway, I’m done.

lefteh's avatar

Meh, I don’t like the concept of a “threadjack.”
I think of it as evolving conversation. Besides, it’s entirely not a threadjack. China’s actions regarding Tibet are extremely relevant to whether or not it is a suitable venue for the Olympics.

GreatEscape's avatar

First let me point out that Tibet has been apart of China since 13th century (sorry I can’t do the cool direct link with words:

http://www.rangzen.org/history/views.htm

China has repeatedly crushed the civil rights of Tibetans (with an a).

It’s going to take me time to dig up more resources because every writer is afraid to right anything even resembling how China has helped Tibet but they have

No, but we support a free country with the the right to do as they please in regards to setting up an economy and political system that works for them. I’m not a fan of powerful countries telling less powerful countries how to run their country.

I totally support a country having the right to decide their own fate and way of life but some countries are ruled by evil dictators that relish in HUMAN injustices that should not be allowed. I will not support any government that openly allows slavery of it’s people . Honestly I think it is a miracle how the Dalia Lama has convinced the world he is such a saint – truth is if he ran the country the way he wanted we would all be criticizing him.

“Tibetans are exempt from government taxation, and the Beijing government provides 90% of the Tibetan regional government’s operating expenditures.”

I didn’t copy and paste from Wikipedia – I copy and slightly altered from Agtam’s site (I posted the link twice not going to spam it). I copy and pasted since no one clicks and reads the article so I have to take out key points and put in here or no one will read and that guy writes better then me and understands the situation better than any of the people here.

Take a look at this link. The “economic growth” comes from Beijing, not locally. When economic changes come from outside of the local area, polarization occurs. Didn’t you complain about “an extreme poor and rich with little to no middle class” earlier?

That link you gave goes to a site that is extremely anti chinese. It reminds me of reading the huffington post about something positive about republicans (I’m a libertarian btw not a republican…) I’m sorry but after reading a few articles I think the site is too bias for me to consider a creditable source.

The Han immigrants are what is crushing the culture of Tibet. They are carted in my the government and enabled to be prosperous and successful so that they can spread their Chinese culture. This is one of the gravest injustices being committed in Tibet right now. The Chinese government is literally sending representatives to change the local culture of Tibet. The sooner the influence of the Han residents subsides, the better chance Tibet has to reclaim its identity.

This is something that I don’t know much about but I will do some research. I hear what the left wing college kids say about this but honestly they often fail to see the greater good of somethings. They remind me of the super do gooder in movies that saves the one innocent child from being crushed by a boulder only to throw it and kill half of a city block. Sometimes government’s do have to think of the greater good of all it’s people which does sometimes mean hard times for some people in the short term.

The main point I wanted to get across was Tibet wasn’t that great of a country before. The whole country was run by a religious dictatorship and the people were not happy. I think you need a facebook to see this but here’s your “peaceful monks”:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=45210050640&oid=9356526887

marinelife's avatar

@Great Escape ” anchor text ” : url (but no spaces), If I do it exactly, it will make a link. In words, openquotesanchortextclosequotescolonurl.

lefteh's avatar

If you’re allowed to use the government of China as a source, I’m allowed to use asianews.it.

Anyway, I disagree with your “main point.” Just because some people such as yourself and the government of China have decided that Tibet wasn’t “that great of a country before” does NOT give other countries the right to squash its national identity. It is an inherently disgusting action on the part of the Chinese government.

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